New thread...Freedom of Speech

[rhinegirl]

I'd like to have unlimited freedom of speech but I refuse to honor the traditions of being polite rather than truthful.

There are people on this forum who enjoy being victims and martyrs. What they get out of this, they may not even know.

Jessica

quote:Originally posted by Dark Knight

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10539&whichpage=6

Well, just start a new thread...like you guys said, youd on't ahve to post here if you want.

quote:McArthur, Dk, SpectralDragon, and yes...Kiauma. Please take your bickering somewhere else.  

McArthur and DK, Post your opinion, then be done with it.. Do not continue to dissect every post you happen upon, (oh geez, I can see you using this as a quote now  ) Or I will become delete happy..  This is not the kind of forum we had in mind. We believe in freedom of speech, but once that speech is done, that is it. If the topic continues to upset you after your first rant, then just do not continue to partake in that paticular thread. Thanks  

SpectralDragon..all I can say is, you need to find your own thoughts and opinions. Following behind someone and then agreeing all the time, will grow tiresome, as do your oneliners.

You know I would say something about freedom of speech goes hand in hand with responsiblity and that your freedom ends where someone elses begins...but...

I'm amazed at how fast people get tired. People under attack get tired of their situations and still have to go on with life...sometimes days, sometimes months, sometimes weeks or years. You get tired after a few threads, what if you had to do this for months or years?

quote:DK seems to have a massive following of yesmen and anyone who disagrees with her gets shouted down and insulted.

When did I get this powerful?![?] I don't talk to MacArthur and Spectral has been teacher to me on some stuff I've forgotten since the attacks started.

Spectral apologized to you guys...he didn't want to get involved in the arguments and kept his posts short. You couldn't even do the same? I can't even say what I am really thinking right now.




Spectral

[James S]

DK,

I've moved this topic into the Astral Chat section. It doesn't really fit the bill for a PSD topic.

"You know I would say something about freedom of speech goes hand in hand with responsiblity and that your freedom ends where someone elses begins...but..."

I'm interested in hearing where you wanted to go with this. Could you expand on it a bit please?


Rhinegirl,
Being truthful rather than polite is fine. You just need to be mindful of where the line is between being honest and being offensive. Unfortunately there's nothing clear cut here - you need to assess each situation seperately. Some people will accept an 'offensive' comment as being plain honest, whereas others will take an honest comment as being offensive, no matter how nicely you put it.


Regards,
James.

[Dark Knight]

quote:There are people on this forum who enjoy being victims and martyrs. What they get out of this, they may not even know.

I am neither.

Sorry James, it'd just be more things you don't want to hear about so there's no point.

[rhinegirl]

quote:Originally posted by Dark Knight

quote:There are people on this forum who enjoy being victims and martyrs. What they get out of this, they may not even know.

I am neither.

Sorry James, it'd just be more things you don't want to hear about so there's no point.

hmmm...typical passive aggressive behavior.

Jessica

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by rhinegirl

hmmm...typical passive aggressive behavior.

Typical of what? just curious.

[kakkarot]

if my freedom ends (where someone else's begins), am i really free? []

i heard a joke way back in high school that was similar and went "the right of your fist ends where the right of my nose begins" but of course rights and freedoms are different [|)].

~kakkarot

[rhinegirl]

quote:Originally posted by McArthur

quote:Originally posted by rhinegirl

hmmm...typical passive aggressive behavior.

Typical of what? just curious.

Typical of passive aggressive people like DK.

Jessica

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by rhinegirl

Typical of passive aggressive people like DK.

And what does that imply? Are you being some kind of armchair psychoanylist now?

Not that i am agreeing that DK is a "passive agressive" person but what does this mean exactly? Does it mean she is a bad person? I'm just curious what you mean by your comment and why you said it.

It was basically just an insult wasn't it because you had nothing more positive to offer?

[Dark Knight]

Kakkarot,

Real freedom is respecting people's rights to be who they are and having that in return for yourself. If that isn't respected, there is no freedom. Cutting into someone elses freedom cuts into your own eventaully.

[shedt]

quote:Originally posted by Dark Knight

Kakkarot,

Real freedom is respecting people's rights to be who they are and having that in return for yourself. If that isn't respected, there is no freedom. Cutting into someone elses freedom cuts into your own eventaully.

this is my quote of the day !

the most sense I've read on here today at least.

[rhinegirl]

quote:Originally posted by McArthur
I am agreeing that DK is a "passive agressive" person but what does this mean exactly? Does it mean she is a bad person? I'm just curious what you mean by your comment and why you said it.

It was basically just an insult wasn't it because you had nothing more positive to offer?

I never said she was bad. I simply made the observation that she is passive aggressive. if you are unsure of teh term then I suggest you open an encyclopedia or dictionary.

Jessica

[kiauma]

I see that happening a lot.  Someone makes a characterization of someone else, and someone reads into it more than was intended.


This happens a lot.

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by rhinegirl

I never said she was bad. I simply made the observation that she is passive aggressive.

Well, coupled with some of the posts i have seen you make to DK (such as the one where you call her a "PSYCHIC VAMYRE" in big bold red letters) and your further thread titled "DK's petition" it seems to me you are somehow obsessed with her for some reason. From these observations and a few others it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to realise that all you were doing was being insulting.

[rhinegirl]

quote:Originally posted by McArthur
posts i have seen you make to DK (such as the one where you call her a "PSYCHIC VAMYRE" in big bold red letters) and your further thread titled "DK's petition"

I said that I had once thought she was a PSYCHIC VAMPYRE

Jessica

[McArthur]

Well, just in the interest of accuracy, what you actually said was;

quote:On a more acidic note. Perhaps DK has been taken over by the negs that were attacking her.

Hence why when I came here I thought she was an evil psychic vampyre.

Anyway, i think its time for me to kick back and relax and enjoy my beer. [8D] Do you like beer rhinegirl?

[rhinegirl]

quote:Originally posted by McArthur
Anyway, i think its time for me to kick back and relax and enjoy my beer. [8D] Do you like beer rhinegirl?

No, I usually drink coffee and sports drinks. I like Sobe no fear. It's pretty inexpensive.

Jessica.

[kakkarot]

well i disagree dk. i have freedom to say whatever i want whenever i want, even if it offends someone. just like someone else has the right to say whatever they want even if it offends me ^_^ . cause truth be told, if i'm offended by something someone else says, it's because the offense is at my end so if i don't want to be offended i should do something about my attitude towards what they are saying.

i don't like people who think along the lines of "others should change so i can be comfortable" ^_^ .

~kakkarot

[atalanta]

I don't know what the arguments are about as I am new here.  I just wanted to reply to the idea of offending and truth telling.

I think that people seem to confuse the truth with being offensive.  Every day we relate with others on various levels.  In some cases, something I need may not be met and then I have to tell the truth.  It may hurt or even offend the other person but truth necessitates it.

However, some people cause offense not because they wish to speak the truth, but they do so out of spite, hatred, internalised fears, rebellion, etc.  They may even use the truth but they don't use it in a decent and honest way but as a weapon.

For example, a teenager has a secret that they are suicidal because they are gay.  They finally pluck up the courage to tell their parents.  That is telling the truth and it may hurt and offend their parents.  The parents take it hard, they are in shock.  Words are exchanged.  The teenager turns around to his mother at one stage and tells her that she is the reason why he thinks of suiciding.  This may have some small basis in truth but it is not said out of the need to be honest.  It is simply uttered to hurt, to offend.

Of course, it is up to me to deal with my feelings of being offended.  However, you should also remember what it means about the person who offended.  If you say something which will no doubt hurt the other person and you do so not out of a wish for bring the truth out, it makes you someone who is cruel, insensitive, destructive, to put it plainly, a jerk, etc.  Beyond the issue of hurting someone else, we have to ask ourselves every time we open our mouths, 'is bullsh*t going to come out of my mouth'.  Is this the type of person I wish to be?  And how will life repay me?

[Anonymous]

Okay, I wasn't involved in the argument, but I would like to put forth my thoughts on having read this post, and hopefully present a solution. Maybe that's not very logical of me. Oh well, what fun would the world be if it didn't have contradiction to logic? I for one think it would be quite boring.

Nobody is free until we are all free. Read my quotes. we are a team. If one screws up, we all suffer. So we learn together, even in our blindness, because there are still those who can see, even if we cannot see that they have their eyes open (I think they call that faith, or maybe trust, but I could be wrong). That's how it is in my kung fu classes. We do push-ups, and if even one person so much as brushes the floor with any part of their bodies other than their hands and their feet, we start over, and so we must encourage the tired so that we can move on to the next exercise and overcome more challenges. So it is on this website. Until we stop making the same mistakes, we will simply continue to go around in an endless cycle. That's not freedom. My theory is that humanity will continue to chase its own tail until we learn to act as one. What happens when a logic gate blows in your computer? The whole damn thing stops working. All because one "insignificant" logic gate fries. But we all know that logic gate isn't really insignificant, because it is needed to make the whole computer work.

In short, yes, we all have free speech, but until we learn how to use it, we're going to be stuck in this rut. I admit to having misused it at times myself, and I won't deny any truthful accusations. But I've learned from myself and from others. Nobody's perfect, but perhaps we could try to be somewhat accommodating of others' imperfections. Would this solve the problem?

[Sam]

I've already said it but I'll rephrase it, chucking out the general chaff that accompanies most of my posts.

Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, agreed?  Everyone learns from experience yes?  We're all good at different things in our own way?  Of course.  So how I see it is the best we can do is acknowledge other peoples strengths and use our own when they are needed.  Constantly focussing on someones weakness is a bad thing because it makes some people insecure, others defensive, and generally doesn't help much at any given moment.  However it's fine to point out a percieved weakness to a person, after which its up to them to make any changes they feel are necessary.  Getting nasty and personal never solves anything.

[kiauma]

EnderWiggin,

I was checkin out yer post, and I agree in part, and disagree in part.  To compare the forum to your Kung Fu class is to hang a single agenda onto it and everyone here, like your class, where everyone is there for a single end - to train in Kung Fu.  

Now, I agree everyone is here for an ultimate single end, which is to reunite with the divinity from which we came - but at the same time I think everyone here has there own thing going, ya know?  I think I would compare it to dancing - if getting to the end of the dance was what counted, then the fastest dance would be the best!

With that in mind, I have to consider that the journey itself is as important as the end goal.  That is the implicit principal in real inclusiveness, that everyone's answers ARE right - for them.  Everyone is doing just exactly what they should be doing, it is impossible for the universe to 'be' anything but what it is.

As such, you are completely free to say what you like, as am I, as is DK.   []

Granting that, we grant an already free reality.

[Anonymous]

Sorry if my example confused you. I was trying to find an instance to make my point. Perhaps I could have been clearer or used something more people could relate to.

[kiauma]

I think I got your point - if not please clarify.  

I thought I was simply adding a little dimension, though I ultimately do agree with you.  []

As to being confused, well, it's sorta natural (not sure though [] ).

[kiauma]

One thing we are never free of , but can make work for us, is consequence.

Woe to those who disregard consequence.  []

[Dark Knight]

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10539&whichpage=6

Well, just start a new thread...like you guys said, youd on't ahve to post here if you want.

quote:McArthur, Dk, SpectralDragon, and yes...Kiauma. Please take your bickering somewhere else.  

McArthur and DK, Post your opinion, then be done with it.. Do not continue to dissect every post you happen upon, (oh geez, I can see you using this as a quote now  ) Or I will become delete happy..  This is not the kind of forum we had in mind. We believe in freedom of speech, but once that speech is done, that is it. If the topic continues to upset you after your first rant, then just do not continue to partake in that paticular thread. Thanks  

SpectralDragon..all I can say is, you need to find your own thoughts and opinions. Following behind someone and then agreeing all the time, will grow tiresome, as do your oneliners.

You know I would say something about freedom of speech goes hand in hand with responsiblity and that your freedom ends where someone elses begins...but...

I'm amazed at how fast people get tired. People under attack get tired of their situations and still have to go on with life...sometimes days, sometimes months, sometimes weeks or years. You get tired after a few threads, what if you had to do this for months or years?

quote:DK seems to have a massive following of yesmen and anyone who disagrees with her gets shouted down and insulted.

When did I get this powerful?![?] I don't talk to MacArthur and Spectral has been teacher to me on some stuff I've forgotten since the attacks started.

Spectral apologized to you guys...he didn't want to get involved in the arguments and kept his posts short. You couldn't even do the same? I can't even say what I am really thinking right now.




Spectral