Scary NDEs

[AndrewTheSinger]

It was not a radiant experience; it was an utterly terrifying experience of the void. I had never heard of anything like it. I didn't know anybody else in the world had ever had such an experience. That left me with a sense that I was walking around with secret knowledge too terrible to tell anybody.

...

Most of the people who have written about unpleasant experiences talk about them as happening to people who were sin-ridden, guilt-ridden, hostile, God–denying, love denying, suicidal -– all of that. None of which applied to me. I was far from perfect, but for heaven's sake, I had been saved twice at Billy Graham crusades! I had been born again.....and again! There was nothing in my background that could in any way help me explain this experience. I didn't even know where to look for an explanation.

To read more: http://nhneneardeath.ning.com/forum/topics/nancy-evans-bush-on-1

[Volgerle]

Just have browsed the text, but on first glance, I do not understand the authors criticism of IANDS. They clearly do NOT suppress negative experiences. They even have an own page for it.

http://iands.org/about-ndes/distressing-ndes.html

Anyway, why isn't it right to state that the negative experiences only form a very small percentage of all NDEs or NDE-related experience patterns?

[blis]

What an odd experience.

[astraladdict]

Interesting..

~astraladdict

[Summerlander]

Interesting experience.  I'd like to share something with all of you.  How you take this is entirely up to you...

DMT is often thought to be linked to NDEs, OOBEs, dreaming, mystical states and even being awake and experiencing reality.  In DMT, The Spirit Molecule by Rick Strassman, it is clear that the subjects who have a strict religious upbringing and wholeheartedly believe in God are the ones who have trouble with the intense DMT trips.  Some acquire altered states of consciousness where the nothingness becomes apparent, concepts may be stripped away, and when they come to (trip wears off) they were shocked at certain profound truths and felt betrayed by reality. 

Those with Buddhist tendencies had no problem with this as they were more open to change.  Letting go of the self and its concepts was easier for them and often the altered state was gratifying.  It has all to do with the mind and how an individual interprets/perceives things.  If you think a light you are seeing in a void is malicious and you find it threatening, then it will be.  You fear it because you are scared that it will put an end to your sense of self.

On the other hand, you will get a sense of freedom and happiness if you do not worry about what might become of you.  This way, you are truly invincible and rid of all fears.

[AndrewTheSinger]

Anyway, why isn't it right to state that the negative experiences only form a very small percentage of all NDEs or NDE-related experience patterns?

It seems that the shame and guilt associated with these expereinces may keep people from reporting them, so the statistics could be giving us a wrong idea.

[AndrewTheSinger]

Summerlander, I saw that documentary too. They usually have a form of 'initiation', so that the person ingesting the substance may know what to expect, and that removes a lot of the fear and anxiety.

Anyways, some NDEs reported by buddhists can be quite scary as well. Check out this link, it is a compilation of eleven near death experiences from Thailand. It can be a universal phenomena, independent of beliefs.

http://altered-states.net/barry/newsletter224/ndethai1.htm

[Summerlander]

Sure, the phenomenon can be universal.  In fact, two people can experience the same thing...but the interpretations may be different.  Also, let's not forget the fact that just because a person is a Buddhist, doesn't mean they are 100% following the precepts imposed by the historical Buddha.

Btw, I didn't see the documentary, I read the book, and participants were still allowed to have their beliefs and interpretations of what they experienced.  The initiation you speak of is intended to remove fears, but whether that takes effect depends on the individuals, does it not?  In the book, Strassman also conducts a psilocybin study, in which a woman who thought she was ready went absolutely paranoid (temporarily insane).  Like I said, what is expected isn't always the case - otherwise they wouldn't test such substances.

You always decide whether an experience is frightening or pleasant.  It is all predetermined in the mind.  You can tell yourself things.  You may think you won't be scared of something until you actually experience it and discover that there was a nagging doubt in your unconscious.  The human mind is more complex than what people imagine.  You may, for instance, have had the belief that demons exist in the past and overtime had a paradigm shift that made you arrive at the conclusion that they are, in fact, non-existent.  Now imagine that, despite having this in mind, you are about to take DMT for Strassman.  Imagine that when you take it, your amygdala is stimulated (fear or fight-or-flight sensations occur) and, in a state of confusion, you experience something that suddenly makes you think: "what if what I believed previously was true?  What if demons are real?" - this could undoubtedly trigger a chain reaction that would reinforce such belief.

Anyway, the NDE is an OOBE triggered from a traumatic and often life-threatening experience.  Your beliefs and expectations will certainly play a role.  If one believes that souls are judged in an afterlife and that there is a hell where they may go or believe they don't deserve to go but are afraid of it, then that is what they are likely to experience.