SP and Trance?

[Klowsy]

Im sorry if it's posted in the wrong section, didn't really know where to post this.

I've been trying to get into a trance for a while now, but I really have troubles with getting in one. I have some questions that I have tryed to get an answer to for a long time. Im confused about trance, and sp. I've been in SP a couple of times, and I totally hate that, its just freaking me out, it has almost always been a bad or scary experience where I can't control whats happening.  Anyway, Im trying to get into a trance, because I've heard it is a nice experience and relaxing too. The fear of entering SP is holding me back. So my questions are:

1.  Is trance and SP the same thing? From what I've red trance should be relaxing and pleasant, and when I had what was probably SP, it wasn't any good experience at all, I couldn't control anything happening.

2. If trance and SP isn't the same thing, how can you enter a trance instead of sleep paralysis? How can you know that it is a trance you are entering and not SP?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance 

[CFTraveler]

Im sorry if it's posted in the wrong section, didn't really know where to post this.

I've been trying to get into a trance for a while now, but I really have troubles with getting in one. I have some questions that I have tryed to get an answer to for a long time. Im confused about trance, and sp. I've been in SP a couple of times, and I totally hate that, its just freaking me out, it has almost always been a bad or scary experience where I can't control whats happening.  Anyway, Im trying to get into a trance, because I've heard it is a nice experience and relaxing too. The fear of entering SP is holding me back. So my questions are:

1.  Is trance and SP the same thing? From what I've red trance should be relaxing and pleasant, and when I had what was probably SP, it wasn't any good experience at all, I couldn't control anything happening.

In my opinion it's not the same thing, even though it's referred as the same thing, because in trance you have no body awareness (and can be paralyzed), so it sounds like the same thing, but I don't think it's the same.
Let me tell you how I see it:
In sleep paralysis, you wake to find yourself paralyzed.  You are not lucid, and usually launch into a panic.  You may have 'dweller/hag' manifestations, which produce a fear-feedback that takes you deeper and deeper into panic.  This is my description of SP.
In trance, you have worked yourself into a state in which your mind is wide awake and deeply focused into your goal- which can be to enter a state of paralysis.  It's a different brain or mind state, and you're not always paralyzed.  You are in control of your mind, even though you might not think so.  You see and hear manifestations of your transitional state, but they usually are not scary if you know what to expect.
If you have done your homework, you can get to the state in which you have transitional sensations (like vibrations, hypnagogic hallucinations) and can move into a disembodied state via loosening and/or exit techniques.
I know they sound the same, but there is a very different component- sleep paralysis usually happens after you have gone to sleep and lost consciousness, and even though you wake up before your body does, you are not lucid, and are reactive.
In trance you are going from a conscious state to a 'body asleep' state, but you don't lose consciousness, so you are sharp and have 'awake mentality'.  The experience is different.

2. If trance and SP isn't the same thing, how can you enter a trance instead of sleep paralysis? How can you know that it is a trance you are entering and not SP?

The trick is not to focus on your body, but on your awareness, study how it changes as you transition, know it, learn it.
A

ny help would be appreciated, thanks in advance 

You're welcome, and, if you have SP a lot something to remember is to wiggle your big toe.  This works for me.

[Klowsy]

Im still a bit confused by it. If you want to induce the SP state, its nearly the same or the same technique as you induce a trance state, this bothers me, as I really can't tell which one I'll enter. Is there no way to avoid entering SP, and going into a trance instead?

Thanks for the answer btw, cleared some things up

[CFTraveler]

If you want to induce the SP state, its nearly the same or the same technique as you induce a trance state

I'ts all in what you call it, I suppose.
If I wanted to induce an SP state I'd go to sleep first, and then wake up paralyzed.  If I want to induce trance I meditate (or whatever) until I'm in the Mind Awake Body Asleep state.

[Klowsy]

So if you try to meditate your way to body asleep, mind awake state, you should rather be in a trance and be in control than in SP?

[astrowytch]

sleep paralysis and trance are not the same thing. Shamans, voodoo practicioners etc.all use the trance state but of course they are moving and dancing so they are not paralysed. African tribe members use dance to bring on the trance state. Sleep paralysis occurs when your mind wakes up from sleep but your body hasn't and if your'e not used to that it is scary. Body paralysis occurs during meditation because the body has gone to sleep and the mind is still awake. In this process of paralysis we are aware, awake and in control...not so scary as when you wake up paralyised. The first time it happened to me I excrement myself, I didnt know what was happening to me. Now I meditate to bring on obe and I'm not scared of the paraysis as it is necessary for obe. Hope that helps. x

[Klowsy]

When you say that we are awake and in control while in trance, you mean that you can control any hallucinations for example? So u dnt see scary things? thx for all help so far ppl!

[astrowytch]

Hello again. Think about the type of people who use trance. ie mediums, shamans etc. trance is just another level of consiousness. Have you seen some scary things when you are in trance then? whatever you have seen has come from you. Sometimes I see faces. Some good some really scary! basically you are awake of sorts and in control. I often wonder if the faces I see are past lives of mine. Who knows? The thing is if you meditate for long enough ( time scale different for everyone) you will experience body paralysis no doubt. If you can't handle that yet then don't meditate for too long. Gradually you will get used to the feeling. I was scared at first cos the sensations were all new to me. Maybe you are seeing scary things because you are scared at the onset of med. I don't know. But to avoid paralysis don't med for too long. x

[Klowsy]

Well my goal is to get in a trance, so I want to enter one, as I've heard it is a very good and relaxing experience. The only thing I wanna avoid, is to hallucinate scary things.
I've got some more questions for you that are experienced with trance :

While in one, can you to some degree control what you see/hear etc?  Example: If you wud try to visualize a green cat, wud u see it? Or is it random hallucinations that you don't control.
And if you get a trance and body paralysis, what do you need to do to break the paralysis and get out of trance, I don't wanna get stuck in one.

Thanks again for answers, this forum is great 

[CFTraveler]

When you say that we are awake and in control while in trance, you mean that you can control any hallucinations for example? So u dnt see scary things? thx for all help so far ppl!

Hi Klowsy.
In control means that you can control your mind.  Some people can indeed control the contents of the hallucinations, but that depends on their level of fear starting out.  If you are starting out with fear, it will be harder for you not to manifest scary entities.  The best bet here is to deal with those fears, and if possible, experience them and get over them. 
I have done both (experienced my fear objectified and now can say I am afraid of very little- but I wouldn't be here if I hadn't gone through some harrowing experiences.
But yes, control of the visions is possible, but not the rule.  To control your experience you first must control your mind.

And to get out of SP wiggle your big toe.

[Klowsy]

If you remain with your eyes closed tho? Can you still get visionary hallucinations, or is it only when you open your eyes and look around?

And also, the trance state is very good for hypnosis, I guess the trance we are talking about (induced by meditating) is also a hypnotic trance, and that means we are very open to suggestions. Could you then suggest to yourself that you are very relaxed and calm, or suggest t yourself that you see yourself on a beach or whatever calming you know, do you know if that could work and if you could avoid a scary experience that way?

thanks in advance 

[CFTraveler]

If you remain with your eyes closed ?

Yes.  If you open your eyes you wake up.

And also, the trance state is very good for hypnosis, I guess the trance we are talking about (induced by meditating) is also a hypnotic trance, and that means we are very open to suggestions. Could you then suggest to yourself that you are very relaxed and calm, or suggest t yourself that you see yourself on a beach or whatever calming you know, do you know if that could work and if you could avoid a scary experience that way?

thanks in advance 

Yes.  Affirmations are most effective in that state.

[Klowsy]

So it's not like in SP, that when you open your eyes you can still be paralysed and have visionary hallucinations while paralysed and with eyes open? Like seeing a demon sitting on your chair on the other side of the room?

Thanks for answering again 

[CFTraveler]

So it's not like in SP, that when you open your eyes you can still be paralysed and have visionary hallucinations while paralysed and with eyes open? Like seeing a demon sitting on your chair on the other side of the room?

Thanks for answering again 

No, that would be a hypnopomp.  The incoming hallucinations are hypnagogics, the persistent outgoing ones are hypnopomps.  Don't you love scientists? 

[Klowsy]

But you mentioned that you can get body paralysis while in a trance, does it break when you open your eyes then, like the hallucinations wud go away?  Cause when I was in SP, it didn't really help to open your eyes 

and yeah, scientists are great, it's good that they always try to find short words that are easy to remember 

[CFTraveler]

But you mentioned that you can get body paralysis while in a trance, does it break when you open your eyes then, like the hallucinations wud go away?  Cause when I was in SP, it didn't really help to open your eyes 

No no no- there are varying levels of trance.  Paralysis doesn't always happen unless you're in deep trance.  You can get hypnagogics without being paralyzed, and with practice, you can exit without paralysis.  If you're seeing stuff you can open your eyes and make them go away.  When you get to the point of being so deeply in that you are paralyzed, then you're on your way out of body- then ignore all else and concentrate on exiting.
The wiggling your toe is for real SP, not for trance.
If you have a dweller manifestation you don't want to break paralysis, you want to go towards it- but dwellers don't really happen in trance, unless you fell asleep when you were trying to project- then the toe thing applies.

[Klowsy]

The few times I've tryed to enter a trance (and failed), it was like it didn't happen much until one point, where it just says boom and you feel like sinking down or something, this is where I always loose it - is this the start of trance? If it is, you will not be paralysed right away? - as then this is the start of a light trance - and not a deep one?

[Stookie]

I never really get the feeling of being paralyzed, I think mainly because when I enter trance, I'm very relaxed and not concerned with my body in the first place. I don't care whether I can move it or not, which also makes for better chances of projection.

Have you read this? http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/focus_10_mind_awakebody_asleep-t24783.0.html

[Klowsy]

Could anyone confirm that the feeling I described in my previous post is the start of the trance state? 

And thanks Stookie, will read 

Some more questions if anyone wants to help:
When is the best time to enter trance, I've tryed in the morning after I wake up, but that seems to take forever (up to 1 hour, then I give up), haven't had any success with it yet. Is it easier to enter trance later on the day?

[Stookie]

For me, a sinking or some sort of strange movement-type feeling at the onset of trance. It's more of a sign that I'm relaxed and at the start of the real process. That's me...

[CFTraveler]

Could anyone confirm that the feeling I described in my previous post is the start of the trance state? 

I thought Stookie answered it.

Some more questions if anyone wants to help:
When is the best time to enter trance, I've tryed in the morning after I wake up, but that seems to take forever (up to 1 hour, then I give up), haven't had any success with it yet. Is it easier to enter trance later on the day?

It shouldn't be in the morning after you wake up- it should be one to two hours in the morning before your normal wakeup time- so you're already sleepy but have had enough hours behind you.

[Klowsy]

When you are in a trance , and your body is asleep, means you can't feel your body right? Like it's only your mind?  Cause I can only get to the point where my body feels very numb, or weird, then I stay at that point and can't get any further.

While im stuck at this point, my eyelids also start to flutter several times with short breaks, I try to keep my eyes closed while the eyelids flutter continuosly, and some weak colors would appear when my eyelids flutter. I guess this is not a trance, as you would not feel your body in one? Is this anywhere near a trance at all? Im having a hard time entering one 

[Stookie]

Like I said, it sounds like your close, but numbness & eyelid flutter, etc., are normally associated with the onset of trance - you still have the tricky part. By wondering if your body is asleep or whether you can feel it or whether it's numb is probably going to be a hindrance.

When people ask how close they are... well, we're all close all the time. It's right here now in the present moment behind a very, very thin veil. It's so close that it's almost strange we don't normally have conscious access to it all the time. Yet while your close, penetrating the veil is a tricky, delicate balancing act that takes a lot of practice for the majority of us.

Maybe try to keep yourself on more of a "mental" level. I remember Frank suggesting to someone that when you spend time "noticing" the blackness behind your eyelids, you should be passively aware as though your entire being exists simply within your "mental screen" - the blackness, anything that may arise in the blackness, thoughts, ...but not anything outside of that "mental screen". With enough practice, eventually your consciousness will shift from physical to astral.