Suicide and NDE

[Mini stapler]

Well, I don't believe for a second that suffering is "required" to learn, however, suffering is also not the big bad evil thing that most people believe it to be.
If you look at everything this reality has to offer, there isn't anything that is "bad"... there are only two kinds of experiences:  Those that increase your spirituality and those that decrease it. 

Everything is "only" an experience.  Any kind of moral/ethical attribute we give it is only that... something WE attribute it.  It's not fundamental.

I think there is one type of experience; it neither helps nor hinders, it just is - we internalize it and it manifests it's self within us and we shape the way it is manifested through our interpretations - it can build us up or pull us down, but I think that comes down to the person experiencing. Like a compliment interpreted as an insult can still hurt ones feelings, but in and of it's self it is neither an insult nor a compliment, it just is. And I think the more aware we become, the better equipped we are to interpret experience, manifesting it within us in a way that 'increases spirituality'.
That's the way I've come to look at it anyway.

[NoY]

 

[Xanth]

I think there is one type of experience; it neither helps nor hinders, it just is - we internalize it and it manifests it's self within us and we shape the way it is manifested through our interpretations - it can build us up or pull us down, but I think that comes down to the person experiencing. Like a compliment interpreted as an insult can still hurt ones feelings, but in and of it's self it is neither an insult nor a compliment, it just is. And I think the more aware we become, the better equipped we are to interpret experience, manifesting it within us in a way that 'increases spirituality'.
That's the way I've come to look at it anyway.

That would depend entirely upon why you believe we're here in the first place... and what the goals of this "game" are. 

[zareste]

suffering is also not the big bad evil thing that most people believe it to be.

That was insightful.

[Xanth]

That was insightful.

I wish I could tell when you're being sarcastic...

In any case,  I'm speaking on the consciousness level when I say that about suffering.

[sqprx]

What if there contract was to kill themself ?

Yes, suicide is also an experience. I was thinking about this topic for a while:

What is the suicide, for example, is not based on anger, frustration, depression but instead on love and forgiveness?

[catmeow]

Sounds like what your suggesting is that people should not have to suffer..? But suffering in its self is an essential part of awakening, with out it, what reason would there be to enlighten ones self in the beautiful reality of ones true nature

I'm not suggesting that people should not have to suffer. I'm suggesting that if the suffering becomes unbearable, they should be allowed to quit. It's like a guy makes a promise to climb Mount Everest. He even signs a contract. When he's half way up he realises he simply doesn't have the strength to climb that mountain. At the time he signed the contract, he didn't realise he was agreeing to the impossible. If the other signatory on the contract is a loving God, then I would not expect God to force the guy to keep climbing that mountain, over and over. I'd think a loving God would say "you tried your best, you learnt, I'll release you from the contract".

[catmeow]

Yes, suicide is also an experience. I was thinking about this topic for a while:

What is the suicide, for example, is not based on anger, frustration, depression but instead on love and forgiveness?

It's a good point. What if the suicide is a parent or partner who requires so much constant care from their loved ones, that they want to free them of the burden, by committing suicide. What if it is a selfless gesture intended to help loved ones? Should that gesture not be seen as a loving kind, good thing?

I can hear the answers now... "But he deprived his loved ones the experience of being carers. He denied them the chance to fulfill their soul contracts of being carers"!

And then the retort, "His suicide was planned. It was part of his soul contract. It was also part of his carers' soul contracts".

Confused? I am.....!

[catmeow]

As a guy who aborted his suicide, at the last second, this topic is interesting. I don't really believe in reincarnation, but I don't hate it or bash it.

I'd like to know why we have to "reincarnate" should we kill ourselves if, "we didn't take out the trash the next day". When you incarnate, you forget everything of who you were! Right? Like an erased USB or memory card. What's that moral doing mean anymore? You've forgotten who you were and probably aren't going to be the same. Unless it's just the roll of the dice (free will), until you choose right. But this process of understanding ourselves seems unnecessary and lengthy.

Well in theory our Higher Self does not forget anything. It keeps on learning from the experiences of its Lower Selves. The incarnate Lower Selves however, generally forget (that's the theory).

I thought that our existence was meant to keep on going, and learning, suicide was the choice of who you were at that point of existence. 

Well said. Very well put. That's how I would expect it to work. But looking at NDE accounts on yt, they say that isn't how it works?  Suicide is a broken soul contract apparently.

[zareste]

I think the new agers only consider it love if someone is in pain, so suicide probably won't count as love in their book. Except maybe a failed suicide.

[Stookie_]

The way I look at it, one lifetime is small drop in the bucket. From the point of higher self, it doesn't exist over time. Beginning to end exists as a single, whole unit. Your HS is trying to work efficiently, so if one lifetime fails in what it was sent to do, it's going to move those forces it needs over to another lifetime. There's no punishment, like being forced to do it again. It's not even "you" as you recognize yourself, it's a completely different ego and life.

[sqprx]

"No mater how you've died, once you go to the light, you are purified completely, it doesn't mean that you can skip grades though, you can't go any farther than you've learned to go. So in the future we're going to have ethical suicides (...) and what we need is conscious deathing on the planet and we need conscious birthing (...) I foresaw on the other side that California will actually be the leader in conscious deathing and birthing centers in the future."

This is an excerpt from Coast To Coast AM interview with Mellon-Thomas Benedict (the guy who had been terminally ill, died for 30 min and then went back to life again, enlightened; since then he can get out of his body and "talk to the light" whenever he chooses) And also he foresees the future.

(http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3938717178105593532        1:17:40 - Mellon talks about suicide)

This stuff he said rings a bell for me as "right" and it makes sense. I guess he talks about hopelessly ill people but I can't see how "conscious deathing" cannot be applied to people who just got bored with life or for some reason choose to die (maybe someone feels that he or she has already accomplished their mission on earth or learned everything he needed to learn). There is no fundamental difference at all. I think what is really important is the state of mind you die in. If you've made you peace with the world you have no hard feelings and you die with an open mind and the joy of going home I think there's no harm in it.

The reason why suicide got such a bad reputation I think is because of state of mind people willingly die in - depression, anguish and hopelessness which we all know immediately will manifest ensuring hellish and crazy expereience once they're out of their body.

What do you guys think?

[catmeow]

What do you guys think?

I think that makes sense.

Thanks for the link. I can't scroll to the point you mentioned on the video, because Google video doesn't play properly on my Google (android) tablet !!! which I'm using at the moment.

But I can listen to it from the start.  He says some interesting things, including the idea that he created his own brain cancer. I've heard this before from NDE accounts. I think Anita Moorjani said the same thing about her own cancer. We create our own illnesses. Doctors can fix the cancer, but unless we fix the problem in our inner self, where it started, it will just re occur.

Nice post and link.