You might be right in thinking that the afterlife is better but consider this - you incarnated, here, for a reason, so quit your whining and get to it!!!! Lol joke...but you get the idea. The physical might suck heavily at times, but there's still a purpose to it.
quote:
Originally posted by Inguma
You might be right in thinking that the afterlife is better but consider this - you incarnated, here, for a reason, so quit your whining and get to it!!!! Lol joke...but you get the idea. The physical might suck heavily at times, but there's still a purpose to it.
I've had negs try to talk me into suicide. I've known other people who have had those feelings and often it was Negs.
One freind I did a ritual for had a neg that thought if the guy killed himself his soul would leave and then it(neg) could inhabit his body.
After several attempts we finally banished the Neg.
Xander
That´s what everone says. "There is purpose." What about the childs that die and just don´t have any purpose with that? What about the thousands of people that have a completly stupid life and then they die in some stupid way? People that just don´t learn anything special, like eveyone. What purpose could it be?
I think that there is no purpose. We just born, live (?), and then die. That´s all folks! Life it´s just any other thing in the nature, like rocks, wood, clouds, wind, atc. There is no purpose, the creation it´s the result of incomprehensible laws of physics.
My question it´s still in the air: why not have a "perpetual obe" now, instead of being here suffering like a stray dog?! Maybe if i had a good life, i could wait with little or none desire for death, but since life sucks...why not?
Xander, about negs, i have no idea or way to know if i have negs in my life (i think not, because if so, then they must been chasing me since very very young. Even if i had negs i´m too tired and with no patience (and time!- my work is very busy!) for doing any ritual (wich i don´t know).
thanks in the same way
Some people who die before fulfilling their purpose are sent to the lower dimensions to relearn lessons forgot. Do not be one of them.
Maybe i was sent from an higher dimension, and this is the lower. If so, i´m not learning nothing knew. Instead i´m just forgetting things. My spiritual life it´s been a degrading road. Started like S*** and end like super s***.
You are correct, after this life i will enter in lower dimensions. After that dimension i will be in some worst place...and that will go on for eternety.
quote:
Originally posted by Kazbadan
you are correct, after this life i will enter in lower dimensions. After that dimension i will be in some worst place...and that will go on for eternety.
[V] That is a choice you make for yourself - no higher force is going to tell you or make you do anything.
You cannot pass a math test without working hard at it and accepting the difficulty of the test and the learning process - im sure there have been some people who have dropped out of exams and tests but I can bet they look back and wish they'd stuck with it.
That´s not that easy. Many times there are forces in your life that guides your life in a way that you can´t imagine. Not evryone can be lucky. Using your example of the Math test, you must take into account this: bad students are often childs living with bad parents or with a bad family (not necessary poor, just bd, opressive, anything). Good students, most of the time, have good place to grow up correctly (emotionaly, etc). All that factors afect there life. It´s not just a matter of choice or working hard...sometimes you cannot even choose. Life is to complex.
And believe me that i cannot work hard, for reasons that you don´t even imagine. Everytime i start to build an house, a giant hurricane destroy every single thing that i have made until that moment.
Theres always a reason for why something happens in your life, It could happen to make you a better person or test you, but no matter what the reason is your here. You gotta buckle down and enjoy the ride take it for what its worth.[:)][:)][:D][:)][:)]
It's really simple....
Life is what YOU make it. If you allow the negative aspects of this life to make your life crap, it will be crap. however if you decide to get off your butt, fight back, and make your life what you want it to be (good) your outlook will change.
Everybody gets down, and yes I've seen things and 'places' that made me not want to come back, but I know there are things to take care of here and no matter how down I may get sometimes I know there are good things about living that can't be had when not alive.
My son is now quadriplegic and completely dependant on me for many things due to a woman who uncaringly left him on the side of the road to die after running him down with her car. He laid there all night clinging to life by the barest of threads, made it through a 3 week coma, rahabilitation, permanent confinement to a wheelchair, and he's still here. He has a good outlook on life, which amazes me sometimes, but makes me happy none the less.
If he can be dealt such a hand and have a good outlook, I can't sympathize with anyone in a lesser situation that won't get off their butt and make their life something to aspire to. Set a goal for yourself, find your path....do something!
Kabadan, the fact of the matter is that you don't know what awaits you in the after-life. Nobody does. So how do you know you'll go to the astral once you die?
I agree completely with Spirit_k9. There are thousands of people out there far worse-off than you. I'm not saying i know you, but the simple fact that you're using the internet is enough to judge that you have some kind of fortunate life.
I see suicide as selfish. There's always somebody worse off than you, and ending your life isn't helping others.
Here's a thread that happened a long time ago that I found quite touching.
I'm sure some of the posts there will provide you with insight into the matter.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1493
I've been sitting here trying to think of a good quote or something, but none come to mind, so I'll just end with a smiley face[:)]
Kazbadan, if you're a king or a slave, I agree astral/afterlife is much better than life on earth, but I stay because I think staying this one life will make me at least twice as strong when I leave. This time its different. I'm not coming back, and I get to see the end of earth as it is now. If I left now, I might decide I had made a mistake and want to incarnate again but the only one I could find might be born 30 years ago. Thats 30 years more I'd have to stay here, and with less technology.
Kazbadan, If you think there is no reason for you to stay on earth and astral/afterlife is better, why are you still here? I will not think badly of you if you choose suicide.
Beavis, please take more time when you post things like this:
quote:
I will not think badly of you if you choose suicide.
It is insensitive in the extreme.
Anyway Kazbadan, i agree with shadow20205 and spirit_k9. Have a positive attitude and get on with it ! I believe the state of a person's life is a function of their will to change it. Now, I'm not living the most exciting, brilliant life at the moment !! Far from it. But I recognise that there is only one person who can change that.
quote:
That´s what everone says. "There is purpose." What about the childs that die and just don´t have any purpose with that? What about the thousands of people that have a completly stupid life and then they die in some stupid way? People that just don´t learn anything special, like eveyone. What purpose could it be?
Yes, some folks are born in unfortunate circumstances. But that doesn't mean that there may / may not be a purpose to it!
quote:
Do you get my point of view? Why do we need to continue living like zombies when the afterlife waiting for us it´s much more beautiful?
I don't believe that we are about to enter into a realm of "sweetness and light" ! ha ha...far from it. Our attitudes determine our experiences. Ironically, your belief that you will enter into a beautiful afterlife may colour your future experience. At the same time, your negative attitude may also affect your non-physical experiences.
quote:
My spiritual life it´s been a degrading road.
I'm sorry to hear this, I hope it changes in future !
best regards
Mark
Clandestino, I stand by my opinion of suicide. It is everybodys right to leave any time they want. Earth should not be a prison. And I should not think badly of them because they want to be somewhere else.
It is you who are insensitive. You try to make Kazbadan a prisoner.
Kazbadan-
I debatedon whether or not to respond. I'm not sure you will like what I have to say. But, speaking from experience, what I'm giving you is very sound advice.
I actually disagree with you on this point:
quote:
Not evryone can be lucky. Using your example of the Math test, you must take into account this: bad students are often childs living with bad parents or with a bad family (not necessary poor, just bd, opressive, anything). Good students, most of the time, have good place to grow up correctly (emotionaly, etc). All that factors afect there life. It´s not just a matter of choice or working hard...sometimes you cannot even choose. Life is to complex.
In high school, I was captain of the cheerleading squad 4 years, on prom and homecoming committees and graduated a member of the National Honor Society. Sounds all bright and rosy doesn't it? My family should have an above average household income and be very emotionally stable and supportive if I understand your argument.
But what you didn't see was that my father was an alcoholic. We didn't have a lot of money. Being the oldest, it was my responsibility to babysit my two younger siblings while my parents worked. This started when I was 9 years old (yep home alone and in charge of 2 kids at the age of 9). When I was older, I worked during summer vacations and after school to earn money.
Please understand that I'm neither complaining nor bragging about these things. I'm merely stating facts. I have two siblings. Each one of us dealt with things differently. I'm fully grown and have my own family now. I am still getting over my father's dictatorial parenting style. (although that voice still creeps into my head occasionally).
Life is completely about choices. Most of those choices are based on your attitude, not physical actions. You can choose to let your current situation destroy you. Or you can view it as a challenge and do everything that you can to emerge from it. We learn some of our greatest lessons about strength, humility and compassion while facing adversity. None of those things would have been discovered if our whole life was warm and cozy.
I actually struggle sometimes in teaching the lessons I learned to my children. My oldest isn't as mature as I was at her age. But her situation doesn't require it either. I obviously would not wish for any of them to live with an alcoholic parent. But on the other hand, I wouldn't change a thing about my childhood. Because I wouldn't be the person I am today without living through each one of those experiences. And emotionally stable families are not capable of teaching all the 'positive' personality traits to kids. Whether we like to admit it or not, adversity is needed. I actually feel guilty sometimes because my children don't have a very difficult time right now. Somehow, I feel like they are missing something, yet common sense would say they have everything they need.
My suggestion to you is try to look at your experiences as chances to learn and grow. It isn't meant to be easy. The math test may sound like an oversimplistic example, but its not. Most people fail a test before walking into the class room -- its all about attitude.
Remember, no one can make you miserable, happy, sad, or suicidal. Those are all choices that you make yourself. Never give that power away to anyone else. That's the one thing that they can never control. Only you can control your own actions, based on your choices. And whatever actions you choose, you should accept responsibility for. Because you are the one who made those choices, not others.
So before reacting to anything, stop and decide what YOU want to do in the situation. Don't feel forced into something by someone else. There are always other choices. And whatever you decide to do, remember that its your choice that does it, no one else's.
fair enough Beavis, thats your opinion !
Where's kazbadan, anyway ?
kazbadan is cool, he has great english and ideas like me[8D]
[8)] kaz are you english yet
One thing worth seriously considering for anyone considering suicide:
If you kill yourself, odds are that you did not accomplish what you came here to do. If this is true, you will most likely end up coming back and facing all the same crap again, only having to start completely over from scratch. You can put off your lessons as long as you want, but you can never truly "escape" them. The longer you try to "put them off", the more unpleasant they usually become.
On the bright side, facing our lessons is not usually nearly as difficult as we think it will be. I would suspect that if you look at your life closely, you will find that many of the things you consider so terrible are more a result of "putting off" facing some lesson squarely than it is the essence of the lesson itself.
If you ask with an open heart just what it is you need to learn, and are really open to the truth, I believe you will find life does not have to be as "terrible" as you feel it has been for you. The keys are honesty, sincerity, openness, and willingness to listen. That's 90% of all you need to get past anything.
Not only do I believe you will not "get out of" anything by killing yourself, but you will have also hurt all the people who care about you and have withheld your unique value from the world. You might not realize how special your unique contribution to the world is right now, but I promise you that there is something special only you have to share with the world. If you kill yourself, you will not only still have to face everything that seems so overwhelming to you already now, but you will also have to deal with the addition of all the negative karma such a selfish action will bring into your future lives. It is also distinctly possible that you would bring some or all of your earthly negaticity with you to the afterlife and create something not so pleasant for you there as a result of it. You are better than that.
You can beat this. If you honestly feel you can't, pray for help...I promise you it will be there for you if you are open to receive it. :)
--Soulfire
Soulfire "[Kazbadan if you suicide you will] have withheld your unique value from the world"
If he doesnt suicide, he will withold his unique value from the part of the afterlife he didnt go to because he was here instead.
this whole thread sounds like a converstaion with a neg I had when I was going through suicidal feelings. in the end, I kicked it's arse!
I'm feelin froggy today and challenge any neg that is telling anyone to kill themselves.
You wanna play neg? come on then! I'll play....but by MY rules!!!!
Xander the Great
(slamdancer of lizards, greys, negs and other spiritual malcontents).
Depression screws up energy levels. It equals negative energies.
Negative energies means you can't defend yourself well enough against negative astral entities. And you get screwed. Don't try to go OBE if you're depressed man - it won't turn out good at all.
I've been depressed before. I know that it is entirely not worth it.
Gah. My thoughts just flew out of my head. I'm sure I had something to say. Well, I'll post again later. Good luck man.
-Alezunde
*has nothing to say and simply hugs Kazbadan* Don't give up the fight. For it's really, really, worth fighting. You cannot except life to be all happy. A part of my life is excrement. But the other part is love and happyness. That's with everyone like that, even if a person doesn't notice. If you are only able to see the bad sides of life, you will forget about the good side, and things will seem even shittier than they already were. It's just like Empathy, really. There's a bad side, and a good side of Empathy. But the bad side can be so bad that Empaths sometimes completely forget about the good side, and start hating their Empathy, start hating themselves because of it.
Good luck and take care. :)
Hey! Beavis wants to kill me! (lol[;)]).
Thanks guys, but you don´t need to worry with me: i´m not gonna to commit suicide, but sometimes life is really a s***! Besides that, i will not die until: i see (and touch!!hmmm) Monica Belluci (this means that i will never die ´cause i will never touch" her), be with Dalai Lama and make something real good to anyone in a incoditional way. Sometimes i feel that i need to expand my being by loving everyone and making good to the ones that really need it. Sometimes i just want to escape from my life, abandon everything and start a new life, a life dedicated to the others, just like Buda did. But this are only mere words and thoughts, i will still worth nothing until turn them into acts.
Hi again,
It's worth considering that you do not have to physically die in order to get a fresh start. "Dying to the past" is a simple decision, and opens up your life to a brand new present and future. Many times this is done in conjunction with a ceremony, but the actual power of the act is in the decision itself. I suppose you probably know all this already, but sometimes hearing something again can still be helpful. Maybe you are not as far away from your "fresh start" as you think? :)
--Soulfire
Kazbadan_
Yes life can suck sometimes etc etc, but that doesnt mean there is no point to it. I see a great point to it as the earth realm is the greatest learning experience ever, and like all good learning experiences, some of the lessons can be painful, but you'll be better off for learning them just the same.
Yes, some people die in pointless random events. The way I see it, this can be for two reasons. 1) it really is a random event. I believe that although there are pre-ordained events, there is also a small random element involved in the material world that is an essential part of it and is vital for learning, as it throws up unexpected events. I know this might be hard for some people to accept after something really dirty happens but from a broader perspective all we have to do is go back in again and have another shot at what we want to do.
2) the dirty event is preordained as a vital learning experience which we may not understand the benefit of here but will come apparant in the future.
So yes, I agree with others here in that we are all here for a reason and we should stop winging and get on with it!
Douglas
Whoo. Ok. I'm back to post again.
There are a few ways to see life:
1 - Life throws excrement at you whenever it gets the chance.
2 - Life just happens.
I am a firm believer of number two. Sure, stupid stuff happens in life, which can make it suck. But life is not an entity bent on making your life hell.
Come on, look at life with a little lighter heart. Try laughing when bad stuff happens. It helps. A lot.
A lot more people live really dirty lives, and it doesn't show a mark on them. It's not because they're tougher, or because they just don't notice it - it's because they look at life the way they do.
Ok... so I'm not making much sense here.
- Perception alters reality. That's all I can say.
If you will see life as a dismal hole in the ground, then you will be in a dismal hole in the ground.
If you will look up and see the clear blue sky, and the way out of the hole, then you will get out of the hole.
As insensitive as it sounds, we punish ourselves, cause our own suffering, then blame it on life. It's how it happens.
Try to get a better outlook on life, and don't be so convinced that life will always be torture, otherwise it will be.
Anyways... I hope that made sense - I was kind of rambling a bit.
-Alezunde
Suicide is the mostly selfish act a person could commit. Anyone who has, is going to, and threatens to commit suicide really makes me angry. They're idiots who are self-centered and don't care about anyone else. They shouldn't have anyone's respect because they're so selfish.
quote:
Originally posted by Risu no Kairu
Suicide is the mostly selfish act a person could commit. Anyone who has, is going to, and threatens to commit suicide really makes me angry. They're idiots who are self-centered and don't care about anyone else. They shouldn't have anyone's respect because they're so selfish.
Thinking of or even committing suicide is only a mistake. If we refuse to respect and/or love someone because they are in a negative state and/or make a mistake, then we have made our
own mistake. When we put conditions on our willingness to respect or love, then we inflict negativity on ourselves as well as the rest of creation. We are not limited in how much love we have to give - in fact it is just the opposite.
It's worth thinking about: what are we
really accomplishing when we choose to judge and then restrict our expression of love to the world around us based on those judgements? What is gained? What is lost? Is it really worth it?
--Soulfire
It may look so Risu, but you are being very egoistic saying that. You never entered the soul of someone with real suffering, you just don´t know what you are saying. The childs that cry for famine, in Africa, they are the most stupid beings in the world and they make me angry...why, because they are really egocentric. Yesterday, someone was crying because her boyfriend was died in an accident...what a silly person!!! Self egoistic! She s really stupid! Crying for the boyfriend!! Puff! only a selfish person that doesn´t care for someone can do that! What about WTC? All the people crying and suffering with deaths of the friends and familiars...they are selfish, egoistic...Or why not saying the same for the guy with a cancer that causes horrible pains day and night in his body? He crys for that and cry because it´s alone in the hospital (the family has died in a accident with gas). Thay stupid person should be shame for himself!! Egoist!!!!!!
Being violent with a suicidal person will not help anyone! I will not commit suicide, but if i was, some answers here wouldn´t be of any help. Saying things like "You are being stupid! There are people that his in biggest pain than you (puff, btw: how can i be happiest for knowing that others are in biggest pain than me? - supposing that i´m suffering of course)!" or "You should be shame you! Only the weakest ones do that!". That kind of answers it´s violent for a suicidal. And besides that, you must remember that many suicidals are very sensitive and really love other people and want to help them, but when they reach the critical point they are mentally weak and consequently, they are physically weak. They can´t help themselves, and as so, they cannot help the others. So, you just can´t say that they are stupid selfish! They just don´t see the path. they need someone that can hold there hand, not someone that will punish him just because he has fallen into the ground! The doctors exist to help the weak not for killing them!
I´m not saying this because of me (since i´m far away from suicide), but i just want warn you against possible suicidal persons. One of the best attitudes it´s the one taken by Beavis: in a funy way he sayed that he wants me dead, because with that i would be free, etc, etc. If he sayed that in a serious way, it would be something completly different.
Jesus was biggest than anyone here and he ddn´t sayed that kin of things to the people suffering with diseases. Buda showed a great compassion for the ones that were no enlightened.
Not everyone can be like Buda or Jesus!
quote:
Originally posted by Risu no Kairu
Suicide is the mostly selfish act a person could commit. Anyone who has, is going to, and threatens to commit suicide really makes me angry. They're idiots who are self-centered and don't care about anyone else. They shouldn't have anyone's respect because they're so selfish.
It is clear you are suffering from a state of ignorance. I assure you suicidal people are not concerned about themselves in the sense you think they are. In a way they are more concerned with others than themsleves, yet it has takin on a nefgative form in which they have lost themselves in the pain of others.
People who kill themselves are afraid and often depressed, rarely is it a mentality of "i'll show them".
please educate yourself in regards to depression and suicide.
Xander
Xander, i totally agree with you. We need to be careful with someone suicidal: by one side, we cannot say agressive things like Risu sayed, but in the other hand, we cannot give excessive attention, because in a strange way that could be an incentive for them to commit suicide. It´s better to get informed in a specialist to know how to act in such situations. But each case it´s a case.
There are many kinds of depressions. Myself had different kinds od depression in the past. There was provoked by the thought that no one loves me, etc, etc. I was really bad. But one day (even now i don´t know how i reached that state) i had a depression completly different from everything i knew. It was almost physical, atacking not only my mind, but my neurons, my brain itself, all the structure of my being. It´s difficult to explain in my natural tongue, and even worst in english! That depression has make me entered in a so horrible state that i only wanted to kill me. I was not particulary sad or unhappy (like in other depression). It was mentally stronger than any other thing. There even wasn´t any auto-compassion (like in almost suicidals have), but instead some kind of force almost physical givin me insights that life is a non-sense thing, "saying" me that living is stupid and no logical and that my life was completely useless.
Well, i don´t know what more i can say about something so strange and difficult to explain, but that second depression was really horrible and not particulary self-centered. This is a proof (for me) that suicidals are not particulary thinking in themselves. Even know i´m thinking in what stopped me in commiting suicide!
Maybe some of you are thinking that it could be a neg or the like, but i think that the feeling borned in the deepest corners of my being, it doesn´t look like a spirit. At least it´s what i think (but i may be wrong).
If OBing is so good and beatifull, why we just don´t commit a colective suicide?! You could say "OBe is good but life is better!"? Really? My life is a s***, maybe if i make "seppuku", i will find something good in the other life. Maybe not, but since astral projecting is funny and very good...
Do you get my point of view? Why do we need to continue living like zombies when the afterlife waiting for us it´s much more beautiful?
And don´t say things like "Life is beautiful and blablabla" because that it´s just for some lucky guys, but not for the bilions of people suffering everyday in the most variable ways (famibe sickness, war, -the typical ones- etc, etc).
Life is so heavy...sometimes it is just like if i were carrying some big and painfull burning rock of iron...maybe i should change my name to Atlas...
good bye cruel world!!
(i was kiding now...don´t worry, will not do anything crazy[;)]...i hope!)