The Astral Pulse

Ryan or Stookie, feel free to move this if you feel it needs to be moved, but I think it's ok here.

I haven't been as active on the pulse lately as i have been in the past, i recognize that.  But recently, I started posting more again and I have been shocked by something that has happened quite a few times recently.  I'm not going to share any names, but since I've been back posting, I've gotten numerous PM's from new members who feel completely turned off to the forums.  Something about my posts makes them feel more comfortable with talking to me and nearly every one of them starts out by saying that they feel uncomfortable posting on the forum because they just get bashed and looked down on.  A few of them have even told me that they will not be posting on the forums anymore.

So, take it easy guys.  Not everyone is as well-studied as many of us, but that doesn't make their experiences any less valid.  In fact, I think these members that are untarnished by the rigid systems of belief concerning OBE can probably teach us a thing or two.  If you take anything away from this post, let it be that we are here to help each other, not lock into a belief and proselytize the rest of the form.  Be open minded and accept that different people experience reality in different ways.  Let go of semantics and share in the wonder and mystery of this experience.  We are supposed to be "better than" the religious types who blindly preach their doctrine, yet I see it happening over and over.  By all means, share your experience, but don't tell other people that they are wrong for asking a question.  If you can answer the question from your perspective do so, but don't let it turn into "I'm right and you're wrong" because no you're not and no they aren't.   

Thanks PR, I agree. As long as we are here in the physical, all of our perceptions and opinions are incomplete - no one knows for sure. We're infinitesimal in the scope of everything. Some people see red and call it brown.

I think we can get so caught up in descriptions and definitions of things that we let personal experience take the back seat. We want to compare our experiences and find similarities everywhere and make sure everyone else is calling what you see as red, red, and if they're not, they must be wrong. We're all human and subject to judge what we might not understand and try to "set it right" based on our own limitations.

IMO, the heart of an experience is in our thinking, feeling, and willing. Not in bodies or outside perceptions or labeling of focus levels, but the pure experience of those things and how they make us feel, what they make us think, and how we will our lives through them and from them.

Not that descriptions and similarities shouldn't be discussed, that's what this board is for. It should just be done in an open-minded way, knowing that no one can prove themselves as correct. If anything, we should be encouraging each other to find what they are searching for.

I totally agree with both of you  8-)


:NoY:

I agree that we should all keep an open mind.

On the other hand... the spectrum of non-physical experience is like degrees on a thermometer. Okay so we don't know where exactly where "lukewarm" ends and "hot" begins but we have a good idea, don't we? When I first stumbled upon astral projection I was like.. "Okay, this is just dreaming, isn't it?" In a way it is, but for an outsider it should be made clear that lukewarm isn't scalding hot. Repeating "It's all heat energy, it's all heat energy, it's all heat energy" when someone asks about the temperature outside doesn't do them any good. Repeating "It's all non-physical experience, it's all non-physical experience, it's all non-physical experience" would've turned me away from this practice in the beginning. Yea, it's all non-physical experience but it's also important to note the differences. That's how people build a foundation with which to base their own observations. Until telepathy takes off.. like I've said in the past, we'll have to settle for semantics. If you don't want to argue ideas there's always simply sharing experiences, which is just as fun I find.

I couldn't agree more.

If there were two things that I'd implore (beg, even) that people (especially new people to this forum and/or to this subject) understand:

1.  Nobody on this forum is right... nobody on this forum is wrong.
and
2.  Anything anyone says here is not gospel... it is only an opinion.

So who is bashing?

Quote from: personalreality on April 27, 2011, 11:17:18We are supposed to be "better than" the religious types who blindly preach their doctrine, yet I see it happening over and over.

You're so right! Let's never make this a dogmatic religion, stay open-minded all the time.
And guys, hey, ...  we are the spearheads of a coming paradigm change (however, don't ask me when it will happen  :wink:) and so we are in this together. There is waaaay much more uniting us then dividing us, even if we like to forget this when we're immersed in our 'trifle debate battles' over things such as 'phasing vs. vibration-obes' (stuff of which the majority of the common population does not even know yet what it's about at all) or similar topics. Let us never forget about this fact: We are open-minded experiencers, all of us. We should be proud of (or at least happy about) this. Therefore we should be happy about every 'newbie' and people that find their way to this kind of open-mindedly lived spirituality.

Amen.  :evil: :-D

Quote from: Lexy on April 27, 2011, 15:35:41
So who is bashing?

everyone is to some degree.  Some worse than others.  But we all get a little hung up on ourselves sometimes, its only natural.  I'm not saying anyone is in the wrong, just that, as a community we need to be sure to keep that comradeship alive and remember that we are in this together against the rest of the world that thinks we're crazy.  We can build something great if we don't let ourselves be dissolved from within.

We are a Tribe  8-)


:NoY:

Quite

The fact that strangers feel comfortable confiding in you bodes well for your future. :wink: Great post. Thanks.
                                                                                               -Jim-

People shouldn't be so afraid...I mean if they can't take bashing from us..they don't stand a chance out there....if you know what I mean. 

People shouldn't be afraid to state their beliefs....I don't know who is bashing someones beliefs but that shouldn't stop people from posting their beliefs.

Quote from: Lexy on April 27, 2011, 15:35:41
So who is bashing?

I would have to ask this too; I haven't been here for long, but I read the threads, and have not noticed anything too bad. Nothing that isn't found in any other forum (Social-wise).

Except, perhaps those two guys who appeared to be trolls. Then again, the way they spoke, they had to have known they were going to get talked down. Everyone I met here seems to be helpful to some degree: they state their beliefs and such, and share what they think will be helpful.

However...I do notice some people saying things like "There is no such thing...." and "Impossible..." way too many times. Is this perhaps what you are referring to?

Quote from: Dazino on April 27, 2011, 20:26:07Except, perhaps those two guys who appeared to be trolls. Then again, the way they spoke, they had to have known they were going to get talked down. Everyone I met here seems to be helpful to some degree: they state their beliefs and such, and share what they think will be helpful.

That's what I figure... this board has to be one of the most well-behaved and open minded communities on the internet. Those two were patronizing and arrogant to put it delicately. If we're going to make threads preaching etiquette around here then it should be applied to everyone. The new members are new to projection, not to manners.  :wink:

Quote from: personalreality on April 27, 2011, 11:17:18
Ryan or Stookie, feel free to move this if you feel it needs to be moved, but I think it's ok here.

I haven't been as active on the pulse lately as i have been in the past, i recognize that.  But recently, I started posting more again and I have been shocked by something that has happened quite a few times recently.  I'm not going to share any names, but since I've been back posting, I've gotten numerous PM's from new members who feel completely turned off to the forums.  Something about my posts makes them feel more comfortable with talking to me and nearly every one of them starts out by saying that they feel uncomfortable posting on the forum because they just get bashed and looked down on.  A few of them have even told me that they will not be posting on the forums anymore.

That's why I don't post anymore, I'm scared of Xanth.

Quote from: kurtykurt42 on April 28, 2011, 01:59:08
That's why I don't post anymore, I'm scared of Xanth.

Well, I guess that's too bad Kurt... cause I'm a nice guy. 

Anyway... I would like to take this second to link the AUP:  http://www.astralpulse.com/aup.html

That link is at the top of every page on the forums, I believe, and are our established rules of conduct for members.

Quote from: kurtykurt42 on April 28, 2011, 01:59:08
That's why I don't post anymore, I'm scared of Xanth.

With those abdominals of doom? Xanth must be the Terminator.  :lol:

Quote from: Astral316 on April 28, 2011, 09:02:51
With those abdominals of doom? Xanth must be the Terminator.  :lol:

I'll be back!  >_>

hehe yeah, not quite.  ;)

Quote from: Dazino on April 27, 2011, 20:26:07
I would have to ask this too; I haven't been here for long, but I read the threads, and have not noticed anything too bad. Nothing that isn't found in any other forum (Social-wise).

Except, perhaps those two guys who appeared to be trolls. Then again, the way they spoke, they had to have known they were going to get talked down. Everyone I met here seems to be helpful to some degree: they state their beliefs and such, and share what they think will be helpful.

However...I do notice some people saying things like "There is no such thing...." and "Impossible..." way too many times. Is this perhaps what you are referring to?

Naturally the internet allows for blathering, but I always felt like the pulse was different.

What I'm talking about is newcomers being bombarded with criticisms of their posts and nay-saying.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't share our opinions with each other and new comers, just that maybe we can be a little easier on obviously new people until they get accustomed to our group.  If I join this forum and was told that my first post about my experiences was just unreasonable, ignorant, naive, wrong, ill-informed, etc. etc., I wouldn't come back.  And more to the point, who the hell do we think we are to instantly dismiss someone's personal experience on the basis of our own experience? 

Like I said, it's all good, I'm not calling out anyone in particular and I don't even have specific people in mind.  I'm just saying that we should be aware of our attitude toward new people.  Perhaps is the compassionate side of me speaking, and I know that the "real world" is tough so they should get used to it, but maybe we can be different.  Maybe we can be the ones who care about each other and try to have an open mind and sympathetic ear.  That's all really.  Nothing drastic, just think about how you would feel as a novice trying to understand something amazing.

QuoteNothing drastic, just think about how you would feel as a novice trying to understand something amazing.

Exactly, or you're getting advice from someone who is guessing at half of what they are talking about, and the other half is what they read in a Thomas Campbell book. I think THAT is against the AUP, being dishonest with the community.

Quote from: kurtykurt42 on April 28, 2011, 01:59:08
That's why I don't post anymore, I'm scared of Xanth.

Instead of running away and allowing your fear to deny yourself freedom of speech, why don't you face it? Tut-tut... allowing a twisted and irrational perspective to dictate how you behave (i.e. not posting anymore) sounds like the coward's way out to me...

Are you a coward?

Quote from: Lexy on April 27, 2011, 19:18:37
People shouldn't be afraid to state their beliefs....I don't know who is bashing someones beliefs but that shouldn't stop people from posting their beliefs.

Precisely! 8-)

With Xanth, there is often no rational debate. You just have to "agree to disagree" and realize "it's my truth and your belief". Not wanting to deal with that is not being a coward. It's not worth getting banned over.

Erm...I was talking about kurtykurt42?

Btw, I have spoken to Xanth before and he doesn't seem like the sanctimonious type at all. At least he hasn't been with me. And if he is...you know what I do with those people? I let them express themselves and leave them be if their views don't resonate with mine. You have a biased view of Xanth in my opinion. This view you have of him is simply born from the fact that something about him doesn't agree with your way of thinking. It works both ways.

Rather than moaning about the way someone is, complaining and putting them down...isn't it best to just agree to disagree or at least try and understand why the other person has their views? How is it helping by you slagging him off? That's counter-productive on your part. I'm giving you advice from one mod to another...

Yeah, Kurt was talking about Xanth. That's why he doesn't post, hence my post.

I don't think Xanth would ban someone just for disagreeing with him. Also, Kurty just posted above to vilify Xanth. Now he's not posting. that sounds like a coward to me.

We've had problems with people getting banned and/or permanently leaving after too many debates with Xanth that dead end. Good, experienced, long-time members. Remember Alan RK?

That doesn't matter. Those people who left were not told to leave by Xanth. They made their own decisions and Xanth is not responsible. It's unfair to hold him accountable for that and it is disgusting that you are backing someone who has just slandered him here and left with his tail between his legs. What happened before is past and irrelevant. As the story goes, Jesus Christ was spat on, stoned, beat and crucified by a crowd and yet he is regarded as a saviour...you get my analogy?

There are always two sides of a story. I wonder what that Nay said. Besides, that's past and as I said...irrelevant. I haven't seen anything wrong with Xanth lately. It seems you two are looking to lynch him. what's this? A campaign to get rid of him? How sad. How comes me and others don't have a problem with him. And to register with the sole reason to support an apparent hate on Xanth "team Stookie" is pretty dull. Why don't you focus on talking about OOBEs and engaging in other subjects alike?

Team Stookie...pffft

Can I be team Bedeekin? Sorry... but I take my own side.  :-D

Pauli2 has a lot to learn and is extremely biased by what he's read. By the way, don't look back in anger but around in awareness.

Quote from: Summerlander on April 28, 2011, 14:40:03
That doesn't matter. Those people who left were not told to leave by Xanth. They made their own decisions and Xanth is not responsible. It's unfair to hold him accountable for that and it is disgusting that you are backing someone who has just slandered him here and left with his tail between his legs. What happened before is past and irrelevant. As the story goes, Jesus Christ was spat on, stoned, beat and crucified by a crowd and yet he is regarded as a saviour...you get my analogy?

I'm not backing him, I understand him due to past problems we've had. People are afraid to debate a mod because they don't want to get banned, like AlanRK and like Nay. Alan probably should have left it alone, but he really felt there was an injustice being done. I agreed with him but HAVE A LIFE OUTSIDE THIS FORUM and wasn't around. If I was, Alan would still be here. Calling Alan a coward is like calling a college professor a coward for not wasting his time debating 3rd graders. He was one of the few to really speak his mind and then... BANNED!

Sounds like this AlanR was really brave if he was willing to "die" for what he believed in...or he was a martyr fool! However you want to look at it. :-D

Look, just leave Xanth alone and stay out of his way. You don't have to talk to him or even reply to his posts...even if his posts disagree with yours!! :roll:

well..the very first time I came here I remember being so-called bashed and it didn't deter me but I think it actually helped me see things a different way.
I am not talking about personal attacks and calling people liars..there used to be a lot of personal attacks here and no one would stop it. I think its gotten much better.
Its no longer tolerated. There once was a person I really liked who posted a lot of mystic stuff...people called him a liar and worse..I defended him. But in the end
that person wasn't worth defending. Sometimes feeling sorry for someone doesn't help them at all. It just feeds their victim mentality. He was perma-banned and for good reason. Just like anyone else perma-banned..they deserved it...they brought it upon themselves.

Exactamundo, Lexy! Well done! 8-)

And may I add...whatever Xanth has done before is done. He can't undo it now and perhaps he has grown a lot better since.

Quote from: Summerlander on April 28, 2011, 14:58:59
Sounds like this AlanR was really brave if he was willing to "die" for what he believed in...or he was a martyr fool! However you want to look at it. :-D

Look, just leave Xanth alone and stay out of his way. You don't have to talk to him or even reply to his posts...even if his posts disagree with yours!! :roll:

No he wasn't brave. I was sad to see him go. He had a lot of experience and a lot of advice and was one of the few members here at the time like that.

I think most of you know, I'm fairly humble on this forum. I don't argue, I love to debate where possible. I've got 7 years under my belt here with very very few problems until recently. And I'm sure there wouldn't be these types of issues with more mods, but for one reason or another it doesn't seem to happen. We definitely need a change in the administration/mods, and it's like we've been in this horrible limbo for too long now. I really want change ASAP. I think it would help. We wouldn't be here if change happened 6 months ago when it was first needed.

Quote from: Summerlander on April 28, 2011, 14:53:02
Pauli2 has a lot to learn and is extremely biased by what he's read.

That's absolutely 100 % correct.

Maybe u understand me more than I realize?

Quote from: Summerlander on April 28, 2011, 14:28:05
I don't think Xanth would ban someone just for disagreeing with him. Also, Kurty just posted above to vilify Xanth. Now he's not posting. that sounds like a coward to me.

I wouldn't, and I haven't.  I'll talk numbers... I've handed out three temp bans and one permanent ban in my 10 months as a moderator here.
Three temp bans were to AlanRK (berating the astral pulse and it's members), Nay (for obvious abuses, minor and major) and AstralAddict (airing out off-forum issues here).  Nay received a permanent ban because she consistently refused to follow the rules... along with some more worse-issues, like attempting to blackmail me.  Yup, you heard it correct, blackmail.  I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that you won't find anyone who's been here for a while that would like to see Nay back.

Suffice to say, and I'll get this out here so Stookie can also have a say in it...
The Astral Pulse has *RULES*.  You agree to those rules when you create an account and you agree to them each time you post.

99.9% of the time, there are never any issues.  This place runs great.  I truly haven't seen any bashing, as PR suggests, since Nay was banned.  Actually, since Nay was banned, this place has been running quite smoothly.  However, from time to time, there are people who like to abuse the rules... those people need to have a consequence for their actions.  Is that not logical?  You break the rules... you face the consequence?

And summerlander... please don't compare me to Jesus again. >_<  Holy crap... LOL

Stookie, Stookie...

Arguments are inevitable. So are wars! No matter how many different arse-wipers are elected. I can be disappointed about many things but I just deal with my feelings in the end. I'm sure there are many others with a lot more to give. How many members you got here? Many! You even have Robert Bruce. It doesn't matter. If there is change, adapt to it. It is only a "horrible limbo" if you make it so in your mind.

Look, you do what you want and try to convince your Site Owner here to get rid of Xanth without a fair trial or whatever. You have the power so why don't you click on his name and press delete account? But I am just advising you to be a bit more lenient as a mod because Xanth seems to have also contributed massively like with the Kepple pdf and you may hack a lot of people off if you just get rid of him. And you wouldn't want that, would you?

As for AlanR, it's not like he died is it?

Quote from: Xanth on April 28, 2011, 15:21:47
I wouldn't, and I haven't.  I'll talk numbers... I've handed out three temp bans and one permanent ban in my 10 months as a moderator here.
Three temp bans were to AlanRK (berating the astral pulse and it's members), Nay (for obvious abuses, minor and major) and AstralAddict (airing out off-forum issues here).  Nay received a permanent ban because she consistently refused to follow the rules... along with some more worse-issues, like attempting to blackmail me.  Yup, you heard it correct, blackmail.  I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that you won't find anyone who's been here for a while that would like to see Nay back.

Suffice to say, and I'll get this out here so Stookie can also have a say in it...
The Astral Pulse has *RULES*.  You agree to those rules when you create an account and you agree to them each time you post.

99.9% of the time, there are never any issues.  This place runs great.  I truly haven't seen any bashing, as PR suggests, since Nay was banned.  Actually, since Nay was banned, this place has been running quite smoothly.  However, from time to time, there are people who like to abuse the rules... those people need to have a consequence for their actions.  Is that not logical?  You break the rules... you face the consequence?

And summerlander... please don't compare me to Jesus again. >_<  Holy crap... LOL

Like I said ^^...there's two sides to the same coin...

And I apologise for comparing you to Hesus! :-D

Quote from: Stookie on April 28, 2011, 15:12:48
No he wasn't brave. I was sad to see him go. He had a lot of experience and a lot of advice and was one of the few members here at the time like that.

I think most of you know, I'm fairly humble on this forum. I don't argue, I love to debate where possible. I've got 7 years under my belt here with very very few problems until recently. And I'm sure there wouldn't be these types of issues with more mods, but for one reason or another it doesn't seem to happen. We definitely need a change in the administration/mods, and it's like we've been in this horrible limbo for too long now. I really want change ASAP. I think it would help. We wouldn't be here if change happened 6 months ago when it was first needed.

It was sad to see him go, more for me.

During his ban, he emailed me personally asking me to delete his account.  I told him that even if I could, I wouldn't, because I still wanted to see him posting.

Make no mistake, it was *HIS OWN CHOICE* not to return.  He couldn't stand the fact that people here didn't think like he did.

Small Edit:  Nay still would have ended up banned... you can ignore breaking the rules only so many times before enough is enough and something has to be done.

And look who's the "Stookie Team" coward now who removed his posts and made me look like I double posted! :-D

I support Xanth.

There needs to be someone taking care of the regular business, day-to-day, and that is Xanth for me so far.

I deleted those and told him to get off my team. I can speak for myself.

QuoteLook, you do what you want and try to convince your Site Owner here to get rid of Xanth without a fair trial or whatever.

I didn't say that. At least not publicly. I did notice the jump in strange posts by new people the last time we did this though. There was even a new guy that said "Wow Xanth, your the best moderator I've ever seen!". It was bit too obvious.

I don't have a problem with you Summerlander. You obviously do know a lot about what your talking about in your posts. They're original. Want to be a mod?

Really, I know this shouldn't be out here on the public forum, but I have no where else to go, no admin, no other mods, it's just me and Xanth. Never ever ever ever again would I mod a forum with only 1 other mod and no admin, because if you don't agree, then what happens? This.

Maybe everybody could count to 10 before posting again in this thread

it seems like a load of who har over nothing to me :|

:NoY:

Quote from: Stookie on April 28, 2011, 15:46:51
Really, I know this shouldn't be out here on the public forum, but I have no where else to go, no admin, no other mods, it's just me and Xanth. Never ever ever ever again would I mod a forum with only 1 other mod and no admin, because if you don't agree, then what happens? This.

Well hell, we might as well just be open.

We've been trying to get Timandra and Stillwater into the mix as well.  They've accepted (assuming they *STILL* want the position LOL), we're just waiting on Adrian to do the promotions.
We've had another moderator choose to resign a little bit ago.  I'd love to see the ranks of the moderator forum swell a bit more.

Two people make it hard to pass any judgment.  >_<
Especially when the vote is split 1 - 1.  LoL

Quote from: Stookie on April 28, 2011, 15:42:35
I didn't say that. At least not publicly. I did notice the jump in strange posts by new people the last time we did this though. There was even a new guy that said "Wow Xanth, your the best moderator I've ever seen!". It was bit too obvious.

I know you might not believe me, but I really had nothing to do with that.  :/

Quote from: Bedeekin on April 28, 2011, 14:52:01
Can I be team Bedeekin? Sorry... but I take my own side.  :-D

I wanna join your team :-D

lol... Go team Bedeekin... me and thee then WASD.  :-D

I would vote for Summerlander. I've known him for a year or so now. He's as batty as they come but he's a hard worker when it comes to moderating.

Quote from: Stookie on April 28, 2011, 15:42:35
I deleted those and told him to get off my team. I can speak for myself.

I didn't say that. At least not publicly. I did notice the jump in strange posts by new people the last time we did this though. There was even a new guy that said "Wow Xanth, your the best moderator I've ever seen!". It was bit too obvious.

I don't have a problem with you Summerlander. You obviously do know a lot about what your talking about in your posts. They're original. Want to be a mod?

Ok. Make me a mod and I'll keep the two of you in check. You have a good point there. I feel you.

seriously?

i was just saying that we should think about what we say before we say it, nothing more.

this is a bit out of hand and honestly a bit ridiculous.  kind of exactly what i was talking about.\

jeez.

i regret starting this thread, and henceforth remove myself from it.
lol and a half.

I on the other hand have no regrets. 8-)

Quote from: Bedeekin on April 28, 2011, 15:58:06
lol... Go team Bedeekin... me and thee then WASD.  :-D

I would vote for Summerlander. I've known him for a year or so now. He's as batty as they come but he's a hard worker when it comes to moderating.

*Reads Bedeekin's mind*

Bedeekin's thoughts:

Yes! I'll back team Summerlander in order to get him promoted as a mod here so he doesn't post on Astral Viewers any more! My plan is working...

Summerlander concludes:

On second thoughts, Stookie, if you have doubts about me consider them seriously and take heed of your anti-Summerlander intuition if you have at least an ounce of it. Make Bedeekin a mod instead. This guy is an Admin on AVers. I was once a mod there but I got fired. That can't be good on my CV, can it? Or give the modship to personalreality if you feel that Bedeekin is already too much of something...

:-D

*Thread posted. Three seconds till detonation.* *Three* *Two* *One* Boom.

Heeeessshhh! People are being way too high strung! Whats with the stone head fighting? Take it easy, would ya? We can work things out without barking at each other like jackals....

Some bark like jackals and others hide...

But your the one that detonated the bomb, Dazino! Is that your solution to everything? :-D

My solution to most things. Sometimes I just set off a firecracker. ^ ^

In my first thread regarding to my first OBE, Pauli2 was the first person replied, and the only thing he said was:

"read some threads"

I'm not easily offended, in many forums I've been to I know this could happen often due to members who are more experienced can easily get bored by repetitive noob questions.
But for sure, that's not very encouraging.
Beedeekin has been the good guy though  :-D

Quote from: personalreality on April 28, 2011, 18:10:48
seriously?

i was just saying that we should think about what we say before we say it, nothing more.

this is a bit out of hand and honestly a bit ridiculous.  kind of exactly what i was talking about.\

jeez.

i regret starting this thread, and henceforth remove myself from it.
lol and a half.

No no, this was a great opportunity to come together as a whole forum.. for the members AND moderators.
I, personally appreciate the effort you put forth here.  :)

Quote from: mykorock on April 28, 2011, 22:09:22
In my first thread regarding to my first OBE, Pauli2 was the first person replied, and the only thing he said was:

"read some threads"

I'm not easily offended, in many forums I've been to I know this could happen often due to members who are more experienced can easily get bored by repetitive noob questions.
But for sure, that's not very encouraging.
Beedeekin has been the good guy though  :-D

Thanks... but you must understand though mykorock... I have a ridiculous amount of patience that can verge on psychotic... some say inhuman.  :-D

I will have to say that this is a really interesting thread...

and personalreality... dude.. .wtf?

You can't set off a thread and not see it through. Also I haven't detected the usual tinkling contest that usually destroys a thread.

Greetings all
I feel compelled to post a response here. I should mention that possibly I have been here the longest among all non-moderators. I became a member back in 2002 or early 2003.
So let me articulate what I feel about the Astral Pulse.
When I started here I had about 6 or 7 years of experience with OBEs but had never been a member of a forum like this. I have never had a serious problem with any member or moderator. Only on two or three occasions have I had a serious disagreement with anyone here.
The only time that I ever became suspicious about anything here was when I read an article, posted on another website, about how Robert Bruce had originally started Astral Pulse and how Robert Bruce eventually lost control over this website to several people. I could go into details and yet will not do so because it is not immediately relevant to this thread. Anyway the gist of this is that I was concerned that Frank Kepple's "phase' model was going to be valued at Astral Pulse to the near exclusion of all other theories.
Let me state categorically and unequivocally that this is not the case and has never been the case. Phasing is discussed here at length, yes but so are all other theories, models, methods and techniques of OBEs and astral projection.
Now Frankly I am not 100 % sold on the concept of phasing. To me it sounds too much like remote viewing. And yet I HAVE managed to phase directly out of a lucid dream, (and a non-lucid dream too btw) into an OBE. So I Am open to discussions of phasing. Even if I was not open minded to it then I would simply avoid those threads about Phasing and concentrate on other posts.
So, let me conclude.
Yes there is probably some bashing. It really is not too bad here although when one is the Target of a bash it can seem excessive.
The mods do a Good job.
Every big site does lose valued members from time to time. That just happens. Fortunately Astral Pulse has managed to keep a solid cadre of experienced, intelligent and articulate OBEers and astral projectors. These members consistently share their OBEs here and try to encourage and help new members.
To new members. Yes, I admit it -- I can get bored to tears answering the same questions time and again. [Anyone care to guess how many posts in these forums are titled, "Was this an OBE or a dream?" (or something very similar).] Try to understand that even the most experienced members here cannot possibly answer most of your questions. Think about it, if you are not sure if your experience was a dream or a lucid dream or an OBE then How is anybody else going to be able to determine that simply by reading your post?? :?  The other members and I can only take an educated guess on many occasions and reply accordingly.
Oh yes, and one more thing, I never had any problems with Noy and did Not want to see him leave.  :-)

Regards  8-)
Grey

I have not left  8-)


:NoY:

Quote from: NoY on April 29, 2011, 08:58:25
I have not left  8-)


:NoY:

\o/

Long live the "Take it easy guys" thread.

:evil:

Now I'll butt in, because even though I got here in 2003 give or take a few months, I've also seen a lot of interesting stuff.
Both Stookie and Xanth can be said to have different styles of moderating, with almost opposing point of views- but this is necessary in a forum, because you have all kinds of people with all kinds of views/behaviors- and anytime you have 'just' one style the forums suffer.  I have seen this in many places.
Please both of you stay (I'm not sure what's happening behind the scenes now, I hope you're still here, Stookie) and get more moderators in- that way, when you disagree (and you may find that someday you end up not disagreeing all the time, things change in all kinds of ways) other mods can put things to a vote and reach a consensus.
So I hope the other invitees say yes, and that all of you moderate this forum- please!
OK, tnks bai.
:wink:

This sounds like a plan! ^^^ 8-)

QuoteNoy

I have not left   8-)

Oops  :oops: 
O Yeah, Whoo Hoo !  :-D

Grey

   :evil:

incidentally, and just out of interest a silly question, as there is only talk here of the aforementioned two mods, what happened/happens to the others on the list?

Moderators: Rob, Kodemaster, AndrewTheSinger, clandestino, Gandalf, MisterJingo, Stookie, David Warner, Xanth

:?

Quote from: Volgerle on April 29, 2011, 18:13:09
incidentally, and just out of interest a silly question, as there is only talk here of the aforementioned two mods, what happened/happens to the others on the list?

Moderators: Rob, Kodemaster, AndrewTheSinger, clandestino, Gandalf, MisterJingo, Stookie, David Warner, Xanth

:?

Stookie and myself are here mostly everyday.  The others stop by from time to time, but the majority of the moderating gets done by the two of us.
Not to put down the fine job the others have done over the course of the time they've been moderators, but we're trying to get more active moderators to fill in now.

and I'm here too...the other mod with the little green stars (I'm special) who will keep an eye on the veteran mods.

Quote from: Summerlander on April 29, 2011, 19:24:12
and I'm here too...the other mod with the little green stars (I'm special) who will keep an eye on the veteran mods.

Keep 'em honest, Summerlander.  JK, I love you all.

Will do! :wink:

Yeah, I am disappointed when there are personal arguments. I like all the long-time posters I have come to know through what they type here, and don't want to see anyone leave, especially on the premises of heated words (this including Nay, although I do agree she may have been a bit too spicy of late).

And frankly, I am very glad the forum dropped the "karma" system on the accounts- I thought it caused too many arguments, and gave newer people the wrong impression. It also caused some people to have sort of a negative halo cast around them when commonly they said things which went against what most of the group thought. There are enough accidental arguments in any social center like this, without artificial systems inspiring more, lol.

Was Nay the one who spread the demon gospel? If so, thank god she's gone. :roll:

:-D

she comes and goes.

do

we're all here to continue doing better.  lol, kidding.  i'm sure things have gone up and down over the years.

 
  Dang, 75 post! From "The Great and Wonderful Oz" wannabes? I visit here maybe once a month, hoping
for some insight, or perhaps a little inspiration. I pick a topic with several post, thinking I'll find more varied input that way.
 
  My oh my, what a let down this time! I know that everyone needs to vent sometimes, but really?
Don't y'all  "Big Stars"  have a better, more private place to exchange your love letters?!?

I just love the title.  8-) this should prolly be in astral chat, it's not really about OBE's

Quote from: DraregElder on May 04, 2011, 00:14:38
 
  Dang, 75 post! From "The Great and Wonderful Oz" wannabes? I visit here maybe once a month, hoping
for some insight, or perhaps a little inspiration. I pick a topic with several post, thinking I'll find more varied input that way.
 
  My oh my, what a let down this time! I know that everyone needs to vent sometimes, but really?
Don't y'all  "Big Stars"  have a better, more private place to exchange your love letters?!?

I agree... this topic was largely unnecessary when it was posted and now it's just an eyesore. Let's discuss ideas and experiences, not members and protocol.

i stated clearly in the first post that the moderators were welcome to move it to another topic if they felt it was necessary.

also, we don't give ourselves stars and none of us think we're the "elite" because we are "big star" people. 

DraregElder, you said it yourself, you only come around once a month.  You have no input in this conversation as it pertains to regular postings.  If it isn't your cup of tea, don't read it.

That said, I agree, this became a useless post.  I was trying to share a concern that I have based on the outrageous amount of people who have PMed me because they didn't feel welcome asking their questions to the open forum out of what they felt was harassment by other members.  I don't even know what this turned into, but my point was missed and made no difference.  I suppose I can't be the advocate I was trying to be.

Nevertheless, I've got the stars so I guess I'll keep running my mouth all I want because I'm obviously better than all of you one-star folks.  So from now on, I would thank you lowly one or two star people to just not talk to me period.  I have no time for you.

You guys are right.

But honestly, I think this was a great thread.  I don't usually like these "therapy-threads", as this isn't the point of this forum... but, in this case, it was sorely needed.

Since this thread is where we air the dirty laundry... I think it's absurd that the only regular mod here has to consult other mods that only visit sporadically in order to ban blatant trolls. This isn't an issue on any other forum I've been apart of. I couldn't care less who's running this place but if there's only one persistent mod he should be given the power to at least do the job without feeling apprehensive about it. I mean this is getting beyond ridiculous.

Quote from: Astral316 on May 04, 2011, 13:02:54
Since this thread is where we air the dirty laundry... I think it's absurd that the only regular mod here has to consult other mods that only visit sporadically in order to ban blatant trolls. This isn't an issue on any other forum I've been apart of. I couldn't care less who's running this place but if there's only one persistent mod he should be given the power to at least do the job without feeling apprehensive about it. I mean this is getting beyond ridiculous.

They don't have to consult with the other mods.  The mods that never stop by know that they don't stop by and don't expect decisions to be made with their approval.  Xanth and Stookie are probably trying to give the trolls the benefit of the doubt.

Perhaps we need some slightly more dictatorial mods that won't hesitate to nip a problem in the bud before it gets out of control.  You should campaign Astral.  lol.

Quote from: personalreality on May 04, 2011, 13:48:10Perhaps we need some slightly more dictatorial mods that won't hesitate to nip a problem in the bud before it gets out of control.  You should campaign Astral.  lol.

Thanks? Lol, I'm not qualified to run this place nor do I want it becoming a chore. I just think if we want that friendly, respectful atmosphere the powers that be shouldn't be reluctant to pick a few bad apples out of the bunch.

agreed friend.

"Nevertheless, I've got the stars so I guess I'll keep running my mouth all I want because I'm obviously better than all of you one-star folks.  So from now on, I would thank you lowly one or two star people to just not talk to me period.  I have no time for you".
[/quote]


Yeah, you sure put me in my place didn't ya. But didn't you start this thread to champion the rights of us lowly, new and occasional posters from the elite??
Me thinks you take yourself a wee bit too serious,  friend...   

 :-D

Quote from: DraregElder on May 04, 2011, 15:57:11
Yeah, you sure put me in my place didn't ya. But didn't you start this thread to champion the rights of us lowly, new and occasional posters from the elite??
Me thinks you take yourself a wee bit too serious,  friend...   

lol, we need a good sarcasm emoticon.  obviously that was a joke, perhaps at your expense and if i offended you i apologize, i really didn't mean any disrespect.

the reason i started this post was because i haven't been around the pulse very frequently for a couple months and upon my return i began receiving private messages from mostly new members who felt like they were treated like their questions and concerns weren't important or valid.  i'm not ok with that.  i was once a new member and i know how it feels when you have questions that you must find answers too.  i also know how it feels when your question gets blown off.  i didn't want to start a big mess, i just wanted all the members of this forum (new and old) to stop, count to 10 and make sure that what they're about to post is really the right thing for them to post.  that's all. 

i had no intention of "putting you in your place", i don't even know you.  my comments toward you were simply intended to inform you that since you don't come around too often, you might not be aware of the trends in attitude around the forums.  that's all.  no ill intent i assure you.

it's not about me taking myself seriously.  i felt bad for all the people that came to me because they felt wronged.  i thought my intent here was fairly benign, really didn't think people would get so offended by it (not saying that you are, just talking about everyone here in general).  i just wanted to alert the members of the community to a perceived injustice, because i believe all of us here are caring people and wouldn't want to intentionally hurt other people.  but sometimes we all get caught up in the heated debates around here, it's natural.

so no hard feelings anyone who felt put off by this thread.  i really didn't mean to upset anyone.  apologies if any of you were offended, that wasn't my goal.

My mistake for bringing up mod-forum-nastiness in here, I was a bit frustrated that afternoon, not entirely with Xanth, but with the lack of help and administration we needed behind the scenes. I apologize for that. I've been done with modding for a while and wanted to get some new mods in here before I left, but it doesn't look like it's happening, so I'm out. I will continue on as a member with this new account though. I can't demote myself to member and no one else is around to do it, so I had to delete it and start fresh. Hopefully now that I'm gone as mod they'll get some more on. I just want to help those who are seeking, I don't need to mod to do that. Again guys, sorry for any bad vibes.  8-)

 :cry:

That makes sense stookie.

I'm sorry that it had to come to this though.  :(

I'm gonna definitely follow through with trying my hardest to get Adrian to promote the two we've selected.
And I guess we'll need to make a few more choices in the near future as well.  I'd, personally, like to see at least five active moderators.

I'll push Adrian as much as I can to get this done, I promise. 

And Stookie... your decision to further participate on the forum is most appreciated too.  :)

Thanks Ryan  :-D

Quote from: Stookie_ on May 06, 2011, 10:42:36
My mistake for bringing up mod-forum-nastiness in here, I was a bit frustrated that afternoon, not entirely with Xanth, but with the lack of help and administration we needed behind the scenes. I apologize for that. I've been done with modding for a while and wanted to get some new mods in here before I left, but it doesn't look like it's happening, so I'm out. I will continue on as a member with this new account though. I can't demote myself to member and no one else is around to do it, so I had to delete it and start fresh. Hopefully now that I'm gone as mod they'll get some more on. I just want to help those who are seeking, I don't need to mod to do that. Again guys, sorry for any bad vibes.  8-)

You are a gem. That is very honourable of you. Btw, I thought you were great as a mod and in fact I learnt something from you..."don't rise to the occasion". I'm glad to still have you here though. :-)

If you read Plato's Republic, he explains that positions of leadership should be extremely unattractive and with no perks or benefits, and that therefore you will only attract people who want the position because they are afraid of someone else having it, and doing a much worse job, and causing harm as a result.

In line with this, anytime I have been in a leading position in any organization that was worthwhile or meaningful to me, it has always been tons of work, and not any fun, which is absolutely how it should be.  :wink:

Sometimes I feel like they should make it 80 times less fun to be the president here in the U.S. Like the whitehouse is actually a big hovel made out of dirt blocks and scraps of rubish, and everytime you wakeup, your secretary of state is there waiting and punches you in the face, and then there is a drill sargent in the next room who screams at you for all the mistakes you made, and tells you that you can ring this big bell when you are finally ready to quit.

Or maybe when Congress decides to go to war, they shoot every tenth congressman, so they are sure they really mean it.

Which is another reason why plato hated democracy.

Yeah, Plato liked more of a paternalistic government. He did not go for group rule, since he felt that the only people that should rule are the people best suited to it- his "philospher kings", haha. In theory, if it was thoroughly unatrractive to rule, you would only be recruiting those who feared power falling into the wrong hands otherwise. He also believed in state-censorship too. His version of ideal governemnt probably equates to fascism in many peoples eyes today.  8-)

Quote from: Stillwater on May 06, 2011, 13:43:19
If you read Plato's Republic, he explains that positions of leadership should be extremely unattractive and with no perks or benefits, and that therefore you will only attract people who want the position because they are afraid of someone else having it, and doing a much worse job, and causing harm as a result.

This may be true for those leaders that aren't in it for the power, status, luxury, or fame... but I think if you wish to possess any of these elements (materialist mindset) they will be the "perks or benefits" to counteract the added stress, responsibility and potential for an overall unhappy life. It's that desire to put a legacy ahead of your own well-being.

Quote from: Stillwater on May 06, 2011, 14:20:00
Yeah, Plato liked more of a paternalistic government. He did not go for group rule, since he felt that the only people that should rule are the people best suited to it- his "philospher kings", haha. In theory, if it was thoroughly unatrractive to rule, you would only be recruiting those who feared power falling into the wrong hands otherwise. He also believed in state-censorship too. His version of ideal governemnt probably equates to fascism in many peoples eyes today.  8-)

he also hated democracy because the only votes that actually counted were those of the indecisive middle, who by all accounts would be uninformed and the worst people to make the decisions.  the idea is that say 90% of people are very sure and firm on their vote.  they have done the research, they know the policies and platforms of who they vote for and are educated in such matters.  half of them vote for one candidate, half for the other, which effectively cancels their votes out.  the remaining 10% are those people who really don't know, are on the fence right up until the end, and ultimately make a decision on a whim.  this last 10% are the ones that sway the election one way or the other.  in the end, someone gets voted into office based not on merit and a strong policy, but rather on ambiguous ideals that the indecisive few managed to glean right before the election.

We call those people the "Toaster Vote".  They're the ones who really end up determining the results in any election.

Ann Coulter was where that term came from:
"The swing voters -- I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

I think that is part of the issue too though, politics is not a binary issue, despite what our 2-party system has drilled into people in the U.S., and politicians don't have clear-cut party lines voting records. If they do, they are yes-people who worship the soveigrnity of their controling groups.

Obama, for instance, is far from a party-lines sort of person. His ideas in many areas are really quite conservative, when it comes to military action and corporate law and iterests. At best, he is a middle of the road moderate; he is one of the most plain vanilla politicians out there today. So if you branded yourself a hardcore liberal, that means there still would not have been a candidate that represented your views in the 2008 election. And when you don't have someone who represents your views, you look around at others; you find the other major party's candidate has very little in common with your ideas, and you are placed on the fence about voting for either the generic person your favored party has put up, or throwing away your vote making a statement voting for an unknown party that will get .3% of the vote.

Yes- most of the political ads are aimed at simpletons who have no rational basis for voting for one person or another, and will vote for the person who's ads show them the shiniest lies at the critical moment; but that absolutely does mean once you figure out your core beliefs, you should step out of an evalulative mind-set, and align your votes to the group that best approximates those beliefs. I think a better solution would be to break away from our party-identity system, and have literally 10 or more candidates who have radically different views; that system would have its own issues too, since it would sometimes have potential for giving power to the largest minority of radicals, but it would have many advantages as well.

This political system is useless to me.  I'm not represented by anyone.  I don't vote and I don't involve myself in it, aside from verbally assaulting annoying liberals (it's not even worth talking to the conservatives).  Lol.  jk, i would never do such a thing.

Quote from: Stillwater on May 06, 2011, 13:43:19
Or maybe when Congress decides to go to war, they shoot every tenth congressman, so they are sure they really mean it.

So when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor we should have shot every tenth member of Congress after they voted to declare war?

When terrorists flew airplanes into building and killed thousands of innocent people ... we should have shot every tenth representative after funding the war on terror?

?

Are you a pacifist?

America did both of those things.  If not personally (9/11 was totally done by the US gov), then it was at least instigated by them.  Pearl Harbor is a great example.  Before Japan and the US were even in the war, the US and her allies were making moves to cut off exports to and imports from japan, putting a lock down on Japan. (which we are also doing to China right now with Russia, we are instigating WWIII)  Japan retaliated.  Every time we've been "attacked" we had it coming and then some.  These kinds of attacks give congress justification to start wars, because we are a warring country.  no one makes money during peace-time.  This most recent attack on US soil (9/11) is part of a much bigger plan to take the rights of the US citizens so that a dictatorial state can be instituted and no one can argue when it's time to start WWIII.  I think that tactic was used once before......Nazi Germany....ring any bells (muslims/jews)?

If you have any inkling that your government is there to defend you and your rights, you might as well bend over and kiss your butt goodbye now, cause they already got you.

oooo kaaayyyyy....

"the US and her allies were making moves to cut off exports to and imports from japan, putting a lock down on Japan."

Do you have any idea why they might have been doing this? (Does aggressive Imperial war of expansion sound familiar? Does the "Rape of NanKing" mean anything to you?

QuoteWhen terrorists flew airplanes into building and killed thousands of innocent people ... we should have shot every tenth representative after funding the war on terror?

Every 40th soldier or so on the ground was shot (and hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed and injured), why not shoot some of the guys who sent them? They can dish it out, but they can't take it? Some members of congress are a bit too distanced from the realities they help bring to fruition when they make their decisions.

Quote from: Stillwater on May 06, 2011, 19:39:24
Every 40th soldier or so on the ground was shot (and hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed and injured), why not shoot some of the guys who sent them? They can dish it out, but they can't take it? Some members of congress are a bit too distanced from the realities they help bring to fruition when they make their decisions.

So...
(assuming your bs propaganda is true)
If going to war means people will get hurt,

...

"why not shoot some of the guys who sent them? They can dish it out, but they can't take it?"

Are you kiddin me?!

Other than the fact that that schoolyard logic makes no sense at all...

Do you have a serious question?

60 year old men are usually physically incapable of doing the tasks required of soldiers in battle. Seriously, get a grip here. Many of the men in Congress are retired military. They KNOW what they are asking the troops to do.

Again,

Are you a pacifist?

Quote from: Rudolph on May 06, 2011, 19:06:36
oooo kaaayyyyy....

"the US and her allies were making moves to cut off exports to and imports from japan, putting a lock down on Japan."

Do you have any idea why they might have been doing this? (Does aggressive Imperial war of expansion sound familiar? Does the "Rape of NanKing" mean anything to you?

Are you serious?  You're talking about Japan trying to expand it's empire?!  We're worse than the bloody Romans!  We have a foothold (military base) in nearly every country in the world.  Not to mention economic control as well (not really true, China owns us all which is why the US along with Russia are instigating WWIII with China).

Do you have any idea how america treats the rest of the world?  Firstly, we only do the queen's bidding (we never revolted, it was an act, we are just a british franchise; that's not speculation, the queen owns the land in the US, international banks own our economy, check out the stock market, the US is a publicly traded company as is the UK, not a country.  You are not an individual, you are a product of USA Corp), secondly we rape and pillage more than anyone else.  Just because our masters have developed a more subtle (and devious) way of oppressing the world, doesn't mean we're better, it means we're more sophisticated.

They did it because of our Imperial Expansion, the American Empire (aka The British Empire).  I don't know if you think that the world is balanced and everyone is working toward equality and sovereignty or what, but that is certainly not the plan.  We obviously aren't doing that, we invade at the drop of a hat and we manipulate and instigate to make sure that hat drops when we want it to.  The end game isn't world peace among individual and sovereign nations.  The end game is one world power ruling over all. 

On a side note, this thread is awesome.  I don't even know how we ended up talking global politics!  lol.

It's cool though Rudolph.  I'm sure you can agree, all else aside, global politics are a mess.  When it came down to push and shove, I would probably be just as likely to seek vengeance.  I'd like to think that I wouldn't, but if it's my life or theirs I suppose the natural reaction is toward self preservation.  Anyway, I don't see any "meeting in the middle" on this topic, so we should let it go and part ways as friends.  I bid you good day sir.

"Do you have any idea how america treats the rest of the world?"

Yes.

Better than any other World Power in the history of the world.

that simple.

If you have even half a clue you must admit that that much is blatantly, obviously true. Face facts. I know that the clueless can't deal with this reality but I am (hopefully) not dealing with the totally clueless here.

right?

Hey ruddy, can you ever have a debate without being so aggressive?  :lol:

Quote from: SomeRandom on May 06, 2011, 20:44:07
Hey ruddy, can you ever have a debate without being so aggressive?  :lol:

I like to kick it up a notch.
(but I always keep it civil)

I have no patience for the "let's pretend the ignoratti actually have a valid viewpoint" crew.
(they are destroying Western Civilization)

There really is such a thing as a "fact"

There really is something called truth.
(It is NOT all just a matter of opinion)

Time to man up.

Quote from: Rudolph on May 06, 2011, 21:18:58
(but I always keep it civil)

Let's try to kick the civility up a notch too please.  ;)

We're all friends here. 

That really goes for everyone here.  I know discussions of this nature can get... heated.  But let's just keep in mind that we're all friends.  :)

QuoteIf going to war means people will get hurt,

Yes... yes it does :wink:. Is there really a question, with hundreds of thousands of heavily armed men shooting at one another constantly, that someone will be hurt?

Quote(assuming your bs propaganda is true)

Where does propaganda enter into this? Every 170th soldier that has ever served in the Iraqi and Afghan wars has been killed there(1.3 million have served, 7600 have died); the number of very serious injuries is approxiamately 3 times this number, and around every 40th soldier has been shot. The number of reported civilain deaths between the wars is somewhere between 200,000 to over a million, depending on which reporting body you ask. These stats are presented to us by the U.S. government. These are very cold facts. Propaganda implies incendiary statements with clear intended bias to persuade; presenting the very figures the government has given us can hardly be considered propagand against the government.

Quote60 year old men are usually physically incapable of doing the tasks required of soldiers in battle. Seriously, get a grip here. Many of the men in Congress are retired military. They KNOW what they are asking the troops to do.

It was a joke, keeping in mind the discussion it was contextual to. But that does still does not mean that 60-year-old men should be so capricious with the lives of so many soldiers and civilians, regardless of who they are.

Quote from: SomeRandom on May 06, 2011, 20:44:07
Hey ruddy, can you ever have a debate without being so aggressive?  :lol:

LMAO! :lol:

Quote from: personalreality on May 06, 2011, 20:20:03
I don't even know how we ended up talking global politics!  lol.

I know...

*Points the finger at Stillwater*

:-D

Quote from: Stillwater on May 07, 2011, 03:41:38
Where does propaganda enter into this? Every 170th soldier that has ever served in the Iraqi and Afghan wars has been killed there(1.3 million have served, 7600 have died)[...]. These are very cold facts. Propaganda implies incendiary statements with clear intended bias to persuade; presenting the very figures the government has given us can hardly be considered propagand against the government.
...
It was a joke, keeping in mind the discussion it was contextual to. But that does still does not mean that 60-year-old men should be so capricious with the lives of so many soldiers and civilians, regardless of who they are.

Wow. your own propaganda disproves your own final statement. (Note: propaganda does not necessarily imply anything incendiary, just one-sided). I do not believe the 'civilian casualty' numbers repeated by pacifists.

Every 170th soldier dies? That's like half a percent. I think relative to past wars that is almost zero. Ipso facto, the Congress providing the soldier with the best training and equipment pays off in lower casualty rates. Nothing capricious about that.

Pacifism is tantamount to suicide.

The invasion of Aghanistan was not only COMPLETELY justified but probably necessary. Harboring a terrorist who flies airplanes into buildings is a bad thing to do and if those who do so suffer a karmic backlash... well, so be it. That's the way things are.

There are those who look within in order to find truth and those who turn within as an escape. The truth seekers learn and realize the true nature of planet earth and recognize the inevitability of war. Conflict is built-in to the system.

Yes. War is inevitable with the system we've got! GO RUDOLPH! :evil:

Quote from: Rudolph on May 07, 2011, 10:46:15
Wow. your own propaganda disproves your own final statement. (Note: propaganda does not necessarily imply anything incendiary, just one-sided). I do not believe the 'civilian casualty' numbers repeated by pacifists.

Every 170th soldier dies? That's like half a percent. I think relative to past wars that is almost zero. Ipso facto, the Congress providing the soldier with the best training and equipment pays off in lower casualty rates. Nothing capricious about that.

Pacifism is tantamount to suicide.

The invasion of Aghanistan was not only COMPLETELY justified but probably necessary. Harboring a terrorist who flies airplanes into buildings is a bad thing to do and if those who do so suffer a karmic backlash... well, so be it. That's the way things are.

There are those who look within in order to find truth and those who turn within as an escape. The truth seekers learn and realize the true nature of planet earth and recognize the inevitability of war. Conflict is built-in to the system.

so why wait?  if the inevitability is that war is never-ending for us, lets just blow everyone up right now and save ourselves the trouble.  you and the "terrorists" must have the same holy books of ideology.

brilliant.

LOL :-D

I don't think that's what Rudolph meant. We shouldn't blow ourselves up. UNFORTUNATELY, with the system that we've got, wars work quite well for the powers that be and certain markets are assured to continue. It's just the way things are (at the moment). Perhaps it will change one day but this is a reflection of who the human being is intrinsically. A lot of people believe in capital punishment, for example.

A child can say: "Daddy, can you smack Igor cuz he's just stolen my chocolate egg" - and this is a reflection of the child's feelings. :-D

Quote from: personalreality on May 07, 2011, 11:21:06
so why wait?  if the inevitability is that war is never-ending for us, lets just blow everyone up right now and save ourselves the trouble.  you and the "terrorists" must have the same holy books of ideology.

brilliant.

Sheesh! I did not say "everything blowing up" was inevitable.

How can you extrapolate to "you and the "terrorists" must have the same holy books of ideology" from anything I said? Logically you can't.

I said conflict is inevitable because it is built in to the system. All in the physical universe is a balance of opposing forces, positive vs negative. The negative is not going to go away just because someone wrote a song about it not being real. It IS real and a Deep Denial La-La attitude is not going to make it go away. That is not to say that one can't create micro-spaces of peace in their immediate surroundings. And enlightened societies can minimize negativity in a closed system -- for a period of time.

QuoteQuote from: personalreality on Today at 03:20:03

QuoteI don't even know how we ended up talking global politics!  lol.

I know...

*Points the finger at Stillwater*

Yeah... probably is my fault. :cry:

QuotePacifism is tantamount to suicide.

This is the third or fourth time you have decried pacifism; I have not seen anyone else mention pacisfism or advocate it yet. I am advocating not getting involved in unecessary wars, that does not at all equate to pacisfism, but rather a rejection of a jingoist outlout; you are speaking so adamently about propaganda, and one form of propaganda is to distort the statements and opinions of others into much more extreme versions of what they purport.

QuoteI do not believe the 'civilian casualty' numbers repeated by pacifists.

These are reported by the U.S. government. I don't know who these shadow pacifists are who are curiously enough out to get you. The most liberal studies by groups like the New York Times put the numbers into the millions of civilian casualties; going by the official government numbers (which are the most conservative of all the reports) still brings us to 200,000 or so between the two wars.

QuoteEvery 170th soldier dies? That's like half a percent. I think relative to past wars that is almost zero. Ipso facto, the Congress providing the soldier with the best training and equipment pays off in lower casualty rates. Nothing capricious about that.

Saying that these wars were not as bad as Vietnam or any other recent conflict is not an argument sufficient to justify them. An analogy would be to say that I would not mind getting AIDS since it is not nearly as bad as the Ebola virus. And these are only the U.S. losses we are talking about in this particualr statement. The civilian numbers are horrendous by the most conservative of any reports. Potentially 1 out of every 30 Iraqi civilians has been injured or killed.

Quote from: Rudolph on May 07, 2011, 12:01:50
Sheesh! I did not say "everything blowing up" was inevitable.

How can you extrapolate to "you and the "terrorists" must have the same holy books of ideology" from anything I said? Logically you can't.

I said conflict is inevitable because it is built in to the system. All in the physical universe is a balance of opposing forces, positive vs negative. The negative is not going to go away just because someone wrote a song about it not being real. It IS real and a Deep Denial La-La attitude is not going to make it go away. That is not to say that one can't create micro-spaces of peace in their immediate surroundings. And enlightened societies can minimize negativity in a closed system -- for a period of time.

If war is perpetual and inevitable, the only logic end it total annihilation, simple as that.  So, just cut to the chase.

The commonality between you and the "terrorists" (by the way, to them, you are the terrorist), is that you both seem to believe that killing eachother is the only solution to our discrepancies.  That's a logical conclusion to me.  But I'm coming from a perspective of total non-violence, not because I'm a pacifist hippie, I am just following the old adage "be the change you want to see" and ensuring that my personal environment is a "peaceful" one (as you suggested).   

Stillwater, nearly every reply you made to my quotes was a response to something I never said. I think I mentioned pacifism twice, because your comments sounded like pacifism. But I didn't want to put words in your mouth so I asked you directly, out of courtesy, twice -- and you still won't give a direct answer. Why do you say "I am advocating not getting involved in unecessary wars"? No one is advocating for such insanity. Why advocate against something no one has said?

And I wasn't "speaking so adamantly about propaganda". I merely mentioned that is what it was when I saw you present it. Please reply honestly to what I say and not a gross exaggeration.

QuoteI don't know who these shadow pacifists are who are curiously enough out to get you.

There you go again. I never said anything about any pacifists out to get me. Just fyi - I have noticed that people who reply to something no one has said are talking to themselves about what is bouncing around in their own heads. Now the question arises, "Who are *you* afraid of"?

The New York Times!?  :lol: :lol: :lol:
They are the biggest Left wing-nut, phony, yellow journalistic rag in the country.

QuoteSaying that these wars were not as bad as Vietnam or any other recent conflict is not an argument sufficient to justify them.

There you go again. I did not say that these wars were not as bad as Vietnam or any other recent conflict and I presented no such argument to justify them. I replied to your reported numbers showing extremely low casualty rates. Please reply to what I actually said. Your AIDS/Ebola analogy applies to nothing I have said here.

Civilian casualties are usually going to be high whenever combatants hide behind their women and children after staging an attack. These cowards bring that sort of karma upon themselves and their families by their own choice.

Quote from: personalreality on May 07, 2011, 14:09:14
If war is perpetual and inevitable, the only logic end it total annihilation, simple as that.  So, just cut to the chase.

The commonality between you and the "terrorists" (by the way, to them, you are the terrorist), is that you both seem to believe that killing eachother is the only solution to our discrepancies.  That's a logical conclusion to me.  But I'm coming from a perspective of total non-violence, not because I'm a pacifist hippie, I am just following the old adage "be the change you want to see" and ensuring that my personal environment is a "peaceful" one (as you suggested).   

Please explain how, "the only logic end it total annihilation". I don't think that is true.

Terrorism is the intentional targeting of civilians and innocents and I do not do that. People who climb over village walls and stab a random family to death in the middle of the night, including infants, are terrorists. People who fly airplanes into buildings are terrorists. People who kill a man who would do such things are simply fighting back in self defense. If the terrorist hides behind his wife and they both get killed -- that does not make the self-defender a terrorist. If the wife knew her husband was a psychopathic terrorist and went along with it she is not so innocent.

You are free to be all the change you want to be. But pacifist's die an early death. If you are okay with that, that's your business. But those who force others to be pacifists by law and policy are tyrannically forcing suicidal behavior on an entire community and that is really bad karma.

I'm really trying to keep my cool, but it's people like you that make war inevitable.

Your first reaction to a threatening situation is to kill, to retaliate.

The people that you keep referencing as terrorists are not terrorists.  They are EXACTLY like you.  We instigated, they are defending themselves.  End of story.

And if we are naturally inclined to war, how is the end scenario anything but total annihilation? 

Because we made it this far, war has always been in the universe. Its in animals and always will be.
After all how would we grow if nothing is challenging us?

Quote from: SomeRandom on May 07, 2011, 15:34:15
Because we made it this far, war has always been in the universe. Its in animals and always will be.
After all how would we grow if nothing is challenging us?

WOW!!!!! GENIUS!!!!!! PURE GENIUS!^^^

We need a challenge. That's how we grow.

Good one, vinneh! 8-)

Quote from: personalreality on May 07, 2011, 15:25:11
I'm really trying to keep my cool, but it's people like you that make war inevitable.

Your first reaction to a threatening situation is to kill, to retaliate.

The people that you keep referencing as terrorists are not terrorists.  They are EXACTLY like you.  We instigated, they are defending themselves.  End of story.

And if we are naturally inclined to war, how is the end scenario anything but total annihilation? 

Please keep your cool, since too much denial about the reality of inevitable conflict could drive one into the "Ned Flanders' Syndrome".

Actually it is people like me that prevent war.

Not one thing that I have said indicates that my first reaction in a threatening situation is to kill.

Those who fit the definition of "terrorist" really are terrorists. Deep Denial pacifists may not be able to accept this but that does not change the facts.

Humanity has pretty much done little other than make war. Peace is actually an anomaly. Yet we are still here in ever increasing numbers, despite almost nonstop war. Total annihilation would actually be counter inuitive at this point.

QuoteHumanity has pretty much done little other than make war. Peace is actually an anomaly. Yet we are still here in ever increasing numbers, despite almost nonstop war. Total annihilation would actually be counter inuitive at this point.

Interesting perspective.

I'm sorry that my innate response is to avoid violence at all costs.

That doesn't make me a "deep denial pacifist" and I resent you constantly resorting to calling me that.

I'm not a pacifist.  I'm compassionate and recognize everyone's right to life, even if they don't agree with my ideology.  Everyone has a personal history and unique sets of circumstances that create the person they are.   Those psychopaths you mention, they have personal history that led them to that point, they don't have to be inherently evil.  Maybe they're mentally ill and never received proper treatment?

whatever.

I tried to make amends earlier, we aren't going to agree and we're just going in circles.  Seriously, let's stop and be friends. 

Quote from: personalreality on May 07, 2011, 16:57:03
I'm sorry that my innate response is to avoid violence at all costs.

That doesn't make me a "deep denial pacifist" and I resent you constantly resorting to calling me that.

I'm not a pacifist.  I'm compassionate and recognize everyone's right to life, even if they don't agree with my ideology.  Everyone has a personal history and unique sets of circumstances that create the person they are.   Those psychopaths you mention, they have personal history that led them to that point, they don't have to be inherently evil.  Maybe they're mentally ill and never received proper treatment?

whatever.

I tried to make amends earlier, we aren't going to agree and we're just going in circles.  Seriously, let's stop and be friends. 

If your "innate response is to avoid violence at all costs" then it is a pretty safe guess that you are very close to being a pacifist. "At all costs"... hmmm, that cost gets very high, very fast.

I never called you a deep denial pacifist. But if the shoe fits....

You may not be a pacifist but much of what you say indicates that you are.

I'm compassionate too and recognize everyone's right to life too, until they turn into homicidal psychopathic terrorists, at which point they forfeit that right.

Everyone has a history. That is no excuse to turn into a homicidal psychopath. For every terrorist out there there are a hundred people with a nearly identical history that chose a decent lifestyle. Those who make excuses for the criminals only enable them further. I suspect that that is very bad karma (and not very compassionate).

Let's try to keep the discussion focused around ideas and thoughts, rather than personal conjecture.  :)

I reckon we've all probably been homicidal phycopaths at some point in our previous incarnations.

I dont always manage it but I strive for the same level of compassion that PR talks of.

I mean, say we're all on a path rising closer to god with each incarnation. The most wonderful, advanced, love-filled light being finally gets to the top and merges with god again. He's then got nowhere to go except back down to the very bottom and start the upward journey again. Become the lowest of the low.

Having lost all his memories this wonderful, loving light-being is now acting as a homicidal phycopath because he doesnt know it's wrong anymore. Isnt he now someone to be pittied just like a loved one with alzheimers who doesnt remember who they are anymore.

I try to remember that those behind me on the path were once ahead of me.

QuoteBut I didn't want to put words in your mouth so I asked you directly, out of courtesy, twice -- and you still won't give a direct answer.

Then I apologize. I did not mean to be indirect- I try to address serious questions as I see them.

QuoteWhy do you say "I am advocating not getting involved in unecessary wars"? No one is advocating for such insanity. Why advocate against something no one has said?

This point hinges on whether or not you view the Middle-eastern wars as necessary. Your statement is that no one is arguing for such insanity (meaning arguing for fighting in a war that is not necessary). Obviously no one is going to advocate a war that they themselves consider unecessary, but what a person themselves believes and what may be true in an absolute sense, or in the views of others, are very different things. Consider the situation if I hold the view that the Middle-eastern wars were not necessary, and you hold that they are. Then in this situation, from my perspective you would indeed be advocating for a war I deemed unnecessary. Since most people believe in the opinion they support publically, then what is required is merely a difference in opinion and perspective for this to be a true statement (that from one perspective you are arguing for a war that is unnecessary). I did not mention the perspective part, since perspective is inherent in any situation in our reality, but if you don't notice this fact about perspective, it is possible to mis-interpret the statement, I suppose.

QuoteThere you go again. I never said anything about any pacifists out to get me.

It was a joke. You have mentioned pacifisim and your distaste for it perhaps a dozen times at this point. I was making a joke about the fact that no one has yet come out and identified themselves as a pacifist, but that you still mention it countless times. It was not intended as a serious remark.

QuoteThere you go again. I did not say that these wars were not as bad as Vietnam or any other recent conflict and I presented no such argument to justify them.

I think the common thread in all of the points you made this post was in not recognizing context and implication in statements. You never mentioned the Vietnam conflict per se, but notice you did say this:

QuoteEvery 170th soldier dies? That's like half a percent. I think relative to past wars that is almost zero.

Now when you make a comparative statement like this, saying that the percentage of deaths is almost zero, it only makes sense in context of comparison. For instance, if I said every 170th person on earth dies every minute, it would not make sense to retort that this was almost zero, since at that rate, everyone on earth is dead in under 3 hours or so. So to say that 1 in 170 is near zero in the case of war casualties, there must be another conflict you are comparing it to as a baseline, and if not Vietname per se, some other similar large-causualty conflict is implied. So while you did not mention a certain conflict, the structure of your argument necessarily made it implicit.

Quote from: Rudolph on May 07, 2011, 17:15:42
If your "innate response is to avoid violence at all costs" then it is a pretty safe guess that you are very close to being a pacifist. "At all costs"... hmmm, that cost gets very high, very fast.

I never called you a deep denial pacifist. But if the shoe fits....

You may not be a pacifist but much of what you say indicates that you are.

I'm compassionate too and recognize everyone's right to life too, until they turn into homicidal psychopathic terrorists, at which point they forfeit that right.

Everyone has a history. That is no excuse to turn into a homicidal psychopath. For every terrorist out there there are a hundred people with a nearly identical history that chose a decent lifestyle. Those who make excuses for the criminals only enable them further. I suspect that that is very bad karma (and not very compassionate).

karma shmarma. 

you continue to ignore my attempt at amends, but if you plan to continue to post on this forum about other topics, i'd like us to be friends.  so, just as a final statement, i harbor no ill will toward you friend.  we're cool.  i look forward to future conversations with you.

Wow. This thread is unreal. Feels a bit like a test by the mods. :D

I swear I started it with the best of intentions.

How are you manwesulimo2004?  haven't seen you around in a bit.

QuoteSo while you did not mention a certain conflict, the structure of your argument necessarily made it implicit.

No, it didn't. I had clearly made a general reference to previous 'wars' (note the plural).
You just made a bad assumption.

As far as unnecessary wars go, why don't you just ask me?
But "necessary" may be the wrong word for evaluating the act of war because I think the data required to arrive at that conclusion is usually not available. Maybe you could give an example of a 'necessary' war and explain how you arrived at that conclusion.

QuoteBut "necessary" may be the wrong word for evaluating the act of war because I think the data required to arrive at that conclusion is usually not available.

That is certainly true. We don't have the "God's eye" perspective of the situation that develops decades later at the time it would be critical to make a decision. World War ll, which is the classical example most cite for the "just war", was not known to be the same situation in the 30's when it was building as we later found it to be. We had general notions that Hitler wanted to promote a powerful campaign of eugenics, but it is debatable how much of the holocaust was know about before it was encountered first hand; most of the officers invading the German camps had heard intimations of what might have been happening, but were not expecting the enormity of what they actually encountered. When the full picture is known, we see that Hitler intended to exterminate all of Africa as well, and then precede on to Asia South America; it was doubtful whether they would have even spared the Japanese.

QuoteMaybe you could give an example of a 'necessary' war and explain how you arrived at that conclusion.

The criteria I would use would be an ethical evaluation. What are the costs of the war we are considering, in human terms? What does our current data tell us will likely happen should we not become involved? What action would our potential opponents be allowed to take? How many non-offending parties (our soldiers, as opposed to those instigating the particular conflict, if it was pre-emptive, and civilian bystanders and targetd victims) will come to harm as a result of going to war, vs staying out of it? Will the potential opponent be placed in a position to cause significant harm in the future if left to their own means?

These factors must be weighed from an ethical standard for me, and we must choose the path that will cause the least harm, and potential for future harm to parties which did not instigate violence. Sometimes that means war, sometimes that means staying out. In the example of the Middle-Eastern wars, the harm inflicted upon civilians is far in excess of any projected harm those we claim to pursue have shown themselves capable of, and it is debateable whether our prescence there has even deterred them anyhow. You can make the argument that we might not have forseen that prior to taking action, but having the facts we have now, we have far from hastened our withdrawal.



(http://www.prosebeforehos.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/chart1.jpg)


If pressed to think of a war that best meets the standards that would ethicly dictate when we should be involved, I would choose the Sudan genocides. Here is an example of a mass killing of 400,000 or more of an ethnic group by un-resisted agressors, and we have provided the most passive and impotent assistence imaginable.

Quote from: Stillwater on May 07, 2011, 21:08:05
If pressed to think of a war that best meets the standards that would ethicly dictate when we should be involved, I would choose the Sudan genocides. Here is an example of a mass killing of 400,000 or more of an ethnic group by un-resisted agressors, and we have provided the most passive and impotent assistence imaginable.

Then the Iraq war would qualify as an ethical war. Saddam murdered 400,000 of his own people by some estimates and the killing was ongoing. More mass graves continue to be found. Who knows how high this number may rise?

Yes, it defintly can be argued that the Iraq war began on just footing; Saddam was not a nice guy. But it did not need to continue for a decade, I don't see anything constructive arising out of anything past the first months.

Quote from: personalreality on May 07, 2011, 20:16:54
How are you manwesulimo2004?  haven't seen you around in a bit.

Oh wow. Didn't think that would be noticed.

I've taken a break from AP attempts. I had been trying for almost a year and it got frustrating because I didn't seem to making any progress. I'm probably just not ready for it at this point. I've realised that "spiritual development" (or whatever you want to call it) in a more general sense is more important than flying through outer space in my sleep so I'm trying to realign my priorities, seeing Astral Projection more as a symptom of (and tool for) spiritual progress rather than the actual goal.

I started reading Knowledge of the Higher Worlds and Its Attainment by Rudolf Steiner (Stookie recommended it to me) and it left a great impression on me. It seems to be one of the most profound books I've ever read (haven't read many though ^^) and it really motivated me to work on myself. And that appeared to have a really good effect on my life for about three months. Unfortunately the progress I thought I had made seems to have diminished over the last two months or so. I always seem to lapse between ups and downs. I'm not a very disciplined person so it's difficult to get any form of consistency into my life. At the moment I'm in a phase where I hardly meditate (or take time for myself) and end up consuming all the time. Usually I'm reading or watching films or listening to music, etc., etc..

So actually, despite (or because of?) the fact I've tried to make spiritual progress more of a priority in my life I've become caught up in physical consumerism instead.

Sorry for going off-topic.

Quote from: manwesulimo2004 on May 08, 2011, 09:31:53
Oh wow. Didn't think that would be noticed.

I've taken a break from AP attempts. I had been trying for almost a year and it got frustrating because I didn't seem to making any progress. I'm probably just not ready for it at this point. I've realised that "spiritual development" (or whatever you want to call it) in a more general sense is more important than flying through outer space in my sleep so I'm trying to realign my priorities, seeing Astral Projection more as a symptom of (and tool for) spiritual progress rather than the actual goal.

I started reading Knowledge of the Higher Worlds and Its Attainment by Rudolf Steiner (Stookie recommended it to me) and it left a great impression on me. It seems to be one of the most profound books I've ever read (haven't read many though ^^) and it really motivated me to work on myself. And that appeared to have a really good effect on my life for about three months. Unfortunately the progress I thought I had made seems to have diminished over the last two months or so. I always seem to lapse between ups and downs. I'm not a very disciplined person so it's difficult to get any form of consistency into my life. At the moment I'm in a phase where I hardly meditate (or take time for myself) and end up consuming all the time. Usually I'm reading or watching films or listening to music, etc., etc..

So actually, despite (or because of?) the fact I've tried to make spiritual progress more of a priority in my life I've become caught up in physical consumerism instead.

Sorry for going off-topic.

Maybe you could help brainwash yourself to be more motivated, like what ads do. Stick up some printed paper or drawn or whatever signs that have words on them that could help you remember what you want to be doing. You dont even have to pay attention to them if its at least hanging up somewhere in your house you're frequently at

Quote from: manwesulimo2004 on May 08, 2011, 09:31:53
Oh wow. Didn't think that would be noticed.

I've taken a break from AP attempts. I had been trying for almost a year and it got frustrating because I didn't seem to making any progress. I'm probably just not ready for it at this point. I've realised that "spiritual development" (or whatever you want to call it) in a more general sense is more important than flying through outer space in my sleep so I'm trying to realign my priorities, seeing Astral Projection more as a symptom of (and tool for) spiritual progress rather than the actual goal.

I started reading Knowledge of the Higher Worlds and Its Attainment by Rudolf Steiner (Stookie recommended it to me) and it left a great impression on me. It seems to be one of the most profound books I've ever read (haven't read many though ^^) and it really motivated me to work on myself. And that appeared to have a really good effect on my life for about three months. Unfortunately the progress I thought I had made seems to have diminished over the last two months or so. I always seem to lapse between ups and downs. I'm not a very disciplined person so it's difficult to get any form of consistency into my life. At the moment I'm in a phase where I hardly meditate (or take time for myself) and end up consuming all the time. Usually I'm reading or watching films or listening to music, etc., etc..

So actually, despite (or because of?) the fact I've tried to make spiritual progress more of a priority in my life I've become caught up in physical consumerism instead.

Sorry for going off-topic.

Me and Fourthdimension were just discussing the same topic on the Facebook Astral Pulse page.  Sometimes you have to take a break from AP and do something else.  I shared the story of my first successful exit.  I practiced every day for 6 months with no success.  I took a couple months off and as soon as I tried again I had my first exit.  And you're right, there is more to spiritual growth than just AP practice.  It is a tool, not a goal.  I commend your decision, many people have trouble letting go and moving on to something new, even when that is what they need more than anything else.

Stookie said the same thing about steiner's book.  I got it for free on my kindle but I haven't read it yet.  I will eventually.

It's good to see you.  :-)

Quote from: SomeRandom on May 08, 2011, 11:21:40
Maybe you could help brainwash yourself to be more motivated, like what ads do. Stick up some printed paper or drawn or whatever signs that have words on them that could help you remember what you want to be doing. You dont even have to pay attention to them if its at least hanging up somewhere in your house you're frequently at

That's a good idea. Thinking about it: Things were easier while I listened to so much Tool. ^^

Tool rocks! And A Perfect Circle! :-P

Mer De Nom rocks, all the other APC albums were bad.

Mer De Nom is still one of the only albums that I love every song on it.  That's rare for me, but every song on that album was great.  I don't even listen to rock music anymore and that is still one of my all time favorites.

I have to say that Mer De Nom is my fave too. What's your fave Tool album?

Don't like Tool.

Well, I shouldn't say that.  I don't dislike Tool, but I never really got into them either.  They were too "hard rock" for my sensibilities.  I can enjoy a tool song nowadays though, because I recognize the musical genius involved in that band.

Emotive is my favorite APC cd, Lateralus and Aenima is my favorite tool cd
:-D

Quote from: SomeRandom on May 08, 2011, 16:02:09
Emotive is my favorite APC cd, Lateralus and Aenima is my favorite tool cd
:-D

Lateralus and Aenima are my fave too! :wink:

Quote from: personalreality on May 08, 2011, 16:00:22
Don't like Tool.

Well, I shouldn't say that.  I don't dislike Tool, but I never really got into them either.  They were too "hard rock" for my sensibilities.  I can enjoy a tool song nowadays though, because I recognize the musical genius involved in that band.

You seem like a bit of a pussy when it comes to music. :-D

I don't really like hard rock either; I don't think it comes down to "being a pussy" so much as liking things a little smoother. There are some rare bands like Led Zeppelin and Metallica which actually write very strong compositions that sound really cool even outside of a rock setting (Metallica's music has been transposed to two concert harps by a couple women calling the project "Harptallica", haha). When it comes to contemporary, I like Folksy stuff, like the Fleet foxes or Beirut, but I normally go for a sound that is based in the mid 70's otherwise (Elton Jon, early Springsteen, King Crimson, Steely Dan, Neil Young, The Doors, etc).

Steely Dan arouses me in a most delightful way.  I love them.

You might like this guy Stillwater,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gqh4e1S6j0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gqh4e1S6j0)

it's a little more funk/soul, but i like most of what you listed, so maybe you'll get down on this too.

QuoteI like Folksy stuff, like the Fleet foxes or Beirut, but I normally go for a sound that is based in the mid 70's otherwise (Elton Jon, early Springsteen, King Crimson, Steely Dan, Neil Young, The Doors, etc).

Good selection there.

King Crimson, heh. Pandora introduced me to that group when it saw my first picks. I was strangely attracted to them too.

For those who need to rock a little harder the hardest I can serve up is the better effort from Jethro Tull;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAkSIwaUaNc&feature=related

Pftt Led Zeppelin, thieves.

:-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhKUfiohxEY

QuoteYou might like this guy Stillwater,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gqh4e1S6j0

it's a little more funk/soul, but i like most of what you listed, so maybe you'll get down on this too. 

I liked the sound as well, lots of retro instrumentation. Reminds me a bit of Blue States, another newish band that uses a lot of vintage synth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cljeFBk1dg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cljeFBk1dg)

And the Fleet Foxes just released their best album to date. Here was one of the better tracks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_XXismYUZs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_XXismYUZs)

QuoteKing Crimson, heh. Pandora introduced me to that group when it saw my first picks. I was strangely attracted to them too.

YES. Jethro Tull is solid Brit-rock.

Perhaps our first unequivocal agreement in this topic, Rudolph  :wink:

My favorite track from King Crimson is probably "Exiles", off of Lark's Tongue in Aspic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWAbNIMsveI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWAbNIMsveI)

This track tells an excellent story, and the violin solos are sublime.

Their pre-80's stuff is almost all good too. During the 80's their sound got very cacophonus, and busy-sounding, but they still made an occasional good bit evey now and then.

Glad the topic changed, lol. I love music to fanatic levels.

QuotePftt Led Zeppelin, thieves.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhKUfiohxEY

Yeah, they were some of the biggest "borrowers", and also one of the biggest sources for other "borrowings". I guess they were playing with some memorable tunes. Many good things you can hear will have turned up in some form in the past, and will resurface in the future too.

Another thing like that I can think of is Pink Floyd's "Echos" supposedly Inspiring a theme to The Phantom of the Opera, which is hilarious if it is true.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S3fpgrZ9ys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S3fpgrZ9ys)

Led Zepplin just re-made old blues songs. Same with Rolling Stones. And there ain't nothin wrong with that because rock wouldn't have become what it did without the blues. I love the blues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpzxeF_1BzU

I love the blues too, particularly Freddy King and Lonnie Johnson.

Sorry to see you quit being a mod Stookie.  :|

Hope everything works out okay!

Quote from: Lexy on May 10, 2011, 19:06:58
Sorry to see you quit being a mod Stookie.  :|

Nothing to be sorry about, this is a good thing. At least I feel good about it. :D

Quote from: Stookie_ on May 11, 2011, 11:41:40
Nothing to be sorry about, this is a good thing. At least I feel good about it. :D

OK, as long as you are happy  :-)