Taking Salvia is insane

[Tiny]

Dear folks,

do you not find it amazing how the most dissociative drug has become a quite hip party highlight and is actually legal in many states - a drug that even drug veterans say is completly off the scale compared to the all the other commonly known hallucinogens that are widely illegal across the planet?
Why LSD and shroom videos are prohibited to put out on youtube but then one can watch thousands of videos showing individuals consuming salvia divinorum, seeing people end up screaming, losing body control and hitting their heads onto the floor and struggling on the ground is really beyond me... I have yet to see someone claim that he has had a positive experience from it but I have seen someone saying that he's never had a positive one.
Ironically, salvia divinorum is used with even less caution than any other hallucinogen, people even use it to prank another (like passing it on and saying it is regular cannabis).

What's wrong with this picture?

[WASD]

From my understanding it takes time for a new drug to become illegal. Lots of tests have to be done etc. Thats why some dangerous drugs are legal while many not-so-dangerous drugs are illegal.

[cpt. picard]

I tryed Salvia once, but it was only 5x (weakest kind I think). It wasn't a negative experience, I just felt incredibly weird and laughed uncontrollably for about 10 minutes then felt extremely tired. I've heard experiences of people forgetting they smoked it right after and tripping out and people forgetting what theyre clothes were and trying to rip them off lol. Anyways, I would think it is not illegal because it is not used widespread or addicting like other drugs. Perhaps the plant also has some other application.

[no_leaf_clover]

What's wrong with this picture?  You mean complaining about something other people are doing,  that is completely non-toxic and safe with the right precaution or supervision?  It's one thing to choose not to do it yourself but why complain about it when others choose to,  or because they make a video about it that you CHOOSE to watch?  Why do you feel the need to be everybody's Nanny?

I've done it and while I wouldn't call it a pleasant feeling,  I have enjoyed the experience itself as mind-expanding (or mind-blowing more like it).  They made it illegal in my state and I don't like that at all.  I enjoyed doing it maybe once or twice a week and did it responsibility.

[cpt. picard]

I suppose pranking someone with salvia would be pretty wrong lol. In the end no one should have the right to tell you what drugs you can and cannot do, its like Ron Paul says, drugs should be treated as a social and medical problem as opposed to a legal one. The laws just send a harmless pot smoker to prison, where he becomes a hardened and more efficient criminal and starts selling coke or some dangerous drug when he gets out. Sending people to prison for drugs is nothing but counterproductive.

[Xanth]

I suppose pranking someone with salvia would be pretty wrong lol. In the end no one should have the right to tell you what drugs you can and cannot do, its like Ron Paul says, drugs should be treated as a social and medical problem as opposed to a legal one. The laws just send a harmless pot smoker to prison, where he becomes a hardened and more efficient criminal and starts selling coke or some dangerous drug when he gets out. Sending people to prison for drugs is nothing but counterproductive.

I couldn't agree more.

[personalreality]

Tiny, check out a podcast called stormy weather

[personalreality]

Sorry i didn't elaborate, I sent that from my phone.

I don't know if the older episodes of the show are still up, but it was a show by a guy named Jason Horsley, who called himself Aeolus Kephas.  In some of the older episodes he talked about his experiences with Salvia and said it was nearly as mind altering as DMT.  He had some very profound experiences on it, like heavy duty dissociative experiences.  Out of body type experiences. 

He said he had very positive experiences.

Supervision is necessary though.

[Tiny]

Apparently, on salvia divinorum one loses mental and physical control over the body. When your energy bodies are forcibly loosened from your physical body by drugs, this means that this body is as foreign to you as it is to the next ghost which means that if astral beings know how to take hold of your body, they will take over, stealing your body. This happens by general anaesthetics administered in hospitals all the time, look up "surgery personality change". Be warned!
I will deeply regret having started this thread If it ends up encouraging people to use salvia divinorum.


kind regards,

Paul

[Xanth]

I will deeply regret having started this thread If it ends up encouraging people to use salvia divinorum.[/color][/b]

I think that's the general idea behind why we're not supposed to talk "drugs" on Astral Pulse in the first place.
If someone does... they can then point to the Astral Pulse as "where" they found the information.  Adrian then becomes liable.

[Tiny]

I think that's the general idea behind why we're not supposed to talk "drugs" on Astral Pulse in the first place.
If someone does... they can then point to the Astral Pulse as "where" they found the information.  Adrian then becomes liable.

needless to say the US legal system is absolutely insane, what they're doing is like A) says: "there have been people jumping to suicide from this cliff over there" and then B) jumps from that cliff and then A) gets charged for B)'s responsibility to take care of himself. It's absolutely ludicrous.


kind regards,

Paul

[personalreality]

There are legality issue, but on the flip side are personal ethical concerns.  What if someone is planning to use salvia (bad example cause its legal, though not in my state) and they are uninformed.  A post like this could give them the info they need to make a better decision.  I know Adrian has to be concerned with legal ramifications but I'm more concerned with  my fellow humans being as aware of what they're getting into as possible.

[Psilibus]

I used to be a landscaper in Portland Oregon back in the early 1990's. I planted untold numbers of salvia divinorum. It is a beautiful groundcover. All the while I knew of its potential but you wouldn't catch me putting it in my body. Using any substance will get you nowhere. It has nothing to do with your spirit, it screws up your BRAIN! You need your brains peoples!

[Infinite.Dreams]

on such a big deep forum not one intelligent post about salvia divinorum? I did not expect that.
however some report having had sucessful meaningful experiences, salvia has been puzzling to me for the most part. Some aspects of the experience are hardly enjoyable, at times absurd, but my reasearch has proved that it is a real place , the force of collective consciousness, grids of units of consciousness of the uncreated mass, that dimension responds through chains and structures of resonance with thought communication. On salvia i would find myself surrounded by marching dancing depicting all at once , beings of collective conciousness beyond the veil of the world (that ripples and glows at the onset of experienece before it all turns unrecognizable).
Once i was greeted by a parade of gnomes.
but most of the times it's hard to even be sure of what it really was or the possibilities, the usual disclaimer of the salvia experience is that before you even try to define what it is you think you're seing and understanding it will leave you empty handed with a feeling like it was never meant to make any sense. It lacks the cosmic euphoria of other entheogens, it has more of a dark elemental feel.

[personalreality]

That's why I recommended the Stormy Weather Podcast.

I've heard that Salvia is right up there with DMT in dissociative visionary experiences.

Never done it though.  Well not in sufficient concentration to have the appropriate effect.

[MissTendana]

Hey, man, I've tried this. Unfortunately, it was just the plain ol' dried leaves (it was like smoking something you'd rake out of your yard!) and didn't do a lot. I felt funny for a bit, the music suddenly involved everything around me, then it was gone and I got all pissy and such.

Maybe it just wasn't strong enough...

[personalreality]

it wasn't, you got the cheap stuff.  that's what i've smoke too and nothing happened.

they say you have the get the highly concentrated stuff thats like $60 a gram or something.

[Psilibus]

The chemicals present in "drugs" and "herbals" only disrupt your biological "brain". They have absolutely nothing to do with you "mind". Nothing, nada, nowhere, no way. Go ahead and delude yourselves, I sure as hell did. That was twenty years ago. Since then I have solidified my relationship with the mind and it is much more of a trip than any salvia, weed, acid, shroom, opium, coca derivative or ecstatic 5htp stimulant. Go ahead. Smoke and drink and pop or shoot and see what you end up with.

I didn't realize I was dealing with teenagers on this forum. I had hoped for so much more.

There is a greater cause in this universe and it has nothing to do with communing with plant spirits. They will teach you nothing. Read ALL of Castenada. Then read his wife's version of things. He wrote a great set of stories. She is the only one who made sense.

[CFTraveler]

"Read ALL of Castenada. Then read his wife's version of things"- I think I read some about what she reported.  However, I'm too lazy and tired today to do research.  Could you post a link to any books, or articles?  Pleez?  Thnx.

[personalreality]

Psilibus,

I'm 24 and a recovering heroin addict and if i were someone capable of being offended I might be offended by your statement.  I learn A LOT about human behavior through heroin addiction.  A LOT.  I also learned a lot about non-attachment. 

I understand and agree with what you're saying to a degree, but if castaneda is your only evidence then you ought to do some reasearch into REAL shamanic practices, much of which doesn't revolve around the plants, though they are a part of a comprehensive practice.

I agree though that strengthening one's mind is a more effective practice, but that doesn't completely discount the experience of drug use.
I don't mean to promote drug use, it's not a good idea to use drugs.

BUT, having been through the experience I think you're out of line in saying that the experience is useless.

[Xanth]

Drugs are bad... Mmmmkay? 

[Stookie]

No matter how many times it is said that this forum is about learning actual OBE/AP skills, the drug topic always comes up. When I first saw this thread I figured it was just to start an argument. I couldn't think of another reason because this isn't what we're about.

I'm leaving it open so we can hopefully get some castaneda links. Eh?

[Psilibus]

Personalreality -

If I offend then please forgive me. I have worked in psychiatry since 1998. I am a psych certified registered nurse who has worked specifically in acute inpatient care. I have witnessed more than my share of devastation related to any and all forms of substance use. My passion is to encourage people that anything they might think they can experience using a substance they can experience with their mind alone. That being said, I did not find this particular passion of mine without my own use of substances. Twenty-plus years of marijuana use, more acid trips than I can count, cubensis and psilcybins aplenty, opium, peyote, ayahuasca, cocaine, meth (didn't like that thank GOD), salvia divinorum, various pharmaceutical narcotics and more than enough alcohol to float anyones boat. SO, since you brought it up, I thought I'd own up to my own history. I read all Carlos Casteneda books and have participated in American Indian shamanic rituals with a friend. I have read books on South American shamanism and Russian shamanism. I have read many books on Wicca. I fully appreciate the entheogenic experience. Psilibus is a name I came up with about fifteen years ago, it is my silly way of combining psilocybin and syllabus - "enththeogenic curriculum". Anyway, to make this long story short, I have overcome (most) of my addictive predilections over the last ten years and am now pursuing enlightenment au-natural. Don't get me wrong, substances can be dangerous and ruin parts of your life better left intact but if that's your trip then by all means help yourself. I think its a dead end road with attractive scenery.

Do we understand each other? I meant only the best.

[Psilibus]

I don't have any Castaneda links at the moment. I just have the books. The book by his wife is called "A Magical Journey With Carlos Castaneda" by Margaret Runyan Castenada, Millenia Press 1997. Another interesting read is "Border Crossings" by Donald Lee Williams, Inner City Books 1981. The Williams book is a "psychological perspective on Carlos Castaneda's path of knowledge". Williams is a Jungian Analyst. I have always enjoyed the Jungian perspective on psychology.

Sorry, no links. Haven't been into the don Juan thing for quite some time actually. It was more of a late seventies/early eighties pursuit.

[Psilibus]

Pardon me but one more comment please...

It has been my experience that "guides" frown on substance use and may limit your exposure to the greater realm. But that is MY experience.