The Ego.

[Killa Rican]

I often lurk through a lot of materialist and 'atheist' websites just for fun,and to adapt to some of their arguments.What I noticed is most of the hardcore and skeptical individuals not only scoff at the idea of metaphysical substance, they also dont want there to be any, as opposed to being on the fence or "wishing" there were one.

So they dont want "God" to exist. They dont want spiritual beings to exist. They dont  want there to be an afterlife, they dont even want a Soul.

I've come across this alot, and thought about it. But what leads some people to come to this conclusion in their lives? Many have different preferences yes, after they shed this body, they will return to their souls true realization and purpose after all.

What downsides to a metaphysical reality can there be? The only argument i've ever heard was "Living forever will be boring, and those who believe in an afterlife are afraid of ceasing to exist."

I can understand SOME of their arguments and why they think the way they do at this time.

I will never understand the nihilistic attitude of some people.

[Xanth]

What lead people to come to these conclusions?

Simple...

FEAR

What fear?  Pick your poison... they fear it.

[Killa Rican]

What lead people to come to these conclusions?

Simple...

FEAR

What fear?  Pick your poison... they fear it.

I agree. But on the other hand, they will think nothing more holds our "belief" then the " fear"  of dying. But eh, If only they knew...  

They are either getting too 'comfortable' with this physical reality, fear change,  Or maybe some people are just fine with thinking there is nothing else out there to the point they are willing to downright refuse otherwise? hmmm...

[Lionheart]

They are either getting too 'comfortable' with this physical reality, fear change,  Or maybe some people are just fine with thinking there is nothing else out there to the point they are willing to downright refuse otherwise? hmmm...

Either way, they are in for a rude awakening! 

[kailaurius]

Either way, they are in for a rude awakening! 

Or maybe a pleasant surprise. 

[Volgerle]

Fear is one reason, but maybe not the only one. I noted another one. Somehow they (esp. the younger ones, teens to twentysomethings) seem to have a kind of obsession with truculency to societal norms. This kind of 'rebellionism' might be normal behaviour at this age though.

Many have had religious education somehow somewhere (in school as in my country, or at home locations) and it is a kind of rebellion against the elders or against society's norms that 'having a religion' is a normal thing to have as citizen (somehow, and mostly the country's dominant creed).

For some, the ego (mind the thread title!) asserts itself also by a pointed division from mainstream society. That's why they gain sth from it. Subvesiveness has its attraction also by becoming attractive by it. Others of course, succumb to these values and it is also ego-based: the ego of being "right", meaning: with the majority which in their view should always be right ....

Thus they (the subversive) reject everything that has to do with this 'prescribed' religion. However, it's not just the official religion and its dogma per se, but anything that comes near it in terms of metaphysics: including the larger reality, psi & paranormal (even serious scientific research is scoffed at), spirituality (in raw form), esoterics, new age, concepts of the soul, afterlife, ghosts, etc.

And some are overly consistent with it. Some of the older (over thirties) just kept up their stubborn- and closed-mindedness, maybe because they are somehow still 'young and rebellious at heart' or just out of habit. Some because they even can profit from it, such as the pro skeptics or pro atheists like Randi, Dawkins, Shermer, Blackmore and others. Where there is an audience you can gain fame and sell books!

The irony is that with their being so consistent and their continuous flocking together as self-proclaimed 'skeptics', 'debunkers' or 'atheists' in societies and communities, they create a religion for themselves. They just don't notice it. Or don't want it since it's their self-conception that they're the ones 'above' the lunatic superstitious / spiritual / religious guys. But they are those who are actually superstitious the most. That's the sweet irony of it.

B. Haisch, astrophysicist, put exactly this issue very nicely in his book:

"In their view, there is nothing beyond the here-and-now; wheen you body dies, you are gone forever. If you point out that his seems fundamentally unsatisfactory, the best they have to offer is the tough-love maxim: 'Get over it and move on.'
The stoicism of those who believe this and still manage to live good, decent lives without promise of reward in the hereafter is, perhaps, admirable. And I freely grant that even reductionism is preferable to belief that slaughter and destruction in the name of a vengeful God will result in immediate passage to heaven. But I think it is wrong nonetheless. In fact, in its most rigid form, reductionism becomes essentially a matter of faith and simply another kind of orthodoxy that goes by the name of scientism.
The word 'science' is used today in two very different ways - in the service of epistomology, which is a way of investigating reality, and in the service of ontology, which is a conceptualization of reality itself. It is in this second sense that dogmatic science is invoked today and should more properly be regarded as the religion of scientism. While scientific orthodoxy boasts no churches, it is nonetheless a faith - a faith whose ritual is skepticism. Indeed those skeptics who scoff loudest at al things spiritual hold professional gatherings that bear an ironic resemblance to revival meetings, at which they pump up the faithful to go forth and combat anything that smacks of non-reductionism. I contend, on the other hand, that, although the material investigations of science are absolutely correct, they only penetrate the lowest level of reality - that of the physical and the material."

source: http://books.google.de/books?id=cC-O7Ug-lmQC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=%22In+their+view,+there+is+nothing+beyond+the+here-and-now%22&source=bl&ots=rh3s3tlLbf&sig=17BOK9vw53OjNgrWQQ6WhT0nKFg&hl=de&sa=X&ei=fEX8T_OiHIfvsgbc-cCHBQ&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22In%20their%20view%2C%20there%20is%20nothing%20beyond%20the%20here-and-now%22&f=false

[Stookie_]

Nice post Volgerle.

I grew up in a strict christian household and when I realized as an adolescent that, hey, it might not all be correct, I felt like a ball and chain had been cut off. I can easily see from here how a young person in the same situation, as their ego is in development, move from the trap of religion to the trap of materialism. Like Volgerle said, it's rebellion and feels like freedom, and materialism doesn't have so many rules to live by and is more supported by modern society. And then you have the public school system on top of that...

[Anonymouse]

Well, I've been sceptical for my entire youth, and I agree with Volgerle. I've grown up around catholicism, I believed that the ones who believe in God, was basically because of their fear to accept you are only a living being, that will eventually die as you were born.

I was completely wrong, I do believe in God, but in a different way as what I thought God was all about. I can't even explain it my self, I'm still discovering, learning, definitely knowing my own self in this universe, in this time, and in consequence, God.

Even though I was sceptical, I respected anyone with beliefs in spirituality, and was always curious about it. I used to have this long conversations with a friend of mine who believed. Now the same, but from the other side, respecting people who are not believing, because they haven't discovered it yet, it's about time. A person situation in life isn't to be jugded, comprehension, acceptance, and then trying to show them my way with no expectations, but to share what I feel.

[Barnowl]

Well, I've been sceptical for my entire youth, and I agree with Volgerle. I've grown up around catholicism, I believed that the ones who believe in God, was basically because of their fear to accept you are only a living being, that will eventually die as you were born.

I was completely wrong, I do believe in God, but in a different way as what I thought God was all about. I can't even explain it my self, I'm still discovering, learning, definitely knowing my own self in this universe, in this time, and in consequence, God.

Even though I was sceptical, I respected anyone with beliefs in spirituality, and was always curious about it. I used to have this long conversations with a friend of mine who believed. Now the same, but from the other side, respecting people who are not believing, because they haven't discovered it yet, it's about time. A person situation in life isn't to be jugded, comprehension, acceptance, and then trying to show them my way with no expectations, but to share what I feel.

lovely response. I was brought up a Roman Catholic, and when I discovered Spirituality, it just made sense.

What did it for me...the expression, 'the fear of god'

When I was a teen, I just didn't it. All powerful and loving, yet you had to worship and, 'fear' him. Sounded completely contradictory.
Went to church more like a chore than any reason. Yet, when I became spiritual (almost a decade later) began to have a new respect.
I still sometimes get angry at people and their egos (with their arrogance) but thankfully the anger is dying away, and is now being replaced with love and compassion.

We're very lucky

[Anonymouse]

I still sometimes get angry at people and their egos (with their arrogance) but thankfully the anger is dying away, and is now being replaced with love and compassion.

oh my friend, I know that feeling. It is hard sometimes to look at people and look at the big picture, see why they are as they are in that moment
Some people get on my nerve as well, but we'll get there eventually. 

[Bordmb]

I'm an atheist.