The Eternal Question:Can men and women be friends?

[Nayru]

I consider three of my friends as my best friends. I can share everything with them. Two of them are male, one is female. I am a girl, btw.

I have never had any feelings for both of my male best friends, and they have neither. And we will probably never have either. When friendship gives birth to a relationship, the friendship will fade, even when the relationship has been broken up. 'We will still be friends'. Everybody knows that's bovine excrement. A girl cannot stay the good friends with a guy like before the relationship, nor can vice versa. That's why a choice has to be made when building up a friendship with somebody from another gender than your own.

But, a girl cannot talk about things with a guy as she can with guys and I assume that it is the same vice versa. The conversations I've had with female friends of mine will never be the subject of the conversation with a male friend. That may be problematic, but doesn't have to be. I have been growing up with male friends, and you can sort of say that I'm used to guys and their habits. In fact I feel more comfortable with a guy as friend than a girl. It all depends on your lifesituation, your surroundings, religion, tolerance, and decisions.

Now let's assume that I fall in love with one of my male friends. He doesn't feel the same for me as I do for him. I can, btw, impossibly deny that this has never happened to me. I just continued to hang around with him, have fun, and after awhile I realized it was better to keep him as a friend than have him as my boyfriend.. I knew that if he would become my boyfriend things would never be the same again. And I didn't want to lose him. So I eventually got over him and he's still one of the best friends I've ever had.

[Novice]

Well my own personal theory is that the responses to this question will probably be consistent within the genders as well.

I'm thinking that most men will agree with travelinbob. And I think that most of the women responding will believe the opposite, agreeing with Nayru.

I happen to believe that they can be friends (guess I just gave away my gender!) Like Nayru, many of my close friends are male. Even while in high school and college, I made and remained good friends with predominantly boys/men. ANd none of those relationships turned physically intimate.

Just my 2 cents!

[Risu no Kairu]

According to the Ladder Theory, http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html , no.

[Mustardseed]

This is not only your theory but a old theory put forth by Harry in the movie "when Harry met Sally" you should see it . Very funny and insightfull too

[WalkerInTheWoods]

I think that it is entirely situational and depends upon the people involved. People are too varied to be able to use a blanket theory to answer this question.

[travelinbob]

Novice:
You are right. Women disagree with my theory while men agree with it. I guess that there is a break in communication as to what your friends want. I'm sure the relationships you mention did not turn physical because you chose to, not your male friens. Remember, It is Women Who Choose Who They Sleep With. We men are at your mercy.


Nayru:
Remember I'm talking of close friends not Group friends. One on one. Your best friend. The concept of multiple best friends is contradictory. You can only have ONE BEST FRIEND.

Risu no Kairu:
I've read the Ladder Theory before. My theory is a little less radical. I know a few women I would NEVER sleep with even if their was no chance it would ever be found out.

Mustardseed:
"when Harry met Sally": seen it more times than I care to admit.

Fallenangel77:
Like all theories, mine is an oversimplified model of reality expecting all else to be equal. Of course their might be an exception to the rule. But for argument sakes we must accept a blanket approach otherwise we will be drowned in legalistic caveats.

So, I ask:

If women think they can have a male best friend without him wanting it to become a more physical relationship, is it because they perceive it or because it is?

Under the Intelectual Whore theory, which Risu no Kairu mentions, a man can be an Intelectual whore by "putting out" emotional intimacy without getting any of the sexual payback, as that theory puts it. And in his hope of sometime in the future getting said payback, he can remain the woman's best friend. Thus he becomes her Intelectual Whore, while she goes out and sleeps with others. And because he wants always to stay on her good side because he does value her, he will bear it.

I do not totally agree with that because in my experience of having one long term female best friend, my hope that it would turn physically would oscilate in intensity. Sometimes she would drive me crazy to the point of having to avoid her for a while, to being almost nonexistent. But it was always there.

[Tisha]

A man's definition of female friend:  "a woman I haven't slept with YET."

It's a shallow definition, but true for most ordinary men, who for the most part cannot get over their sexual urges, and their need to be considered valuable as a mate, even if they don't want marriage.

My best friend is a man.  He is married with two kids, his wife and I get along great.  He is no ordinary man, though.  In fact, he doesn't even consider himself a man; he even speaks of the days he USED to be a man!  He is highly advanced spiritually/magically and has generally gotten over himself.

So the answer is, if you want deep female frienships without sex, you need to become extraordinary men.

[manuel]

quote:Originally posted by Risu no Kairu

According to the Ladder Theory, http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html , no.

lol! you been to that site as well?? what a small world ahh, i have learned that women say so many things, yet they dont know what the hell they want, rule 1, never take advice on dating/relatitionships of women, trust me on this guys, they dont know what they want them selves, any way, back to what i was saying, if a guy and girl realy did dig each other and than the girl pulls out the "lets be friends" crap, there is no real chance on a friend ship, come on! who wants to be downgraded from lover to friend?? of course, if the choice was both mutual than i cant see why not, ah look at me, im rambling, off to bed.

[Man Of Jade]

I have a friend who I would trust my life to without a second thought... As far as I know, the feeling is mutual. This person is the closest friend I have ever had.

That person is of the opposite sex. She goes out with someone other than me, but I'm not looking for that type of relationship with her.

As for both of us being heterosexuals...
Her? Yes. Quite the story how I found that out [^]
Me? Yes. It's similar to the above story.

Then again, my experience is a very.... Unique situation. After all, how we got to that point is half the story.

[travelinbob]

Tisha:
You are right. Once a man starts developing spiritually his sexual needs begin to loose importance. That is something I have begun to experience, or accept (don't know which). That may explain why I have been able to have friendships with women despite my attraction to them and maintain my sanity.

But I am talking of more than just sex. I am talking of the emotional intimacy that comes with a physical relationship. Love, if you will. We men seem to need this sexual fulfillment once an emotionaly intimate threshold has been crossed. While women can cross this threshold without needing the physical closure.

Manuel:

Its not that women don't know what they want. Its that they don't tell the whole story, I think. They say the want the romance and the understanding. But they always fall for the Alpha Male type, with the stench of pheromones and animal magnetism, and want him to give them the romance and understanding. But he has no incentive to be the nice guy because he can get as many women as he wants because of his pheromonic alpha maleness. When she starts wanting things from him, he drops her and she comes running and crying to her male best friend, who is probably in love with her, and wonders why it happened.

Man of Jade

You said not me:

quote:Then again, my experience is a very.... Unique situation. After all, how we got to that point is half the story.

[Xvirus]

men and women are foolish there time is up

[travelinbob]

Ok. Here it is summarized. I just thought about it:

A heterosexual man cannot love a heterosexual woman as his best friend without loving her as a woman as well.

Of course there will be exceptions to every rule. And yes, for arguments sake, it is generalized.

[Xvirus]

free me soon

[zuzee]

hello Travelinbob,

I just want to make sure I understood one of your points. Do you mean that when a man is able to have a conversation with a woman about things that are personal, private and dear to him there is an emotional link established, so... he thinks the obvious next step is to sleep with her?

[Xvirus]

9/11 was funny

[travelinbob]

Hi Zuzee:

No. What I'm saying is that if a man becomes a woman's best friends, the level of intimacy this implies will probably make him fall in love with her. Remember, I am not talking about just sex.

What I'm saying is that women can have higher levels of emotional intimacy with a man without love becoming an issue than the opposite. In other words, if a man and a woman gradually raise their level of emotional intimacy, it is more likely that the man, and not the woman, will fall in love.

[travelinbob]

My theory is that they can be friends in a groups but they cannot be intimate friends. No heterosexual man can be a heterosexual woman's best friend.

Reasoning:
While men do not necesarily need emotional intimacy to sleep with women, having sex makes it easier for a man to be emotionaly intimate with a woman. On the other hand, women can be emotionaly intimate with a man without having sex, but emotional intimacy makes it easier for a woman to have sex with the man.

If you have one without the other, someone is getting hurt, speacially when one of them goes out on a limb and gives what the other needs.

- If a guy sleeps with a woman and she expects an emotional response from him and does not get it she is hurt. The guy would say: "We have a F**k-Buddy relationship."

- If a woman becomes emotionaly intimate with a man and he expects this intimacy to become a sexual romance, and it doesn't he gets hurt. She would say something like :"I love you, but as a friend."

So, if a guy becomes emotionaly intimate with a woman, he will probably develope feelings for her and she will give the well know, "lets be friends" line.

He gets hurt. And friendship must be cut off or continue awkwardly. Therefore they can't be close friends.

Of course this theory of mine, does not take into account playing the field and casual sex. Just trule emotional involvment.

So I'd like to hear opinions. So I can either dump the theory or refine it.