My Thoughts on Lucid Dreaming and the 5 'Layers'

[CEO929]

Hi everyone! I figured I would create an unrelated topic from my main current ones. This is because I wanted to talk about lucid dreaming (hopefully I won't have to deal with any fear tests while I lucid dream  ). I have been making steady progress on developing the necessary skills to preform an OBE, even though I haven't left my body yet. I feel like it's only a matter of time before I 'conquer' my fear test. But in the meantime, I hear lucid dreaming is an excellent way to 'train' the mind for an actual OBE into the Otherwhere. But of course, the lucid dream state is usually in Focus 2. For those of you who don't know, which I'm sure is only some of you, there are apparently 5 'layers' of consciousness that a human being can tap into when it comes to an OBE. Maybe there's even more, but I haven't read about those yet. Perhaps I will read something that was written by Robert Monroe (anyone got any recommendations)?

Anyway, the layers are as follows:

1. Real Time Zone -- This one is pretty self explanatory. It is what we experience all the time in the waking state within the physical realm.

2. Focus 1 -- This involves the unaware/semi aware and uncontrollable dream state, whether it be nightmares or more pleasant dreams. We cannot control what happens, much like in real life.

3. Focus 2 -- This is the lucid dream state. It's so fascinating because not only are you fully aware you are dreaming, but you can also control all of your actions. Masters of the lucid dream state can control their environment and 'put it in its place' if it gets out of control or turns into a nightmare. Less experienced lucid dreamers do not have full control over their circumstances. Even experienced ones can lose control from time to time. If you think about it, life is a little bit like being a less experienced lucid dreamer. We can control our environment to an extent, but it doesn't always do what we want. But we usually do have more control over our own actions.

4. Focus 3 -- This is apparently the real Astral Realm. You can enter it via a lucid dream, but you will need to master astral projection to do it. The core difference between this and Focus 2 is that it is a culmination of all of our individual consciousness, whereas Focus 2 and 1 is just an imaginary realm your mind created. It is a bubble of your own personal consciousness. In order for me to prove to myself that the Otherwhere actually exists, I'll need to enter Focus 3. This is also where I will get the opportunity to talk to those who have passed away, since I will not be talking to just my 'dream copy' of them. I have heard that some people got the proof they desired, but then stopped believing in the Otherwhere (or Astral Realm, whatever you want to call it) because it didn't seem real enough to them or maybe they thought about it and reconsidered its existence. I will need substantial proof, even if just subjective, if I wish to avoid this. Perhaps those people were never able to leave Focus 2 to begin with. Interestingly, I hear Focus 3 can be influenced by conscious thought from even the physical, and this makes sense if you think about it.

5. Focus 4 -- And lastly, this is the infinite source. All that ever was or will be exists here. All potential and current manifestations exist here. Everything from the physical is connected to here as well, along with the rest of reality as a whole. All universes/realities exist at once and every point in time is a simultaneous and beautiful expression. The very notion of time holds little to no meaning here. Even in Focus 3, time begins to lose its meaning, so you can only imagine how it is expressed here. Time is only a consequence of the physical and the limited perspectives it offers us. Without the processes of the physical, time holds little meaning (as far as I know). In Focus 4, apparently everything is pure bliss. The human brain can barely comprehend this 'Highest Realm'.

Many religions have different names for it such as Nirvana and Heaven. I'm not religious though, but it's neat to see it is acknowledged in different ways within different belief systems. If it exists, I have NO idea how one could possibly even get a glimpse or a small taste of it. But that's okay. For now, I will just keep my attention on Focus 2 and 3. They are extraordinary enough as is. Though, ostensibly, the Buddha has proven himself worthy to become a part of the infinite, and Buddhists are very much certain he is one with everything now! Perhaps one must die to get there, but even then you may just wind up in Focus 3 or get reincarnated without a choice in the matter depending on your actions in life. Because I have not proven to myself that even Focus 3 exists, I have no idea what happens after you die (for now).
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So back to the topic of lucid dreaming. Does anyone have any idea how I can pull this off and how I can use it to enter Focus 3? I will do my own research, but any advice would be much appreciated. Could you guys tell me about your experiences with lucid dreaming? Could you also tell me what the differences are between Focus 2 and 3 (how real/vivid they feel by comparison)? How can you tell the difference? Does it truly feel that real?

P.S. -- If there's any inaccuracies in this post, like if I got the meaning behind the 5 layers wrong or something please feel free to correct me. Constructive criticism is never a bad thing if applied properly.

[EscapeVelocity]

One of the challenges in discussing experiences that often defy description is starting with an agreeable set of terms and definitions. Even amongst the more experienced members here, we have minor differences on certain aspects of this subject, so we necessarily allow a little latitude to one another.

It is good CEO that you have this 'frame of reference' to work within; we all need some template of reference, especially with this art. I'm not sure from where the 5 layers concept comes from, and I can appreciate its perspective, but I would ask you to refrain from using it here because it would only serve to confuse the current discussions. Use it for your own reference, as you see fit and as long as you want; we all are doing that in our individual interpretations; but for purposes of discussion here, we try to keep the terms to an agreeable minimum, and even that can cause some occasional grousing, lol.

For instance, we recognize and sometimes discuss these OBE experiences from these templates-

Physical Reality (PR)/Non-Physical Reality (NPR), Wider Reality (WR), Dreaming/Lucid Dreaming (LD)

Robert Monroe's Focus Levels- 3,10,15,21,23-27,34,35 and beyond

Frank Kepple's Focus Levels F1/F2/F3/F4 (which is fairly close to what you describe)

The Occult/Theosophical/Hindu Model (and this can also relate to the idea of Chakras):
Physical Plane/Body
Etheric Plane/Body (RTZ but that is a bit misleading)
Astral Plane/Body (Lower-Dream Zone and Personal Astral, Higher/Public or Astral Proper)
Mental Plane/Body (Lower and Higher)
Causal and higher planes...

If you want to research how to turn a LD into an F3 experience, I would suggest reading the Frank Kepple Resource. If you are proficient at maintaining a Lucid Dream then you can command the entire scene to come to a STOP and it can then dissolve into a black, infinite scene we call a Void experience. Then with the proper Intent, you can move into an F3 environment. This maneuver can take some time to pull off and may require certain "energy body" development beforehand. Again, we are all different. It may take you a day or it may take twenty years...

Just understand, sometimes a series of small steps are required before larger steps...

Personally, I think LDs are a great method to work your way into the Astral. Just understand that Lessons, Quests and Challenges will come with it. You have to accomplish those before you are allowed to proceed. Your present Dweller issue is the first.

Here's a link that may add some ideas

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/the_astral_pulse_hotline-t47606.50.html

EV