What's "Real"

[darkdog302]

Hello everyone! So the purpose of this thread is to create a discussion because I am eager to hear the opinions of others. Now, before those of you who like to comment things like "Don't judge off of others, have your own experience" comment that, I am letting those of you know that I understand that but I am looking to listen and learn from what others think. Since I have not experienced a conscious OBE or astral projection myself, I cannot help but have smalls shreds of doubt even though I truly believe in the validity of astral projection. From what I have read and observed, there seem to be three very different prevailing beliefs about AP.

The first of which, is the in my opinion a very narrow belief; astral projection is not possible and does not exist in any form. Sadly, if you venture past this forum, the vast majority of the population has completely disregarded the existence of astral projection. I'm going to assume that no active member of the forum follow this train of thought. Now, I have seen less extreme claims made by those who have experienced conscious OBEs and astral projections. Their claim is that they believe that everything we experience in the "Astral" is just an expansion upon a very vivid, lucid dream. I do not completely disregard this theory entirely. I know people have had validations while projecting, which uproots this theory, but in some ways it still makes SOME sense.

The second is more of a middle ground. There are those who have had astral experiences and recognize that there is more than just a waking reality. These people recognize that most of what they encounter in the non-physical are manifestations of our subconscious. For example, a perceived demon is simply a manifestation of fear, and not a "real entity". However, there are from what we have observed beings that exist outside of our own manifestations. Such as spirit guides (possibly?). It's a lot to wrap my brain around. I'm more of a middle ground believer.

The third are what I call extremists. Now, my intention is not to come off as offensive, and I really hope that I do not offend anyone. I've seen a lot of projectors who either strongly believe in projection and call it the work of the "Devil", and then there are those who believe in things like crystals etc. Now, I don't really know much about crystals and things like that, but to me it seems a bit far fetched. I can't really wrap my head around the idea of crystals that have energy. What are the origins? I don't want to sound dismissive, but I'm really just more curious. Back to the idea of "Satan" though. I've seen lots of people claim that those who try and promote astral projection are in fact possessed by demons. Well, I'm not a demon...so....

Anyway, the point of this thread if I have not made it clear already (I'm not wonderful at expressing my thoughts into typed words) is that I want to hear your opinions of what you believe is real, and what is reality. I'm somewhat split down the middle. I mostly believe that there is a non-physical that we enter when we sleep etc, but a small part of me also believes that what we experience is really just a part of the mind that we don't comprehend entirely. That what we experience in the non-physical are very elaborate figments of our subconscious. Of course, astral validations make that theory invalid, so I'm not sure. I look forward to reading your responses!

[LightBeam]

Don't take much for consideration of what the masses belief. Because in the distant past everyone but few people thought the earth was flat, because this was their logic and physical perception. So, always go with your own instincts and keep a very open mind especially when comes to something that no science can prove, because it is of non physical nature. Plus, it's not that most people do not believe in AP. They probably never thought about it, but every religious person believes in life after death. Well, this is the same. I think at this point there are more religious and spiritual people on earth than atheists. Just religion has limiting rules that involve demons, occult, AP, supernatural abilities, etc claiming to be the Satan's work, which to me is ridiculous, but that's my opinion.

Now, I have had countless validations which involve other people, so I will never think that AP is just a product of our brain hallucinating, etc.

You have not experienced it, so you don't have a concrete opinion, but collecting data is helpful, just go with your instincts, because everyone forms certain expectations before any experience, and the first level we enter is highly influenced by your beliefs and expectations.

Do demons or anything else form temporary because of fear? Sure, energy is very playable, so your thoughts can mold energy and create whatever they think of, just like the artist makes a sculpture out of clay. So, some things are energy forms and shapes created temporary by our thoughts that react according to our beliefs. We are the puppeteers of those shapes, but many do not see the invisible strings.

Entities are independent consciousness, that reason, learn, grow, experience, etc. Places that are established by mass consciousness are pretty stable and it depends on the residents' needs,  believes, etc have many different looks. There are many frequency levels as well. For example I have experienced that the more love and positivity you carry, the more beautiful places you encounter and the less you feel like a personality. You start feeling one with everything and everyone. Those who have negative emotions, or destructive thoughts simply can  not observe higher frequency dimensions because their own frequency remains equal on their thoughts resonance.

Things are not so black and white when comes to astral experiences. You may get different answer from every single person on earth, because the experiences there strongly depend on where everyone's emotions, thoughts, beliefs, expectations, etc will take them. So, keep that in mind. And what I said above is based on my own experiences, because of how I think and in what I believe.

[darkdog302]

Don't take much for consideration of what the masses belief. Because in the distant past everyone but few people thought the earth was flat, because this is what their logic and physical perception. So, always go with your own instincts and keep a very open mind especially when comes to something that no science can prove because it is of non physical matter. Plus, it's not that most people do not believe in AP. They probably never thought about it, but every religious person beliefs in life after death. Well, this is the same. I think at this point there are more religious and spiritual people on earth than atheists. Just religion has limiting rules that involve demons, occult, AP, supernatural abilities, etc claiming to be the Satan's work, which to me is ridiculous, but that's my opinion.

Now, I have had countless validations which involve other people, so I will never think that AP just a product of our brain hallucinating, etc.

You have not experienced it, so you don't have a concrete opinion, but collecting data is helpful, just go with your instincts, because everyone forms certain expectations before any experience, and the first level we enter is highly influenced by your beliefs and expectations.

Do demons or anything else form temporary because of fear? Sure, energy is very playable, so your thoughts can mold energy and create whatever they think of, just like the artist makes a sculpture out of clay. So, some things are energy forms and shapes created temporary by our thoughts that react according to our beliefs. We are the puppeteers of those shapes, but many do not see the invisible strings.

Entities are independent consciousness, that reason, learn, grow, experience, etc. Places that are established by mass consciousness are pretty stable and it depends on the residents' needs,  believes, etc have many different looks. There are many frequency levels as well. For example I have experienced that the more love and positivity you carry, the more beautiful places you encounter and the less you feel like a personality. You start feeling one with everything and everyone. Those who have negative emotions, or destructive thoughts simply can  not observe higher frequency dimensions because their own frequency remains equal on their thoughts resonance.

Things are not so black and white when comes to astral experiences. You may get different answer from every single person on earth, because the experiences there strongly depend on where everyone's emotions, thoughts, beliefs, expectations, etc will take them. So, keep that in mind. And what I said above is based on my own experiences, because of how I think and in what I believe.

Wow! Thank you so much for your well thought out response. I can tell that you are very intelligent and I'm very grateful that you shared your thoughts. I especially liked your analogy about the old world model. The point you made is very true. Obviously everything is not black and white, otherwise we would all have much more concrete and similar experiences, and I would not be here asking others to sort-of share their definition of reality in terms of the physical and astral. I'm glad I was able to see things from a new perspective.

[Lionheart]

 "What's real?"

This, that and here, there and everywhere! 

No matter where I find myself or what I am doing, it's "real" to me!

[soarin12]

Dreams, lucid dreams, Astral projection, and the way it'll be in the afterlife --all real and all the same type of reality in that it's all 'thinking a thought and having it manifest instantly and being able to interact with the reality that you just created.'

I think where people feel cheated in the reality department is when they meet a person or animal in the astral, and wonder if it's a conscious entity or not.  If it isn't, we think 'oh, it wasn't real.'  But it is real -it's just not conscious. (although many have said that ALL energy is conscious -it's all the God/source itself)  Things get pretty deep at that point!  I think people tend to discount the dreams and some lucid dreams because most are your private creations and other conscious entities aren't usually present.  Big mistake, IMO.  Dreams can have just as much value as AP, and plenty of communication with other entities or the Source itself can take place in them, especially if one has the intention for that.

In some of my astral projections, I'm sure that I'm experiencing a shared reality, and there are other conscious beings present.  In others I'm not sure, but I consider all my NP experiences to be real, of great value, and an opportunity for communication with God and/or other beings.

[EscapeVelocity]

Many early explorers find themselves in what used to be called an Etheric projection or RTZ environment, and then wonder if they have reached the Astral. Over time, their experiences evolve into more Phasing-like environments which may be the Astral but the environments are not as stable as they would expect and they don't interact with any conscious beings, only dull, lifeless, less than interesting characters. As their experiences evolve further, they begin to encounter clearly conscious, independent beings, with telepathic forms of communication, within even more stable, apparently consensus environments and are shown and take part in obvious lessons and learning simulations. Along this line of development, other forms of learning are slowly becoming apparent to the experiencer: Downloads, telepathic learning/communication, point conscious experiences...

As you review your experiences over time, it becomes apparent that even early on, you are being shown what you are ready to assimilate, that the lessons are literally everywhere and in everything. Step by step, you are learning to understand and handle various energies; your mindset has to evolve and expand. It's really quite incredible!

How I look at it now, is that no matter what environment I find myself in, if it is teaching me something, if I have the opportunity to learn, then it is Reality.

[Xanth]

Anyway, the point of this thread if I have not made it clear already (I'm not wonderful at expressing my thoughts into typed words) is that I want to hear your opinions of what you believe is real, and what is reality. I'm somewhat split down the middle. I mostly believe that there is a non-physical that we enter when we sleep etc, but a small part of me also believes that what we experience is really just a part of the mind that we don't comprehend entirely. That what we experience in the non-physical are very elaborate figments of our subconscious. Of course, astral validations make that theory invalid, so I'm not sure. I look forward to reading your responses!

Just remember... YOU ASKED! 

First, we need to address the question, "What is real?", because to know what in your experience is real and what is not real is a bit stumbling block to get past.
Sadly, it's REALLY simple... what is real is whatever you can experience.  By it's very extension, there can not be something we call "not real".  If you can experience it, then that makes it real. 

So then you might be asking if everything we can experience is real, then what are hallucinations if not something not real you're "seeing"?  Just because you see something that other people can not, doesn't mean it's not there.  It's there... you're seeing it.  That makes it real. 

I have a fourth category for your list above... I'll just call it "my perspective".
My perspective is that EVERYTHING is a projection.  A dream is a projection; a lucid dream is a projection; an astral projection is a projection; this physical reality is a projection.  If your consciousness is experiencing something, then it's a projection... and if "real" is whatever you can experience, then everything is real.  Consciousness isn't split up into neat little categories... consciousness is consciousness.  Consciousness is everything.

That goes into your next question, "What is reality?"... I'm assuming you mean the reality this physical reality.
This physical reality is just one of an infinite number of, we'll just call them "astral realities".  It's no different than any reality you experience while you project elsewhere.  Nothing at all.
People visit "other" realities all the time... this forum is FULL of stories where people have visited realities numerous times, over and over again... these are "stable" realities.  This physical reality is such a reality.  It's a STABLE reality... why is it stable?  Why are ALL stable realities stable?  Because its creation and existence is being fueled by more than just your consciousness; because there are consciousnesses there constantly experiencing it.  This physical reality is stable because of the number of consciousnesses who are concurrently experiencing it. 

To further explain my perspective as it relates to "projections", I wrote this article a while back about the labels:  http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/labeling-experiences-of-the-non-physical/

[darkdog302]

Just remember... YOU ASKED! 

First, we need to address the question, "What is real?", because to know what in your experience is real and what is not real is a bit stumbling block to get past.
Sadly, it's REALLY simple... what is real is whatever you can experience.  By it's very extension, there can not be something we call "not real".  If you can experience it, then that makes it real. 

So then you might be asking if everything we can experience is real, then what are hallucinations if not something not real you're "seeing"?  Just because you see something that other people can not, doesn't mean it's not there.  It's there... you're seeing it.  That makes it real. 

I have a fourth category for your list above... I'll just call it "my perspective".
My perspective is that EVERYTHING is a projection.  A dream is a projection; a lucid dream is a projection; an astral projection is a projection; this physical reality is a projection.  If your consciousness is experiencing something, then it's a projection... and if "real" is whatever you can experience, then everything is real.  Consciousness isn't split up into neat little categories... consciousness is consciousness.  Consciousness is everything.

That goes into your next question, "What is reality?"... I'm assuming you mean the reality this physical reality.
This physical reality is just one of an infinite number of, we'll just call them "astral realities".  It's no different than any reality you experience while you project elsewhere.  Nothing at all.
People visit "other" realities all the time... this forum is FULL of stories where people have visited realities numerous times, over and over again... these are "stable" realities.  This physical reality is such a reality.  It's a STABLE reality... why is it stable?  Why are ALL stable realities stable?  Because its creation and existence is being fueled by more than just your consciousness; because there are consciousnesses there constantly experiencing it.  This physical reality is stable because of the number of consciousnesses who are concurrently experiencing it. 

To further explain my perspective as it relates to "projections", I wrote this article a while back about the labels:  http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/labeling-experiences-of-the-non-physical/

First I would like to thank everyone for their wonderful replies. I'm still at work, but I wanted to address one more of the many questions I have, and it relates to Xanth's comment. It's a fairly simple one. Does this mean that there are beings living in a sort of "parallel" state to ours, who exist in a physical dimension who probably wonder if we exist? If that question doesn't make sense I'll clarify. Like is it possible that there is a completely stable "Other Earth" type situation where someone is sitting down and wondering if we ourselves exist just as I am wondering if they do?

[Xanth]

First I would like to thank everyone for their wonderful replies. I'm still at work, but I wanted to address one more of the many questions I have, and it relates to Xanth's comment. It's a fairly simple one. Does this mean that there are beings living in a sort of "parallel" state to ours, who exist in a physical dimension who probably wonder if we exist? If that question doesn't make sense I'll clarify. Like is it possible that there is a completely stable "Other Earth" type situation where someone is sitting down and wondering if we ourselves exist just as I am wondering if they do?

Well, my opinion, not "parallel" as in an exact parallel copy of this Earth where things are just slightly different.
But yes, there are an infinite number of other "physical" realities out there where consciousnesses can choose to exist within to learn.