Why are we here according to Robert Monroe.

[Steel Hawk]

Possibly my greatest contribution to humankind I have ever made. Never thought it would be posting a link.

Robert Monroe -- (no longer physical) one of the worlds greatest astral projectors... watch.

Part 1 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSBM7Qeo5bg

Part 2 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEMzONZupCA

Part 3 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO2m6jj2-jk

Part 4 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcujWUy3JGQ

Part 5 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF6Ri_6QKjo

Part 6 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ0QQ9612yg

Part 7 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXK343CzOzk

Part 8 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyjIuFS1CPE

Part 9 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V96Ty5L2jMM

[omcasey]

I love this talk.  I really like him . .

[Stookie]

I like how he uses the phrase "have fun".

[kurtykurt42]

Wow, thanks for the link. Monroe is definitely one of my favorites too.

[Stillwater]

Yeah, I always liked his reverent tone; he has done a considerable amount to bring this subject to public knowledge, but I guess some ideas are not meant to be mainstream. It still baffles me how these types experienes aren't spoken about in psychology texts, and are still only a brief footnote in discussions of the philosophy of mind.

Whatever your explanation for this phenomenon, it is among them most relevant for understanding what the nature of reality might be- you would really think there would be more public awareness of such a central issue.

[kurtykurt42]

Public awareness is controlled by the government. If you think about it, there's only a few ways that people can obtain information: People, Television, The Internet, and Books. Obtaining information from people can be risky since they might not be telling the truth or they might be crazy!    Television, is controlled by the government, in fact every single channel is monitored and programmed closely. Why do you think it's called programming. The internet, my personal favorite is the largest source of information on the planet. If you have a question, you can type it in google and sit there for hours until you found an answer that you feel is correct. And books, which can be found on the internet are also good sources of information.

As for understanding the true nature of 'why we are here'. A question I have searched for hundreds, perhaps even thousands of hours online for, is not easy for many to accept. If fact I have found most people are too overwhelmed to accept it. Oh well... Like Monroe said, It may take a thousand life times until someone is ready to understand. 

[Stillwater]

While the government does not atively monitor most programming, they certainly do set standards of what can be shown, and the government does play a large role in what the media and press is allowed to say.

The internet, my personal favorite is the largest source of information on the planet.

Seconded. It is far too massive to regulate completely. With the use of the internet, an ignorant person can educate themselves about all manner of things they could not possibly have accessed otherwise, and more importantly, almost any branch of human knowledge is availible to them. Internet forums allow experts on a subject to convene and share knowledge in an entirely unprecedented manner, regardles of the separation of distance, social order, and posting time. Previously, in order for people to meet and speak about OBEs, for instance, they would have to move to Haight-Ashbury in San Francisco, and even then, they would mostly be talking to people tripping on LSD, and none of the experts on the field. In a forum like this, the relevant people and experts from all over the world can exchange information without limits.

If the internet succumbs to government regulation, the most direct path open to most people to all kinds of free and unadulterated knowledge will be lost. We could then only know things we could learn from sources that others determined for us, such as books or articles which were chosen to be published and stocked in stores and libraries.

People do not truly appreciate the staggering importance of these facts, or there would be massive push for a "freedom of information" ammendment relating to such things as the internet in the US.

If fact I have found most people are too overwhelmed to accept it.

I think a more important reason is that mainstream science does not currently accept these experiences as feature of the world and human experience, and feels no obligation to deal with explaining it. If there was diligent scientific study and the results and discussions were publicized, people would jump on the subject with great interest.

[kurtykurt42]

While I was in the shower a moment ago I remembered radios as well. In fact one of my favorites is Coast to Coast AM but I always download it online, so I don't have to listen to the commercials. 

I think a more important reason is that mainstream science does not currently accept these experiences as feature of the world and human experience, and feels no obligation to deal with explaining it. If there was diligent scientific study and the results and discussions were publicized, people would jump on the subject with great interest.

To be honest I don't really pay attention to 'mainstream' science anymore. People think that science is a set of rules that can't be changed and when that happens in becomes a religion. We have to learn to keep an open mind to new ideas and not become too relient on previous ways of thinking.

[iNNERvOYAGER]

EDIT: Forgot to thank Steel Hawk, great links! Thanks!

To be honest I don't really pay attention to 'mainstream' science anymore. We have to learn to keep an open mind to new ideas and not become too relient on previous ways of thinking.

LOL, OK, I don't pay attention to 'mainstream' science anymore either.

I don't drive a car, or fly in aircraft, this will be the last time I ever use a computer. Don't use the microwave, or air-conditioning, all that stuff is just so Science 'mainstream'.  

[Inner~Peace]

If the internet succumbs to government regulation, the most direct path open to most people to all kinds of free and unadulterated knowledge will be lost. We could then only know things we could learn from sources that others determined for us, such as books or articles which were chosen to be published and stocked in stores and libraries.

People do not truly appreciate the staggering importance of these facts, or there would be massive push for a "freedom of information" ammendment relating to such things as the internet in the US.

I think a more important reason is that mainstream science does not currently accept these experiences as feature of the world and human experience, and feels no obligation to deal with explaining it. If there was diligent scientific study and the results and discussions were publicized, people would jump on the subject with great interest.

Totally agreed Stillwater, I knew virtually nothing about OBEs and always threw them out instantly, thinking the person claiming the experience to be mistaken about what happened to them.  I consider myself lucky for simply not going through this entire life without stumbling across, and giving serious thought to this.  Couldn't have happened without the good ole interwebs

As mainstream science...hmm.  I think we are mostly exposed to validating experiments for things we are wanted to believe, for the most part.  Unless a person takes the time to look on the net,  they have to rely on stumbling upon anything that says OBEs aren't made up or simply dreams.

And thanks Steel Hawk for the links

[Tiny]

Dear folks,

thanks for sharing.

For the last 2-3 months I've become aware that my only personal task right now seems to be to get rid of the addiction (I've been calling it earthly detachment) in preparation for my departure which I feel is pretty soon. My spirit is pretty much retracting itself from this world right now.



peace

[Xanth]

Dear folks,

thanks for sharing.

For the last 2-3 months I've become aware that my only personal task right now seems to be to get rid of the addiction (I've been calling it earthly detachment) in preparation for my departure which I feel is pretty soon. My spirit is pretty much retracting itself from this world right now.

peace

Personally speaking, I'm done with this physical crap.   This is my *last* go around... lol

However,

I was thinking about what he was saying regarding being "addicted" to this physical life... and the reasons he came up with I'm not sure if I can fully agree with.  He mentions kinda strange stuff like, "Oh, I wanted to eat more steak... I'll go back just for that."  Or... "I wanted more children."
I find those reasons to be kind of asinine...

Stuff like that is going to be constantly changing... you're *NEVER* going to be able to experience everything.  With the pace that the world and humanity is changing, it's an impossibility.  So any reasons you can come up with are in a constant state of changing... then your reasons for coming back here time and time again are flawed, and you've got more invested here than just "I wanted more steak".  The reason must be something deeper and more ingrained in yourself.  There's more here than just a "desire", if you get what I'm saying...

Am I making any sense?  LoL

[Tiny]

Personally speaking, I'm done with this physical crap.   This is my *last* go around... lol

However,

I was thinking about what he was saying regarding being "addicted" to this physical life... and the reasons he came up with I'm not sure if I can fully agree with.  He mentions kinda strange stuff like, "Oh, I wanted to eat more steak... I'll go back just for that."  Or... "I wanted more children."
I find those reasons to be kind of asinine...

Stuff like that is going to be constantly changing... you're *NEVER* going to be able to experience everything.  With the pace that the world and humanity is changing, it's an impossibility.  So any reasons you can come up with are in a constant state of changing... then your reasons for coming back here time and time again are flawed, and you've got more invested here than just "I wanted more steak".  The reason must be something deeper and more ingrained in yourself.  There's more here than just a "desire", if you get what I'm saying...

Am I making any sense?  LoL

Dear Xanth,

well of course I'm sure there are many ways to get here based upon various deceptions.

But I think the most well known one is the Karma system.

There are some well known, retarded astral-schools up there that apparently like to teach you that you're supposed to come back to pay off your bad deeds.
And then with all the lights and aaaah's and ooh-so-beautiful's - people start to believe and so they become slaves to that system.

I'll give it the finger next time.


In fact I've come to this point where I would leave any day now - if I had the chance. I've really crushed my attachments to a point where the only thing holding me back are those people who cling to me and there are not many left.


peace

[CFTraveler]

I see what you're saying, but remember, that the concept of 'not wanting to come back' is pretty much cultural, since most people don't even entertain the idea of coming back, and if they do, it's almost with a 'I wish I could'...  So I think a very small minimum of people who believe in reincarnation think that the object of the game is not to have to come back.
Hmmm, I'm not sure of what I'm trying to say here, maybe that a great majority of people come back for the most asinine of reasons- because they don't know they don't have to, the idea just hasn't occurred to them.  And a large cross section of people who realize they have a choice, still haven't made up their mind 100%- I know that I haven't, I'm just not sure.  Silly, isn't it?

[Xanth]

Dear Xanth,

well of course I'm sure there are many ways to get here based upon various deceptions.

But I think the most well known one is the Karma system.

There are some well known, retarded astral-schools up there that apparently like to teach you that you're supposed to come back to pay off your bad deeds.
And then with all the lights and aaaah's and ooh-so-beautiful's - people start to believe and so they become slaves to that system.

Recently, I've kinda tossed aside any belief I've had in Karma.

I'll give it the finger next time.

In fact I've come to this point where I would leave any day now - if I had the chance. I've really crushed my attachments to a point where the only thing holding me back are those people who cling to me and there are not many left.

That's pretty much my feeling as well.  LoL

I see what you're saying, but remember, that the concept of 'not wanting to come back' is pretty much cultural, since most people don't even entertain the idea of coming back, and if they do, it's almost with a 'I wish I could'...  So I think a very small minimum of people who believe in reincarnation think that the object of the game is not to have to come back.
Hmmm, I'm not sure of what I'm trying to say here, maybe that a great majority of people come back for the most asinine of reasons- because they don't know they don't have to, the idea just hasn't occurred to them.  And a large cross section of people who realize they have a choice, still haven't made up their mind 100%- I know that I haven't, I'm just not sure.  Silly, isn't it?

Cultural differences... yeah I didn't think of that one.
My hope is that this extends beyond cultural boundaries and exists in a place where, as you say, people just end up realizing that they DO have the choice, if indeed, that choice really does exist within ourselves. 

[Stookie]

From a perspective outside of time and space, 1 physical lifetime ain't sh... nothin. It's only something to whine about while your here. Afterwords you'll be like, "I can't believe I was acting like such a baby in regards to something so simple".

[Tiny]

From a perspective outside of time and space, 1 physical lifetime ain't sh... nothin. It's only something to whine about while your here. Afterwords you'll be like, "I can't believe I was acting like such a baby in regards to something so simple".

Dear Stookie,

don't you think it's rather an illusion?

I don't see how time matters, it's about the here and now isn't it?

10 minutes of torture can be enough for one lose his/her own mind and that trauma may carry on after death - potentially forever if no outside intervention happens to help the soul.

This is just one example.
In many parts of this world people are programmed to deny their very selves all their lives long, eventually driving them to the edge of insanity when they are later suddenly forced to accept that all their lives they've been living a lie.

Life is psychically a grave danger from the beginning til end - for everyone who has come here.


That's why I think it is not fair to think that people are whining about life.

Please consider yourself lucky...



peace

[Stookie]

Physical reality is mostly real from this point of view. From another perspective, the pain and torture and suffering was never real in the first place. Just an experience.

But from here it's awful and makes people want to blame it all on an outside source and not take responsibility. My life hasn't been all hunky-dory, but I do consider myself lucky by having my perspective forced upside down. But it took crushing devastation to get there. And if you haven't ever been devastated, you haven't lived.

Life is psychically a grave danger from the beginning til end - for everyone who has come here.

That's one of the things I love about it. All the myriad of things that can happen at any moment, but somehow we made it to an internet forum to chat about it. It's like constantly winning the lottery. I should be running from a bear or getting struck by lightning or something right now.

[Tiny]

-

[Berserk]

Robert Monroe remains in the new Age hinterland for one simple reason:  when the chips were down he couldn't deliver. True, RAM does have some quirky verifications.  For example, he pinches a lady during an astral visit and she later confirms the pinch.  "Oh, was that you?"  she says.  Then he astrally visits a dead doctor in a spirit hospital and does not recognize him; RAM instread sees a young red-haired doctor.  But he later confirms that he had seen the targeted doctor after all when he is shown the doctor's wedding photo.  RAM had known the doctor only in the latter's old age.   But parapsycholgist, Charles Tart subjected RAM to several tests of his OBE abilities, and in my view, RAM failed these tests miserably. You can read about some of Tart's tests in the Introduction to RAM's "Journeys out of the Body."  

When it comes to verifications of astral abilities, RAM is not even in the same class as astral adept Emanuel Swedenborg.  No modern astral adept is.  But ES dies in the late 18th century.  If he were alive today, he would be the superstar of the New Age astral exploration movement.  What we desperately need is a new Swedenborg.  If he were our contemporary, his astral gifts would attract significant notice in the scientific community.

[Tiny]

Robert Monroe remains in the new Age hinterland for one simple reason:  when the chips were down he couldn't deliver. True, RAM does have some quirkly verifications.  For example, he pinches a lady during an astral visit and she later confirms the pinch.  "Om was that you?"  she says.  Then he astrally visits a dead doctor in a spirit hospital and does not recognize him; RAM instread sees a young red-haired doctor.  But he later confirms that he had seen the targeted doctor after all when he is shown the doctor's wedding photo.  RAM had known the doctor only in the latter's old age.   But parapsycholgist, Charles Tart subjected RAM to several tests of his OBE abilities, and in my view, RAM failed these tests miserably. You can read about some of Tart's tests in the Introduction to RAM's "Journeys out of the Body." 

When it comes to verifications of astral abilities, RAM is not even in the same class as astral adept Emanuel Swedenborg.  No modern astral adept is.  But ES dies in the late 18th century.  If he were alive today, he would be the superstar of the New Age astral exploration movement.  What we desperately need is a new Swedenborg.  If he were our contemporary, his astral gifts would attract significant notice in the scientific community.

Dear Berserk,

if you had studied a little closer,

you knew that it wasn't all about Robert Monroe.

It was about a team that Monroe had created who brought the information down to him and the Monroe Institute from their own experiences in astral travel.


peace

[Berserk]

[Tiny:] "If you had studied a little closer, you knew that it wasn't all about Robert Monroe.
It was about a team that Monroe had created who brought the information down to him and the Monroe Institute from their own experiences in astral travel.

Ah, patronizing New Age assumptions!  "If you had only studied a little closer..."  I've read the entire Monroe trilogy, purchased the complete set of Gateway CDs for $550, and actively practiced with them for months.  What a waste of money!  I've regularly chatted with TMI grads online to determine if any of them has received an impressive verification.  None of then ever have, and so, they are  understandably annoyed at my persistence to discover if any of this is real.  I have retrieved suicides and had an OBE in which I was bouncing off the ceiling and gazing down at my sleeping body in bed.  At that time, such experiences seemed overwhelmingly powerful and self-authenticating.  Now I view them as nothing more than lucid dreams masked as OBEs. Lucid dream experts like Stephen LaBerge claim regular OBEs, but add that these are of course just lucid dreams of leaving the body.  

My subject was a response to queries about why the scientific establishment pays no notice to   RAM.  If the TMI founder can't perform well on verification tests, the scientific community won't care about RAM's groupies.  Of course, neither RAM nor students at TMI even come close to the quality of verifications provided by Swedenborg.  It is only because of Swedenborg that the subject of OBEs continues to hold my attention.  It is not just RAM who performed unimpressively on parapsychological tests.  In general, OBE adepts perform miserably on such tests.  So let's drop this unctious New Age conspiracy theory that the government is to blame!  Pass ordinary OBE verification tests and you'll change the world.  TMI grads have fared no better than RAM.  Quite simply, we need a modern adept as gifted as Swedenborg, if we expect to elevate OBE research beyond the level of New Age quackdoodle in the public eye.    

[iNNERvOYAGER]

Pass ordinary OBE verification tests and you'll change the world.  Quite simply, we need a modern adept as gifted as Swedenborg, if we expect to elevate OBE research beyond the level of New Age quackdoodle in the public eye.    

We need the equivalent of the Hubble space telescope technology to reveal non-physical reality to the masses.

[Xanth]

[Tiny:] "If you had studied a little closer, you knew that it wasn't all about Robert Monroe.
It was about a team that Monroe had created who brought the information down to him and the Monroe Institute from their own experiences in astral travel.

Ah, patronzing New Age assumptions!  "If you had only studied a little closer..."  I've read the entire Monroe trilogy, purchased the complete set of Gateway CDs for $550, and actively practiced with them for months.  What a waste of money!  I've regularly chatted with TMI grads online to determine if any of them has received an impressive verification.  None of then ever have, and so, they are  understandably annoyed at my persistence to discover if any of this is real.  I have retrieved suicides and had an OBE in which I was bouncing off the ceiling and gazing down at my sleeping body in bed.  At that time, such experiences seemed overwhelmingly powerful and self-authenticating.  Now I view them as nothing more than lucid dreams masked as OBEs. Lucid dream experts like Stephen LaBerge claim regular OBEs, but add that these are of course just lucid dreams of leaving the body.  

My subject was a response to queries about why the scientific establishment pays no notice to   RAM.  If the TMI founder can't perform well on verification tests, the scientific community won't care about RAM's groupies.  Of course, neither RAM nor students at TMI even come close to the quality of verifications provided by Swedenborg.  It is only because of Swedenborg that the subject of OBEs continues to hold my attention.  It is not just RAM who performed unimpressively on parapsychological tests.  In general, OBE adepts perform miserably on such tests.  So let's drop this unctious New Age conspiracy theory that the government is to blame!  Pass ordinary OBE verification tests and you'll change the world.  TMI grads have fared no better than RAM.  Quite simply, we need a modern adept as gifted as Swedenborg, if we expect to elevate OBE research beyond the level of New Age quackdoodle in the public eye.    

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Tiny...
You can read everything Robert Monroe has written and listen to every CD/Tape in existance... but in the end you're barking up the wrong tree.

So, you're just looking for verification that what you're experiencing is real?
That kind of thing can really only come from you.  You can only answer that on your own... and if you haven't found the answer yet, just keep looking.
Stop looking for others to give you your answers. 

[Adun]

I don't buy any of this. Everything suggests individuality is an illusion, it's logically impossible to make sense of consciousness being a tangible unique something we possess.


When you die you don't stop existing because you never objectively existed in the first place. Think of a wave: it's not made of atoms, when you see a wave in a lake the water is not moving forward, it just moves up and down, the wave a vibration that is passed on from particle to particle. Is it a big fuss when one wave dies out? Waves are simply part of the continuously-changing lake, waves are constantly appearing, separating into others, and dying out.

Likewise, throughout life we're constantly exchanging matter and information with the exterior: we learn, we change and we age. We're completely different both physically and mentally from what we were 10 or 20 years ago. We are as dead as we'll ever be.

When we die, it's simply another change. Others we'll take our place, life goes on. Just like every cell in your body is part of you, every animal, rock or star is part of the Universe.

Even yet, death is not as sudden end as we make it to be, (again, like a wave) it's gradual. A person's brain and body may forever stop working in mere minutes, but other things take longer (more often than not a whole lot longer) than that to die out: the DNA left in his children, all the art, knowledge and culture he produced, the influence he had on others through out his life, etc etc.