You know, i am starting to get annoyed with stupid morality towards psy powers...lets suppose that i have the ability to predict the numbers of some toto lottery. Why shouldnt i use that power to get millionaire? Why is that immoral?
Isnt stupid saying "ohh! i will not use my power! its not fair"
bullsh**** its what i say
I imagine it would be difficult to accurately retrieve the correct sequence of numbers necessary to win the jackpot. So it might be easier for someone to say "No, it's immoral." rather than prove that they aren't quite as good at what they do as they think they are.
I suppose that in some peoples eyes it would only be immoral if done in greed or lust for power. But if you were to use the money to truly better yourself and others, it's all good. At the same time, it's supposed to be a game of chance, and if you can tip the scale in your direction, that's cheating (immoral).
And if you don't believe in morals, it's OK all around.
I guess there are so many variables it's probably better not to touch it.
In my opinion the question you should ask is "do I think it is immoral?"
Morals are forced on you from all sides, your direct environment, school, sometimes church. I find it important to make your own morals and live by them, take control of your own life. Too many people decide not to do things they enjoy because other people frown upon them, it's a shame.
Ofcourse you should always follow the law, and make sure other people are not bothered by them. And by that I don't mean if people take offence by the you dress yourself for instance!
That's my opinion on it.
LittleJoe
i dont think it is immoral i once won at a casino because of my esp
I have lost someone that I'd rather choose an easy way out of this life than a jackpot if I were given the choice. I just can't see myself happy with even an amount greater than Bill Gates.
The lilfe of this world is just an illusion, life will actually go by faster when your having fun and rich. Then at the end when you're an old rich person you will not want to leave and wish to live longer so you can enjoy your fun longer.
I believe there is an indescribable bliss beyond this physical illusion.
It's sure as hell not an illusion.
This is reality.
Look, people think happiness is a hard thing to get.
It's one of the easiest things you can achieve, but some people just have better things to do then being happy.
Or some people just don't get it.
If you have a high status in our society you will understand that happiness is the greatest thing you can feel.
THAT is an illusion, because it's just OUR feeling, it isn't reality.
HUH? Im a little puzzled by that last post. I don't mean to be DUH!!! But I thought feelings and emotions were part of what is generally known as reality? Am I wrong?
Quote from: ismusa on August 26, 2007, 01:48:20
I have lost someone that I'd rather choose an easy way out of this life than a jackpot if I were given the choice. I just can't see myself happy with even an amount greater than Bill Gates.
The lilfe of this world is just an illusion, life will actually go by faster when your having fun and rich. Then at the end when you're an old rich person you will not want to leave and wish to live longer so you can enjoy your fun longer.
I believe there is an indescribable bliss beyond this physical illusion.
So what I understand from your post, is that having fun in this life is useless, because you are waiting for the afterlife?
Or maybe you meant that money doesn't make you happy, I'm not sure.
Either way I disagree. Let's say you are right, and this life is just an illusion, why not enjoy it? Sure, a lot of people focus way too much, or in most cases 100%, on materialistic matters (which is in my opinion a bad thing), but by focussing 100% on spirituality you are doing exactly the same thing.
As for money, I believe it can make happy up to a certain extend. Ofcourse I value things such as friends and family more then money, but having a good and steady income makes life easier, and it enables you to focus on other things in life.
That's my take on it anyway, if I misinterpreted your post then I'm sorry.
- LittleJoe.
Quote from: budhabee on September 01, 2007, 15:04:21
HUH? Im a little puzzled by that last post. I don't mean to be DUH!!! But I thought feelings and emotions were part of what is generally known as reality? Am I wrong?
No they are just chemicals, but how we experience them is reality for us, but it's too subjective, that's why it's an illusion.
QuoteSure, a lot of people focus way too much, or in most cases 100%, on materialistic matters (which is in my opinion a bad thing), but by focussing 100% on spirituality you are doing exactly the same thing.
That's something I really agree with :) Its easy to get so lost in spirituality that you become ungrounded completely from this world that you came to live in. Spirituality is only important to the extent that you integrate it into this world
And back to the forum topic, yes morality is very subjective but objective morality can exist. Reduce the situation: say you're playing a poker game with a couple of people and you use ESP to take all of their money. That's totally immoral. You knew beforehand you would wind up with all of their money. You basically hid the fact that you have an advantage and agreed to a deal that they were unaware of that you would take all of their money. That's the same thing as the lottery situation except in reduced terms.
But then again they allowed it to happen...
I don't see why, if ESP existed you shouldn't use it for the lottery.
If you buy a lottery ticket even if you don't use ESP, you will still play to win.
People pray to win the lottery, they do everything they can to win it.
So IF ESP existed, it would become a daytime job for gambling.
Sharpe, you said everythong lol. thats my point! ;)
Hey cool someone agrees with me, that's a miracle.
Maybe there is a god?
I think i just found a new job :P hahah. couldnt hurt to try it right?
:) I agree with you but even if i didnt, i woudnt "smite" your "karma"...
Why do you have so bad karma in the forums?
Quote from: Sharpe on September 04, 2007, 19:56:57
Hey cool someone agrees with me, that's a miracle.
Maybe there is a god?
People don't like me because the way I argue, is an annoying experience.
Like at this moment I could say that the only reason you said you agreed on what I said in my post was because you wanted to group up and have someone on your side so your status would be higher on these forums.
When I explain this to people they tend to be defencive because they want to stay in a higher status.
If I would explain to them that they are merely following a pattern just like everyone else, this would go against their map of reality.
And the map does everything it can to rescue it's credibility.
So the solution of the map would be to let me lose credibility, and start finding patterns in my behaviour so he knows what I'm doing and bend that reality to the place where it would save their map from getting deleted.
Mostly people don't actually listen to what I'm saying, but they attack my personality.
And say that my personality is wrong so this would get into my map, to find the ideal role-model for finding a sexual partner.
But ofcourse I ignore their opinions because they have a different map.
For instance, my map believes that respecting others isn't neccesarily a good thing, just as much as respecting their opinions.
Unless they are correct.
I'm kind of stupid because I have the unstoppable urge to give my opinions and make others believe my map.
Oh, and I also like talking about myself, you can notice that!
Maybe studying machiavellism would help these 2 problems.
Thinking for yourself is never a bad thing :wink:
Sharpe, I never saw anyone attack your personality, but if they do that's totally not cool... I think your map is supercool :wink:
Sharpe, when you said: Like at this moment I could say that the only reason you said you agreed on what I said in my post was because you wanted to group up and have someone on your side so your status would be higher on these forums.
thats wrong! i dont care with such bullshi***. I came from times to times to these forums, i dont care with karma, but i saw your karma so low...thhats why i asked about that.
But this is offtopic!
I think i will create a new thread about lottery! lol
Quote from: sk8chik on September 07, 2007, 13:46:37
Sharpe, I never saw anyone attack your personality, but if they do that's totally not cool... I think your map is supercool :wink:
Thank you !
Quote from: Sharpe on September 04, 2007, 19:56:57
Maybe there is a god?
I never thought I'd see the day...
-AM
Quote from: Kazbadan on July 27, 2007, 14:28:31
You know, i am starting to get annoyed with stupid morality towards psy powers...lets suppose that i have the ability to predict the numbers of some toto lottery. Why shouldnt i use that power to get millionaire? Why is that immoral?
Isnt stupid saying "ohh! i will not use my power! its not fair"
bullsh**** its what i say
There is probably an external reason for you to have so much money, don't ya think? How much consciousness can you buy with it? If you, by chance, win your Kansas lottery, you win everything else too. I mean everything else that comes with it. You want it, you got it. I mean, who can take it away? Hold on, you better think about that. There might be a reason for you winning. You might be in an area where they are developing all sorts of things and you could spend youself into the biggest debt you could be in. Just like this big housing boom. You could become one of these scrupulous developers that was sucked into this loaning boom and find yourself with a lot of property with no takers or renters not paying. God is in there too now. He is the upright and exact one. You use these psychic abilities with His people. Are you sure that you are upright in your intentions and can you control them is the question to be asked. :roll: Ahhh, money. It's what makes the world go round.
Money equals status, that's how I look at it, greg.
Quote from: Sharpe on September 15, 2007, 15:46:00
Money equals status, that's how I look at it, greg.
This is definately correct in regards to general social psychology.
There are a few people who IMO fall outside of this. People like myself... I dont care for material possesions or money and status means nothing to me. In fact I pity the man who works hard at making his own business and sacrifices alot all for the sake of monetary gain. When you die that money means nothing... However, the mind is eternal. So some people who take a spiritual path dont care for things, money or status.
Im just sharing my opinion on this with you.
Money only creates suffering :(
You want a higher status or more money and you dont have it = you are unhappy.
You already have a high status and lots of money but you always want more = You are unhappy.
Some people are "happy" with what they have but I think you'll find in EVERY case people are always saying "oh, I wish I had this." or "I wish i was that"... = SUFFERING!
...money/status can never bring you true happiness IMO.
would you take candy from a small kid because you have the power to do so?
you would be taking money from people expecting to play on an even field.
but then, what if you predicted that an evil person was going to win, then you could win the money first,
and do good things with the money,
uh, that doesn't make sense does it? :?
I think you could find some kind of justification to ease your conscience. Sort of the way Al Gore compensates for his guilt of being an energy glutton by buying carbon footprint offsetts. :-D
Quote from: Mez on September 15, 2007, 21:35:21
This is definately correct in regards to general social psychology.
There are a few people who IMO fall outside of this. People like myself... I dont care for material possesions or money and status means nothing to me. In fact I pity the man who works hard at making his own business and sacrifices alot all for the sake of monetary gain. When you die that money means nothing... However, the mind is eternal. So some people who take a spiritual path dont care for things, money or status.
Im just sharing my opinion on this with you.
Money only creates suffering :(
You want a higher status or more money and you dont have it = you are unhappy.
You already have a high status and lots of money but you always want more = You are unhappy.
Some people are "happy" with what they have but I think you'll find in EVERY case people are always saying "oh, I wish I had this." or "I wish i was that"... = SUFFERING!
...money/status can never bring you true happiness IMO.
Mez...
I think you're going to see me as an moron after I say my opinion.
If I tinkle you off or anything I'm terribly sorry for adding this, just trying to keep you on top of some facts...
If you've ever read status-anxiety, Alain de Botton tells about this.
He tells that, people demeaning the status-hiërarchy are merely trying to change it to reflect it towards their own position as being the highest status.
In other words, what you are doing right now would be seen as you trying to make what you're doing/what you are putting your time in as the only possible path to the higher ranks of the status-hiërarchy.
I believe, status has to bring happiness, because that idea is allready in my subconscious.
It's close to impossible to delete all those memories of the previous years where I wasn't aware of what was actually going on.
I blame the majority of humans that are not capable of/not interested in seeing patterns in the universe.
And if money is what gives me a higher status, I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say that I wouldn't mind having all the money in the world.
Because status DOES bring happiness, it's not something hard to figure out.
I just don't think the definition of happiness should be an emotion because it's not.
It's not instant, it's like a flow, and once you're in it, you go for the ride for a long time.
This is why I think when you get the idea you're better than everyone and knowing that everyone worships you (picture that in your mind), you get the feeling of happiness...
Now don't discard the idea of being worshipped just because it sounds eerie of all the anchor's you may have witnessed like the stereotype of the word "worship" in cults.
If you go in your subconscious you may understand what I'm trying to tell.
To being happy, is IMHO to know that you have fought off the competition.
And you claim the prize of becoming the alpha male.
This feeling is definitely "hardware" material in your brain.
The brain gives the prize of happiness because you have obeyed the rules of evolution.
And you get privilages of females when you're a high ranking males.
Easier to find sexual partners, and respect from other males.
Love from others.
Isn't this what's actually the purpose of most of us men?
The receiving of these emotions or feelings is also very scary for me.
Because the neurotransmitters are released just by the observation and then the thought of reality.
Which after this goes very deep because I have just discovered this and I'm trembelling as I type this.
I have never thought of this but, what I said is more or less true.
It is just the observation, and then the IDEA of giving you authority to feel a feeling which you were prohibited to feel.
So most feelings are just an observation or better yet, a thought away of feeling.
So why does the observation of reality matter?
Maybe that's another system build into the brain.
You can never think and feel, seems logical, because if not: we would all be alone just feeling these wonderfull feelings and wasting our time not helping evolution, but just exploring the most eupohoric and ecstatic feelings given to us.
Darn it, I just have the feeling that there's something deeper in this but I just can't reach it at the moment.
It's a bit too late anyways, I'm going to bed.
Quote from: Sharpe on September 15, 2007, 23:50:39
If you've ever read status-anxiety, Alain de Botton tells about this.
He tells that, people demeaning the status-hiërarchy are merely trying to change it to reflect it towards their own position as being the highest status.
In other words, what you are doing right now would be seen as you trying to make what you're doing/what you are putting your time in as the only possible path to the higher ranks of the status-hiërarchy.
I understand this. In fact I made this same observation myself a few weeks ago. Its impossible for us to be devoid of status. Thefore we all fit somewhere within the heirarchy but i think its subjective not objective. But yes this is correct.
And no sharpe i dont think you're a moron! haha...
You're pursuit of knowledge of human psychology and physical existence is a good thing.
IMO you cant answer all of lifes questions by just looking at the physical...
Its like trying too see a whole room but only peering through the keyhole!
For me Astral Projection is that key to open the door...
You bring a lot of good info to this forum sharpe.
Thanks, I'm trying really trying to look above the physical.
Really, I am.
The idea of AP as an actual OBE could be just a thought, I just don't want to make the error of taking that as a model, because it gets too complicated if it's truth.
I mean, reality just doesn't fit in the map with different planes.
What could be extremely helpful is to look in ones subconscious, consciously.
This would be so amazing and breathtaking, because AP could be viewing everything in your subconscious.
Still, it's amazing, if it could be astableshed as a fact that this is true, psychologists can use this to heal people.
Not only that, this could be the pathway to the subconscious, no more theories about the subconscious, no more trouble with dreams and remembering them.
Every human being will be fully understood, just by them telling what's in their subconscious.
The most important subconscious thoughts will be put as a standard.
Then the smaller thoughts will build a whole map of reality for that person.
Everyone can look through the eyes of others.
But still for this, we need to know for sure if AP is OBE or a free view of the subconscious.
I haven't seriously AP'd so you don't have to take me seriously here :-D.
And about looking above the physical: the part where I get stuck with this is consciousness.
It's such a dilemma, it "looks" like we have freedom of thought, but in fact we don't.
Whoever was the architect, he likes to joke around.
Maybe even this is just to give us a feeling of being aware of ones self as a person.
To believe that you are the one and only, making it easier to claim the leader position.
Or it just might be that this is not the case.
I think it COULD be possible to figure out the purpose with some help of the ecosystem.
Let's face it, we aren't alone.
Just taking 2 major entities.
Plants and animals.
These 2 can't live without eachother.
The most troubling is just that plants are perfectly programmed, they do what they are programmed to do.
Just like a simple chemical reaction, but a bit more complicated...
But we animals, why are we so complex?
I just don't understand why plants are just to give us oxygen, and we animals have the ability to THINK.
There has to be more to us than just delivering compost and carbondioxide.
Or maybe, evolution hasn't ended yet...
Whatever it is, maybe our children will know :-P.
Money is nor good nor evil it just amplifies what is already there in you. If you are "bad" you will have more potential to do more "bad" stuff with the money or if you are "good" you could do much more "good" stuff.
We try to reach higher status or lot of money because we think this would bring us happinness and love from others. Actually, what we are longing for is intimacy with other humans and for that you dont need to be rich. If you have intimate relationships you will still be happy even though you are poor. But that's hard because we are afraid of opening up bc of fear of rejection so we put on social masks so others would like us for someone who we are not and that makes us sad.
And you cannot love others if you don't love yourself.
There is no good or evil, I think you have understand that now, or you never will.
Good is just the reflection of what is beneficial for yourself when looking at someones characteristics, which is why being good has been put as a higher ranking status.
(good= helping others before helping ones selve)
(evil= selfishly helping yourself while taking everything you can from others)
Put it however you want but you're doing the same thing Mez was doing.
I do not want to say you're lying here, but rich people are usually happier.
Because when you're rich you allow yourself to be happy.
I just sense a bit that you're avoiding the thought of materialism and prefer the idea of poetic writings so you always seem right.
This isn't neccesarily right, getting status eventually makes you happier.
I'm not going to get too deep on the masquerade, but it's true that people put social masks on.
However who we "are" may be not even there.
The way we show ourselves to people is more or less who we are.
So the way you seem to look at it, is if you rank low in the status-hiërarchy you have to have something in who you "really" are that compensates this?
I hear this often.
But... Some people are just better than others in every way.
There's no equilibrium in the status-hiërarchy, you're either high or you're low or you're somewhere around the middle.
The fact is, everyone is trying to get to the higher ranks.
Searching intimacy with people brings happiness, no doubt about it.
But even poor humans create a status-hiërarchy, it just differs from the rankings to what is actually the higher position.
Like good being higher than evil.
So if you're good, you achieve the intimacy when you're poor.
Just like being rich in this society.
Quote from: greggkroodsma on September 14, 2007, 16:27:38
There is probably an external reason for you to have so much money, don't ya think? How much consciousness can you buy with it? If you, by chance, win your Kansas lottery, you win everything else too. I mean everything else that comes with it. You want it, you got it. I mean, who can take it away? Hold on, you better think about that. There might be a reason for you winning. You might be in an area where they are developing all sorts of things and you could spend youself into the biggest debt you could be in. Just like this big housing boom. You could become one of these scrupulous developers that was sucked into this loaning boom and find yourself with a lot of property with no takers or renters not paying. God is in there too now. He is the upright and exact one. You use these psychic abilities with His people. Are you sure that you are upright in your intentions and can you control them is the question to be asked. :roll: Ahhh, money. It's what makes the world go round.
Whether the intentions are good or not is subjective, as is good and evil. If you think winning a lot of money in the lottery is a good thing, then by all means do so.
"Fair game"? Why should you miss the opportunity to get what you want, for the sake of fair game? It's not your fault you put in the effort to develop your powers and they didn't, is it? Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all a selfish person, I've given and helped plenty over the years. However you can't always think about the rest, at times it only holds you back, and at times it's important to think about yourself (which is not a bad thing).
You can deny it all you want, but money is important, and having a lot of money can be good thing, if you want it to be, and know how to handle it. Some people don't need it, others do.
Status not important? I remember being in france last year, and seeing this cathedral with big golden arches, artwork crafted into the stone as far as the eye can see, and an altar that blinds you if you don't wear your sunglasses. So yes, status is important for everyone, spiritual or materialist, religious or atheistic. Everyone is 'guilty' of it. And as with all things in life, not too much and not too little, find a balance.
If you can win the lottery by using psychic powers then do it. Spiritual consequences? What's the crime exactly? Are we saying that the lottery is controlled by spiritual forces? In which case no psychic ability would manipulate the outcome of who is going to win the money anyway.
If you can do it, do it. No need to put a karma connotation somewhere it need not be.
-AM
Quote from: Sharpe on September 16, 2007, 08:46:49
There is no good or evil, I think you have understand that now, or you never will.
Good is just the reflection of what is beneficial for yourself when looking at someones characteristics, which is why being good has been put as a higher ranking status.
(good= helping others before helping ones selve)
(evil= selfishly helping yourself while taking everything you can from others)
Put it however you want but you're doing the same thing Mez was doing.
I do not want to say you're lying here, but rich people are usually happier.
Because when you're rich you allow yourself to be happy.
I dont fully agree with you when you say rich people are usually happier... because often rich people are usually miserable. I think theres a lot of truth in those old sayings "money cant buy you happiness" and "money cant buy you love"
Is everyone who says that really just flat out wrong? No, I dont think really think so. Although there are two possibilities here.
People with a lower status could be saying it to compensate - IMO not the most likely reason but possible...
People of both status's high and low have made an observation and stated their findings - IMHO very true.
Having said that people who are well off can enjoy a very nice quality of life very comfortably which means more happiness. However people who sacrifice all they have for the sake of money wind up unhappy... IE they work over time a lot and are never there for their families or they are rich and so the only people who will pursue a relationship with them are what we know as "gold diggers" which will make them unhappy IMO.
Lets look at it from a wider perspective...
You say having money and status = happiness.
ok well we agree that for the majority of people this is true but its missing something.
Love, Money, Status = Happiness
This is a more complete model because if you ask anyone on earth what they really want and the answer will probly be "to be loved". Theres no denying this...
Now from a wider perspective still...
Love, Money, Status = Things People Want
Therefore...
Getting what you want = Happiness
Not Getting what you want = Unhappiness
If you get some of what you want but you're missing something then you will long to have that thing which will create suffering for you and lead to unhappiness unless this is resolved.
I think more often than not in this life people usually only get some of what they want and not all of it. So they always have a certain level of suffering which makes them a little bit unhappy.
The easiest way to get all of what you want is to want less... which is easily do able.
Now ponder this sharpe... If you wanted nothing would you be happy or unhappy?
Considering there would be nothing to create suffering for you and you would have everything you want.
Yeah, I knew that.
I was just trying to make a point.
Ofc every individual has their own model of reality which determines what makes them happy.
Beside that point, from expirience with seeing people in places high and low.
In my expirience people with a higher status were always happier...
Only the less intelligent people from the lower status, for what I've seen were happy (to a degree of unknowingness).
It just depends on the choice you want to make, either not to know about mass media, or to know and give your life to achieve what they want you to achieve.
It's not just the media, it has also to do with culture.
But, I'm not going to make the mistake of saying rich people are miserable, because they are not.
Living in ignorance makes me lose intelligence just because of my ideals bending the reality in my mind.
Sorry, but I just can't believe that resonably wealthy people should be unhappy.
I have expirienced enough to know this.
And yes eventually it's about love from others, or them looking up to you.
I just haven't seen a better way in this society to get this besides money/fame/power.
*nods* yeah
I dont think all wealthy people are unhappy.
I think like any level of status some are happy and some are unhappy.
It is impossible for every wealthy person to be perfectly happy and I think you must take this into account. Just as I have taken into account that its impossible for all wealthy people to be unhappy.
As for living in ignorance it depends on what you want to be ignorant about. haha. To be honest there are some things I like ignoring... Mass media being one of them. IMO those who pay attention to mass media become by inference ignorant because it is their only source of information. Their powers of observation diminish and so does their intelligence.
The opposite to ignorance is observation. People with very good powers of observation are very intelligent people and they are nearly always the people with lots of money and status! I have experienced this first hand.
People have a misperception of fame i think.
I think being famous would be one of the worst status's...
Even a lot of famous people say that...
What famous people really want is recognition for their work. Recognition of their physical self by the masses is a by product. One they generally tend to dislike... People always coming up to you, papparazi, your personal life all through the papers.
If you analyze celebrity relationships they seem very low quality IMO.
As for power? The power to do what? Rule a country??
I dunno it seems like a lot of stress and pressure comes with that job...
Even if its a small amount of power it has its pros and cons.
One mans power can make another man miserable...
Then again one mans power can make a positive difference.
Status is a funny thing isnt it?
It's just that, these celebrities are the people we take as role models.
Anyways I love the internet, gives people the choice to choose what they want to know instead of just absorbing every bit of information as truth.
Books are another thing which I adore.
I'm glad I can come here and talk with people about something else than what movie was on last night...
Quote from: Sharpe on September 16, 2007, 20:05:52
It's just that, these celebrities are the people we take as role models.
Exactly. More often than not they're poor role models. The best role models for children are their parents... certainly the most infuential. Sometimes they're poor role models too... :(
I plan on being the best role model I can when I have kids...
I'd raise them to be extremely mentally efficient and definately NOT ignorant.
Quote from: Sharpe on September 16, 2007, 20:05:52
I'm glad I can come here and talk with people about something else than what movie was on last night...
here here!
It also really bugs me when people pick up magazines and talk about celebrities like they know them personally. *shudders*
My moral problem is: if i had the money, should i spend it all with the poors? I am not exactly poor but my life is not easy. And i admit that is tempting to have such money (i dont have the power for seering the lottery numbers, btw, lol) not because of status! But because i woulnd need to be a slave of state! i wouldnt have to wake up every day at a given hour, or to do have an agenda, etc...i know that money dont bring happyness, but is absence may be the cause of much unhappyness. And please guys, dont start with philosphical questions: lets be real, if you didnt have any money you woulndt be thinking like that! and if you had lots of money, i wonder how much of you would spend it 99,9999% on helping other people.
dont say that please, because i wont believe.I believe in Mother Theresa and some other people like her...but other people like me (almost100% in the world) are more on the need of money than you think (oh, btw, M.Theresa was always praying for money and stressing due to the lack of it ;-))
Well that's the whole thing about lottery I suppose. Is the money being put to good use in the first place. Say we have in Australia a 32 million dollar lottery, which has happened before. Without using psychic powers to get the numbers, that amount of money could feed over 8000 families for 10 years in Africa.
Psychic or not, the money could be put to better use than to give it all to one person who could afford the luxury to gamble in the first place. I think we have a responsibility as men and women that is not currently being fully recognised.
-AM
Again, 'putting it to good use' is subjective. Organizations all over the world collect quite a bit of money. I would never donate to such a company, because it's useless. They use it to buy food, they eat it all in a couple of months and they are starving again.
So to me, that wouldn't be putting it to good use. You could use the money to put together a team of various specialists to design an infrastructure and educational system that they can maintain themselves. So they can build there own future.
Ofcourse these two idea's aren't all that different, but you catch my drift. Everyone has different opinions on what is good and what is not. If someone wants to use it to build himself a house of gold, then who are we to say it's a waste of the money?
Quote from: Kazbadan on September 18, 2007, 17:50:37and if you had lots of money, i wonder how much of you would spend it 99,9999% on helping other people.
Helping others is just the illusion of you being good, where in the opposite would be to being selfish and not help others which would give you the illusion of being evil.
If someone were to have a lot of money and be able to look above this, he or she will lead a very happy life spending that money and not caring about others.
Because why should he/she?
Apperantly he's lucky enough to have the money, why share if you only have 1 lifetime?
If you can be happy, why lose status by giving others status, which would automaticly lower your status.
No-one would be this naïve.
Still, good and evil is an illusion, selfishness is in us, you can't remove it.
If you act unselfish you go against who you are.
Just because these are moral rules made for unhappy people, doesn't mean you have to be miserable too.
Quote from: Kazbadan on September 18, 2007, 17:50:37
My moral problem is: if i had the money, should i spend it all with the poors? I am not exactly poor but my life is not easy. And i admit that is tempting to have such money (i dont have the power for seering the lottery numbers, btw, lol) not because of status! But because i woulnd need to be a slave of state! i wouldnt have to wake up every day at a given hour, or to do have an agenda, etc...i know that money dont bring happyness, but is absence may be the cause of much unhappyness. And please guys, dont start with philosphical questions: lets be real, if you didnt have any money you woulndt be thinking like that! and if you had lots of money, i wonder how much of you would spend it 99,9999% on helping other people.
dont say that please, because i wont believe.I believe in Mother Theresa and some other people like her...but other people like me (almost100% in the world) are more on the need of money than you think (oh, btw, M.Theresa was always praying for money and stressing due to the lack of it ;-))
I understand what your saying about using money to create freedom in your life. I totally agree with that and don't think it's selfish. It's my dream too. But instead of winning the lottery, I'm starting an internet business on the side and slowly building it up. To have the freedom I want, I just need to make the same income I make now, which to my calculations will take 2 or 3 years of hard work, and then I can work out of the home full-time, which to me is full-time freedom. It's going to be sweeeeet!!!
My point is, it's the freedom that's important, not the money. Finding freedom will lead you to be able to do other things, like help others find that same freedom. There are other ways of giving back than just cash, even if you did win the money in the lottery. You can still be a noble person without giving away money.
Quote from: LittleJoe on September 19, 2007, 11:39:18
Again, 'putting it to good use' is subjective.
I don't completely agree with this. I think we all at some level can distinguish that 32 million to one person is not as good as 32 million to 8000 families for 10 years. Perhaps this is just subjective and I suppose materialists would debate that this is just simply coincidence that millions of people would feel the same way as me. Having no collective reason. Having said that, I'd like to say that this particular example is not my point. I'm just highlighting the fact that there are certain ethical issues that are not taken into consideration that will, I think, inevitably catch up to us the longer we ignore them.
I'd say myself that there is some unspoken consensus, not on what is necessarily right and wrong, but definitely on what's more appropriate. Having a majority feel the similar way would say something other than subjectivity.
Now, has anyone actually won the lottery using psychic powers? If 1000 psychics did the same thing what would happen?
Having said that, it has been shown in quantum physics that matter can be effected by mind, so is it a case of clairvoyance or mental influence? Then the person with the most powerful mind can influence the game, but would they want to in such an enlightened state? It's actually a paradox I think.
-AM
But what would happen if 8000 families in Africa suddenly received a share of 32 million dollars? They'd probably be massacred and robbed, or worse.
I meant properly distributed and put to good use. Water schools etc. Not just thrown 32 million in cash.
That particular example wasn't my point. If you read my last post.
-AM
Still, the fact that millions of people believe in the same thing, doesn't mean it's not subjective. I hate to be cliché, but there was a time people believed the world was flat.
I agree with Sharpe here. Mostly good deeds like these are done to justify being 'selfish' or 'immoral' in other area's.
There was an experiment once, they kept record of how many parents picked up their children to late at a daycare center. Lets say that there were an average of 5 late parents (I forgot the exact numbers). After a while they made a new rule, if you came in late, you had to pay 10$. You would say everyone would be in time, 10$ is quite a lot. But it was quite the opposite, about 15 parents on average ran late. The fine enabled them to buy of their guilt. This is basically what charity is all about.
I can keep driving my SUV, throwing trash on the ground even though the trashcan is 10 feet away, use way more electricity then I need. I can have sex with that girl and then not call back and buy shoes that are made by children slaves. Hmm, I feel pretty bad now that I.. HEY LOOK support african children for only 3$ a month! man I'm such a good person.
Not that I do not do anything of the afore mentioned things, I do, but I don't feel bad about them afterwards, because It's who I am (and most of us are).
This is what 'good' is all about 90% of the time.
If you can help a friend in need, you're very happy to help them, no matter what it takes. Helping a stranger? This is usually done against your will, you just feel bad (read: immoral) if you don't do it. There are few people truly interested in helping, and this is even more true when it concerns money. Someone you barely know, a colleague or someone from school you barely know comes up to you, and asks you to download and burn that movie, because he still has that slow connection. You honestly can't be bothered to, because you hate those kind of movies, but you do it anyway. "It can come in handy later, if I need a favour". Another famous excuse for "I don't want to be immoral". And how many times is that favour actually returned? That's right.
I say save your love and energy for those who deserve it, your friends and family
That last part doesn't neccesarily needs to be the case because we don't do favours so we can get back a favour.
Which would be logical, but humans aren't systematic in that nature, they are but in a whole different way.
The reason we help people out is to raise our status to be better than them.
Fitting in the value's and morals of our society just makes our personalities closer to the social ideal, raising our status ofcourse.
And yes, exactly, that $3 a week doesn't make up for any disbehaviour against morals.
If you do have a large ammount of money it would be wise to use that money for yourself and your close ones so you can be happy together with them.
If you donate, you lose this oppertunity, just so that some other people can be happy.
It's absolutely selfish, but your life is your life, their life is theirs.
You got lucky, they got unlucky.
in some ways i tottaly agree and some ways i disagree...
you say they are unlucky... i disagree with this because i dont subscribe to the notions of "luck" and "chance" i say they chose to be like that. So if they chose to be like that who are we to interfere? *shrugs* Then again if people want to help them thats their choice too for whatever reason. Buying off their guilt? yeah pretty much although some people who are really into their humanitarian causes may just have a lot of empathy for them but for 99.9% of people thats not the case.
If i won the lotto i'd use it to help out all my family that needs it so we can all live comfortably. There are no starving african children in my family although... if my family were really well off or whatever I would "charitable"... but not out of guilt, out of compassion. I see everything holisticly so the way i see them is they are a part of me... so it would just be helping out a part of me however my family is closer so they go first :) it makes perfect sense to me.
as for favours?
I like karma yoga... Adherence to duty with detachment from reward.
If I feel its my duty to do something I just do it to do it...
If I dont feel like its my duty to do something... well I just dont do it.
Well Mez, you can't actually choose being rich right?
Just like how you can't quit poverty.
Being rich has more to do with luck than anything else.
Just from my expirience, if you read a lot of get-rich books, you'll see that there's absolutely no pattern.
They try, they really do to find one, but becoming rich has absolutely no pattern, it's just luck.
I see where you're coming from and i disagree with you there but thats ok we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Although I will say this...
Maybe there is no pattern in the actions people take to get rich but there are patterns in their thinking?
If getting lucky is the only way to get rich and luck implies that things have no set pattern then rich people have no set pattern in their thoughts OR actions? If this is the case then one rich man could be a total dumbass and the next a genius but i think the case is different. There are patterns in their thinking.
Ofc, they have patterns in their thinking.
I said before, my beliefs on humans is that all of them are programmed the same way.
But dumbasses get rich sometimes, and sometimes geniousses get poor.
Money doesn't look at someone being smart or dumb.
They... just get lucky...
That particular example wasn't my point. I was talking about the role of ethics in politics. Why we are intelligently arguing about subjectivity, people are starving. That's unethical to me.
Yes I'd agree some people do donate to Charity to relieve guilt. Some give for good reasons as well. Usually if it's not our problem we ignore it. I can get away with a lot of things because it doesn't immediately effect me. Well that was the case decades ago, now global warming does effect us. Things are continually going to effect us. That's what I'm saying. Africa is but one example of a much larger problem. The lottery is another.
The Japanese consider luck a type of emotion not an influencing factor in things.
-AM
well you made your point when you said most poeple say "it doesnt affect me"... most poeple just dont care...
well if you wanna win the lottery get as much skill as derron brown has then hit up the casino. Then you can buy africa a meal if you want.
I don't see a problem in using psychic powers to win money. Are there any psychics online who have tried this before?
-AM
My moral is very simple:
1) I try to help myself 1st. If i cant help myself i cant even think on helping others
2) Then i will help other people, sometimes with some sacrifice:
a) Sacrifice for myself (Like: "if i help my boss covering the fact that he has an affair with XYZ girl, i will risk myself at the eyes of other people, but i may get a promotion" whatever)
b) Sacrifice because i like someone (its like a) option for all effects).
c) Real sacrifice because sometimes i feel good
3) Then i wil start thinking on helping other people, if that doens harm myself. So if i get rich i will help other people if that does not cost me a lot.
4) I will avoid at all costs to get up in my life by using other people or having it get unhappy because of my acts. This is very important to me. Sometimes i most to choose...in that case:me and my family 1st, then...the others. Thats selfish, isnt it? I dont care, i am not Buddha yet -_-
About being rich: luck & using people. I see some rich people in my family. How do they get there? By luck and by being mother f*** to some people. That goes against 4). So i dont use it. Thats why i am not rich and thats why winning lottery by the use of psy poweres make sense to me (because i am not doing any bad to anyone and because i dont believe on bullshits [like: "using psy powers for winning moneyyaddayadda will make spirits get anger" an shi** like that...].
If that would really stop hunger in Africa, believe me that i be the 1st supoorting that cause.
But i am selfish enough to say that if i win the money, it wouldnt be me giving the money.
Quote from: Awakened_Mind on September 19, 2007, 09:12:46
Well that's the whole thing about lottery I suppose. Is the money being put to good use in the first place. Say we have in Australia a 32 million dollar lottery, which has happened before. Without using psychic powers to get the numbers, that amount of money could feed over 8000 families for 10 years in Africa.
Psychic or not, the money could be put to better use than to give it all to one person who could afford the luxury to gamble in the first place. I think we have a responsibility as men and women that is not currently being fully recognised.
-AM
That particular example wasn't my point. No wonder no one ever brings up Africa.
-AM
If global warming is an actual problem, which I do not believe.
Then it would be wise NOT to give Africa money because they could increase the problem by raising consumers.
I just gotta be honest and absolutely objective here, it would work better for everyone if they would just be dead...
I mean they bring more problems than solutions.
They have AIDS anyway, someone obviously doesn't want them.
I don't blame him...
lolll. thats one way to look at it. You know theres FAR worse things than global warming... Global warming probly wont kill us in the next decade but codex alimentarius just might. Soon we'll all be like africa... sick and starving. Only the rich people will have enough money for medicine the poor people will just die. Fun stuff.
How would THAT ever happen lol...
I mean I agree humans are way dumb, espescially with using multiple languages or measurings like celcius/kelvin/fahrenheit and kilometer and miles.
They all mean the same thing... so why?
Anyway, I do believe that we DO know how to survive and I don't think we'll see any armageddon untill the sun reaches its expiration date lol.
QuoteI mean I agree humans are way dumb
Well, you just proved your idea about human intelligence. Good job!
People use different languages because they made up different languages. The effort required to teach all six billion people the same language fluently, as well as to convince everyone that this one language was better than their native languages (and native tongues die hard) would be significantly greater than any possible advantages of doing so. So what if everyone speaks English? All that effort just means that you don't have to use translators or learn foreign languages anymore. A colossal waste of time, effort and resources.
Different measurements are applied in different circumstances. Kelvin is used scientifically (in fact, it's the SI unit for temperature) because it is impractical to use celsius/fahrenheit when talking about sub-zero temperatures. However, celsius and fahrenheit are used by most people because they are suited to the range of temperatures that normal people tend to use, such as on weather reports or recipes.
Next you'll be suggesting that the government should just print out money and give it to everyone to get rid of poverty. :roll:
A common language is necessary to unite mankind. How are we to co-operate without clear understanding. Hence the evolution of telepathy, a language that is not defined by culturally sanctioned dictionaries or geographic location. A language that is written in the human DNA.
-AM
Doringo, we don't need celsius or fahrenheit, kelvin is enough for everything.
Beside that point we DO NOT need more than 1 language.
You obviously didn't think this through.
The way that you only use 1 language globally could work like this: You only teach 1 language to the new generations of children.
Now the older generation will still know the native language the new generation and older will communicate through this language (if the older generations do not know the 1 language) (this language will be tought in school because of the unknowingness of the older generation).
After the new generation has offsprings they will only speak in the 1 language used.
After the oldest generation has past away, everyone will know the language so using other languages would be unneccesary.
That's it, now everyone speaks 1 language.
This is a very logical solution to a dumb problem humans have created.
Removing celsius and fahrenheit would be way easier than this.
"Next you'll be suggesting that the government should just print out money and give it to everyone to get rid of poverty."
I believe that this metaphor was absolutely irrelevant to what I said.
This leads to my conclusion that everything you have mentioned in your post is of no value to me.
And that my solutions would work if used, contrary to not doing them and wasting time in learning these languages instead of investing time to learning the "truth" of our universe.
Good day! :x
Doringo - methinks someone has just thrown his toys out of the pram... :wink:
Sarah
Quote from: Sharpe on September 22, 2007, 15:57:41
The way that you only use 1 language globally could work like this: You only teach 1 language to the new generations of children.
Now the older generation will still know the native language the new generation and older will communicate through this language (if the older generations do not know the 1 language) (this language will be tought in school because of the unknowingness of the older generation).
After the new generation has offsprings they will only speak in the 1 language used.
After the oldest generation has past away, everyone will know the language so using other languages would be unneccesary.
That's it, now everyone speaks 1 language.
This is a very logical solution to a dumb problem humans have created.
But here's the thing: To educate the entire 'new generation' of humanity, you'd need to convince
every single government to teach in what is most likely a foreign language to them. Such a drastic change to the status quo probably won't be taken well, so they won't agree. So I guess you'd need to conquer the world, wouldn't you?
Besides, if you destroy every other language except one 'human' language, you will lose the individuality and uniqueness of all the other languages. While language barriers can sometimes be quite awkward (but easily bypassed), language itself is a work of art and a terrible thing to just get rid of.
If you meant to suggest that everyone be taught the 1 language as a 'second language', consider that French is required learning in schools in the UK. How many English people are fluent in French? Exactly.
QuoteI believe that this metaphor was absolutely irrelevant to what I said.
This was in response to your apparent supposition that all it would take to make all these things a reality would be for the government to take action. e.g. to all start teaching one language only. The rather obvious disadvantages caused by that are ignored and instead the fact that it hasn't happened yet is used as evidence that humanity is somehow 'dumb'.
Yeah...
But, I didn't mean that the government would approve it, I meant that IF they did, it would work.
The people would never go along with it.
When did that ever stop the goverment?
the goverment engineer it so that the people beg for crap like that. thats how they roll