Hi Patrik !!
For a couple of days, try getting up earlier (or much later), eating slightly less, and exercising harder than you would normally do.
Getting up earlier is more effective that getting up later.... chances are you would be lying in bed awake. The effect this has is to change your body's natural clock, ever so slightly.
The exercise is my top tip. It will enable your muscles to relax more fully, as well as naturally sending your body towards sleep at a faster rate than normal.
After this, it is simply(!) a matter of keeping yourself from drifting into sleep !!!!
One more thing....If you go about this during a regular day, and then practise OBE before bedtime, it probably won't work...you'll just fall asleep....or get irritated, and give up, then go to sleep.
Try this (assuming you don't work at the weekend). Friday evening: Go running / swimming till you are quite tired. Eat just enough, not too much, afterwards. Sleep.
Saturday : Wake at about 5.30...go for a run again....come back home, stay awake till about 10-11am ...NOW practise.
regards.
Mark
Hi Patrik,
Im a Certified Advanced Hypnotist and you can reach a deeper state of Somnambulism with some different techniques that we use.
By doubling tripling then going 10 times deeper doing this 3 times, then fractionation's. That would be like counting from 1 to 7,000 in a short period of time with the new techniques.
Once in that Deeper Somnambulistic State you can stay there for hours or as long as you want.
While your in that State a KEY WORD will be given to you so when you say it in your mind you will go back into that same deep relax state again in seconds.
I'm on palatal and I have a chat room with audio. In my room I do group Hypnotic Astral Travel. If your interested in trying it your welcome. If you don't have palatal its http://www.paltalk.com its a free down load. Once there Click on groups from there scan down to bottom and see Miscellaneous click on that twice and then look for Astral Hypnosis Room.
The password to enter is AP projection.
If your interested in trying it out e-mail me at hypnotist41@aol.com or on Astral Pulse PM. Give me a time and I will open the room. You can even bring a friend also to try it out.
Sincerely,
Frank (hypnotist)
clandestino,
I have tried practising during mental fatigur, however not with physical and can be worth a try. Problem with this is still that I need to get the body used to entering this state, and I doubt entering it a few times using fatigue would make a huge difference. However it is defenetely worth a try, anything is worth a try, thanks.
hypnotist,
I have sent you a private message.
MajorTom,
I have ceased the usual meditation practise for the time being, focusing this time solely on trying to enter the hypnogogic state. However since my body is so used to this, it seems to want to put me into the usual meditative state on it's own. But I guess sooner or later it has to give in, question is just how.
I have tried to use visualization a number of times in order to approach the sleep boarder, and in hope to "kick start" the process. However so far there hasn't been much of a luck. Though it is a good idea, and I will continue with it in hopes that it eventually will give results. I think you are right with the "let go of the lesh" suggestion though. The few times I do manage to get images during trance/meditation wanting to approach sleep (only thought images, not hypnogogia) me being used of clearing the mind quickly removes them without a second thought. I think I need to learn how to "force" the mind into thinking in images, and once that happens learn to accept them, and not just quickly dismiss them like usual.
Thanks all for the replies, now I at least have some more things worth trying.
it's really quite simple (and hard) to get there.. all you have to do is listen.
But first in order to listen, you have to turn your CONSCIOUS mind off.... how do you do that?
Here's what I've found.
during the middle of the day
->lie down, turn a fan on, listen to it, take the first thought to enter your head..... repeat it over and over until a new one enters your head, repeat that one over and over, etc.... now of course, you will in time notice that dozens of thoughts are coming (you aren't trying to silence them, just notice them) and you can only choose a few random ones at a time to repeat....... this will eventually turn your unconscious mind on and the thoughts should start having sounds to them.
->alternatively... just use one mantra over and over, perhaps 54321, 54321.
->just LISTEN to the fan, try as hard as you can to only listen to the fan.... after you can't do that anymore, try as hard as you can to listen to your thoughts, but not engage them or create them... and couple that with the noise of the fan.
This works best if I'm tried, but restless, sore, cannot get back to sleep.
->open your eyes, stare at something, think as loudly and quickly and coherently as possible, try your hardest to string together assocation after association such as (i'm bored, this won't work, man i'm tire,d i'll be there soon, keep going.... blah blah blah) it produces gaps in thought and falling asleep sensations follow.
You enter the hypnagogic state by no longer paying attention to the conscious mind, paradoxically shutting it off, making conscious hypnagogic entry near impossible (as far as i've been able to tell).... and there are a huge number of ways to do this, but simply doing some sort of repetetive mantra that doesn't have any meaning to you while trying to pay attention and acknowladge any thoughts that pop up, works best...
It might go something like you are listening at first, and then when you start repeating a thought to occupy the surface mind, you hear a barrage of unconscious thoughts pop up, and you try and focus on a few, and then conciously acknowladge that they exist, and perhaps choose one of them to replace the previous thought that you were repeating.
This helps you get intune with the unconscious mind, and when you get deep enough you can just naturally listen without having to do much focusing.... until you start falling asleep.
I hope this helps in some way.. these are all my own observations from trying to figure out what exactly produces the falling sensation and the sudden loss of coherent conscious attention.
holy reality,
Thank you for your reply, you have a lot of interesting ideas. Most of them I have tried, but not in the manner and intensity that you describe. This problem of mine is getting more and more annoying. I had no such problems when starting out, I can get quite deep and lower my brain waves, but just not activate my subconcious.
I appreciate your reply, and will do some serious practise with them, thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by Patrik
holy reality,
Thank you for your reply, you have a lot of interesting ideas. Most of them I have tried, but not in the manner and intensity that you describe. This problem of mine is getting more and more annoying. I had no such problems when starting out, I can get quite deep and lower my brain waves, but just not activate my subconcious.
I appreciate your reply, and will do some serious practise with them, thanks.
Well, what do you mean by lower your brainwaves? If you get them low enough you should drift into paralysis (and i really have no idea what frequency this is, REM paralysis is said to occur during beta, which just... confuses me to no end, like, how do you meditate into something you are already into by default? Do you have to go to delta then all the way back up to beta?)
But.... at any rate, I have the exact opposite, I can't shut the subconscious up, it takes control of me and my hypnagogic images, and it is SO DISORIENTING..... "blah blah b lah blah " BAM you're awake... blah blah blah blah BAM you're awake.... "DAMN YOU SUBCONSCIOUS, LET ME FOCUS......." blah blah blah blah BAM you're awwake....
I mean... EVEN WHEN I'M REALLY TIRED ... I can't even get to sleep..... I'm sure I've somehow in getting close to hypnagogics, conditioned myself to associate them with losing control, I need reprogramming or something... I don't know.
It's horrible, I've been trying to do this for months, it gets to where I can choose from being too alert, or being not alert enough, if I try and ride the fine line down into conscious sleep, it just doesn't work.
I've tried rope, visualizations, mantras, etc when I get close to falling back in, too, about the only option I have left is to tape record myself saying "go deeper, do not exit, you are in control, constantly deeper" or something like that and loop it over and over.
Which might not be a bad idea.
holy reality,
First of all, sleep paralysis does not occure in beta, beta is above 13Hz and where you are most of the time during the day. The state belove beta is the alpha state, and is where you do zen-meditation, are drowsy, increased learning potential and thinking etc. The alpha state are between 8 to 12Hz.
The next state is the theta state, and are usually associated with deep meditation, enhanced creativity, light sleep and dreaming. It is in the theta range REM sleep occure, and hence also sleep paralysis. The theta state ranges from 4 to 8Hz. Delta is the next step, and as you probably know, and is ranging from 0 to 4Hz, and is dreamless sleep, and coma.
If I would do a guess, I would think I can attain the upper theta range of brainwaves, but since I cannot activate the subconcious mind, this is all I can do. Even though I am yet to succeed in doing so, I have had some progress with your suggestions. A few times thanks to your suggestions I have managed to shut up the concious mind. I have only succeeded with this a very few times, about 2 times, but at least it's progress. However I have yet not been able to attain hypnogogia. The times this happened, I have simply had no awareness at all, not sure if I was gone for 2 minutes or 30 minutes, not asleep but not aware either.
I can imagine the opposit being just as annoying, but at least you have an easy time in attaining the sleep boarder, and that is very beneficial, if you can just learn to use it to your advantage. Perhaps I am not the best source to give suggestions regarding this, since I cannot even attain the boarder ;) But the key to go deeper than hypnogogia and remain concious is concentration. Since you have an easy time to attain the hypnogogic state, have you tried entering it, let yourself break out of it a few times. After doing this, you know you should be able to attain it again in just a few minutes. Now put all your concentration upon one single thing, an affirmation, mantra, heart beat etc. And let yourself drift down, while still staying 100% concentrated on the specific task?
When I began to practise projection and meditation there were no problem reaching the hypnogogic state, nor getting close to sleep without actually falling asleep. However this has changed, nowadays it is basically impossible to even get remotely close to sleep. This has bothered me some time now, but only recently it has become a real annoyance. I recently have come to realize that in order to progress in a good way from where I currently am, I need to learn to approach the hypnogogic state - which is basically impossible.
I am pretty sure I know the reason for this problem though. A while back, perhaps 2 months ago I decided that I wanted to master silence of mind. Silence of mind has many benefits, both for meditation and otherwise. However I probably went about it the wrong way, and instead of doing it progressively while maintaining a good deep meditative state, I just turned off all monologue all together.
Eventually I think I became pretty good at it. I managed to get into a quite deep trance state, feeling energy "buzzing" throughout the entire body every time I meditated (not projection symtoms). As well as going from only the 3rd eye chakra active, to crown and throat without energy raising.
However doing this, shutting of the monologue, and putting more effort in this instead of reaching a good near-sleep boarder and maintain the meditation there. Seems to also have caused the body to get accostumed to not entering a near-sleep state during meditation sessions. So now when I realize I really need to approach this state, it is litterally impossible.
It does not matter what I do, it just isn't possible. I can keep concentrated upon one task, foce mind chatter, no chatter, pretending to go to sleep etc, without approaching the sleep boarder or hypnogogic state.
It should perhaps be added that my 3rd eye and crown are really going on my nerves at times. The fact that I seem to have made the body accostumed not to enter the state I want, should be enough. But that my 3rd eye and crown chakras are going haywire everytime I try to meditate or approach sleep, sure doesn't make it easier. Feels like I wear a tight heavy helmet with extra pressure and pulsation at the 3rd eye spot. Approaching sleep with this in itself is more than hard.
Seems the post got quite long for such a basic question, but want to make sure I am not being missunderstood. If anyone has any suggestions, hints etc they are welcome. I don't want to take a "break" a couple of months just to get back to the beginning. Please don't come with suggestions such as "keep concentrated", or "don't think about it" etc.
Thanks