Hi
Wondering about life the universe and everything, I wrote this. Your thoughtful comments are most welcome.
Are We Living Within A Virtual Reality?
Real Universe?
If we think about the TRON movie - when inside the computer the consciousness is the thing doing the experiencing and might think of where it came from as 'the real universe'.
Yet in the Matrix movie, the 'real universe' is not where Neo came from, but where he woke up in - plugged into the machine.
Which universe is 'real'? - How would consciousness know except to say that wherever it finds itself occupied and experiencing, THAT is the real universe, because the only real thing is Consciousness.
Lets say that this universe we are occupied within now - the physical one - life on Earth is a simulation.
Lets say that there are two main teams of entities. They are playing a game.
These entities are us, playing a game.
But not 'us' as we think of ourselves in this universe.
The object of the game is to outwit the opposition in order to win the game - one team is trying to get its humans to build a paradise for themselves on the planet - (which is the game field) the other team is trying to get the humans to build a prison for themselves on the same 'battle' field. (Earth)
In 'the real world' of the game players neither team are actually enemies. They are simply playing a game.
The rules of the game say that the team which is trying to get the 'humans' to create a prison for themselves are allowed to lie, cheat, disrupt, infiltrate...you name it...in order to achieve the goal.
The goal is not only to get the prison built, but to secure it completely so that the other team has no moves left and End Game.
The other thing about the game is that the teams playing are doing so from two perspectives - a part of their consciousness is actually being within the game played. Within the life forms - specifically the human life forms (the played).
The greater part of the players consciousness is in their real world.
Another aspect of the game is that the played - the humans - also have a say in what happens in the game being played.
In order for this to happen, the humans have to connect with the player - think of a SIM - you observe the SIM going about his/her normal business within the game completely unaware they are even in a game.
Then your SIM starts to piece together clues which lead it to behavior which allows for the possibility of connection and communication with you - the player.
The process of connection - SIM to Game-Player is rare and can aid the player toward another goal.
Players have to align their game play depending on what their humans choose.
This means that should a players human choose to work for building paradise on the game field and the player was on the build a prison team - then the player aligns its game play support to the 'build a paradise' team and vice versa.
Earth is not even the only level of the Game - the human eventually dies and goes to the next level, which is even more complex - so there are a number of goals the players are trying to achieve with their human SIMS - remembering that each human is an aspect of the player - literally part of the players consciousness.
To add to the complexity - the consciousness of the player within the game-piece of the human is normally like a silent observer - experiencing the human's life but not being that human. Sometime a player (regardless of what team it is on) will subtly manipulate the human piece in certain directions if the human is 'sensitive' to that process.
The player – in placing an aspect of its consciousness into the human piece to 'power it up' causes something to be created which is called "Ego" which is used by the human to make sense of his existence and the ego exists precisely because the player remains largely a silent observer - the human does not know that he/she is actually a player with an entirely different existence - the human is born and other egos which were formed before it was born explain to it what it is and why it exists and thus the ego is shaped or reproduced by those egos already existing.
If the individual ego follows a path which has it questioning its existence, the things it has been taught by other egos etc...that ego has a better chance of connecting with that silent observer - the game player - and if that occurs then the game changes - not the whole game, but that egos part in the game.
As mentioned, upon death of the human form, depending on its level of understanding and belief systems and other factors, that conscious ego continues in the new game level.
The next level (after death) is a continuation from the first level. It is still part of the simulation but the game field has changed.
The extended object of this whole game is to get all the players on the same team.
This means that in order to do so, the human ego has to understand fully what it is and where it originates - that it is not just the product of the egos which came before it and educated it but it is way more than this...when this is fully achieved, the human 'wakes up' as the player. But not just as the player...but as a player who has gone through the process of being within the game and from within the game came to the realization that it is not just the ego but is the player...like the two merge and are one - so the player has - by playing the game - become something else through that process.
So if we (humans/egos) assume that we live in a simulated universe could relativity be false in the real universe?
The 'real universe' from the player's perspective is outside the game being played. It is the highest level achievable within the game context because when the object is achieved, that player has won the game and can leave the game.
As to the possibility that once the player leaves the game, is that players reality part of another game being played, the answer is likely 'yes' and the player needed to go through the 'Earth/Astral' game and win it in order to then play the next game.
So individual players can win the game by no longer being part of it due to their bringing the ego human into full consciousness and literally bringing that out of the Earth/Astral game field and into the players own reality.
The other players, who are still working their humans or simply going along with the ride, are still in the game.
If the real win of the game is to bring a human ego out of that game and into full consciousness as to what it is and where it derived then why are the players working to use the humans to either build a paradise or a prison on the game-board? (Earth)
*The answer has to do with a game that is being played at yet another level using the players as pieces by yet another level of game players who created the game players universe (game-board) which those game-players (the ones which created the Earth game and use human game pieces) are unaware of...they too did not realize that they were pieces in another game and thus come to that awareness in much the same way as the human ego comes to that awareness.
The game (paradise or prison) had an unexpected twist...an unlikely possibility.
A possibility which the 'prison' team are allowed to undermine using whatever tricks they are able to come up with.
The prison team whose humans try and connect with them will create the necessary illusions in order that those humans work for the process of prison building. If those humans see through the illusion and change their alliance then the player shifts its support to the paradise team The human pieces can individually connect with their game players through the common thread of consciousness and in doing so allow the player to realize that there was more to the game than simply trying to get humans to build a paradise or a prison...and through this realization another level opens up to their awareness...*
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 26, 2012, 17:13:05
The game (paradise or prison) had an unexpected twist...an unlikely possibility.
A possibility which the 'prison' team are allowed to undermine using whatever tricks they are able to come up with.
The prison team whose humans try and connect with them will create the necessary illusions in order that those humans work for the process of prison building. If those humans see through the illusion and change their alliance then the player shifts its support to the paradise team The human pieces can individually connect with their game players through the common thread of consciousness and in doing so allow the player to realize that there was more to the game than simply trying to get humans to build a paradise or a prison...and through this realization another level opens up to their awareness...*
[/i]
WoW - wish we had a 'clap' smilie, wi11iam - brilliantly thought-out! love your 'wonderings' - very similar to what i've been pondering regarding this 'game' experience. thanks for sharing your thoughts! 8-)
Quote from: Taz on July 26, 2012, 17:30:59
WoW - wish we had a 'clap' smilie, wi11iam - brilliantly thought-out! love your 'wonderings' - very similar to what i've been pondering regarding this 'game' experience. thanks for sharing your thoughts! 8-)
No Probs Taz - spread the word...! :)
We are indeed 'the imaginations of our selves' ;)
To some part that is what T Campbell is stating (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_book_reviews/quotmy_big_toequot_thomas_campbell-t29753.0.html). I think the computer game description
is in Volume II of his book (which sadly enough is the most boring part, in my opinion).
What bothers me is that Campbell doesn't provide anything to support his idea, so if
you go OBE or otherwise, please look for any experiences which could prove one
theory or another. Then come back and tell us.
Well written Wi11iam :)
Hi,
Looking at the basics of the physical existance. We are in a time flow situation. We hqve only 3 dimensions of space omnipresent. A few anomalities exist and these spell out a fingerprint of being part of a larger system.
There's at present conciousness branded as subjective. If everyone within our 3d space was a shaman then subjectivity would be re-assessed.
Looking at these anomalities will show the bigger picture only if the proposed wider reality is correctly worked out. Its the same if we drop a dimension to 2d which humans can understand. Cast a shadow from a 3d shape, can you guess what it is? Answer most probably.
Back to 3d these anomolies are the shadow of the wider reality so can you now work it out? Answer not a chance. Why? We are in a 3d limited universe and have no conception of more than we can see.
Theres too many points to make for q thread, it would require a book of mwny pages and still not have an accurate answer. One day someone will prove to all the wider reality exists. Lets hope it one of those important scientists. At we may have a voice.
Quote from: Pauli2 on July 27, 2012, 06:59:25
To some part that is what T Campbell is stating (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_book_reviews/quotmy_big_toequot_thomas_campbell-t29753.0.html). I think the computer game description
is in Volume II of his book (which sadly enough is the most boring part, in my opinion).
What bothers me is that Campbell doesn't provide anything to support his idea, so if
you go OBE or otherwise, please look for any experiences which could prove one
theory or another. Then come back and tell us.
I think Puali2 that this type request is most often expressed by skeptics. Even if anyone were to go and then return and give report of their experience does not constitute evidence which will prove one theory or another.
The thing about the OP is that is embraces all. It is a parable but its actual focus is upon the individual - the personality experiencing their subjective reality within the framework of the objective or shared reality, which is most often seen as the Physical Universe.
The focus of the OP is also on the Human Potential to create a Paradise rather than a Prison, here on the Earth.
So in that, it is also about understanding the deeper relationship the individual has with their 'other-worldly' experiences and how these experiences relate to and can assist THIS reality for the better.
The subjective experiences which are part of this objective shared reality - these are like maps and when they are shared, they can be placed together much as peers in the science community share their own findings...
It is not possible to bring evidence of other dimensions/universes back into this one as hard physical evidence which can be measured and understood scientifically.
To the skeptic who say 'prove it' I say 'you will have to do the work yourself, and find the evidence.'
Much as Frank Kepple did in relation to his own skepticism.
:)
Quote from: Szaxx on July 27, 2012, 12:01:01
Hi,
Looking at the basics of the physical existance. We are in a time flow situation. We hqve only 3 dimensions of space omnipresent. A few anomalities exist and these spell out a fingerprint of being part of a larger system.
There's at present conciousness branded as subjective. If everyone within our 3d space was a shaman then subjectivity would be re-assessed.
Looking at these anomalities will show the bigger picture only if the proposed wider reality is correctly worked out. Its the same if we drop a dimension to 2d which humans can understand. Cast a shadow from a 3d shape, can you guess what it is? Answer most probably.
Back to 3d these anomolies are the shadow of the wider reality so can you now work it out? Answer not a chance. Why? We are in a 3d limited universe and have no conception of more than we can see.
Theres too many points to make for q thread, it would require a book of mwny pages and still not have an accurate answer. One day someone will prove to all the wider reality exists. Lets hope it one of those important scientists. At we may have a voice.
Hi Szaxx
A shadow moves with the shadow caster. In one sense the shadow is us and the shadow casters are the Players...yet there is that element of individual power which is something which makes the game interesting for all involved.
What is it that makes the shadow possible? - This is the element of the Players Players. That is what we each can connect with, which allows for the Player to see beyond the focus of the Game it is playing - to outside the game being played.
We can - as pieces, share our maps and together see the picture which is emerging. While we are here sharing this dominant reality together, there is no reason why we cannot bring our focus on personally aligning with the prospect of creating paradise on this Planet.
We - as a specie are going nowhere else for the time being. We are obviously most attracted to this experience as we each wake up from sleep/OOBE/lucid dreams/astral etc...but we are yet to connect these together and not simply wake - but awaken and not simple awaken but RISE and SHINE.
:)
After watching Through the Wormhole and some other Science Channel programs I believe we are living in a virtual classroom. It seems that Science today in general is finding all different ways to manipulate the "human" experience. Actually it seems like they are trying to find ways to turn us into Sims that can be controlled. They have been doing research on life longevity, controlling your thoughts, your body, and pretty soon your soul. I used to wish they would do research on Lucid Dreams/Astral Travel. But now I am glad they are not, they would just learn to manipulate this as well. :-(
Mi5 already has very skilled projectors working for them, i have met them
:NoY:
Hi,
Try R.R. or Bush. You'll be intercepted. Talk their language and you're in.
Anyone?
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 27, 2012, 19:56:16
I think Puali2 that this type request is most often expressed by skeptics.
Not at all.
At one time when Moen asked Monroe about one of the lesser known Focus Levels
(I think it was the
Flying Fuzzy Zone), Monroe responded that he didn't know what
it was, then Monroe directed himself to Moen and Monroe said:
"Go find out, then come back and tell me, and we will both know."Quote from: Wi11iam on July 27, 2012, 19:56:16Even if anyone were to go and then return and give report of their experience
does not constitute evidence which will prove one theory or another.
I never requested proofs or evidence, I only asked about the experience you got,
which backed up your theory.
Quote from: Pauli2 on July 28, 2012, 07:00:58
Not at all.
At one time when Moen asked Monroe about one of the lesser known Focus Levels
(I think it was the Flying Fuzzy Zone), Monroe responded that he didn't know what
it was, then Monroe directed himself to Moen and Monroe said:
"Go find out, then come back and tell me, and we will both know."
I never requested proofs or evidence, I only asked about the experience you got,
which backed up your theory.
What experience do you think would qualify as backing up a theory? It is a parable. What do you find false or unfitting about it from your own experience and theories formed Pauli2?
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 28, 2012, 18:30:56
What experience do you think would qualify as backing up a theory?
It is a parable. What do you find false or unfitting about it from
your own experience and theories formed Pauli2?
I thought that was obvious, but if you really don't understand it, let me explain.
What qualifies as backing up a theory?
Answer: Observation.
---
Let me take a well known example (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_the_astral_faq/the_playing_card_experiment-t18497.0.html). The original question is, when someone goes OBE, is that
all happening in her/his mind only, being a mere illusion or is the OBE really happening,
meaning that the person goes OBE _somewhere_ in the physical world?
Observation.
Before OBE, the person places a playing card without seeing its value, faced up on a high shelf.
Once the person is OBE she/he takes a look at the playing card an memorizes the card's value,
say Queen of Hearts.
Once back in the physical that person picks the card from the high shelf and looks at its value.
If she/he does that on several occasions she/he eventually may come to some kind of conclusion
whether what she/he observes while OBE is similar to the real physical world.
That's not any proof at all, doesn't qualify as evidence, and probably is hard to repeat scientifically,
but it's an experience which may back up any theory. Also, the observation doesn't need to be visual.
The content of the OP - what have you to add to the discussion in regard to that Pauli2?
Quote from: Lionheart on July 28, 2012, 02:09:49
After watching Through the Wormhole and some other Science Channel programs I believe we are living in a virtual classroom. It seems that Science today in general is finding all different ways to manipulate the "human" experience. Actually it seems like they are trying to find ways to turn us into Sims that can be controlled. They have been doing research on life longevity, controlling your thoughts, your body, and pretty soon your soul. I used to wish they would do research on Lucid Dreams/Astral Travel. But now I am glad they are not, they would just learn to manipulate this as well. :-(
Well Lionheart I have been watching the series you mentioned – in the order they appear here:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/through-the-wormhole/
So far my impressions are 'wow! People actually get paid and recognised and occasionally honored for this kind of stuff!
We are in a kind of classroom for sure but in line with the OP what we are being taught is keeping us within the parameters of prison mentality...although I am seriously beginning to rethink this and the re-evaluation would be 'we are in an insane asylum' but either or, prison it certainly is.
:)
Also in line with the OP we each have the aspect of personal choice, even in choosing what to believe, but I think your comments regarding science are not new – the reigns of educational power have simply shifted from the old way of adoring the priesthood shaman guru monk types and these are now manifest in our scientists. They are the new directors of human consciousness.
Eventually it may work out that Scientists will pay more attention to research of Astral etc...so-called 'paranormal' but the focus is upon escape and rocket propulsion is the first step. Science will not be looking into 'paranormal' any time soon – at least not secular Science.
The world is getting smaller and the problems are getting larger and escaping this prison island of a planet is one priority, and something that has been invested into the imaginations of the populace since the earliest days of print and the evolution of mass media technological advancement.
It is a pipe dream.
The human body simply isn't designed for prolonged space travel.
That is something which deserves a whole topic to itself.
As far as being 'turned into sims that can be controlled' this is something science will no doubt be looking into as a possible answer to some of the world most pressing problems.
In general human beings are easily led through mob mentality. The aspect of self control is something which is evidently not overly thought through by the individual to any point where a sense of personal responsibility and an understanding of being part of something which is bigger than one's own self and that self's projected lifestyle requirements.
Such attitude is necessary for the commercial part of this prison system to control those type individuals toward debt and ownership.
The 'have nots' are a serious problem for those who administer the prison systems because these make up the bulk of the population and are dangerous for their known ability to riot.
Let me ask you this...
If the answer was a definite "YES", that we are living in a virtual reality, would that change how you live?
If the answer was a definite "NO", that we are NOT living in a virtual reality, would that change how you live?
That was an excellent post Wi11iam. My problem with this is the rich will get richer and the poor poorer. They talk on that show quite a bit about using Genes altering to create the perfect human. They aren't going to use the Genes of someone from the hood, they are going to use the Genes of a scholar from Harvard and where will it be used first, of course creating the new super soldiers. They will help us live longer, but then what about overpopulation? They will have the technology to alter your thoughts as well, so if they don't like what you are saying or doing, they can change it. That severely destroys the human experience. Sooner or later they will have weeded out all the meek. The new director's of Human Consciousness will have total control. There is a lot of positives to be found in their research as well, but remember, every yin has a yang!
Quote from: Xanth on July 29, 2012, 17:57:54
Let me ask you this...
If the answer was a definite "YES", that we are living in a virtual reality, would that change how you live?
If the answer was a definite "NO", that we are NOT living in a virtual reality, would that change how you live?
I will assume Xanth that you are referring to the OP in relation to the Virtual Reality.
On a personal level it helps me to identify and clarify my place in the scheme of things.
The change has to do with realisation and realignment and the parable points to the fact that we are living in a prison which we are helping to build.
We may not think so – indeed our education is designed to have us think we are 'free' and it is mind rape – and those minds are barely children when the process begins.
So seeing the Human Potential to be able to build a paradise is a step in the better direction.
From recognising the potential we can work on a hypothetical plan which can be shown in principle to be realistic and able to be employed with minimum fuss or disruption.
At the very least such a plan needs to be activated by all the so-called free world as a first primary step.
You could argue – and others have – that instead of my sitting on my arse complaining about the direction science is taking the Human Race, and using a machine developed by science to do so, that I could be working to alleviate say the hungry nations and poor people.
My response is that we are all in this together and that it is going to take ALL of us to change the present course we are on.
If those who understand the human potential were to unplug and pack there bags and head for the poor regions, we are not going to achieve much at all because the poison will continue pouring forth from the rich nations through their education processes and their need to conquer and control.
We have a small window of opportunity and the internet could be used to spread the word – to gather minds willing to invest time and critical thinking into creating a workable plan and once achieved, this can be broadcast and could conceivably gain momentum and popularity which leadership could not ignore.
That is what I say to those who ask me to shut the hey up. If they have that attitude and work to keep such a thing silent, they are likely administrators of the present system enjoying their particular lifestyles or they are so disgusted with humanity that they only wish the worst and either gave up caring or never got to that point in the first place.
So either way Xanth, the answer to your questions are that step one is to learn to care and see the human potential – the reality is that we each have the choice...and that weather we are in a virtual reality or not really doesn't take that away from us.
The parable is that we don't know – but if it helps the individual to help the whole, then it can't hurt.
Let me ask you this. If you had a choice here to help build a prison or a paradise, which would you choose?
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 29, 2012, 19:32:01
Let me ask you this. If you had a choice here to help build a prison or a paradise, which would you choose?
The obvious answer is obvious. Paradise.
You already help build one or the other with how you view yourself.
However, prison or paradise... you only help to build your own prison or your own paradise. Nobody elses. :)
This seems fitting to add to the conversation here. http://news.discovery.com/tech/human-immortality-2045-120727.html
Quote from: Lionheart on July 29, 2012, 21:01:22
This seems fitting to add to the conversation here. http://news.discovery.com/tech/human-immortality-2045-120727.html
Now *THAT* scares me more than anything else.
I don't want to be here forever. THAT would be pure and absolute torture.
Quote from: Lionheart on July 29, 2012, 18:10:27
That was an excellent post Wi11iam. My problem with this is the rich will get richer and the poor poorer. They talk on that show quite a bit about using Genes altering to create the perfect human. They aren't going to use the Genes of someone from the hood, they are going to use the Genes of a scholar from Harvard and where will it be used first, of course creating the new super soldiers. They will help us live longer, but then what about overpopulation? They will have the technology to alter your thoughts as well, so if they don't like what you are saying or doing, they can change it. That severely destroys the human experience. Sooner or later they will have weeded out all the meek. The new director's of Human Consciousness will have total control. There is a lot of positives to be found in their research as well, but remember, every yin has a yang!
Thank you for your reply Lionheart
It is my understanding that very few people are aware of the entire picture.
There is no doubt whatsoever that through the ages and back into the ancient days of tribal lifestyles up to present day that it is the intelligent people who have led the less intelligent to the point we are now at and the problems we are now facing as a species.
This is natural as the intelligent find it easy to manipulate the imaginations of the easily susceptible – whether through fear of god and gods, the promise of reward, the hope of better days to come etc...
Even when led by brute force – by brutal leadership, the intelligent are directors of how that is best accomplished and are relied upon by the leadership.
Then we entered a new era which has brought with it some semblance of civilisation and care – concern – kindness. It is undeniable that this aspect came through religion – or rather through culture which birthed individuals who found a voice and a following enough to speak of the kinder side of human nature and the need to share together and use intelligence wisely.
Religion is how the intellectuals infiltrated something that disturbed their own agenda and could be shown as a possible threat to 'the order of things'.
Be that as it may, I understand that most human beings are simply interested in living in peace and are contributing to something which has been promising them this thing and rewarding their work with comfortable lifestyles...still at a price of course.
Science is being used by scientists and those investing in that service to find some way of dealing with 'the problems' without losing their stations in life – their right to rule and to own countries. Sounds like 'conspiracy' but one only has to ask how come powerful countries are in debt and to what are they in debt to? Certainly not other great countries...then perhaps to corporations and individuals? It is all a great lie and the trail of destruction can be seen as the path from where this lie travelled – exploration has always been underlined by the agenda of exploitation.
'Discovering' countries which were already peopled – we know the history – even the tampered version of history cannot conceal the poison of the prison makers agenda.
However, we are reaching a critical point for our species. We have discovered the universe is a vast inhospitable unreachable reality and our small pale blue dot of a dust speck is our prison, all inclusive of those that own it and run it.
The Jetson's universe didn't arrive, nor will it, for reality is a harsh thing unless we can find that way in which to work with it.
I think you will find that the things you say 'they' can do, are most likely rumours rather than realities. But rumours do have there uses.
At present 'they' are about to attempt to land a robot on Mars. Why? For exploration? Mapping out a possible escape route for the chosen few?
Space is not the final frontier. It is the un breach able prison wall. The vainglorious weakness and human folly and its path of destruction and usury – that past is never far from this present.
The intellectual know the predictability of the mob mentality and are well enough prepared to deal with it when it surfaces and as democracy has proven, there is a way to tame it without having to give up ownership and control of it but only as long as it is fed and housed and educated, and for the privilege the democratic will pay whatever is asked as long as they can loan $ to pay for it.
I think scientists could easily create a plan on how to build paradise which could be shown as workable, but they have their heads in the stars or in the dirt sifting bones or wherever else the money is and are not required to do anything else.
But as I say – we have this window of opportunity – perhaps it is up to 'the mob mentality' to get their heads together – to realise that trusting in their leaders is a provable fallacy and come to the realisation that it is actually us who always do the hard labour – the dirty work – it is us who build the infrastructures – we could just as easily be building a paradise for ourselves as we are – in the present – building a prison.
Quote from: Xanth on July 29, 2012, 19:54:20
The obvious answer is obvious. Paradise.
You already help build one or the other with how you view yourself.
However, prison or paradise... you only help to build your own prison or your own paradise. Nobody elses. :)
In relation to the Planet and your place on it - it is prison. You may have a little piece of paradise where you reside - but the planet it is situated on - your paradise relies upon that planets well being.
The main problem with your philosophy is in thinking that everyone has the choice to be in prison or paradise and it is through their choices that they have one or the other.
In terms of those who have and those who do not have, those who have, do so because of those who have not. It is thus a flase paradise.
(Your philosophy would be correct if you were actually an island of your own and that no one and no thing could threaten that sovereignty.)
In terms of sharing this world - this reality - you are not in that situation.
We are all in this together. :)
Your interpretation can't see beyond the ego. You can't see beyond the "haves" and the "have nots".
Living isn't about government... It not about wealth or money... Ironically, it's not about anything physical on this planet.
Living is about consciousness, and treating all with Love.
I speak of spiritual growth. It's beyond every concept you have posted about.
The only prison is the one you've created for yourself. It's unfortunate too, because I can sit here and tell people this time and time again, however it's not until they realize this on their own that it'll actually sink in.
I know this because I used to be one of those people.
Quote from: Xanth on July 29, 2012, 23:53:43
Your interpretation can't see beyond the ego. You can't see beyond the "haves" and the "have nots".
Living isn't about government... It not about wealth or money... Ironically, it's not about anything physical on this planet.
Living is about consciousness, and treating all with Love.
I speak of spiritual growth. It's beyond every concept you have posted about.
The only prison is the one you've created for yourself. It's unfortunate too, because I can sit here and tell people this time and time again, however it's not until they realize this on their own that it'll actually sink in.
I know this because I used to be one of those people.
Quote from: OPThe player – in placing an aspect of its consciousness into the human piece to 'power it up' causes something to be created which is called "Ego" which is used by the human to make sense of his existence and the ego exists precisely because the player remains largely a silent observer - the human does not know that he/she is actually a player with an entirely different existence - the human is born and other egos which were formed before it was born explain to it what it is and why it exists and thus the ego is shaped or reproduced by those egos already existing.
If the individual ego follows a path which has it questioning its existence, the things it has been taught by other egos etc...that ego has a better chance of connecting with that silent observer - the game player - and if that occurs then the game changes - not the whole game, but that egos part in the game.
In regard to your understanding of the 'ego' it appears you are coming from a common mis-representation of what it is Xanth and are also using the very same to argue that mis-interpretation.
I cannot assume for certain where you are coming from but in relation to this particular message board which has much to do with all things "Astral" I would likely be correct to assume that your experiences regarding Astral have helped bring you to some awareness to do with such things.
The 'Ego' itself is not a bad thing which needs to be cut out of the human experience. Essentially it is that which is an identity to do with this experience – Life on Earth predominately but also to do with experiencing Astral Realms.
When you return from Astral you are here in this dominant reality and what you learn about your experiences can be transferred into this reality from that one, and indeed from this one to that one. They are intimately interchangeable.
You are strongly suggesting that I am neglecting Love in speaking about the need to create paradise on this planet and equality for all – and the human potential to actualise this concept.
Part of that ability to conceptualise what you refer to as 'spiritual' is to bring that into this realm as the leading motivation – not the airy fairy new age type sellable production but genuine care and loving kindness INTO this realm.
I doubt that anything will prove 'spirituality' any better than actualising its potency INTO this realm.
THAT is 'living in consciousness and treating everybody with Love.'
The 'you ' that can 'sit here and tell people this time and time again' is that ego which has not understood the situation enough to allow that activation to happen to that point necessary that it is the only focus you can genuinely have whilst experiencing this physical reality – to help make paradise a certainty here in this Universe on this planet.
The reason it is not, is because human beings are out of synch with this reality – this universe is truly One thing. It is not 'chaos' or 'forces of destruction competing with forces of creation.' Or 'good verse evil' darkness verses light.
The Earth is the same.
To be in the physical and believe that 'it is not about the physical' is simply lying to Higher self and what is doing the lying?
Ah – ego? Inherited belief system? What are you in the physical for, if it isn't even about the physical?
Ego doesn't need to be destroyed – it needs to be cleansed from the Ancient and reborn in a sense focused upon what it is able to do in its physical experience which reflects the nature of 'spiritual' – who told you that the physical was not even relevant?
I would question that source.
The type of 'spiritual growth' you speak of which denies the relevance of the physical universe is of no value. There are any number of philosophies promoting such a message making profit IN THIS PHYSICAL PLANE – it is a lie.
That the voice of the 'spiritual' would say on one hand 'it is not about the physical' while promoting its wares for sale in the physical – that is not real bona fide 'spirituality' but something the Ancient ego thought up for its own slice of the action.
It has proved itself to be anything but the genuine thing.
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 30, 2012, 00:41:18
The 'Ego' itself is not a bad thing which needs to be cut out of the human experience. Essentially it is that which is an identity to do with this experience – Life on Earth predominately but also to do with experiencing Astral Realms.
This is where I must disagree. The ego is what causes the greed, the greed is what causes the problems. I have been shown many times in the Astral and the physical how the ego is the one thing that has held humanity back. I have also been told to drop it completely and I feel much better for that. When I post here about my experiences here the reason is not to "puff my chest", it is to help people access the Wider Reality. I have gotten into arguments here in the past , not by defending what i said, but defending what others say. One thing that Thomas Campbell is spot on with is this world was made for others, not self. Once we realize this it changes who we are and what our real purpose here is. I am 49 years old, I don't own a home, my own vehicle, basically the only things I can say I truly own are my clothes and a couple of tech devices. But this has never bothered me, material things mean nothing to me, never have. Helping others does, in any way shape or form. But they must be open to that help otherwise I won't offer it. They have to learn their own lessons too.
You still have to work through your ego to participate in this world - it's how we function and relate and build relationships. You can't pretend it doesn't exist, you have a name and an identity that you're tied to, though you can come to a different relationship with your ego and eventually transform it into something higher. But to deny it is impossible. If anything, you have to confront the ugliest parts of yourself to change them.
Quote from: Lionheart on July 30, 2012, 01:47:07
This is where I must disagree. The ego is what causes the greed, the greed is what causes the problems. I have been shown many times in the Astral and the physical how the ego is the one thing that has held humanity back. I have also been told to drop it completely and I feel much better for that. When I post here about my experiences here the reason is not to "puff my chest", it is to help people access the Wider Reality. I have gotten into arguments here in the past , not by defending what I said, but defending what others say. One thing that Thomas Campbell is spot on with is this world was made for others, not self. Once we realize this it changes who we are and what our real purpose here is. I am 49 years old, I don't own a home, my own vehicle, basically the only things I can say I truly own are my clothes and a couple of tech devices. But this has never bothered me, material things mean nothing to me, never have. Helping others does, in any way shape or form. But they must be open to that help otherwise I won't offer it. They have to learn their own lessons too.
Hi Lionheart
Thanks for your comment. I have been thinking about the confusion surrounding the understanding of the 'ego' based on your reply and the general understanding of 'what ego is'.
Hopefully I can clarify where I am coming from. To me, 'ego' is simply a device which serves to identify – and without it an individual has no ability to identify – or put another way, consciousness cannot identity its SELF without this device.
This is from its original meaning – which comes from Latin and simply signifies "I" (and other forms of self identity such as 'me' and 'my' – and this is why I bolded those aspects when quoting your reply.)
This wiki on 'Ego' contrasts the different uses of the word and the meaning of the word, which is essentially where the confusion derives.
The way I am trying to convey my understanding of Ego is related to Freuds understanding of it:
"Originally, Freud used the word ego to mean a sense of self, but later revised it to mean a set of psychic functions such as judgment, tolerance, reality testing, control, planning, defence, synthesis of information, intellectual functioning, and memory. The ego separates out what is real. It helps us to organize our thoughts and make sense of them and the world around us"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego#Ego
I have also referred to that which takes a new born consciousness and invests something into it which is not true – it is a collective false identities which are from an Ancient human source which is similar to this...
"Buddhist traditions view Ego not as a single principle, but rather aggregates of conscious energy which create each individual's consciousness. These aggregates, or "heaps," are referred to in Sanskrit as skandhas."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_(spirituality)
...Although it is not consciousness itself but false personalities disconnected from the Source of consciousness.
In relation to the OP, the investment of the Players consciousness into the pieces in order to 'power up' those pieces still leave those pieces in a relative state of non identity due largely to the 'curtain or veil' created by the process – there is no 'memory' of prior existence which has to do with the Players – as being part of the Players – coming from the Players (the consciousness) and the fact that the default setting for each piece is the state of being 'new born'.
Thus the newborn are 'mind raped' by their predecessors - although it is not thought of as 'rape' - what is occurring is that information is instilled into the developing individual human through the device which allows for identity to take place...which I call 'Ego'.
From this process, individuals are made into personalities they inherit those personalities from their immediate influences and extend that identity (add to the personality) through such sources as family race religion culture politics stars heroes teachers idols and countries. Etc.
For example, most individuals identify very strongly with the countries of origin – the philosophies those countries endorse and might say as a way of identifying themselves such things as:
"My name is John Smith, I am an American and I believe in Christianity."
This is the identity the personality identifies with. Yet it is not truth.
I know what you are saying about 'puffed up' identity. However it is not the device which is at fault but the way the device has been used, which is why I do not vilify the 'Ego' because it is the device.
This is why I am able to make assessments which are not based on what the personality looks like or otherwise presents them selves.
For example – If someone were to tell me that I must abolish the ego because it is evil – and say they were highly respected and revered (such as a guru) and had the looks and charisma and a great following, and they claimed to speak with 'spirits' and go to places in the astral to converse with wise personalities and bring back the message to impart on the followers, and part of the message informed me that the physical plane is of no relevance etc...and that same personality enjoyed the riches of life-style afforded to them by their followers, and has sexual relations with the pick of their followers and enjoyed all the best things, even thought the bulk of their followers remained poor and in need, I would know this personality to be a liar, and their followers to be deceived.
If their was a human being incapable of expressing personality, I would say that their ego device was not functioning, therefore the personality – any personality - cannot express through the form.
So yes, we are certainly not the form. We are the consciousness within the form and our 'disadvantage' is that we enter this particular form like empty vessels ready to be filled with whatever information by external personalities having access to do so, and we become or identify with those personalities and if we do not break that cycle (awaken) then we will perpetuate it.
I hope that this helps to clarify what I am saying regarding the 'ego'. It is not a 'personality' but a device used by an inherited characteristic made up of many 'personalities' which are forced upon the baby/developing child as a means of controlling that individual.
In terms of the OP, this is the very thing which is building a prison for the consciousness experiencing this Physical Universe, principally regarding Life on Earth.
This is also why it is important to see that while we are here, it is either to build the prison (be part of the problem) or build the paradise (be part of the solution) and this is not to do with neglecting or otherwise finding a belief system which resolves us of that responsibility.
Also this is why I say that the astral is part of the prison system because it is not where we actually come from – it is not where consciousness is sourced. It is a product of Collective and individual human imaginations which have are and will experience the physical universe.
Everything ever imagined through the human experience of Life on Earth can be found within the Astral Realm.
Quote from: Stookie_ on July 30, 2012, 14:48:20
You still have to work through your ego to participate in this world - it's how we function and relate and build relationships. You can't pretend it doesn't exist, you have a name and an identity that you're tied to, though you can come to a different relationship with your ego and eventually transform it into something higher. But to deny it is impossible. If anything, you have to confront the ugliest parts of yourself to change them.
Yes Stookie this is more to the point – but what you are 'confronting' if indeed you have to do so, is NOT 'parts of yourself' but are those things mind-raped into your baby/child framework which you then presume to be 'yourself'.
They are hand me down personalities they are false and disconnected to the Source of All Consciousness – they are illusions presumed to be real.
Costumes and masks.
I know it sounds a little harsh to use the expression 'mind raped' but I use it purposefully to emphasis the very thing which needs to be disowned and dissolved. Rape, as an action is repulsive to most individuals desiring to be free from the perversity of merely acting out an animal existence and also desire to 'bring in the genuine spiritual' through their Mammal form...and assist in transforming a prison into a paradise. :)
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 30, 2012, 18:04:18
I know what you are saying about 'puffed up' identity. However it is not the device which is at fault but the way the device has been used, which is why I do not vilify the 'Ego' because it is the device.
Everything ever imagined through the human experience of Life on Earth can be found within the Astral Realm.
Hello Wi11iam, another excellent fully detailed explanation. Kudos for that! :-)
I agree that it's not the devices fault, that its the way the device is used where the problem lies. That's just like all the new technology coming out right now is good, it's what it's being used for where the problem lies. There are many ways it can be used to help, but unfortunately too many ways it can hurt.
You will find many different scenarios in the Astral that show you that they are real. Things that you could never have imagined, things that defy word descriptions alone. This is what makes it so real, when you see new colors or new shapes, images that you never could have imagined existed before. Beings that even transcend even your wildest nightmares, you know you are witness to something extraordinary. :-)
Quote from: Lionheart on July 30, 2012, 18:20:58
Hello Wi11iam, another excellent fully detailed explanation. Kudos for that! :-)
I agree that it's not the devices fault, that its the way the device is used where the problem lies. That's just like all the new technology coming out right now is good, it's what it's being used for where the problem lies. There are many ways it can be used to help, but unfortunately too many ways it can hurt.
You will find many different scenarios in the Astral that show you that they are real. Things that you could never have imagined, things that defy word descriptions alone. This is what makes it so real, when you see new colors or new shapes, images that you never could have imagined existed before. Beings that even transcend even your wildest nightmares, you know you are witness to something extraordinary. :-)
Dear Lionheart.
I have no doubt that these things you speak of are real. But they are not reality.
It may be that you and I could never have imagined such things ourselves (for we are but individuals) but I would say that human beings have imagined these things into existence over the period of time Humans have existed on this planet.
I understand the attraction but fail to see how it impacts upon this here and now which you can't deny is your dominant reality until death you do part and how certain can you be that the things you now experience will continue the way they have, and that things won't change once you no longer have a physical body to occupy?
What exactly is the attraction? What exactly is the point to things that defy word descriptions alone. Or seeing new colors or new shapes, images that you never could have imagined existed before. Beings that even transcend even your wildest nightmares, you know you are witness to something extraordinary but for what reason or point this side of the black stump?
Why is it that the human heart can gravitate to these experiences but cannot give a toss for THIS experience?
I guess what I am saying is that I couldn't care less about 'Astral' or its inhabitants or for those who sing its praises when I witness no concern for the suffering or genuine attempt to bring equality and build paradise here on this planet and equality for every one coming from that direction.
This is not to say that I don't care for you or others as individuals – I just can't connect the dots as far as the attitudes go – it reminds me of those on serious drugs who are only concerned for their next fix and have no concerns for the world they live in or the stress their actions cause to others – they just want to get out of it and forget the world for a while.
Or those who use others to set up their life styles with no care for those who are being used for that purpose.
Now perhaps this is the same attitude as the Players, in which case I would say by pass the Players and find the genuine article.
This game is a mess and I include that wonderland you speak highly of. I am sorry but there is more to this than meets the eye.
It is my opinion that the 'area' of the Astral realm Frank Kepple spoke about as "F4" is the gateway out of the whole game and into the Reality of the Players domain from where we essentially come from.
I think that if human beings fail, then so do the Players. What do we 'fail' in? We simply fail in Wisdom and Kindness and in Understanding our collective connection and we fail by defiling Consciousness with selfish heartless intention.
We fail to grow up. We fail to see the true thing we are because of the false thing we have become.
Everything you experience is a reality.
But as I said, it's just another lesson which each of us has to come to at our own time.
Quote from: Xanth on July 31, 2012, 07:41:01
Everything you experience is a reality.
But as I said, it's just another lesson which each of us has to come to at our own time.
Yes - it is consciousness which makes everything real. Not intelligence or belief systems - these distort what is is that consciousness might observe.
Quote from: OPThe game (paradise or prison) had an unexpected twist...an unlikely possibility.
A possibility which the 'prison' team are allowed to undermine using whatever tricks they are able to come up with.
The prison team whose humans try and connect with them will create the necessary illusions in order that those humans work for the process of prison building. If those humans see through the illusion and change their alliance then the player shifts its support to the paradise team The human pieces can individually connect with their game players through the common thread of consciousness and in doing so allow the player to realize that there was more to the game than simply trying to get humans to build a paradise or a prison...and through this realization another level opens up to their awareness...*
...it's just another lesson which each of us has to come to at our own time
Wi11iam, i would like to comment on your OP (which i largely agree with) and your subsequent comments, but i'm feeling lousy today. perhaps i will feel better tomorrow. until then maybe you can outline the protocol you used in deriving your particular theory -the books you have read, the experiences you have had, etc.
Quote from: pondini on July 31, 2012, 15:50:58
Wi11iam, i would like to comment on your OP (which i largely agree with) and your subsequent comments, but i'm feeling lousy today. perhaps i will feel better tomorrow. until then maybe you can outline the protocol you used in deriving your particular theory -the books you have read, the experiences you have had, etc.
Pondini.
I am 49years old. Some of my experiences I have shared in this forum.
I have read few books on any particular subject.
My main devices of learning have been serendipity/synchronicity in relation to my personal experience (subjective) and the external reality (objective) and have seen these aligned.
I have also worked with the Ouija principle and through this communications tool have also learned a great deal about the larger reality.
I have experienced lucid dreaming. OOBE. I have never consciously experienced the Astral Realm to the degree where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical universe.
I look forward to your replies once you are feeling better.
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 31, 2012, 17:28:51
I have never consciously experienced the Astral Realm to the degree where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical universe.
You certainly don't have to believe me... but I'm 100% certain that you have. :)
Quote from: Xanth on July 31, 2012, 19:54:34
You certainly don't have to believe me... but I'm 100% certain that you have. :)
Of course. As I said Xanth - I have never
consciously experienced the Astral Realm to the degree where the
memory of it remains when returning to the physical universe.
I am also 100% certain that I have and do. But my focus is on this physical reality and having no retained memories of Astral experience seems to help that focus.
If anyone can convince me that I am wasting my time focusing on the physical reality or having a heart for its potential, I am - as always - open minded. :-)
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 31, 2012, 20:21:23
If anyone can convince me that I am wasting my time focusing on the physical reality or having a heart for its potential, I am - as always - open minded. :-)
I try focusing on the physical reality most of the time too. It has helped me stay grounded and has enabled me to experience real time zone projections exclusively. I do not allow myself to daydream, and I try hard to avoid dreaming at night. This has helped me achieve obe's that are physical in nature.
William, are you talking about experiencing the "astral" or the "physical" while non-physical? I'll be honest, I'm a tad confused by what you're saying, because to me, it makes little sense.
You've already said that you have consciously experienced the "astral" to the degree of where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical. You just said you've had lucid dreams. That's what they are. Conscious experiences in the "astral", and you've obviously retained the memories, cause you remember experiencing them.
In my opinion, if you're talking about what Todd mentioned (the RTZ), then yeah, I feel it's a huge waste of time. But meh... that's just *MY* opinion. You might have to spend some time doing it before you come to a conclusion of your own.
I'll never understand why people are so willing to waste the precious non-physical time they have here in this physical reality which they spend the other 2/3rds of their life. hehe
The very idea, too, that what you're experiencing might not even be this physical reality turns me away from the idea even more. You're putting a lot of faith in the existence of this supposed "RTZ".
And remember, just because a projection looks like Earth... doesn't mean it IS the Earth.
Quote from: todd421757 on July 31, 2012, 20:50:33
I try focusing on the physical reality most of the time too. It has helped me stay grounded and has enabled me to experience real time zone projections exclusively. I do not allow myself to daydream, and I try hard to avoid dreaming at night. This has helped me achieve obe's that are physical in nature.
Now this certainly I am interested in hearing more about Todd, as my own OBEs are of the same nature - what few I have experienced.
Truthfully though, I did not know what to 'do' with the 'ability' - what use it could be to me in relation to the Physical reality.
I do not ever purposefully try to avoid dreaming, lucid dreaming or even Astral projection and exploration but nor do I actively try to do these things either. Only one of the few times this has happened with me, was it instigated through my willfully wanting to do it.
I would be most interested in hearing more from you on the OBEs which are physical in nature.
:)
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 31, 2012, 21:54:01
Now this certainly I am interested in hearing more about Todd, as my own OBEs are of the same nature - what few I have experienced.
I would be most interested in hearing more from you on the OBEs which are physical in nature.
:)
I always find myself in my bedroom immediately after projecting, except in the occasional lucid dream. All my techniques I use to experience etheric projection have been described in my previous posts. I like to switch up techniques from practice session to practice session to keep my mind fresh to avoid dreamlike qualities in an OBE. If I do the exact same technique every time, I start to lose focus while practicing.
I have never found myself in an another environment that isn't the RTZ, except when I occasionally have a lucid dream. I become alert in a lucid dream by forcing myself to separate (rollout, liftup, etc.) while in the lucid dream, then I wake up in the RTZ. The RTZ is always recognizable as my bedroom or house. I have never went straight from exiting my physical body to outside my house. I have always had to travel from bed to bedroom doorway, to dining room, to living room, to outside, to down the street, and return in a reverse fashion.
Etheric projections are very different than other types of projections. I usually am floating along with a dense energy feeling. I sometimes feel like I am a drunk. I have to body press myself against a door or wall to travel through it. Sight is difficult to achieve in an etheric projection. At least half the time, I have to sense energy to determine where I am at.
Every etheric projection I have had has always lead to falling into a dream or lucid dream if I try to prolong the experience by traveling too far. Etheric projections for me don't last too long. The average is 1 to 5 minutes. I try to get back to my body as soon as possible to remember the experience better and to avoid falling into a lucid dream. The farthest I have traveled in an etheric projection is 12 miles.
Some etheric projections I gain energy from and feel refreshed for the rest of the day, and some I feel a lost of energy. I have never had an etheric projection without vibrations.
I usually separate when I feel a faint tug that usually occurs immediately when the vibrations come. Sometimes it comes slightly later. The tug is difficult to find. I have separated before at the end of the vibrations, but that is a rarer occurrence. I have never separated in the exact middle of the vibrations experience.
I have never met a spirit in the RTZ. I have seen other people and animals that I have assumed were living. I have never been able to speak to anyone while in an etheric projection.
I have had both type of experiences in the RTZ where I would have a body and sometimes I would be like a point of consciousness.
I cannot hear anything while in an etheric projection. That is one of my main clues to whether I am in or out of body.
SInce doing etheric projections, I have been able to feel energy during some movements and interactions while on the physical plane.
Distance is the key to etheric projections. The projections are almost always a very short distance. Every movement feels like energy is being used up. When the energy is entirely used up, you feel the tug of the cord and are sent back to the physical body in a reverse fashion. Abrupt returns end in a jolt to my physical body that I can feel. Smooth returns do not have this jolt.
Travel is made easier in an etheric projection if you pull the your destination towards you versus traveling towards it. Also, I have to keep moving to keep the etheric projection alive. Once I slow down, I feel like my etheric body is starting to lose it's energy fuel and I am back into my physical body in no time.
Etheric projection seems to take a lot of will power and desire to be successful at it. Being too passive seems to affect my successes.
I have been able to move small objects several times in an etheric projection and later verified it. Like I mentioned earlier, sometimes you are sensing where the object is and moving it with your etheric self versus seeing it.
I have a much higher success in achieving etheric projection during the first and second day of a full moon.
There are many things that seem to somewhat lower my successes of an etheric projection: peanuts and other nuts, heavy meats, too hot showers or too much showering, not keeping up shaving your face, mind chatter, too sleepy, any and all medications, listening to too much television or music, and all forms of dreaming.
There is sometimes a momentary blackout upon separation and return. The times I don't get the blackout are the best and clearest etheric projections. Sometimes I feel myself re-enter back into my physical body and sometimes I don't. I always feel the exit from the physical body. I have never had a spontaneous etheric projection. It has always happened while consciously practicing a technique.
The big question is when we die, do we automatically find ourselves in the reality we usually project into while we are alive.
Upon death,
For example, will I find myself in the real time zone. And some people will find themselves in a lucid dream. And the rest will find themselves in a regular dream. This is critical information to discuss, since the afterlife state may be dependent upon our last waking physical thoughts.
Quote from: Xanth on July 31, 2012, 21:25:27
William, are you talking about experiencing the "astral" or the "physical" while non-physical? I'll be honest, I'm a tad confused by what you're saying, because to me, it makes little sense.
You've already said that you have consciously experienced the "astral" to the degree of where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical. You just said you've had lucid dreams. That's what they are. Conscious experiences in the "astral", and you've obviously retained the memories, cause you remember experiencing them.
In my opinion, if you're talking about what Todd mentioned (the RTZ), then yeah, I feel it's a huge waste of time. But meh... that's just *MY* opinion. You might have to spend some time doing it before you come to a conclusion of your own.
I'll never understand why people are so willing to waste the precious non-physical time they have here in this physical reality which they spend the other 2/3rds of their life. hehe
The very idea, too, that what you're experiencing might not even be this physical reality turns me away from the idea even more. You're putting a lot of faith in the existence of this supposed "RTZ".
And remember, just because a projection looks like Earth... doesn't mean it IS the Earth.
Well okay Xanth – in that case yes I have experienced the Astral if indeed as you say, this is the place of lucid dreaming.
From what I have read of Franks Resource, it seems a lot more than just lucid dreaming – the lucid dreaming I have experienced is something which is real but still somewhat subject to my being not so in control like dreams often are.
Recently I also experienced a lucid dream where I was in 'New York' and at the end of the experience I remember getting the head buzz and began floating just prior to leaving that state and returning to this world and waking.
This I found interesting - in that this has happened a few times for me recently – getting the buzz and the floatation and then immediately waking from that to this world.
In regard to the thing you call RTZ without a doubt THAT is the most powerful aspect of OOBE I have ever had – far more powerful and clear and precise than any lucid dream I have had.
But getting back to Frank's Resource, his stories give me the impression that he is experiencing the same powerful clear and precise state of being while exploring and recording his observations of Astral Realm.
As we all know, it is never easy to express these things in words.
:)
Back to this RTZ – I remember just KNOWING that what I was experiencing was more real than the real thing and having thought about it often in the years gone by since that experience I see it as something which somehow is the real thing and this earth experience under 'normal circumstances' as being like a faint echo or shadow of that. I did not find it boring whatsoever.
As far as 'putting a lot of faith' into the 'supposed RTZ' I am not sure I follow you. I am not putting faith in anything – In relation to our shared dominant reality of Earth – experience of life on Earth, I am acknowledging the Potential – the Human Potential to turn prison into paradise.
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 31, 2012, 22:16:13
In regard to the thing you call RTZ without a doubt THAT is the most powerful aspect of OOBE I have ever had – far more powerful and clear and precise than any lucid dream I have had.
This is exactly the same thing I have been trying to tell people here too since I first started posting.
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 31, 2012, 00:37:51
Why is it that the human heart can gravitate to these experiences but cannot give a toss for THIS experience?
I guess what I am saying is that I couldn't care less about 'Astral' or its inhabitants or for those who sing its praises when I witness no concern for the suffering or genuine attempt to bring equality and build paradise here on this planet and equality for every one coming from that direction.
How do you know the Human heart doesn't gravitate towards this experience? In fact how do you know what's in other people's hearts period? On this forum we have an section for sending Healing Energy to other people in need. Myself personally I do a meditation to send good energy to other people, countries in need all the time. The Global Heart Initiative comes to mind here. Xanth did a thread here where we could do a mass meditation to reverse World problems and suffering. Everyone cares about the suffering of the world in their own way. It's just they realize in this physical body we have that we can't be everywhere and help everyone at the same time. This physical reality has limitations, the Astral doesn't. But, you will find a number of our members here volunteer their time for charities and others in need.
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 31, 2012, 22:16:13
Well okay Xanth – in that case yes I have experienced the Astral if indeed as you say, this is the place of lucid dreaming.
From what I have read of Franks Resource, it seems a lot more than just lucid dreaming – the lucid dreaming I have experienced is something which is real but still somewhat subject to my being not so in control like dreams often are.
You say "it seems a lot more than JUST lucid dreaming". Well, you're right.
In fact, Dreams, lucid dreams, astral projections, OBEs, any label you can think of regarding this soul travel thing... I think that *THOSE* are more than what people label them to be. Actually, I don't think they are...
I *KNOW* they are. It's one of those personal truths of mine. One of the many inevitable, inescapable conclusions I've come to lately. I'm actually REALLY SURPRISED that more people haven't come to these same conclusions, because as I said, to me, they're inescapably obvious.
QuoteIn regard to the thing you call RTZ without a doubt THAT is the most powerful aspect of OOBE I have ever had – far more powerful and clear and precise than any lucid dream I have had.
And I believe I know why that is... look for my posts I've made about "levels of conscious awareness". I've explained this concept so many times, my fingers hurt. ROFL :)
I'll just provide my links for you to read at your leisure. http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/labeling-experiences-of-the-non-physical/
QuoteBut getting back to Frank’s Resource, his stories give me the impression that he is experiencing the same powerful clear and precise state of being while exploring and recording his observations of Astral Realm.
As we all know, it is never easy to express these things in words.
So true... I get really frustrated sometimes when I'm unable to put into words exactly what it is I want to say or describe. Because all of this stuff is so very clear to me... I won't say it's 100% clear, but it's as clear as it could be without me objectively knowing (that is, beyond personal truth).
QuoteBack to this RTZ – I remember just KNOWING that what I was experiencing was more real than the real thing and having thought about it often in the years gone by since that experience I see it as something which somehow is the real thing and this earth experience under ‘normal circumstances’ as being like a faint echo or shadow of that. I did not find it boring whatsoever.
As far as ‘putting a lot of faith’ into the ‘supposed RTZ’ I am not sure I follow you. I am not putting faith in anything – In relation to our shared dominant reality of Earth – experience of life on Earth, I am acknowledging the Potential – the Human Potential to turn prison into paradise.
http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/08/my-observations-of-the-non-physical/
http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/06/02/possible-cause-for-reality-fluctuations-in-our-projections/
And I'll just point out that "more real" makes no logical sense. Nothing can be "more real" than real. Which means that perception, interpretation and a bit of ego are playing games here. :) I do understand what you're trying to say... more real, as in more vivid and clear than this physical reality experience you have. The point I make above in the first link explains why that is too.
I also have no doubt that the conclusions I've come to through my direct experiences are ones that everyone will eventually come to.
Quote from: Lionheart on July 31, 2012, 22:39:02
How do you know the Human heart doesn't gravitate towards this experience? In fact how do you know what's in other people's hearts period? On this forum we have an section for sending Healing Energy to other people in need. Myself personally I do a meditation to send good energy to other people, countries in need all the time. The Global Heart Initiative comes to mind here. Xanth did a thread here where we could do a mass meditation to reverse World problems and suffering. Everyone cares about the suffering of the world in their own way. It's just they realize in this physical body we have that we can't be everywhere and help everyone at the same time. This physical reality has limitations, the Astral doesn't. But, you will find a number of our members here volunteer their time for charities and others in need.
Well that is reassuring Lionheart :) especially in regard to the OP.
Also one and all my apologies - I was in a bit of a mood yesterday and let my frustrations leak out a bit. Sorry.
Quote from: xanthNothing can be "more real" than real. Which means that perception, interpretation and a bit of ego are playing games here.
No. If anything it was quiet the humbling realization. And certainly things can be more real than real. Perception is the thing coupled with understanding.
The experience was more real than the normal reality but the environment was the same and that is why I said that in thinking about it over the years I see this earth/universe (and in relation to the OP - a VR) as an echo or shadow of that real thing. I remember thinking at the time of the actual experience 'wow - this is even more real' and that is precisely the feeling/realization I had entered into a previously unknown thing and I knew - I didn't just 'know'.
I think you might need to adjust the 'ego' yourself when it comes to people sharing their personal experiences Xanth. Indeed we all need to. We obviously have differing ones but since these are subjective then who can say or has the right to say that the other is incorrect in their interpretation of what happened to them personally especially if they are not asking but simply sharing?
QuoteI also have no doubt that the conclusions I've come to through my direct experiences are ones that everyone will eventually come to.
While that piques the curiosity - and yes I will be looking into those links - you do realize yes, how such a statement shows that you consider yourself not only an authority on 'your conclusions being THE conclusions' but that others are simply ignorant? Kind of 'guru' of you I think, but whatever. :D
Okay I read the Word Press links Xanth - we have a similar understanding although my experience of RTZ and when you say
QuoteThis "knowledge" of your environment gets a little more iffy the further away from your room you get until you get so far away where you can't rely upon your memory of the area to get a firm "build" of it to experience.
It is definitely not the same as what I experienced at all so although it is obviously similar to RTZ, from the descriptiveness, (and other descriptions I have been reading since Todd brought it up) what I had cannot be relegated to being RTZ because my experience was quite different.
Which is interesting. Are We Living Within A Virtual Reality? 8-)
Quote from: Wi11iam on August 01, 2012, 00:02:31
what I had cannot be relegated to being RTZ because my experience was quite different.
Can you point out how it was different. I am very curious. Thanks.
I had 3 projections where I felt like I was in the physical plane and not in the RTZ. I am wondering if this is what you experienced.
Quote from: todd421757 on August 01, 2012, 00:19:34
Can you point out how it was different. I am very curious. Thanks.
I had 3 projections where I felt like I was in the physical plane and not in the RTZ. I am wondering if this is what you experienced.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_members_introductions/my_journey-t33884.15.html
Reply #16
If you wish to discuss this further Todd, It would be more appropriate I think, to do so in that thread linked. Also it is 'my' thread in the intro section so you might be interested in the other stories I share there.
Have fun reading.
Cheers
W
Tom Campbell:Why Virtual Reality is a Better Model Than String Theory or Holographic Theory (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTNNC_SOO0Y&feature=player_embedded#!)
I enjoyed this vid.
Nearer the end While still listening I used my Com Method and received this message.
Quote from: Com MethodAstral Pulse
Source Codes Feel Re-channel.
How can it be any other way?
Cymatics Hear Me Now You Do
Light Body Even As An Elemental Principle
Given Self Awareness Transforming The Anger Energy
Glad You Asked
FSH
Quote from: WingMakers Materials"I could awaken each of you in this very moment to our unity, but there is a larger design – a more comprehensive vision – that places you in the boundaries of time and the spatial dimensions of separateness. This design requires a progression into my wholeness that reacquaints you with our unity through the experience of separation. Your awakening, while slow and sometimes painful, is assured, and this you must trust above all else."
Quote from: Com MethodSource Codes
Recording Music
Lyricus designs, transposes, and installs galactic Tributary Zones to a planetary system
Unknown/Hidden/Occult
Time For Soul To Drive
Source Reality
Invisible Bridge
The Solution?
Jung-Animus
Extreme
Face To Face
Hugs and Kisses
That Is An Order
Hint
Soul Groups
Meditate/Think
Near
As You Think
The Anunnaki
Immediate Plan of Action
Central to The Message
The WingMakers
Extend Beyond The Borders of Institution
Haha Joke We Win
Tracks In The Snow
Use Mind
Creative Conscious Intelligence
Differences
Taxonomic
Attached
Large Hadron Collider
Speculation
Keep an Eye On
You are.
Quote from: Wi11iam on August 01, 2012, 05:40:12
Nearer the end While still listening I used my Com Method and received this message.
Com Method? :?
Quote from: Lionheart on August 01, 2012, 05:54:37
Com Method? :?
Method of communication I use on occasion. I could explain in more detail but essentially I simply use a list in a word processor (actually normally two separate lists for added 'random' effect but I only used one in for the above message posted) and using page up and down keys quickly scroll through the....(checking number of pages...) 35 pages stopping at random and where the cursor stops I copy and paste the line into a separate doc which becomes the message through repeating this process.
The system (Com Method) I use was developed from my interaction and observation of Ouija Principle over many years.
This is one of the reasons I have come to understand that we are living within a Virtual Reality...because this systems works and no matter how 'random' you try to get, it still gives coherent and relevant information. (to the subjective observer)
Tom Campbell talks about all those types of processes of finding information, he calls these "tools". Whether it is Tarot, Ouija Board, Dowsing, Scrying, Remote Viewing etc., they are all "tools" for accessing the information in the Larger Reality. But, he says these tools do work and there is nothing wrong using them, as long as you realize they are just that.
Your Com Method kind of sounds like the famous WebBot, which is another program that uses a type of computer algorithm.
Quote from: Wi11iam on July 31, 2012, 23:40:12
I think you might need to adjust the 'ego' yourself when it comes to people sharing their personal experiences Xanth. Indeed we all need to. We obviously have differing ones but since these are subjective then who can say or has the right to say that the other is incorrect in their interpretation of what happened to them personally especially if they are not asking but simply sharing?
You misinterpret... I don't speak from a position of superiority... I speak from a position of confidence in my conclusions.
I can understand the confusion though.
I should apologize though... as from time to time, I can get rather overzealous in my responses, and I can sound "pushy" (I guess the term is LoL). Or so I've been told. ;)
QuoteWhile that piques the curiosity - and yes I will be looking into those links - you do realize yes, how such a statement shows that you consider yourself not only an authority on 'your conclusions being THE conclusions' but that others are simply ignorant? Kind of 'guru' of you I think, but whatever. :D
The truth is I *AM* the authority on *MY* conclusions being the conclusions. ;)
Call me what you want... you really won't hurt my feelings.
However, I also don't recognize others as being "simply ignorant". THAT, in itself would be ignorant.
Oh, I fully understand exactly how I sound in my post. I struggled for a short while in writing that post... and eventually I came to the conclusion that I have a personal truth to share and there really isn't any other way in which to share it but than to be fully confident in my truths. :)
I'm *fairly certain* my conclusions are how it is. I guess I can't say 100%, more like 99.9%... I've gotta leave that bit of room for any new evidence that comes around which could change things.
I also realize that everyone needs to come to these conclusions at their own time... of which, when that time comes, I'm confident that my theories/ideas/concepts will be found to be true. By some chance they're not and they're proven wrong, I'm also 100% okay with that too. In the end, regardless of who is right and wrong... a greater understanding will have been achieved. *THAT* is what I'm most interested in.
Quote from: Wi11iam on August 01, 2012, 00:02:31
Which is interesting. Are We Living Within A Virtual Reality? 8-)
Most likely. :)
Your con method sounds very intriguing as well.
As Lionheart points out, you've found a very useful tool for accessing the larger reality for yourself. :)
Has Xanth had the same epiphany as I have!! Makes you feisty don't it.
William... I have posted in a forum recently... and all your posts on here and there are almost identical. Well the ones you interacted with me... on a thread called 'are we living in a virtual reality' Whaaaas goin on? lol
Yes we are most probably almost maybe definitely are... maybe... probably... definitely.
But it's the only virtual reality of its type that you are currently fixed in... and its the only one with consequences with which to help you learn.
Cut your arm off in the nonphysical it will still be there... cut your virtual reality arm off in this virtual reality then you will be getting your wife to open your virtual reality ketchup bottles for you for the rest of your virtual life.
You maybe don't have a wife... it doesn't matter... I needed to get that 'Armageddon' quote out because it's a good line and I've never had cause to use it before.
Quote from: Bedeekin on August 01, 2012, 21:40:22
Has Xanth had the same epiphany as I have!! Makes you feisty don't it.
It's beginning to frustrate me. :)
I think thats part of the reason I've been off forums for a year or so.
Quote from: Bedeekin on August 01, 2012, 21:40:22
William... I have posted in a forum recently... and all your posts on here and there are almost identical. Well the ones you interacted with me... on a thread called 'are we living in a virtual reality' Whaaaas goin on? lol
My posts in other forums are very similar but certainly not identical - apart from the OP - I haven't had to cut and paste yet.
I am interrelating in other forums regarding this topic Bedeekin is 'what's going on'.
I am interested in observing how others with very different belief systems respond to this concept - especially the concept of building paradise on this planet.
If you look at the different forum same topic and read through the posts you should notice how the subject varies depending on what input happens. It all helps. :)
It's been a very solid thread. I must admit.
The topic might have waxed and waned a bit... but I think, on the whole, things are going good. :)
Wi11iam, I have a feeling you are going to like tonight's episode of "Through the Wormhole", the topic was on time and eternity. Many different interesting viewpoints were talked about including a "virtual reality" theory. Tonight's episode was called "Will Eternity End?"
It was my lame attempt at an obscure virtual reality joke. never mind. I haven't been interacting online for a while.
But this paradise on the planet. Explain what you mean... or do you literally mean a really pretty, peaceful and bountiful place with waterfalls and humming birds etc?
Paradise is subjective of course. Is it the subjectivity you are interested in?
Quote from: Lionheart on August 02, 2012, 00:55:31
Wi11iam, I have a feeling you are going to like tonight's episode of "Through the Wormhole", the topic was on time and eternity. Many different interesting viewpoints were talked about including a "virtual reality" theory. Tonight's episode was called "Will Eternity End?"
Hey Lionheart Xanth and Bedeekin
Thanks for that heads up on "Will Eternity End" Lionheart. Is there a link yet to the full episode?
Bedeekin - your question could be answered by your own thought processes. You could ask me 'what do I mean by prison?' but I think generally speaking it is clear enough that I am saying we can - as a specie - use our creative prowess to create something which is not a prison or operated along the same principles as a prison - something I have called 'paradise' - perhaps because it also starts with a "P" and gives a stark contrast to 'prison'.
Quote from: Wi11iam on August 02, 2012, 17:08:43
Thanks for that heads up on "Will Eternity End" Lionheart. Is there a link yet to the full episode?
I don't know about that. When the History Channel created a new channel known as H2 we bought into it. We really enjoyed all the documentaries, etc. on the History Channel, then they took the good stuff off and put it on H2, pressuring people to buy the new channel. Their strategy paid off on me, lol. We then noticed we had to upgrade our Dish package to 135 more channels if we wished to get H2. So, we did and we found we had Nat Geo and the Science Channel , there's a lot of other channels too, but we don't watch most of those. Anyways, before I had the Science Channel I would just wait for a week or so after the program, then go on HULU.com and watch it for free. So, you could do that, but it usually takes about week before they start showing it, I'm sure that has something to do with licensing.
Quote from: Lionheart on August 02, 2012, 17:23:04
I don't know about that. When the History Channel created a new channel known as H2 we bought into it. We really enjoyed all the documentaries, etc. on the History Channel, then they took the good stuff off and put it on H2, pressuring people to buy the new channel. Their strategy paid off on me, lol. We then noticed we had to upgrade our Dish package to 135 more channels if we wished to get H2. So, we did and we found we had Nat Geo and the Science Channel , there's a lot of other channels too, but we don't watch most of those. Anyways, before I had the Science Channel I would just wait for a week or so after the program, then go on HULU.com and watch it for free. So, you could do that, but it usually takes about week before they start showing it, I'm sure that has something to do with licensing.
Ah yes - one of those prison system strategies. :D No probs - how did you find the program Lionheart?
Quote from: Wi11iam on August 02, 2012, 20:21:40
Ah yes - one of those prison system strategies. :D No probs - how did you find the program Lionheart?
Well I can usually hang with the program mentally speaking for about 20 minutes, lol. This is because it gets really deep into physics, a subject I am not adept with. I still watch the whole program every time, but only fully understand about half of it. Last night I could only hang with the first 10 minutes, after that it got pretty deep. :?
I watch all those Science based programs on that Channel. Even if I don't understand them 100%, they still broaden my horizons. But, I have always taken more of a Magickal approach to my life. Something that Science doesn't seem to want to delve into and that's OK with me, because it's the mystery that keeps the excitement coming! :-)