Body asleep

[KokomoSky]

How can you tell when your body is asleep but your mind is not? I think I just need someone to help me clear up this question.

[Ceraphim]

Well you can't feel your body pretty. I cant make it sound more simple.

[kiwibonga]

I can feel my physical body when I'm mind awake/body asleep... Also when I'm wide awake, I can lose all sensation of my body...

So I don't think it's a good indicator...

If you are conscious during that state, you will normally either be dreaming, or seeing/hearing all kinds of hallucinations. Anything you think about will be shown to you, and you can even see through your eyelids if you dig deeper...

Put effort into knowing how to get there, and when you do get there, you will know.

[-E-]

kiwibonga pretty much hit the nail on the head for me, when im in hypnogogic state, i know the opportunity to AP is just around the corner, altho i havent been successful yet

[IndigoRains]

Mind awake/body asleep.  Sounds simple.  With all respect I really don't think the explanations above go deep enough.  You can loose sensation in your body within a few minutes of relaxing and you can see images pop in and out of your head at anytime...I don't think that's really the same.

Firstly can I say that I have had many OBEs, both through waking dreams and conscious effort.  Mind awake/body asleep is, I believe, the most important aspect of inducing OBEs.  It takes time and patience to master but pays dividends.

What is it?  Okay, imagine falling asleep, you do every night so it isn't that difficult but keeping your mind awake is like like having a trap door under your feet - just as you approach sleep, if you have a conscious thought at this stage, the trap door shuts under your feet and you are once again awake and back to square one.  The trick, if there is one, is to do it gently and slowly - and practice!  You will have conscious thoughts pop into your head like - 'ooo, I'm there!' the wallop - back you go!

How I do it.  I sleep on my side and in the dark...so I try to duplicate the conditions for sleep.  I lay on my side in my normal sleeping position and somehow cover my eyes to make it dark (I normally just pull the covers over them).  I make sure I'm warm and comfy.  Now I relax my body - deep breaths - with every exhale I relax more - I do this for about 5 mins.  One thing I avoid doing is clearing my mind.  You know when ever you really try to sleep - you can't - so I want to do everything naturally.  I let my mind drift and do what ever it wants. After a few minutes I play out something gentle in my mind - a walk perhaps or something I know well.  As soon as my mind begins to wander and uninvited thoughts and images pop into my head then I know I've reached a critical stage.  At this point I know I must remain completely passive - I don't try to pull my thoughts together or influence them in anyway.  It is at this point my metaphorical trap door begins to open.  If I influence my thoughts in any conscious way the trap door will shut and I will be fully awake.  All I am trying to do at this point is to keep a little light of consciousness on, gentle and passive.  As I have said, the biggest problem faced here is that when a strong image pops into your head you are so shocked that it bolts you awake...this is where it takes practice.  You must resist the 'bolt' and remain passive.  The longer you hold this the deeper you will to and you will loose sensation entirely and pass through the 'trap door' to the place we go when we are normally asleep - then the fun begins!

I think it is so important to really try to master this before you go any further - it's challenging but fun.

I'm sorry I deal in metaphors and images and perhaps I don't have the articulate skills some of the greatly experienced people on this forum have but I really, really hope this helps alittle - good luck friend!

IndigoRains

[-E-]

wow IndigoRains, thats a real nice little guide there, im gonna try it. So when you imagine yourself walking or something is it a repetitive image, like you walking down an eternal dusty road

or do you consciously put thought into seeing and doing new things, i.e scratching your nose while you walk. i dont know if u know wot i mean but im just thinkin that if i tried to imagine myself walkin then this would keep me awake.

[sleepingsoul]

dang.... this is better info than any techniquies i have read.... it helps me understand now... thanks!

[knightlight]

Nice explanation Rain.  I havent heard anyone explain it that way before and thats a perfect way to do it as well!  Thanks alot.

[kiwibonga]

Yeah, it's the basic trance method, but it's not effective for beginners ; this gives you only one try, and if you fall asleep, you'll have to try again the next day...

That's the reason I started looking into alarms and such -- make an alarm sound every 20 or 30 minutes to ensure that you don't fall asleep for too long. The more tries you get a night, the faster your development will be... The results are truly amazing.

[-E-]

thanks bonga, it does make sense, the more you attempt, the better you get, why waste a failed obe in a night, when you can get in 10 or so practice sessions a nite. hehe thanks, im doin that 2nite.

[IndigoRains]

Thanks for the nice replies folks, I really wasn't sure if I explained it very well.  

As for the question of putting things into my walk, well no I personally don't.  I want it to be as gentle and as natural as possible.  Sometimes I will feel the breeze, or smell the salt air but that's as far as I go.  Keep it gentle.  The goal is to occupy your mind until images appear.  If you work your mind too hard I think you can delay or even stop images from appearing.

I know it has been said many many times on this forum but trying to consciously project at night is practically wasted effort.  Firstly, I personally am too tired.  My powers of concentration (which at best are rugged) are at there weakest and I find myself struggling to hold on to consciousness rather than a gentle and controlled lowering through the 'trap door'.  Conscious projection is a balancing act.  Of course you need to stay awake - so take that struggle out of the equation.  Practice, if you can, sometime during the day - or a couple of hours before your normal bed time.  Separate completely bed/sleep time from practice time.  Once this is done the effort can then be concentrated on the controlled lowering to sleep.  I have found, once falling asleep is taken out of the equation things become a little easier.

The second part of the balancing act while staying awake is to lower yourself (your body and 98% of your mind) to sleep.  Believe me - this is not easy.  I too have tried the alarm clock method.  It personally didn't work for me because sometime time into it I would wonder how long I had before it would go off - then bang! out I would come!  There is one method I used when starting out.  It worked for me so I will share it.  Relax in the normal way - deep breaths and allow the mind to do what ever it wants.  You have your eyes closed.  Allow yourself to drift then suddenly open your eyes sharply - feel the changes in your body as it adjusts to fully awake.  Now, try to remember where you were before you opened your eyes - close them again and get to that point.  Go a little deeper - then open them sharply.  I repeated this several times and at regular intervals - say every 3 mins.  I was so surprised at how quickly I could get back to the state I was before I opened my eyes.  The important thing is do not move - at all!!  You can 'feel' the numbness spreading through your body.  The point of this exercise is that you get into the habit of retaining consciousness.  The second part to this is crucial.  Close your eyes again drift to point where you would have opened your eyes but this time don't - simply pull your consciousness to the front of your mind - repeat this once again several times.  Don't open your eyes.  Finally, let yourself go.  Let yourself fall asleep and see what happens.  The objective here is to fall through the trap door to sleep then moments later your conscious mind awakes through habit and suddenly, as I did, you could find yourself down the road or half in half out of the floor in the front room in front of the TV.  That was a little one that really worked well for me at the beginning.

One more thing - sorry you're gonna get bored of me in a mo - laying on a bed for 20-30 mins and expecting to project may only lead to disappointment.  To do this takes time.  It can take 10 mins just to relax.  It can take another 10 mins before images appear...of course it may not.  What I'm saying is firstly, put aside ample time for practice.  One good one hour session is far better than three half hearted attempts.  Be prepared to spend time doing this.  Even now it can take 20 mins for images to appear for me - then I know I've only just started.  

I've got soooo much more I could say!  Please guys, keep up the practice - it is so worth it.  Break it down into chewable part.  The first objective is not to project.  Get to mind awake/body asleep.  Nothing can start till then.  Focus on that first.

I'll post more soon.  All the best guys.

IndigoRains

[Aetna]

There is one method I used when starting out.  It worked for me so I will share it.  Relax in the normal way - deep breaths and allow the mind to do what ever it wants.  You have your eyes closed.  Allow yourself to drift then suddenly open your eyes sharply - feel the changes in your body as it adjusts to fully awake.  Now, try to remember where you were before you opened your eyes - close them again and get to that point.  Go a little deeper - then open them sharply.  I repeated this several times and at regular intervals - say every 3 mins.  I was so surprised at how quickly I could get back to the state I was before I opened my eyes.  The important thing is do not move - at all!!  You can 'feel' the numbness spreading through your body.  The point of this exercise is that you get into the habit of retaining consciousness.  The second part to this is crucial.  Close your eyes again drift to point where you would have opened your eyes but this time don't - simply pull your consciousness to the front of your mind - repeat this once again several times.  Don't open your eyes.  Finally, let yourself go.  Let yourself fall asleep and see what happens.  The objective here is to fall through the trap door to sleep then moments later your conscious mind awakes through habit and suddenly, as I did, you could find yourself down the road or half in half out of the floor in the front room in front of the TV.  That was a little one that really worked well for me at the beginning.

Realling interesting method here, especially about 'opening-your-eyes-suddenly' every so often. It makes me think, like you can rock your consciousness awake after letting it settle down to sleep for awhile. I'll have to give this a try.

thanks, IndigoRains.

[stone]

This is also why Lucid dreaming is an excellent way to achieve the AP state.  Because your body is quite certainly asleep, yet you've re-entered the conscious state of mind.  For those with problems with the balancing act of the wake/sleep state.  Experiment with Lucid Dreaming... you may find it works better for you.

[knightlight]

Do you have a specific Lucid Dreaming technique you implement?  For me reaching a Lucid Dreaming OR AP'ing state require the same techniques but the thought of using something different specifically for LD's seems interesting... as a matter of fact I have no idea why that hadnt "truely" occured to me before?  Usually I sort of smash those 2 terms together but finding a way to specifically trigger your subconsious to raise your lucidity during dreams hasnt ever crossed my mind.   :doh:

[IndigoRains]

One more little thing.  I sometimes think that people forget that the head is part of the body...

I look at it like this.  Any active muscle acts as a magnet - it stops your body from falling asleep and certainly stops you from projecting.  Most people can relax the larger muscles in the body such as the arms and legs etc.  but the smaller muscles are equally important.  The jaw, eyes, forehead, scalp - the little muscles at the back of your neck.  As part of my relaxation I start on the head and face first and keep popping back to check them.

Oh well - off to work  

[Quo Animo]

IndigoRains. If I try that and I am in the mind awake/body asleep stage can I go to Focus 2 of consciousness from there? In Focus 2(check Astral Faq) all of the senses of the body are intact, your in the imagination. Would it be possible to reach that state from the MA/BA state? Can you also reach the 3D Blackness from that state?

[IndigoRains]

Just a quicky here...

The whole idea of opening the eyes periodically is to trick you mind into staying awake and even if you drift off the chances are you will at the very least become lucid for a time while totally asleep.  Holding it is easy.

Getting to the 3D blackness.  Chances are you will become lucid in the 'void' using this technique unless you have already projected in which case you may find yourself somewhere completely different.  Either way, stay calm.

[Lucid_Learner]

Great advice IR I'll work on reaching OBE one bit at a time.

Can somebody explain 3D blackness to me? I've had times where it feels as if someone has put a tube around my head. It's as if it's pitch black but it looks different dsomehow. Is this the thing you are talking about?

[MisterJingo]

Great advice IR I'll work on reaching OBE one bit at a time.

Can somebody explain 3D blackness to me? I've had times where it feels as if someone has put a tube around my head. It's as if it's pitch black but it looks different dsomehow. Is this the thing you are talking about?

3D blackness to me seems like the darkness behind your eyes suddenly gets depth. Not just depth in front of you, but around you too. Like you are suddenly seeing into a black distance (instead of the 2d back-of-the-eyes), and there is a feeling of space. I get a feeling of increased focus too - but its hard to explain how that feels.

[Lucid_Learner]

That Sounds pretty much what I "feel" but the thing is i've never managed to relax very deeply. So does 3D blackness tend to come before vibes then? I've never experienced vibes either. 

[knightlight]

kind of an old post but...

Dont worry about what order things come in!  I have all sorts of strange orders to things all the time and you dont want to trap your mind or yourself into thinking it has to happen in a certain order.

[Lucid_Learner]

Ahhh great advice. yer I'll just go with the flow and take what comes, learn from it and then I can't go wrong. peace