Help on maintaining Hypnagoic level in meditation.

[Nick]

Kenneth,

By no means am I an expert, rather more of a novice, however I will get images and noises as well.The best I can say is that from reading the posts here people write that with practice we learn to be more still and neutral when these impressions  come.

Take a look at these topics for some good advice:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4254

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1832

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by Kenneth

When I meditate, I often reach a state where I begin to see Hypnagogic images, and hear "voices" very suddenly.

Kenneth: Perhaps I ought to first point out that I know precious little about meditation, and have said a number of times that I'm not at all sure what people who meditate are attempting to achieve. I've received a few answers which sort-of put me in the picture but still, I'm very intrigued by your post.

Reason being, you say you get to the stage where you start to perceive all kinds of abstract images and sounds. But then, after a while, you manage to bypass this stage and go to another stage which you describe as a deeper level of trance. Are you saying this state of being in a deeper level of trance is actual meditation?

Reason why I'm so intrigued is because the onset of abstract images and sounds I recognise right away as Focus 12 (in Monroe-speak). This occurs in the beginning stages of Astral Phasing. What you do is quietly and passively observe these images and just roll along with them and you pop-out within the Astral. (Though, as I've pointed out a number of times in the past, actually doing that is a darned tricky mental balancing act to perform. But it does get easier with practice.)

From what you say, it is possible to in some way bypass this stage (thus avoid Phasing to the Astral) and end up in some kind of deep-level trance state. That being the case, it solves a long-term mystery of why I could neither work out what people meant by "meditation" nor "trance". And the other big mystery was the question of how come there are quite a number of people who can successfully meditate, but who cannot project with the same degree of success.

I posted on another thread yesterday (link below) answering some questions on how to overcome some typical pitfalls in the early stages. It's the penultimate post on page 3. It's the lower half of the post which contains pointers you may find useful. The top half is more to do with creating a mental rundown. People use this to practice by imagining they are Phasing to the Astral. After which they try it for real.

The idea being they use the imaginary rundown in order to kick-start the natural Phasing process. When I say kick-start I mean trigger the Focus 12 state. But, from what you say, you're pretty good at doing this already.

http://www.astraldynamics.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2315

Yours,
Frank

[Kenneth]

Hi Frank!

Thank you very much for your kind and very interesting reply!


quote:
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Originally posted by Frank

I'm not at all sure what people who meditate are attempting to achieve. I've received a few answers which sort-of put me in the picture but still, I'm very intrigued by your post.

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That is actually a very good question, Frank! ... We all speak very much about meditating, but precius few actually tries to find out, why we do it []

For me, the main reason why I meditate is the actual mind-relaxation I get (The mind is resting). No more, no less [].

A couple of days ago, I read something, that got me thinking about how we generally "rest" when we are tired.

But - as I see it, whe can be tired in different ways. Physically, Emotional, Energetically and Mentally. I think, that we can gain a lot as individuals by trying to find the individual form of "rest", that matches the type of tirednes we have, instead of just sleeping our way through it all ?? [].

When we are physically tired, we relax our body (or sleep). When we are energetically tired, we usually place our self in a Beautefull environment or situation where we can get energy (or we sleep). When we are emotionally tired (Like after a big fight), we usually [?], (or sleep). When we are Mentally tired, we usually [?], (or sleep).

I think, that the last questionmark in the above is one of the main reasons that I meditate - to actually give my mind a chance to relax, a chance to sleep! (Usually it doesn't relax when I am sleeping and dreaming, and I know that I have trouble keeping the thoughts from running loose when I am resting my physical body). So for me, what I am trying to achieve is basically a more balanced and better functioning mind.

Normally you don't start doing heavy exercising when you are physically tired, you try to keep your muscles from moving - why should the mind be any different ? []

Okay - that is the main reason why I meditate. But, like great many others, I have found out, that it has many additional benefits.

I find, that I can use my my mind either Passively or actively when meditating, with my point of contiusnes either pointed Inwards or Outwards (Or sometimes even pointed Upwards[]), and combinations of the above - that means i.e. Passively (No thoughts, just "intentions"), "focussing" my Point of contiusnes outward or inwards. This is mostly chosen from how I feel when I start my meditation. (I have not yet discovered the factors that decide why I chose a particular technique or direction, but i hope i will get to that sometime!).

If I should describe a "typical" meditation session for my self, it would be something like:

- Going to bed at night (That is my preferred meditation time, but sometimes I do it in the day as well). I lay on my back, take a couple of deep breaths, and just sort of trying to enjoy the feeling of going to bed, the bedsheets on my body, while I try to decide what I am going to do tonight before I sleep. (Or how I am going to meditate, what technique I am going to use).

Most of the time I also use a little bit of time trying to relax individual parts of my body, focussing on them one at a time. Nothing fancy, just "normal" relaxation techniques.

The main difference between techniques I use are (as I see it), if they keep your focus (your point of contiusnes) pointed inwards or outwards, or if they are focused somewhere in your Body or in your Mind.

- One of the most effective techniques I have for reaching a very deep trance very fast is using my emotions and my body as a sort of "transporter / accellerator" into my very being, and NOT listening to my mind telling me weird things. If you can "create" a "strong" feeling (either good or bad - doesn't really matter), you can usually "feel" it stronger in one part of your body than others.

Try to get that feeling as strong as possible, and when you have a good "grib" on the feeling, imagine your self sinking through the feeling, and FEEL, what is on the other side of that feeling!

(Strange thing about feelings - they are sort of "layered" inside of us - one type of feeling on top of another). The better your totally focus on your "feelings" (and of actually feeling without pushing them away), the faster and easier the result. Your main "opponent" here is your own thoughts actually []

- Keep going down through one feeling after another, until you seem to have reached the buttom, or get a sort of "stuck" feeling in your body, like you can't get deeper. THIS is the tricky and scary part, to be in that "place" or "feeling", and THEN letting go, and sink through that as well (You can try to imagine standing on the edge of a black bottomless hole, and JUMP out in the "darkness" - the first time you do this, it actually feels a little like it would, if you would do it in REAL life - go "jump of a cliff, where you can't see the buttom".

But - it is just a "feeling" like the others, but it also seems to be some sort of a "borderline" between your inner self and your "normal" self [?]. If you manage to get through, you can keep sinking through the new feelings like before, until you reach the innermost YOU. (And this is here, that I keep getting amaced. Once you are there, and you have been focussing totally in through your self, and being able to pinpoint each feeling to a particular place INSIDE of your body, you suddenly seem to be one with your surroundings, one with everything and everyone AROUND AND OUTSIDE of your self. This is THE perfect place (or state of mind) to "rest and recharge" if you are emotionally or energetically or mentally tired - it sort of washes all the stress and anxiety away, and leaves you sort of "pure and innocent", but with a much deeper understanding. Just "floating around" in this state of mind is another of the main purposes of me meditating.

A little benefit from the above method is, that I also use this method extended a little, to handle what Robert Bruce call "Mental images" or "Neg-attachment-points", without just slicing them into pieces. (This I find is a little like choosing the "easy" way out, even though his method IS very effective (And I use it as well!), you don't learn very much from these situations when you just slice and burn them).

(If you are interested in this method as well, just tell me, and I will create another message with the method, but i think it is a little way out of this thread [])

What I find is, that at some point when I drop down through the feelings, I first feel very "heavy" in my body, and a little later i feel like I "extend" in size, and my body feels a little like "cotton". (I think it is my contius moving from my physical body to my energy-body, but I am not sure).

At this point I also experience some sort of physical immobility, and sometimes Adrenaline rushes moving up and down my spine.

If I chose to "shift" my focus from pointing inwards to pointing outwards BEFORE I have reached my inner self, I reach a state where my feet and hands get VERY cold, and my contiusnes is like "floating" in a rather pleasant and VERY silent darknes. If I get further down, I feel like something cold and clammy is sorrounding my hands and feet, so normally I don't go that deep.

So - to summon all this up, meditation is for me:

- Mainly to relax and recharge my batteries, staying balanced.

- Get in "touch" with my inner self, if I have been thrown "out of balance" by the daily events in my life.

- Doing "emotionally cleaning" inside of my self - i.e. old hidden feelings, that interfere with my daily life.

- As a launch pad for a "journey" inside of my own imagination, to repair some part of my body, or to learn from some old hidden away feelings, before I forgive and release them.

A rather lengthy text here, but I hope, that it has helped you as much as it has helped me get a grip on why I meditate ...


Thanks for your question!

(By the way - try reading this and se, if it doesn't match your description of using Tunes and Music for achieving something more ? ... http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3162)

[Frank]

Kenneth: What a fabulously informative reply, thank you!

I've printed it out and will read through it a number of times over the next few days which should save most of to memory. Then I'll see if I can incorporate this line of inner-study to my own work.

Thanks again.

Yours,
Frank

[christuone]

hello, kenneth.

i was greatly interested in your recent post on the use of emotions to reach your inner self, and how it "recharges" your system.

the "seth material" always stressed that the main pathway to the inner self was via one's emotions, but i had never read anyone explain a method of doing this so clearly as what you've written.
amazing!

question:  what particular emotions have you found most useful with your technique ??

also, any further information on "moving through your emotions" would be greatly appreciated... ie presenting it from a different angle or how it varies from one meditation to another.

again,  a very interesting and appreciated work on your part.

nicholas

[Novice]

Hi. I'm new here. Hope you don't mind me 'chiming' in on this.

Kenneth, I found your posts reminiscent of some of the meditations experiences I've had as well. When I get to a certain level in meditation, I'll also see images and hear sounds. I usually don't hear voices, but rather tones. When they first started, I would do exactly as you describe and 'wake' myself up. But I was able to start seperating myself from the images and just observing. I think you stated what you need to do, its just easier said than done. And that is to try not to be surprised by them. Remain calm and indifferent to each one.

I was feeling pretty good about my ability to do that until one day I had such a realistic experience. I was meditating and viewing images as they arose. At one point, I was looking at a lion, laying somewhere in the savannah in the shade of a few trees. I knew it was just an image and simply watched. But then he turned his head and looked me right in the eyes. The connection was so startling I jerked my eyes open to see if he was in my living room! Thus blowing my meditation. I was rattled the rest of the night. It felt like I was there with him.

What I also found interesting was your technique for meditation. I do something similar, but not quite the same. For me, I simply begin focusing on my breath (or sometimes a mantra). But as I focus on it I'll begin detecting energy moving within my body. I just keep focusing on my breath, and I will feel the heaviness that you describe. But I was interested in your feeling of sinking or letting go.

I think you are describing what I do in meditation as well as when I'm lucid. I find it hard to describe except by saying that I simply surrender or let go. ANd when I do that, I can feel myself sink so deeply inside, I don't remember stopping. If I'm lucid and I do this, I usually will open my eyes after only a moment and be somewhere totally different (I believe it to be the astral plane). When I'm meditating, I experience this wonderful expansion of peace.

[Greytraveller]

This is a tip that I picked up after reading both the Russian mystic Ouspensky and the book 'Hypnagogia' by Andreas Mavromatis.
Eventually the hypnagogic images will form into complex patterns. After viewing this for awhile these patterns will become more complex and form short story lines or 'sketches'. The final form of the short sketches will be (once asleep) a full length dream complete with visual images, a coherent plot (usually) and other sensations such as sound and feeling.
Allow the images to become more complex. This involves passive viewing which is to watch the images as you would watch tv. If this is done on a regular basis you will soon find that you have drifted either into light trance or directly into sleep while watching the hypnagogic images.[][|)][]

[goingslow]

I have the same problem.  Ive tried to pay attention to what I do and figure out what the problem is.  

When the white fluidy stuff is swirling around I pretty much know whats going to happen.  But when I start seeing a scene, like a man pushing a box or a person packing It still shocks me and Im suddenly more awake.  

That alone doesn't make the scene disappear I really think I try to focus in with my actual eyes.  Right when I try to focus in it disappears.  even though i try to concentrate on not using my eyes i always focus even a little with them.  I guess the trick is staying in the exact same position the whole time.. without trying to "zoom" in on it.  I used to have the same problem with lucid dreams.  I'd get so excited I'd wake up.. I think maybe over time It will get easier.  I hope anyway.

[Kenneth]

Hi All!

I have a little problem, that I have been trying to figure out for the last 6-8 months, but I have not yet found a sollution, so I could really use your inputs and idéas []

When I meditate, I often reach a state where I begin to see Hypnagogic images, and hear "voices" very suddenly. I would very much like to "investigate" these further, but I can feel, that I get just a little bit "surprised / startled" when it happens, even though I KNOW it will happen.

This is enough to bring me away from this state towards being more awake. (Until now I have only been able to "stay" in this level for about 2-3 seconds max.)

(It's a little bit like, that me being aware that I am seeing and hearing these images and voices is enough to move me away from this condition, and then I have to meditate another 5-7 minutes before I reach this state again.)

I have no trouble going deeper, down to an actual trance, (Both light and deep), but it is this "intermediate" state of mind I would like to investigate and learn from, to see if there is anything "interesting" og useful there!

I am trying to find a way NOT to be startled/ surprised when it happens, so I am able to "stay" in this condition / state, to investigate further!

Any help appreciated []