Do you find it irritating?

[Astralsuzy]

Hi all, do you find this a bit irritating.   On another forum someone says astral projection is dangerous.  I am learning to ignore it and forget about it.   If they want to think it is dangerous I will let them think that.   I tell people that I have good ap experiences and there is nothing to fear.   If they want to listen to me then that is good.   If they do not want to then that is their problem.   

[Lionheart]

Too each there own!

You know better and that's all that counts.

If a certain person is destined to learn AP (which I wholeheartedly believe is true), they will learn it no matter what anyone has to say about it.

It's only dangerous to people that BELIEVE it's dangerous. 

[Astralsuzy]

Thanks Lionheart, you are correct.

[AAAAAAAA]

The astral IS, in fact, dangerous. But only if you think it is, right? Well we are all subconsciously thinking about things that are potentially dangerous to us. The only right answer is this : Anything can happen in the astral.

[Astralsuzy]

What can happen if you think it is dangerous?   It would be like a nightmare.   There are a lot of people that have nightmares or bad dreams and they all wake up.   They are not hurt.    Their experience would not be pleasant but nothing bad happened to them.   I have never heard of any harm that someone had from a bad dream or nightmare.

[AAAAAAAA]

What can happen if you think it is dangerous?   It would be like a nightmare.   There are a lot of people that have nightmares or bad dreams and they all wake up.   They are not hurt.    Their experience would not be pleasant but nothing bad happened to them.   I have never heard of any harm that someone had from a bad dream or nightmare.

I think you are confused. Pojection isn't a dream. The astral is something that is as real to you and me as this "physical" world. Having a bad projection is much worse than having one of those bad dream things.

What can happen?

-You can be tortured
-You can be stalked
-You can be harassed by other pojectors/travelers
-Anything

You seem to be taking astral travel too lightly. It's more than just travel, it's experience, and you can get your hands on information that other travelers don't want you to have.

[urshebear]

The physical can be dangerous too, but its people who dwell on the negative that bring that very same energy into their own lives.

I have had family tell me that I am opening myself up to demon possession, my reply was that I have never heard of someone being possessed from AP however I have heard of people becoming "possessed" by just living their everyday lives (to be honest I don't even know if I really believe in that stuff though) aaaand also, we all do it, It may not always be remembered but we all do.

[Astralsuzy]

AAAAAAAA  I suppose you are right.   If you thought it was dangerous, it probably would be.   A lot of awful things would happen.   You may not feel any pain but depending on your thoughts you could feel pain.   When you wake up you would find everything would be back to normal.   The awful things would be gone. 

urshebear  I think the same as you.   If you dwell on the negative that can encourage bad things to happen.   I know someone who complains about everything.    She has a lot of bad things that happen and bad things seems to be attracted to her.   My husband and mother did not agree with me when I talked to them about it.   
I have never heard of people being possessed.   I do not believe people can be possessed but I suppose anything is possible.   There is a lot about the unknown that we do not know about.   

[AAAAAAAA]

AAAAAAAA  I suppose you are right.   If you thought it was dangerous, it probably would be.   A lot of awful things would happen.   You may not feel any pain but depending on your thoughts you could feel pain.   When you wake up you would find everything would be back to normal.   The awful things would be gone. 

urshebear  I think the same as you.   If you dwell on the negative that can encourage bad things to happen.   I know someone who complains about everything.    She has a lot of bad things that happen and bad things seems to be attracted to her.   My husband and mother did not agree with me when I talked to them about it.   
I have never heard of people being possessed.   I do not believe people can be possessed but I suppose anything is possible.   There is a lot about the unknown that we do not know about.   

The thing that I feel I need to stress on this forum is that it's not as simple as playing "god" in the astral. Even people who think that they are limitless and can't get hurt, can still definitely get hurt. The limitless part is true, but only if you know the "ropes" on the astral. No matter how much it is mentioned, people don't seem to get that the astral is a real place where real things happen. What would happen to someone, if they were human, and they were caught sneaking into Atlantis? Thinking that you are God won't stop the Atlantians from coming after you... in fact it gives them all the more reason to want to imprison and/or torture you.... The astral is a REAL place where REAL things happen. So sure, thinking positively and limitlessly will definitely help, just like in the real world. But no one is completely "touch-less". You can always be targeted by other beings. All it takes is one mistake, and everyone is extremely vulnerable to that since each and every one of us are imperfect.

[Lionheart]

 AAAAAAAA, real things happen there. But what happens there does NOT effect our physical body here.

You don't wake up with broken bones here when you fall in the NP.

If we did, I'm sure just about everyone here on Earth would be the "walking wounded". Everyone has had a falling Dream at some point in their lives.

[AAAAAAAA]

AAAAAAAA, real things happen there. But what happens there does NOT effect our physical body here.

You don't wake up with broken bones here when you fall in the NP.

If we did, I'm sure just about everyone here on Earth would be the "walking wounded". Everyone has had a falling Dream at some point in their lives.

Dreaming is not projecting. Besides, most people wake up before they hit the ground during this "falling" dream.

There's a major problem with classifying everything as the NP. And it's that, while you are right that they are, I suppose, non physical, there are still differences between each state of mind, whether it be dreaming, lucid dreaming, projecting, etc., etc.

I should also mention that you are very wrong. Various things can change due to things that happen in the astral. Hell, even just a regular dream can change your body. One example would be temperature. During intense situations, your body acts as if a situation in your dream is real. I should also mention sleep walking. No, it doesn't happen to everyone, but it does happen. If your body doesn't paralyze itself during a different state of mind, any dreams you have will be acted out with your physical body. That is an example of how things that happen "there" effects your physical body.

EDIT: I forgot also to mention your mental health. Anything and everything that happens "there" will also affect that.

[Lionheart]

 AAAAAAAA, your opinion is duly noted.

This quote is from Edain McCoy from her book "Astral Projection for Beginners". She says "Astral Projection is defined as any state in which your consciousness is immersed in a different time or place from that of your physical body. By this definition the act of Dreaming is also a form of Astral Projection". She goes on to say that "It surprises many beginners to find that most regular Astral Travelers make little or no distinction between Dreaming and Astral Projection - rather, they have discovered that harnessing the "Power of Dreams" can become an excellent conduit for controlled Astral Travel".

[AAAAAAAA]

AAAAAAAA, your opinion is duly noted.

This quote is from Edain McCoy from her book "Astral Projection for Beginners". She says "Astral Projection is defined as any state in which your consciousness is immersed in a different time or place from that of your physical body. By this definition the act of Dreaming is also a form of Astral Projection". She goes on to say that "It surprises many beginners to find that most regular Astral Travelers make little or no distinction between Dreaming and Astral Projection - rather, they have discovered that harnessing the "Power of Dreams" can become an excellent conduit for controlled Astral Travel".

This is only an interpretation, though. I can choose to make this kind of realization, or not. You are correct, if you choose to look at the semantics.

From my POV, they are two different things because when I "dream", i dont take control, and often times the events that occur in these uncontrolled dreams can mean absolutely nothing. When I project, imalways scavenging for information, learning specific other things or converting and/or changing "data".

[Lionheart]

From my POV, they are two different things because when I "dream", i dont take control, and often times the events that occur in these uncontrolled dreams can mean absolutely nothing. When I project, imalways scavenging for information, learning specific other things or converting and/or changing "data".

That doesn't have to be the case though. I do take control of my actions in my Dreams. I know I am Dreaming and for that reason I have full control over my actions.

The difference is, I am waking up in this state, in a full blown scenario. Now I need to first gain my bearings, then my awareness. Aping while consciously aware, I am totally aware of everything, every step of the way.

I used to think there was a difference as well. But then I found that I didn't have to just watch my Dreams, but I could be consciously participating in them as well. They now are as vivid and real as this physical reality is. This took a long time to develop. But through constant mental affirmations and conditioning I do it often, almost every night now.

The thing with awakening in a Dream is that sure it starts as a subconscious destination or event, but once you start actively participating in it, the entire plot of the scenario can and usually does change on a dime. You can also totally wipe that scenario and create anew, which most people would label "projecting from a Dream". But all you have really done is changed your destination/circumstances via intent.

[AAAAAAAA]

Your opinion is duly noted

[Volgerle]

dreaming just describes the state of awareness, not the 'place' you are in, it's all "in" NPR (the astral, etc.) which is beyond time-space, hence 'places' do not apply, everything is real

lots of reports exist where "projectors" (lucid) have met "dreamers" (non-lucid) and the dreamers remember the experience and they can confirm it to each other (I could retrieve them but I'm too lazy right now, made a post of a collection of accounts some time ago, iirc)

Robert Monroe categorised the dreamers as Focus 22 within his system:

Focus 22: Within Focus 22 we often find those perhaps still physically alive who are in an unconscious state. These include people in comas, in drug induced states, who are dreaming, who are insane or deranged. This is a very chaotic level.

http://www.monroeinstitute.org/resources/overview-of-focus-levels

Focus 22 - At this level people are unconscious or partly conscious. People in coma, suffering from delirium or dementia, under the influence of drugs or alcohol; patients who are anesthetized or comatose. This level is chaotic, people are confused and very difficult to communicate with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_level

The vast level of Focus 22 is characterized by human dream realities, as conscious awareness moves further into the field. Lucid dreaming, of course, is characterized by full awareness and the knowledge that you can control the reality you are dreaming (producing). It is that knowingness which transforms the experience into a lucid one.  Being in Focus 22 and not awake is typical of someone who is in a coma. This is a place where your awareness begins to move further into non-physical 4th density, and your thoughts begin to directly manifest. Everything you think, is.

http://www.trufax.org/matrix5/segments/gradients.html

Other authors have drawn similar "maps" and included the 'dream world' to be part of the astral / NPR

[AAAAAAAA]

dreaming just describes the state of awareness, not the 'place' you are in, it's all "in" NPR (the astral, etc.) which is beyond time-space, hence 'places' do not apply, everything is real

lots of reports exist where "projectors" (lucid) have met "dreamers" (non-lucid) and the dreamers remember the experience and they can confirm it to each other (I could retrieve them but I'm too lazy right now, made a post of a collection of accounts some time ago, iirc)

Robert Monroe categorised the dreamers as Focus 22 within his system:
http://www.monroeinstitute.org/resources/overview-of-focus-levels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_level
http://www.trufax.org/matrix5/segments/gradients.html

Other authors have drawn similar "maps" and included the 'dream world' to be part of the astral / NPR

I'm just curious as to why people have a fascination with taking an authors point of view as fact without a second thought. I'm not saying you or anyone else is wrong, I'm just curious as to why people use famous authors as references.

EDIT : Also, why is it that "places" don't apply? You can be within a physical environment whilst projecting. I have had multiple experiences where being in the astral can be in a specific place and a specific time, and even interact with the physical world.

[Lionheart]

I'm just curious as to why people have a fascination with taking an authors point of view as fact without a second thought. I'm not saying you or anyone else is wrong, I'm just curious as to why people use famous authors as references.

Because many of these famous Authors are basing their point of view on years of personal experience in this field. They also use stats based on what most people are experiencing. Many of these famous Authors have many miles behind them (older).

Nobody blindly believes anything they read (at least they shouldn't). The books open their minds and then they get the chance to see what's going on and what isn't for themselves.

[Szaxx]

I've experienced extremes of good/ bad places and these were a necessary part of development. There's nothing presented I couldn't do or understand that left me in any mentally challenging predicament.
I was on my own and learned the hard way.
I'll not post any negative experiences as these are only for personal development.
I still have these experiences and my most recent is instructing me to ease back on certain actions while physical. I was given a simulated heart attack. This was unpleasant and researching what happens was an eye opener. I have 4 years to correct my ways and these experiences are pure gold.
I've also known this for decades and now is the time to do as I'm told.
Following these explicit instructions given while NP has given me many decades free from illness. I've had 26 years free of getting a common cold as a result. That's now ended unfortunately.
This is all linked together with many experiences over a long time.
I'm sure others have had these ' instructions' on what to do.
It's like a reverse retrieval lol.
There's nothing to fear and although there's many bad edperiences posted around the internet most are misunderstood or not interpreted correctly.
There's a lesson to learn in this and that's what applies to one person doesn't apply to everyone.
It's good that we communicate through personal experiences. It's not good having anyone attempting to indoctrinate anything that isn't part of a commonality of these shared experiences.
A look at religion should make this apparent. You are TOLD what to do, even though the ideals are similar, they each have their distinct operational practices and biases. Its unfortunate that wars have started over mans egoistic ways of representing their religious beliefs.
A belief is not a truth, its a representation, we really don't have the need to shoot the messenger.
He's obviously offering a representation himself.

[AAAAAAAA]

Because many of these famous Authors are basing their point of view on years of personal experience in this field. They also use stats based on what most people are experiencing. Many of these famous Authors have many miles behind them (older).

Nobody blindly believes anything they read (at least they shouldn't). The books open their minds and then they get the chance to see what's going on and what isn't for themselves.

It's unfortunate, though, how people would rather listen to someone because they are apparently "credible", rather than taking an understanding to their own experiences.

[Lionheart]

It's unfortunate, though, how people would rather listen to someone because they are apparently "credible", rather than taking an understanding to their own experiences.

I guess for some you missed the bottom of my statement, so I will show it you again.

Nobody blindly believes anything they read (at least they shouldn't). The books open their minds and then they get the chance to see what's going on and what isn't for themselves.

[AAAAAAAA]

I guess for some you missed the bottom of my statement, so I will show it you again.

Nobody blindly believes anything they read (at least they shouldn't). The books open their minds and then they get the chance to see what's going on and what isn't for themselves.

I didn't miss it, I simply disagreed with it. Everywhere around us, there are people who blindly believe everything they read.

[Lionheart]

I didn't miss it, I simply disagreed with it. Everywhere around us, there are people who blindly believe everything they read.

Did you go or do you still go to school? Of course you did. So you were once or still are one of the ones that blindly believe everything that was and is being said. So were all of us at one time. The difference was we were too young to question. We just got in line like all the others.

But as we grew up we saw that we can question things and in that we could ascertain what was really happening based on our own experiences. We learned to "see through" and trust what we were personally experiencing.

Thousands of NP experiences later, we can see what is real and what isn't. It's hard to come to any realistic conclusions until you have a reasonable amount of personal experiences under your belt.

That's why this Art is called a "practice". The more you get there, the more you learn. Just like any other skill you undertake in life. But, you have to start somewhere and that's where the books/videos and AP Forums in general can be and are helpful.

[Astralsuzy]

Lionheart is correct.   I like reading ap books but I do not believe everything I read.   I might find something that can give me good ideas.   It can be fun to read.   Sometimes I think it is junk so I do not read anymore where I think it is rubbish.    With ap no one is wrong or right as you cannot prove it.    Perhaps we should end the discussion here.    I would not want to cause arguments.    I am starting to regret writing this topic.   You will never get people to agree.    If you think ap is dangerous then you are entitled to think that.    If I thought ap was dangerous I would not ap.   I am not irritated with people who think ap is dangerous.    I have to accept people think differently and that is the way it will always be. 

[AAAAAAAA]

Did you go or do you still go to school? Of course you did. So you were once or still are one of the ones that blindly believe everything that was and is being said. So were all of us at one time. The difference was we were too young to question. We just got in line like all the others.

But as we grew up we saw that we can question things and in that we could ascertain what was really happening based on our own experiences. We learned to "see through" and trust what we were personally experiencing.

Thousands of NP experiences later, we can see what is real and what isn't. It's hard to come to any realistic conclusions until you have a reasonable amount of personal experiences under your belt.

That's why this Art is called a "practice". The more you get there, the more you learn. Just like any other skill you undertake in life. But, you have to start somewhere and that's where the books/videos and AP Forums in general can be and are helpful.

How does going to school allow me to fall into that group? Because I go to school, and I believe what they teach in science class about evolution? That's not a blind belief. Evolution definitely exists, and all of us had experienced it before we ever even learned what to call it from school.