Does the body really have to be asleep?

[Stookie]

Here's a quote I found by Frank relating to the subject:

The other point I wanted to mention is there is no absolute necessity to lose contact with the physical. So don't be surprised either if one day you find yourself at Focus-21 while being totally aware of your physical body. It's just that again, for beginners, it is easier to think of the physical body being out of the Phasing equation.

(found from here: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17561&highlight=phasing )

I think that this is important because it can really throw a beginner off. It did me.

[Quo Animo]

i threw away all of that terminology last night and have decided to make this a personal journey and make observations and progress based on my observations of the past. i am starting from the ground up. my mind was racing last night. i wrote over 4 full pages on observations alone and diff. theories and i almost entered my mind(3d blackness) today which i haven't even came close to doing before. what works for another person doesn't mean it works for everybody which is why people like frank and monroe where so successful in phasing.

[Stookie]

Good job. If there is one thing I've learned, it's try not to have any preconcieved notions or "rules" to any of this. Experience is the only way to learn, and when you're expecting something that's not going to happen, you'll be missing out on true experience. Follow your intuition. Take all advice with a grain of salt, no matter how "advanced" they are.

[upstream]

Wise words, Stookie.

I've just recently build a new system to get rid off, probably the 78th one.

This time it looks different though (as always), so I thought, before the real me sail into the Infinite, leaving behind a decent, honest citizen in the tampon and perfume business, I have to process and share things I gathered during the past years.

Will my Self survive?

[upstream]

But seriously, this likely won't happen with any of us. If it could, common lucid dream and OBE activity would have been seen later as a profound waste of opportunity. (or a serious learning experience)

[Stookie]

I've been trying to keep an open mind, expecting ANYTHING to happen, trying to remove all concepts of "body" and "vision", etc. so something new can happen. The main reason I started this thread was because my experiences weren't coinciding with what was "supposed" to happen. Mainly, that my body isn't asleep during every projection. I know that when people talk about that happening, it's more "advanced" projectors. Maybe the reason why most don't experience it is because they immediately think it's not possible. My experiences have gone up in numbers and control since getting rid of expectations - and they aren't what I ever expected.

I know that many "rules" that authors have created for beginners were holding me back. Not that they were wrong, but I was reading into it too much. Sometimes you have to take a step back and go with your gut.

[MisterJingo]

I've been trying to keep an open mind, expecting ANYTHING to happen, trying to remove all concepts of "body" and "vision", etc. so something new can happen. The main reason I started this thread was because my experiences weren't coinciding with what was "supposed" to happen. Mainly, that my body isn't asleep during every projection. I know that when people talk about that happening, it's more "advanced" projectors. Maybe the reason why most don't experience it is because they immediately think it's not possible. My experiences have gone up in numbers and control since getting rid of expectations - and they aren't what I ever expected.

I know that many "rules" that authors have created for beginners were holding me back. Not that they were wrong, but I was reading into it too much. Sometimes you have to take a step back and go with your gut.

My view of this is increasingly don't categorise things, don't make assumptions, don't have preexpectations.
Even things like differentiating between OBEs, AP, LDs, semi-Lucid dreams can create barriers. Just take each experience on the merits of the experience itself.
I've experienced AP while still aware of my body, and AP while having no body awareness.
I've also experienced how reading too much into author's models of OBE/AP can create barriers. Their models might work for them, but each of us is different and each of us must find our own way. Places like this can share experience, but nothing beats first hand experimentation and an open mind.
If something's not working for you, try something different, or change the thing you are trying. Also, rely on your own intuition in these maters and have confidence that you can achieve your goal (in this case projection). Doubting your ability to do this can stop it from happening.
Just go with it. Let go of expectations of what you think will happen, and just experience what does happen.

Also, be aware. Something I have learnt is that so much passes below our awareness because it is so subtle. External sensory input drowns out so much internal experience. Simply look for it in a playful, aware mind state.

[Shuriken]

I don't think you have to be asleep
I've heard of one of my friend's friends trying to have an obe and falling in a hallway while walking

There was also this one time when my friend said they were fighting some form of dark force and had their bodies go through one of those baseball fences for the dugout without breaking it

[Alaskans]

This morning when I was totally knocked out I heard my subconscious (or my astral consciousness?) tell me a couple times 'the time for astral projection is now'. I was too out of it to focus or even realize I was being talked to, but I trust my 'subconscious' more than me  :hug: He's always watched over me while I sleep, among other things. I think at least for me, a beginner, I need to be in deep sleep to really leave.
I think your right about the rules thing, I think its horribly distracting. I did feel reading too much stunts you some, however, I think some conversation about experiences is good for new people. I got into AP after reading Anne's experiences (astralvoyage), I was more captivated by what she said than anything in my life. For years Ive been finding great philosophical and spiritual (and scientific) answers while mostly asleep (now I know it relates to the astral plane). I came to a point where I knew I had to experience these things first hand, I thought I would have to wait till I died, but I was wrong  :rolling: I'm willing to dedicate my life to AP.
But one thing about the rules (dont go head first). I don't know for sure if it was my imagination or not, but I tried an exit head first (quite forcefully). I managed to get most of my head free from my body then I got scared (I hadent read you cant be harmed in the astral) and my physical body woke up before I went back. I could have sworn half of my energy body(s) was detached and floating like smoke in front of me, it was a horrible feeling. (I recovered after a few mins.) I don't know if you can suffer permanent damage from that but maybe its not so bad a rule to not go head first (unfortunately it doesn't seem like I'm making progress legs or arms first).