Finally, success! Here's how I did it

[Adepto]

Then what distinguishes the phase from what Robert Monroe and Thomas Campbell experienced? If it's one and the same then it implies they somehow imagined everything.

From what has been said I know now that I've accessed the phase many times, but mostly by accident upon awakening. They were never too different from a lucid dream except I guess I was more lucid when 'rolling out' to access the phase.

So does that mean there's nothing useful I can do with phasing, because it's just dreaming?

[bluremi]

Nobody can say for sure that they imagined everything, but I can definitely say that it's possible that they imagined everything. Humans as a species are very susceptible to delusion. Look at false awakenings, for example. This is when you "wake up" from a dream, but are still actually dreaming without being aware of it. This is extremely common for people who astral project, OBE, whatever you want to call it. In his book, Monroe says that his travels and experiences gave him magical powers that protected him in real life, and as an example describes an event where he fell down some stairs head first and instead of breaking his neck, floated gently to the floor.

I think if you're very credulous, you could take this story at face value, but I think a more honest and simpler explanation is that this was a dream he had that he's confused with reality. False awakenings are often remembered as real events. He even said (as did Campbell) that he started to get confused between fantasy and reality once he spent more and more time there.

If you want to gain super powers and "knowledge beyond the ken of man" through phasing, I guess it's a dead end for you. However, it's still a pretty amazing skill set: you can use it to get over your fears and phobias, practice skills you can use in real life, explore worlds and have experiences that you would never be able to attain in reality... You watch movies, right? You could visit any movie environment you wanted and play with the characters.

Also, lots of people believe the phase is some kind of portal to an objective reality outside our consciousness, and they claim they can heal people, see the future, go in the past, talk to dead relatives, etc. They make these claims despite having access to the phase for years, so it's obviously real enough for them to continue believing it.

I don't think anybody who's experienced the phase's true potential would dismiss it as having no use.

[Adepto]

I mean only to say that I presumed that learning to astral project would give me the answers I have been searching for.

Funnily enough, I've had my questions answered often enough, but once the experience fades I end up as if nothing special had happened.

The last time I used psychedelics with a friend (Hawaiian Baby Woodrose) I thought I had my first irrefutable affirmation when the friend I was with was able to experience telepathy with me. I had never believed in it before or even read or heard anything about it, and can still hardly believe it, but as regards personal experience I am 99% certain it is real now.

But I guess deep down what still haunts me is that 1%; in search of the absolute, nothing seems truly knowable in the end.

[Xanth]

Then what distinguishes the phase from what Robert Monroe and Thomas Campbell experienced? If it's one and the same then it implies they somehow imagined everything.

I'm assuming you're talking about "the phase" in terms of Michael Raduga.  Nothing distinguishes them.  They're just different metaphors describing the same action.  It, however, doesn't imply that they imagined everything... I'm curious as to how you came to that implication.  

From what has been said I know now that I've accessed the phase many times, but mostly by accident upon awakening. They were never too different from a lucid dream except I guess I was more lucid when 'rolling out' to access the phase.

Right.  That's how I view the differences too... only differing levels of conscious awareness.

So does that mean there's nothing useful I can do with phasing, because it's just dreaming?

Tell me what is "dreaming"?

You still seem to hold a belief that dreaming is something separate from projecting.  Lots of people hold that belief... I do not.

Personally, I don't think "dreaming" exists.  You're never dreaming... there's no such thing as "dreaming".
Dreaming is a projection where you're simply unconscious of the fact you're projecting.  To me it's just painfully obvious and simple.

I have an example of what I mean: http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2011/10/03/dream-vs-lucidastral-experience/

I mean only to say that I presumed that learning to astral project would give me the answers I have been searching for.

Well, honestly... you learn in the same manner you would learn something here while physical.  When you project, you don't magically gain new understanding of anything... you still have to learn the hard way, by direct experience.  Ask around while you're non-physical and see what you can figure out.

Funnily enough, I've had my questions answered often enough, but once the experience fades I end up as if nothing special had happened.

Until you gain a bit of control over your experiences, this will usually be how things end up.  You learn control through practice and further meditation.

But I guess deep down what still haunts me is that 1%; in search of the absolute, nothing seems truly knowable in the end.

Just keep working towards having experiences. 

[Adepto]

I understand what you're suggesting Xanth, I remember it being a core belief of yours from previous browsing of the forum.

However, the situation I am struggling with is that in my 'lucid dreams' I don't seem to have any access to anything remotely profound. I'm stuck swimming with my imagination.

The one thing I can't understand is that if dreaming/lucid dreaming/astral projecting gives us a pathway to some deeper reality beyond our physical mind, then why does anything objective not come of it? As with Monroe, why could he not write a first hand account of life in ancient Rome if he had a 'past life' there that he could access and view in its entirety?

What the guy who wrote this book on phasing says is that phasing doesn't prove life after death - the implication is that indeed, it is dependent upon the physical mind.

[Xanth]

However, the situation I am struggling with is that in my 'lucid dreams' I don't seem to have any access to anything remotely profound. I'm stuck swimming with my imagination.

It's probable that you're lacking control.  That's all.
When lucid, you may realize you're dreaming, but the goals specific to your waking awareness might not be first and foremost in your mind.  It's about learning to increase your awareness to an astral level, then going forth directly related to your goals.  Otherwise, no, you probably won't find much in the way of anything remotely profound.  You COULD be stuck just mucking around in the non-physical with no goals.

You see the same stuff happening in this physical reality too.

The one thing I can't understand is that if dreaming/lucid dreaming/astral projecting gives us a pathway to some deeper reality beyond our physical mind, then why does anything objective not come of it? As with Monroe, why could he not write a first hand account of life in ancient Rome if he had a 'past life' there that he could access and view in its entirety?

Monroe had quite a few objective verifications.  Lots of other people have found similar. Is that what you're looking for?
I can't answer your specific question though.  Sorry.  :/

But in any case, you sound like you're in a state of over-analyzing your experiences and comparing them to others.

What the guy who wrote this book on phasing says is that phasing doesn't prove life after death - the implication is that indeed, it is dependent upon the physical mind.

As evidence, it supports life after death... as proof, it's severely lacking.

[Adepto]

Thank you very much for your patience, Xanth. I imagine these are the sort of questions that might get thrown around a lot and people with more experience such as yourself might be tired of hearing them repeated over and over.

Personal experience tells me there's so much more going on, especially since before I'd read anything about Monroe I had the feeling of oneness and other sensations and thoughts (even likening reality to a giant computer improving itself before I'd ever heard of Thomas Campbell) which I found later when I started reading.

I guess in the end I'm just afraid. There's nobody I know who has more experience than I do in this field and my experience is negligible. Then there's the fact that the majority of mankind has barely any idea there's more to the universe than what they get through their 'five' senses, and if I said anything, I'd be regarded as crazy.

So I begin to wonder if I am just imagining everything.

I'm watching this interview right now and Thomas Campbell references the verifications.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjUGk3ieA-U&feature=related
So that's encouraging.

[Xanth]

Thank you very much for your patience, Xanth. I imagine these are the sort of questions that might get thrown around a lot and people with more experience such as yourself might be tired of hearing them repeated over and over.

You're very welcome.  For myself, I'm as much a learner in this as everyone else here. 

So I begin to wonder if I am just imagining everything.

You might be.  WE might be. 
There's really only one way to find out though... and that's through direct first-hand experience. 

[light487]

Why don't you describe exactly what you're doing?

Well.. I've been using the intent/affirmations to:

1. Remind myself to wake up without moving/opening eyes.
2. Remind myself to practise the phasing indirect techniques within the first few seconds of waking.
3. Remind myself of the fact that I am more than physical matter (as per Monroe's TMI affirmation).

So it would go something like:

"I will remember to wake up without moving or opening my eyes."
"I will remember to practise my phasing techniques as soon as I wake up."
"I am more than my physical body...etc"

I will also recall my 3 techniques that I will use in my cycling.. all with a clear, background intent to experience phasing. I mean, I will say all these, in my mind, with the underlying intent of "deeply desiring" to experience the phase.

Prior to this, for the first few days, I did very short (15mins) practise sessions to get a feel for the indirect techniques and which ones my deeper consciousness reacts to. I find that the "body tensing" (without using actual muscles) works really well at increasing the "sound" within my head.. and then that of course would lead to me using the "listening in" technique and my third is using the "noticing for pictures" technique, just to keep it different from the other two.

Anyway, I've yet to wake up being anywhere near a state of being able to do anything.. and as per my previous post, I feel a lot more cloudy and groggy than I had before I started to attempt these methods..

[bluremi]

If you're cloudy and groggy it might be a good opportunity to do the cycles right away, even if you've woken up and moved.

Do 15-30 seconds of Forced Falling Asleep, and then go through the cycles. Do at least 5 cycles, don't stop early. A lot of people go through cycle after cycle only to be surprised when it works on the seventh or eighth cycle.

[light487]

If you're cloudy and groggy it might be a good opportunity to do the cycles right away, even if you've woken up and moved.

Do 15-30 seconds of Forced Falling Asleep, and then go through the cycles. Do at least 5 cycles, don't stop early. A lot of people go through cycle after cycle only to be surprised when it works on the seventh or eighth cycle.

I don't fully understand the "Forced Falling Asleep" technique.. I've read through its description a few times but don't really understand it..

[Xanth]

I don't fully understand the "Forced Falling Asleep" technique.. I've read through its description a few times but don't really understand it..

I've never heard of it.
Could someone explain? 

[bluremi]

This is where you try to remember the last time you were very tired and quickly fell asleep, then try to recreate that sensation mentally for about 10 seconds.

It's used when you've just woken up and accidentally moved, making it harder to enter the phase. This method dials your wakefulness down a few notches and makes the cycles more effective.

It probably comes more easily and intuitively to people who meditate and are able to quickly quiet their mind and relax, but Raduga says you can get good at it with just a few days of practice.

[Xanth]

Interesting.

My thoughts...

That *IS* a meditation. 

It's also a good phasing exercise... we (or at least *I*) call it a Mental Rundown.  But instead of visualizing a scene that you're putting yourself into, you're mentally running through the process and feelings associated with falling asleep in an effort to invoke that very same state, yet staying mentally aware.  If you can do this, you have a pretty good grasp on meditation already, you just might not realize it.

No offense to people like Frank and Raduga... I'm not so certain about Raduga, but Frank always swore that he knew nothing of meditation and tried very hard to separate meditation from his "phasing" (enter the phase, or phasing, etc) practices.  Frank never made the connection, but what he did kind of made him a master meditator, he just never realized it or didn't want to realize it due to not wanting to call it "meditation" because of the attachments that the word meditation comes with.

If you give me an exercise or method, I can explain to you how it's a "meditation".

[bluremi]

Prayer is also a form of meditation, but we don't recommend deep prayer as a technique to have an OBE.

Raduga doesn't recommend meditation because although it's helpful, it is also tangential. You don't need to be a skilled meditator to use his techniques. It will help, of course, but it's like hiring a professional race car driver to chauffeur you to the post office.

[Xanth]

Prayer is also a form of meditation, but we don't recommend deep prayer as a technique to have an OBE.

A rose by any other name still smells as sweet.

You *COULD* recommend it as a technique to have an OBE.  That's my point. 

Raduga doesn't recommend meditation because although it's helpful, it is also tangential. You don't need to be a skilled meditator to use his techniques. It will help, of course, but it's like hiring a professional race car driver to chauffeur you to the post office.

What you don't realize is that every single one of his techniques are meditation based.
Anytime you're quieting your mind and focusing it towards an intended goal... you're meditating.

You're free to use whatever metaphor you wish to describe this though. 

That's why, in my opinion, it's more beneficial to put the horse in front of the cart first and learn to meditate first. 
You'll make more headway, and quicker, than otherwise.

[bluremi]

What you don't realize is that every single one of his techniques are meditation based.
Anytime you're quieting your mind and focusing it towards an intended goal... you're meditating.

Yeah, I get it, okay? I'm telling you that recommending months of meditation to beginners is needlessly off-putting when all they want to do is have a lucid dream, not to "lower the entropy of their consciousness."

Also all your smileys are passive-aggressive 

[Xanth]

My girlfriend REALLY hates my smiley usage... I guess she's got a point now.  LoL
I really do mean them in the best sense though. 

In any case this really has nothing to do with Tom Campbell and his lowering entropy theory.
If you want to do anything metaphysical, "meditation" is, in my opinion (*my* opinion, not Tom's hehe), the very foundation of what you need to learn.  The rest comes naturally out of that practice.  I'm also not recommending "months" of it... I'm actually recommending that it become a permanent lifestyle change.

[blossom123]

ok, I just downloaded this book!  I am excited by this.   I have a couple transcriptions to do (real work) and then I'm going to read it.  I gave up on the monroe tapes...  It just didn't do it if or me.

Jenn

[Lionheart]

 

I gave up on the Monroe tapes...  It just didn't do it if or me.

I would give it some more time, you started to do the tapes approximately Sept 8th, that's just over a month ago. Some people take years before they learn to project. I listened to Monroe's tapes recently and thought they were very well done, but I can see that daily repetition is needed for success. I listened to DR. Steve G. Jones's tapes for 3 months every day. Now I can project with ease, I don't do it by his technique of actually "leaving the body" ,but his entire foundation laid the groundwork for my success.

[light487]

What you may want to do is take a break from the monroe tapes, just for one or two days a week. I find that when I listen to the same stuff over and over it's so much that it becomes boring but that it appears to become less effective and less profound. So what I do is I will listen to Xanth's 4Hz binaural beat thing a couple of days and then go back to the Monroe stuff.

Another good trick is to use one of Monroe's tapes as an entree` to your real attempt. Play one of the early tapes, like tape 2 or 3.. I forget which one is the Resonant Balancing one but that one where you remove your fears and all that.. do that tape, then after it is finished, get up.. have a glass of water or whatever.. take 15mins break.. go to the toilet and all that stuff..

After that small break, go back and put a binaural beat tape in and use it to practise "noticing" and do a good 30 to 60 mins of this as an "attempt" to OoBE/AP..

[bluremi]

If you decide to follow the advice in the SOBT ebook, you should not attempt to do any "noticing" or "meditating" or Monroe tapes or binaural beats sessions or anything like that. Just try the indirect techniques 3-4 times a week, not even every day.

The reason behind this is that it takes some considerable motivation (conscious and subconscious) to be able to perform these actions reliably upon waking, and if you are trying it every day, or even spending time with other approaches in the evening, you are spreading yourself rather thin and it becomes very difficult to place the correct motivational emphasis on waking up without movement and trying the techniques.

Kind of like going to work every day and telling yourself "today I'm going to work extra hard!" Just not possible...

[Xanth]

You COULD try not trying as much... I don't see much point in not trying.

OR you could try to figure out the root of the problem in why you're not being successful.