A question for the veterans

[one_each]

That was a big AHA! moment for me as well.  And just for the record, I don't use resonant tuning either.  The energy seems to build up on its own well enough that I do project.  I just need to get my awareness under control.

Each day I get better at it, but I'm not quite there yet.  I project in and out of my meditation several times each night and a few more times before I get out of bed in the morning.  It would be frustrating except that I'm enjoying the journey too much.

[Beth]

Hey All,

In my 10+ years of OBE/AP I have never used any recorded audio or artificial visual stimulation.  I wonder what it would be like if I did?  Would the results be the same?  Or does the external stimuli actually alter the experiences?  hhmmmm.... maybe one day I shall try it and see!

Peace,
Beth

[Steve 2B]

Stookie,

Sure, will do I was supposed to get them on Monday, as yet they've not turned up(Now wednesday morning) <sigh>. I phoned the company up yesterday, said they'd most likely arrive today...

mactombs,
               WTG!! I'm glad to hear you're getting results from the cd's, sounds like they will be of definate help<keeping fingers crossed>

The last couple of days for me have been pretty non-productive, tho the night before last I woke up at what must have been about 5.30am, as my sinuses were hurting for some stupid reason. I then started having a conversation with myself <sounds pretty weird> about how to get a better focus10 and how better to shift my perception. At that time in the morning I felt really relaxed, was getting all kinds of colours and hypnogogic images, even a few of those textures I'd been hearing about before people wizz of to the Fz. I was quite suprised at how lucid I was, quite capable of having a coherent  conversation. I was trying to shift my focus, every time I tried I found all I was managing to do was starting to power up the brain. I remember thinking no,no,no don't power/wake up the brain, so I got the feeling that prompting a shift must be done another way. So I just lay there, looking beyond the pretty colours/ images and fell asleep again....Doh!  
Since my wife is away for the next few days I'll be able to practice with the cd's in the evening, set the alarm for about 5am, try to make the shift from here also.

Beth,
You're so lucky to be able to do this 'au-natural', I've never once had a spontaneous/conscious OBE. I wonder if learning this kind of thing is part of my development plan? Hmmmm...I'd like to think so!

Cheers all,

Steve

[Beth]

Steve2B,

LOL...yes, I guess you can say that I am lucky, but believe me when I say that when it first started happening to me, I was totally shocked, amazed, and very overwhelmed!  I did not know anyone with whom I could discuss it with and for a long time I was totally on my on!!  I was never afraid, however, for I somehow knew that this was a blessing in my life, but ... you are also lucky that you have a forum such as the AP to seek information and guidance!!  

So, I guess we are both lucky in our own way!!  If you haven't projected yet, just relax, concentrate on simple visualization and meditation (for mastering this can take a while) and probably when you least expect it, you too will be amazed!!

Peace,
Beth

[Steve 2B]

Beth,

Ahhh yes, you're so very right there I feel very fortunate and humbled to be able to get guidance from all the wonderfull people here. Already it's taken years off having to studying the mystical texts, to find out how to access other levels/focuses of reality, for that I'm very, very gratefull It's just great to be able to talk about these things, that in general western society still finds a bit...odd. LoL

Oh..My cd's have just turned up! Woot!

Thanks Beth

Steve

[Stookie]

I love the resonant tuning. When I started I had never done any chanting or humming before and was like "I'm not doing that. That's just weird. I'll sit still through that part." But the first time I did the CD, I tried it because the manual says to at least try all the exercises once. Now I've found that when I first start to feel any vibrations, it's during the tuning. I do it 90% of the time. The sensations I get from it are very relaxing and buzzy. Then I increase the vibes with the REBAL exercise, and by the time I get to Focus 10 (if I get to 10) the vibes move on their own.

[Steve 2B]

Well then...

Last night I had my first play with the Wave1 cd's, proved to be quite a revelation about what the Monroe focus levels (3 and 10) feels like, compared to my efforts so far without them.
I got time only to play through the first disk, went through the exercises/ introductions to focus 3 and focus 10, made the effort not to try to 'do' anything as such as RM says on the disk just to let things happen, see where it goes. Focus 3 is pretty much what had suspected it to be, found it to be a relaxing introspective state to be in. I did notice that the hypnogogic images kept popping up and there these bands/waves of light were rippling along to the sound of the hemi-sync tones. It was quite tricky to stop my eyes from wanting to look at specifics and just take in all that was happening.

I've got to agree with Stookie I just love doing the resonant tuning exercise also. Since I was by myself I could hum away, didn't matter at all. I thought "Hmmm this is a bit of a strange thing to do, but what the heck, go with it"

Focus10 on the other hand was, I must admit was different to what I had previously thought it to be. Although I've certainly managed to achieve a very similar states of mind when practicing the noticing exercise and WHY, but more than anything else it reminds me of the what had happened the other night, when I woke up early, felt deeply,deeply relaxed.
On the cd, the bit where he says to relax the scalp and let the relaxation seep through into the brain and relax the brain...Oooooooooh that was just amazing, could feel the brain powering down and got this really profound sense of the body being asleep.

Can't wait for the next session now!

Very, very impressed! Really glad I got them

ATB

Steve

[Stookie]

Focus10 on the other hand was, I must admit was different to what I had previously thought it to be. Although I've certainly managed to achieve a very similar states of mind when practicing the noticing exercise and WHY, but more than anything else it reminds me of the what had happened the other night, when I woke up early, felt deeply,deeply relaxed.

Lately when doing the CD's I've been reaching this strange state where it's like a part of my brain shuts off. However it only lasts for a short while. The other night I was in hypnogogic state hearing some strange conversation, and suddenly I can't remember anything. I don't know what it was I was doing, or what I'm supposed to be doing, or even have a clue I'm doing OBE exercises. I probably couldn't have come up with my own name. Sometimes I forget what time of day it is, like think I have to get up for work even though it's late at night. It passes, but it's like a strange amnesia state.

[greatoutdoors]

Part of this may be a stupid question but I'm asking anyway!  

First, how much do those Wave1 CD's cost? And second (here goes), are they the kind of CD's you can play on a regular CD player or do you have to use them through your computer? The reason I ask is that I downloaded a BWG once, then copied it onto a CD to take home. But unless I put it in the computer and played it there, I got distorted sound that was nothing like the original.

There's no place near my computer to do a meditation session.

[Stookie]

I bought a Rio portable CD player that plays MP3's & WMA's for about $60, then I ripped the CD's to WMA format and burned on 1 disc.  Much easier that way (if you want to invest in the player. I use mine all the time).

[Steve 2B]

Yup I also us a portable, tho I ditched the standard headphones a.s.a.p. I don't like the phones, which rest on the outer parts of the ears, spent the extra money and got a pair of the sony 'ear-plug' type. I gotta admit I somewhat baulked at the price of them but they've certainly paid me back in terms of sound quality + the other bonus is that they don't hurt my ears if I lay on my side for extended periods.

I know this might sound like a stupid question, but is there a point to making the REBAL ballon? I mean it's kinda fun to do the exercise, feel the movement of energy and all that, but what gives?

I repeated the first two exercises + the first on cd2, after the session ended was still getting some images coming though, for some reason I was watching this guy, who was sitting on a sofa. He looked like he was watching his tv, got up and changed channels, or something and went and sat back down again. The funny thing was I was watching him from the prespective of looking out from the tv screen... The image lasted about 10-15 seconds, so does this mean there really are people watching us from the tv!?  AHHHHHHHH!!

ATB

Steve

[mactombs]

I don't know if there is a point to the REBAL besides learning to recognize and manipulate that sort of energy. I've gotten cranky with all the exercises and have taken a break from them to just try relaxing again.

Ever notice when something is new, you almost get there, but just not quite - then the second time around, it doesn't work as well because its novelty has worn off and your mind wanders more?

Man, if that energy conversion box worked better, maybe I wouldn't have so much stray thinking ... Anybody find the energy conversion box works for them? It worked for me the first time, but now ...

Sometimes I wonder if I have a psychological issue where I intentionally don't allow myself to succeed - like I'm afraid of the change. I've spent so long trying it's like that's what my psyche has accepted as the norm and doesn't want to move on.

I think the only thing that keeps us from projecting/phasing at will is us. We set those limitations on ourselves. I think we're afraid of succeeding, our Ego doesn't know how to integrate that into our world view. Or maybe we're not afraid of succeeding, but rather just strongly believe mastering this should be difficult.

[Stookie]

...so does this mean there really are people watching us from the tv!? AHHHHHHHH!!

Or people are constantly watching us on TV! Maybe Earth is just a TV show.

Anyways, I think that the REBAL is an exercise to prove to yourself that YOU are in control of your energy and the flow of it (and the perception of it). Even though Frank says energy work isn't needed, it seems that that's what Monroe has in mind. To make your energy gradually resonate at a higher vibrational level. As you do these exercises over time, your vibrations slowly start to raise naturally.

I think that the energy conversion box has worked for me over time. After putting the things that bother me into it twice a day over a long period, it starts to work on my subconscious to where those things aren't as bothersome or worrisome. I know that many aspects of my outer life have been changing because I'm losing certain fears.

Sometimes I wonder if I have a psychological issue where I intentionally don't allow myself to succeed - like I'm afraid of the change. I've spent so long trying it's like that's what my psyche has accepted as the norm and doesn't want to move on.

mactombs - Maybe you can try putting this into some sort of mental image that you can put in the energy conversion box. I think the name is what it seems: To Convert negative Energy into positive.

[Steve 2B]

mactombs,

Ever notice when something is new, you almost get there, but just not quite - then the second time around, it doesn't work as well because its novelty has worn off and your mind wanders more?

I've been noticing this effect in the last few sessions, think it has been to my own mental laziness, more than anything. The other thing has been observing the time to get the receptors in the eyes to power down has been getting longer and longer, to the point where RM has almost gotten to the point where he'll start counting back down to take you back to c1. I'm still laying there, going" Hang on Rob! I've only just managed to got here!" LoL. I think maybe I need to be more pro-active in the relaxation stage. What I've found helps is repeating the "Relax...Let go...Sleep" in a RM-esque voice to any stubborn part of the body. The funny thing is that the body as such is really easy to deal with, but as per the previous threads on getting the the fore-head and eyes to relax and switch off is definitely more tricky for me.  

Man, if that energy conversion box worked better, maybe I wouldn't have so much stray thinking ... Anybody find the energy conversion box works for them? It worked for me the first time, but now ...

I know I've only been working with the cd's for a week, or so now, but I find the ECB great, if anything I keep finding new  things to put in it..LoL
I suppose I just made the affirmation/rule that what goes in the box...Stays in the box, until after the exercise.

I agree with what you say about setting these limitations, why they're there I'm not really sure? Social conditioning maybe? You know..."This is the only real world", and all that....I guess it just takes time to break these things down.

Speaking of which, the other morning I got woken up by a neighbor, after he's driven off in his car I was getting back into going back to sleep, but this this time I was particularly aware of all the swirly colours I normally see in my practice sessions. I was looking at an image of what I could only describe as a stick drawing of a plant. The image didn't fade as usual, just stayed there, so I thought hmmm this is kind of interesting, carried on looking at it and after a few moments it changed into a real one, all of a sudden I was standing in a garden, or maybe a forest clearing, surrounded by all this lush foliage. At this point I was a bit freaked as it was full on 3d and crystal clear and got zapped back to the bed. I'm not sure what it was that freaked me out...The fact I'd managed to go somewhere, or the sensation of my consciousness shifting. The only way I can describe the sensation is kind of like the feeling you get when someone drags their finger-nails down a chalk board. I guess I'll get more comfortable with it, the more I manage to do it.

Stookie,
           That's a bit of a worry..LoL There I was thinking we had privacy in your own home, only to find we're in an Astral version of the 'Truman' show! ROFL

Tom,

 Ahh I see what your saying there, in that case I'll be putting the balloon stuff to one side, for the time being, consentrate on the images and getting a more stable focus 10.

Cheers,

Steve


[/quote]

[Stookie]

..all of a sudden I was standing in a garden, or maybe a forest clearing, surrounded by all this lush foliage. At this point I was a bit freaked as it was full on 3d and crystal clear and got zapped back to the bed

This happens to me more and more as I do the CD's. I mostly get zapped back because my eyes try to look at it. But little by little I can hold onto it longer. It seems like a different kind of "looking" that you have to get used to. But they always amaze me in how real they are.

[mactombs]

I've been doing really well on the Focus 10 CDs with falling asleep. Right after the 10-stage relaxation on the 2nd CD I've been falling asleep consistently. Sometimes I'll wake up right when RM says "One" to end the session.

It's amazing how much more easily my mind can fall asleep than my body ... in fact, I think I have good reason to believe that often my body never falls asleep. It's kicking all night, scratching, moving around. It's automated. Sometimes someone will walk in and I'll sit up and talk to them, and then lie back down and come awake wondering what I just said.

I'm trying to figure out a way to stay aware, to keep from getting mesmerized by those thousands of voices that start talking about something that then will become a dream.

At the same time, I believe Focus 10 is a state independent of the physical body being totally asleep (which kind of contradicts the whole description of Focus 10). I've experienced it before, it's more of a feeling in the brain. I just need to become more familiar with it ...

[Steve 2B]

Stookie,

This happens to me more and more as I do the CD's. I mostly get zapped back because my eyes try to look at it. But little by little I can hold onto it longer. It seems like a different kind of "looking" that you have to get used to. But they always amaze me in how real they are.

Exactly what I've been thinking too. For ages now I've been trying to figure out what Frank meant exactly(In his earlier posts), when he'd say about how the astral would come in to view and he step into the scene.. What with the experience I had the other morning and a similar instance (After a practice session), I think the penny is beginning to drop a bit. Next time this happens I'm going to have to try to stay passive, not go "OH MY GOODNESS!!", kick myself out of the experience...
The really stupid things is if I could do it several times in succession, so getting used to the sensation, then I suspect I wouldn't baulk just after managing to get there...<sigh>

Last night I had a go a the free-flow thingy, on cd3?
Managed to get to focus10 ok, tho I completely forgot the affirmation/declaration..LoL
As for the early morning session I woke up as I needed the bathroom, but rather than getting up I was trying to do a practice...But the body was being fairly instant, saying " No....You need the bathroom!", so it ended up being a bit of a tug-of-war instead

mactombs,

It's amazing how much more easily my mind can fall asleep than my body ... in fact, I think I have good reason to believe that often my body never falls asleep. It's kicking all night, scratching, moving around. It's automated. Sometimes someone will walk in and I'll sit up and talk to them, and then lie back down and come awake wondering what I just said.

LoL...My wife's a great one for that. She'll be asleep in bed, all of a sudden she'll sit up and start talking to me, sometimes in a language I haven't heard before (The weird thing is that it has a proper form and syntax), then she'll lie down again and won't remember any of it. Hours of fun..LoL

I've been doing really well on the Focus 10 CDs with falling asleep. Right after the 10-stage relaxation on the 2nd CD I've been falling asleep consistently. Sometimes I'll wake up right when RM says "One" to end the session.

Wow...That's what you'd call 'really' relaxed! Not very helpful tho, huh? I wonder maybe if you could modify the session somehow to help you stay lucid? Like maybe bounce an imaginary ball, or something as Frank was saying when doing a rundown? Do you just listen to the cd, or do you do the rundown thing as in wave1 guide? Sorry for asking the obvious

Cheers,

Steve

[mactombs]

Wow...That's what you'd call 'really' relaxed! Not very helpful tho, huh? I wonder maybe if you could modify the session somehow to help you stay lucid? Like maybe bounce an imaginary ball, or something as Frank was saying when doing a rundown? Do you just listen to the cd, or do you do the rundown thing as in wave1 guide? Sorry for asking the obvious  

I just listen to the CD. The rundowns tend to make me cranky trying to maintain them, or they're too simple and I get bored. I don't know if there is a happy medium there. Something really exciting and novel, or I won't stand a chance. I'll sometimes do a rundown and be falling asleep unaware that I've even strayed.

So, I don't like rundowns much right now. I try to keep myself from becoming frustrated and allow myself to just relax. I try to stay aware, try to listen intently, but I either can't relax enough or relax too much.

Focus 10 is such a highwire act.

[Steve 2B]

mactombs,

The rundowns tend to make me cranky trying to maintain them, or they're too simple and I get bored.

Yeah I know what you mean there, is one of the reasons why I'd been spending so much time/ effort with the noticing exercise. I've found that just letting the images come to me a much better process, rather than going chasing them in a rundown.
 I've been trying the other cd's over the w/e, have to say that apart from the freeflow track on cd3  the others I've not found to be much use at all. I'm still debating whether to go an buy the wave 2 cd, just for the introduction to focus 12...Dunno....yet.
Since I've got a few days to myself I'm going to have a play with a BWgen track I'd been using, using the focus 10 cd as a primer, see what that does. I know ultimately it's down to my own mental state, not what's on the disk, but I still find the overall process of getting to the state, where the hypnogogia is stable is just too flaky. Though I'm loath to say it I think I need to start to keep a log of what I've tried each session and note what works and what doesn't.

Hope you had a good w/e

ATB

Steve

[RooJ]

I just wanted to share a tutorial i found:

http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12621

Its a tutorial on how to achieve wake initiated lucid dreams (WILD's), which is F2 in the phasing model. It's an interesting read and I found it answered a few questions i had.

>RooJ

[Steve 2B]

RooJ,

Thanks for that Cool website, that one! I've booked marked it, will get reading asap

Cheers,

Steve

[Stookie]

So, I don't like rundowns much right now. I try to keep myself from becoming frustrated and allow myself to just relax. I try to stay aware, try to listen intently, but I either can't relax enough or relax too much.

Focus 10 is such a highwire act.

I know what you mean. Lately I've been trying to assess my level of concentration before I lay down. If I'm tired but feel mentally focused, I do my rundown. Sometimes I can picture and feel it perfectly. On days that I'm not so focused, I tend to stick with "noticing" or just what's on the discs. Otherwise I'll just fall asleep. I find that there is no "one thing" that works for me. It totally depends on my mood and concentration level.