I would like to ask some advice regarding the diferent methods used to maintain awareness while going into sleep state in F10/F12.
Basicaly, when I am doing the "mind awake/body asleep" exercise, I let myself go into the sleep state. Soon thouhghts and visual images(hipnagogic images) start to appear. When this happens I rapidly loose my awareness, but somehow I automaticaly wake up after a few secons. A repeat this many times during the exercise always returning to complete wakefullness after I loose my awareness in the begining of hipnagogic state. Therefore I do not manage to go deeper into sleep state, because I wake up completely many times. I also have problems with maintaining some degree of awareness when entering into the hipnagogic state.
Is it possibe that with more practice I will be able to stay longer in the hipnagogic state while maintaining some degree of awareness? I used to focus on something( blacness in front of me) to be able to stay conscious during the hipnagogic state. However, this activity prevented me from entering into sleep state. In the first 20 min of the exercise I experienced hipnagogic images for 2-3 times for a few seconds, but after that none (I think because the natural urge to fall asleep disappeared) and the exercise continued as a regular meditation. Therefore, I decided not to focus on anything in particular and simply let myself go into sleep state while paying attention not to fall asleep completely and trying to passively observe the thoughts and visual images in the hipnagogic state.
Can I learn to stay conscious during the hipnagogic state in this way, without using any meditative technique as an aid, which would help me maintain my awareness?
I have nearly the same problem. Getting into hypnagogic state, getting aware of that fact and
waking up completly...this game repeats itself until i just give up and fall asleep.
Pan
You sound right on. I've had to do it over and over with no results to get to that single one. The combination of awareness and physical relaxation and room-ambiance and who-knows-what-else is complicated.
I think the key in this case is "passive awareness". You need to have something to hold a small piece of your awareness such as "noticing", or breathing, or a run-down. You need a mild curiosity about something without it grabbing your full attention. It's a tough balancing act. Just sitting and waiting probably won't work - you need something to keep your mind passively-aware. For me, the magic spot is when things get fuzzy, hypnogogic, and hard to hold on to and I click in and out as though I'm falling asleep, maybe a brief full "click-out", and then a clear hypnogogic image that I (hopefully) become immersed in. For some, it might be vibes instead of an image.
5 minutes of concentration exercises a day does awesome things for visualization and holding awareness. Pick something simple and try to hold that one thing or thought for 5 minutes, when your mind slips into something else, come back to the exercise. After a while you should be able to do the whole 5 minutes and you'll start to notice a difference in your meditations. I'll admit, it's a boring exercise, but well worth the 5 daily minutes of discipline.
Thanks for that tip, ill try it right away! :)
gil-galad,
I think Stookie's advice is right on target for a direct, conscious state exit. I think it applies to almost any state or condition you may find yourself in, when the "opportunity" presents itself. But like he said, it's a delicate balance between "passive" and "active". Too passive, you fall asleep; too active, you wake up.
Personally, I've yet to project from a totally conscious, just meditating kind of state. My conscious mind just would not give up control; or if it did, I simply fell asleep. So, I looked for a kind of back door method. What I have found some success with was the WakeBackToBed method (WBTB).
WBTB means that you follow your normal sleep pattern but interrupt it. Say you normally go to bed at 11pm and wake up at 7am. With WBTB, you set your alarm for 3 or 4am. Now, you can do one or two things: you can simply roll over and head back to sleep while trying to retain some conscious awareness and apply some exit techniques; or, you can get up and stay awake for 10 to 30 minutes and then return to bed for a meditative attempt. Different time periods have different effects, and no doubt, will work with varying success for different people.
Sometimes, I can flip off the alarm, roll over and instantly feel the vibrations kicking in, and have an easy RTZ/etheric exit. Sometimes it goes nowhere.
Other times, I can get up and putter around for 15 minutes, return to bed and get vibrations and a very lucid OBE.
Then again, sometimes I get nothing, no matter what I try.
One time, I propped up my pillows so that I was almost sitting up in bed, relaxed...and the next thing I knew, my body was snoring and asleep...while my mind was totally awake. I saw hypnogogics, the mind screen, the 3D blackness. That was the first time I truly understood Monroe's description of Mind Awake/Body Asleep...and I undertook an interesting set of astral phasings (and experienced the difference between phasing and traditional projection!)
For me, the key seems to be that, after several hours of sleep, my physical body has rested enough so that it doesn't just drag my consciousness down into oblivion, but also that my mind is not so active that an OBE is impossible.
Oh yeah, rundowns. Stookie makes a great point in that an active, moving visual is key to initiating an exit, at least in some instances. You really have to discover this for yourself. When you enter that meditative, pre-exit stage, keep things moving along in some visual manner. Selski offered the trampoline visual; try a rollercoaster, or jogging through the woods... I somehow ended up sledding on snow (backwards!) down some hills, first by my own visualisation, then it took on a life of its own---the next thing I knew I was dumped on my head, unceremoniously, onto a snowy road... and it felt totally real! I was there!
Anyway, that's what currently is working for me. Maybe it serves to help re-wire or re-program my circuitry so that I can one day OBE at-will as Stookie describes. Onward and (hopefully) upward!
Hope this helps a little, EV.
Thanks for the advices.
I think I'll choose some visual image to hold onto in order to keep myself conscious when entering the hipnagogic state. I have already tried to imagine "water drops falling into a pool" but I stopped it after a while.
Personally, I take advantage of the 'waking up' part because I can telepathically ask a question and get a very detailed answer in those two seconds asleep. Although I guess it's not practical for projection.
Keeping awareness is tricky. I had to learn how the sleeping mind thinks, and adjust to it, instead of forcing my sleeping mind into a waking awareness. For example I tried repeating words and images in my mind while falling asleep, but words and images are not well-understood by the sleeping mind.
What worked was keeping my thoughts very subtle. When I have a question I want answered telepathically, I focus on the 'intent' of that question. It's hard to explain. The 'intent' is what goes through your mind before you turn a thought into words. That intent can carry over into the sleep state when complete words and images can't
Quote from: Stookie on May 12, 2009, 11:41:02
5 minutes of concentration exercises a day does awesome things for visualization and holding awareness. Pick something simple and try to hold that one thing or thought for 5 minutes, when your mind slips into something else, come back to the exercise. After a while you should be able to do the whole 5 minutes and you'll start to notice a difference in your meditations. I'll admit, it's a boring exercise, but well worth the 5 daily minutes of discipline.
Excellent tip Stookie, thanks, I'll try to find something to concentrate on even though I have reached the F10 quite often, I have never been able to have hypnagogic visions. that's a bit frustrating !
When I am falling asleep, I usualy experience images and thoughts. I try to maintain my awareness by focusing on these hipnogogic images and passively observing them. If I try to focus on something else, this act prevents me from going deeper into the hipnogogic state and soon I wake up completely. Therefore, the only way I can stay in the hipnogogic state is when I am focusing/passively observing the hipnagogic images only and not something else ( breathing, earhiss,...)
Is it possible that, with practice, I will be able to go deeper into the sleep state/F12 while using the hipnogogic images to hold my attention?
Yes, and that's the tricky balance point, as hypnogogic images come immediately before either sleep or MABA or whatever focus level. It serves as a good sign-post that you're close. If you can passively observe them, go for it - it might be your method. It's not easy for everyone.
Thank God i found a topic related to F10/F12.I got the same problem.
But I'm solving it.I love Afternoon naps and then i can have more awareness than nights.
I think that if you "print" in your consciousness that you are desperate to have an AP you can succeed inducing an AP.
First time when I projected i struggled to get out of the hypnotic images because i was scared of them just by waking up but i got out with my astral body.
Quote from: gil-galad on May 13, 2009, 13:44:54
Thanks for the advices.
I think I'll choose some visual image to hold onto in order to keep myself conscious when entering the hipnagogic state. I have already tried to imagine "water drops falling into a pool" but I stopped it after a while.
When you're looking for an image to use when trying to hold your awareness something that always helps me is to picture myself floating on light, completely weightless, similar feeling to laying down on a elevator thats moving downward. That way i get a visualization and intensify any vibrations as well
I'm kinda a beginner to all this experience, but i've had these similar experiences in the past before i read into it, and never explored it thoroughly, but now i can't even consciencly trigger it. THX Stookie, i'll try the passiveness, i think that'll work. I just have trouble even getting to hypnagocic state, but that should help. I'll nap and do the morning trigger, try to slip into it.
I think this to be a common problem, because this is exactly what happens to me as well. I believe it all just to be a practice you must implement over and over to really figure out what's going on and become familiar with the process. I think it's a personal thing that someone just has to experience and when you experience it enough, you will soon be able to master it!
..or so I hope!
I have the same problem staying awake in hypnagogics. But lets say i overcome it what should happen next?