I had a question in mind...

[Greytraveller]

You are right. Most people do try too hard. More people project unconsciously from sleep or normal dreams than consciously project. Conscious projection can be done. It is just harder than unconscious projection.
The worst thing to do is to strain and exert phyiscal force while trying to project. That practically guarantees failure.
It is better to keep a strong desire in mind. That unconscious desire to project will eventually be manifested into a projection.

[Nick]

Parmenion,

For months I worked at the rope with minimal success. In retrospect, I believe perhaps I was trying too hard as you've indicated.

Recently, Ive modified my astral program to the astral phasing method. That's something I had never heard about until I began reading all of Frank's posts here at this forum. So far I have had some rather promising results.

I do agree that desire and will are of paramount importance, as is persistence. Like you, I appreciate all of the good advice here.

Very best,

[Parmenion]

I've been making progress now by going back to the basics. I have an intense desire to be able to willfully project and have set a goal to be able to do so at least once a week. Untill recently I never realised the power of goalsetting.

What I'm doing recently is spending 1-3 mins on relaxation using self hypnosis. Then I simply listen to my breathing and wait for my body to fall asleep. It is definately a balancing act as Frank describes but I'm getting more and more used to it. I'm now at the stage where I get into trance and experience 3d blackness. Either that or I feel pressure on my etheric body, as it tries to separate. Always one or the other though, never both.

The experience of the 3D blackness leads me to believe I should make efforts towards phasing. From what I can gather it is a much more reliable way of experiencing the astral. I do still desire to experience the real time zone but it makes sense to learn the better way of doing things from the start also, rather than taking the long route, like Robert Monroe.

There is a diamond mine of phasing gems on this website which I must begin to compile for myself, with much appreciation to Frank , Ginny et al.

Nick, how is your progress with phasing now? Any pointers you've experienced yourself that have so far gone unmentioned?

Take care,

Dave

[Nick]

Hi Parmenion,

As I am but a student in all this, I'll share what I can. First, I worked with the traditional OBE, and the methods in Astral Dynamics. That is a great book and it brought me to what seemed very close to a real time projection. During those times (and even now), I would relax relatively easily, then feel the energy body loosening, floating sensations, and mild tingling vibrations. However, I believe I never had an actual full conscious separation (at least none I can remember).

So, after months of what I have described above, I begain asking questions here at the Pulse. Then after trading posts with Frank and reading a number of the posts and stickies regarding astral phasing ( a phrase I had never heard of until reading it here), I decided to modify my astral program to that of Astral Phasing.

At present, this is what I can tell you. I will get to Focus 10 the mind awake/body asleep state. Then, move to Focus 12 where I begin to see swirling colors and patterns. Sometimes, I'll hear odd noises like a pops or bangs. Once I heard a god awful loud noise which brought me all the way to C-1. I then got up to check. Nothing was disturbed. My wife was asleep, and the 3 cats had not even moved. So then I knew it had to have been a nonphysical sound.

Beyond the above states, I have now only occasionally begun to move to Focus 21. Here, there is a sense of forward movement that I have experienced through, as it has been called, 3d blackness. Also, it is here where I have noticed that scenes such as a city or some other setting will seem to assemble before me. Then, if I can try and maintain that detached awareness and not get too excited, I will move to the scene.

It is here where I am presently at in my astral sessions. I've reread Frank's invaluable tips and realize I need to work on maintaining a neutral passive awareness. As you said, goalsetting is important. The thing for me now is to try to avoid getting too excited. Sometimes, I find myself thinking, "oh wow look at that beautiful shining city", or some such thing and then I get zapped out of it.

So that's where I'm at now. There are a few other observations I'd like to share. First, I would still like to experience a traditional obe at some point. After reading so much about the obe in books and here at the Astral Pulse, it's hard to not want to experience it firsthand. On the other hand, the astral phasing has brought me to where I am sensing some awareness of nonphysical realities that I previously had not realized.

In closing, what I will most likely do is continue with astral phasing, then at some point give the traditional obe a go again so as to satisfy my need to have that particular experience.

Sorry for the long post but I need to add something else. I had been using the Wave 1 (first cd) cds as a sort of mental primer. However, I no longer do that. I found that (with me at least) whenever Robert Monroe's voice came back after a while of not being there, I would literally jump. I now sometimes get the ball rolling so to speak with a little binaural cd called Deep Meditation by the people at Brain Sync. The cd only cost $14.95 (USD) too. Their website is at http://www.brainsync.com/default.asp

I said "sometimes" above because I don't always use the cd. Other times, I just settle in without it, and relax and get to F10 that way.When I do listen to the cd, I let it help bring me to Focus 10, then move off on my own. It seems to do a very nice job of taking me to that mind awake/body asleep state. This may be giving me the same effect as the hypnosis and relaxation are doing for you. Either way, once at that Focus 10 state, I go on without the cd.



Very best,

[Parmenion]

Thanks for the input Nick!

I have many questions but will of course, refrain from asking untill I have sorted through all the posts regarding phasing.

I'm not too fond of the terms Monroe uses ie: F12, C1 etc etc. It just feels too rigid for me, but I can appreciate the advantage of naming the different stages. They do make comparing experiences that much easier so I will make an effort to get to grips with them.

I have to agree with you about not getting too excited. That's ruined many an attempt for me but, as with all things, we get better with practise.

With regard to traditional OBE. Do you practise phasing at night before you go to sleep? If not, this could be a time for you to work for OBE. I find that so long as I'm not too tired, I have no problems practising at this time.

Im not alltogether sure about using bineural sounds to aid in the process. I can see the advantages and have used BWGen from time to time, but i somehow keep thinking I'm creating a crutch by using the music to help in projection.

Thanks again for sharing, I've got a lotta readin' to do!


Greytraveller ~

My apologies, I thought I'd replied allready []
Its true that trying too hard can result in tensing the physicall body. Like the people who concentrate with their eyebrows[]
I believe that will and desire are paramount. To put it crudely, your thoughts create your reality.

Take care,

Dave

[Nick]

Hi Dave,

Usually, I will practice astral phasing in the late afternoon, after I get home from work. This is the best time because I am at work all day and I get home several hours before my wife does.

On the weekends, I usually have more free time so I plan on trying again for the "traditional" obe. BTW, did you see Robert Bruce's recent post in the Astral Chat section?

http://www.astraldynamics.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5168

I agree with you regarding the CD possibly becoming a crutch. Used occasionally though, to start the process, it may be helpful for some.

Very best,

[Parmenion]

Hi Nick,

Yes Ive seen that thread allright. The initiall success rates are very impressive indeed. I may consider trying out one of the cd's in the near future. I have no doubt that the cd's can be helpfull in assisting projection. I guess it's just a personall hangup.

Take care,

Dave

[Nick]

Hi Dave,

By way of follow-up to some of what I wrote above, I have been re-reading Robert Monroe's Journeys Out of the Body. I had read this in the late 1970's and had forgotten what a great book it is.

Monroe emphasizes the early morning hours as the optimum time to AP/OBE. This has been an especially difficult time for me because I work as a trial lawyer representing indigent folk in criminal cases. I mention my profession only because as you must imagine, I need to be exceptionally wide awake when in Court. I had felt that waking up after a few sleep cycles might put a dent in my overall wakefulness later in the day. However, now I am determined to at least give it a try for a while starting this weekend.

The afternoon sessions, while somewhat productive, are still afternoon sessions. I believe from what I've read not in just Monroe, but also in The Projection of the Astral Body by Muldoon & Carrington, as well as other books, that the early morning hours is the best bet.

Just thought I'd share that with you. I hope your astral studies are progressing well. Hope to hear about how you are coming along when you get a chance.

Very best,

[Parmenion]

Hi Nick,

Tomorrow is the start of a new week and a change of attitude on my behalf towards AP. You are absolutely correct about the morning sessions. I allready have about an hours training to do each morning which was putting me off the idea of trying to project in the mornings. Over the past couple of weeks I have been letting things get on top of me which meant I was not even doing my morning excersises so I had to take a step back and re-focus. Now with renewed determination I will make every effort to succeed in projection, which means trying in the morning times aswell as at night.

Please do keep me posted on how your morning sessions work out for you and in return I shall do the same.[]

Take care and wishing you success,

Dave

[Frank]

From reading the posts a few pointers came to mind. First and foremost, projection is a mental excercise. Therefore, your thoughts are very important. It is your thoughts which propel you. Whether it be promoting the unfolding of an Astral experience, or zapping you back to Physical.

As Nick has pointed out, the moment he gets too excited about some scene or other he gets zapped out of it. Which is ever so common and still happens to me fairly regularly; as I am the kind of character who likes to continually push the bounderies so I'm coming across new situations fairly regularly.

With practice, however, it is possible to shut-down detrimental feelings so your awareness of the situation becomes dulled; as opposed to being immediately zapped back to Physical; then, after half a minute or so, you can become "open" again to whatever it is. Doing this enables your protective sense of awareness to gain a degree of familiarity with the situation to the point where it considers it to be "normal". At which point you can move on.

Another way in which having the right kinds of thoughts can help you is in initiating the process. If I may suggest for you to re-read Ginny's posts and look at where she talks about placing the intent to be some place (as well as becoming "open" and "closed" to situations). For example, in her latest post she starts out by, "I focused in on it--having already decided that I wanted to go to a place in F27 I had never been before."

The key word in that quote is "already". Note, she set-out with a distinct intent to do some particular thing... this is ever so important. Plus, any kind of "doubt" puts a MAJOR spoke in the works. Bruce Moen is always making this point. He's always saying the biggest problem people tend to have is believing in what they are doing.

It is an unfortunate rule of non-physical realms that your ability to perceive is directly proportional to your willingness to believe. This causes two major problems:

1) If you doubt, then basically what you are saying is you have a reluctance to believe. Which means your ability to percieve will be restricted to the same extent by which you doubt. This, unfortunately, tends to have the effect of reinforcing the original doubt; so you doubt more; which means your ability to perceive is reduced yet further. Which further reinforces the original doubt... and so the downward spiral continues.

2) A person who avidly believes something beyond doubt, needs to be very careful about what it is they are believing in. Because the more you believe something, the more able you are to perceive it. Which tends to have the effect of reinforcing the original belief... and so you perceive it more. People locked in this kind of loop get to the stage where their beliefs have been self-reinforced to such an extent they can percieve no other reality, or points of view, etc.  

It is precisely because of these pitfalls, the best state of mind to have is to remain neutral: especially emotionally. From this basis, or standpoint, what you then do is release an air of mild curiosity. Okay, I do very much realise that is a darned sight easier to say, than it is to actually do at the time. But all it takes is knowledge of the ground-rules coupled with daily practice.

Yours,
Frank

[Parmenion]

Hi Frank,

quote: Plus, any kind of "doubt" puts a MAJOR spoke in the works. Bruce Moen is always making this point. He's always saying the biggest problem people tend to have is believing in what they are doing.

Yes, it does seem to be the case that contrary to what we are conditioned into from an earlier age, believing is seeing

quote:It is precisely because of these pitfalls, the best state of mind to have is to remain neutral: especially emotionally. From this basis, or standpoint, what you then do is release an air of mild curiosity. Okay, I do very much realise that is a darned sight easier to say, than it is to actually do at the time. But all it takes is knowledge of the ground-rules coupled with daily practice.

This is exactly the frame of mind I always try to maintain. Granted it is, as you say, easier said than done but I am getting better at maintaining this mindset with practise.

I find your posts extremely helpfull and Ginny's extremely inspiring. Thank you for your response here. A question if I may? Would you recommend Bruce Moen's work? Does his work with afterlife retrievals and such draw any parrallels with astral phasing?

Best regards,

Dave

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by Parmenion

This is exactly the frame of mind I always try to maintain. Granted it is, as you say, easier said than done but I am getting better at maintaining this mindset with practise.

The key thing, I feel, is having knowledge of the ground-rules that apply. Knowing these ground-rules explains away a *lot* of the confusion people typically experience. And the great thing is, it all really does come good with practice.

quote:Would you recommend Bruce Moen's work? Does his work with afterlife retrievals and such draw any parrallels with astral phasing?

On the whole, yes. I haven't read any of his books but I'm sure others here have. So they will be best placed to give specific advice. I do know he does some great work with beginners and I'd especially recommend his Focussed Attention methodology for people first setting out.

Yours,
Frank

[clandestino]

hi Nick ! I think my astral phasing experiences are quite similar to yours, so far.

re. the traditional OBE (floating out)...I've never been able to initiate it conciously. On each occasion it has happened, I've been reading a new book on OBE, typically after my interest in the subject has waned for a few months.

All of a sudden, I'll wake to find my body "vibrating" and me floating out !
regards,
Mark

[Nick]

Hi Mark,

Yes, it's been an interesting ride AP/OBE wise. There was one experience recently where I had  gone a little too deep and must have dozed off. In what could have been a dream (not sure) I saw myself sitting in the very recliner chair that I was actually in.

Then, I thought there was an earthquake (I live in California and have experienced a number of them), and I remember hoping that my bookcase wouldn't tip over. After that I had the sense of rapid movement, thought I heard someone yelling, and then "woke up".
All quite strange.

It was different from those "floating sensations" I had experienced when I was trying for a traditional conscious exit projection.

Also, I agree that reading books on OBE/AP and visiting here keeps the desire in the forefront. That really does seem to have a positive effect. Take care.

Very best,

[Parmenion]

...but ive just been reading the stickies in this forum so my question has turned to a theory about projection. And from what I've read I dont think I'm the first to think this.

Basically the theory is this. The majority of us just try too hard. I've seen few posts of people decribing how this or that method really worked for them. Anyone I've personally talked to with experience in projecting has no method. They just lie down and project. It seems we are complicating a naturall process by over scrutinising(sp?) the hows and whys. Looking back on my own short history of projection attemps it seems that overall I got closer to projecting in the beggining, before I knew what I was doing.The one time I did project was not conscious, i became concious in the buffer zone known as RTZ. I know that we all hate to hear "just do it" but that really does seem to be the case.It would seem that people who project using certain methods are projecting in spite of these methods and not because of them.

One method worked well for me the first few times I used it ~ROPE. However, I believe it was the will and desire I poured into the efforts that produced the results. I suggest that all that is really neccessary for projection is will and belief. We must be passionate about our desire to project and our belief that we can and do project must be a conviction. If we can do this then it should be pretty easy to find our own way out.

As I've said I'm not very experienced with AP but i feel I may have found the reason why. Please feel free to dissagree if you think otherwise.

I would like to thank Frank (all the compliments you recieve are very well deserved) for cutting through the methodology and sharing with the rest of us.

Parmenion