Dear folks,
in Astral Dynamics Vol. 1,
Robert writes
Quote17. The Trance State
A trance is a very simple and natural state of being, the state entered when the physical body goes to sleep while the mind stays awake. Very simply, the frequency of brain waves changes in response to the changed level of mental activity
This stuck in my mind for a long time and I've tried to live by it.
he goes on to suggest...
QuoteEntering the trance state requires..., a clear surface mind,...
...but my experience has shown me that this simply can not be true!
I've always had very little success inducing trance by trying to empty my mind and still my thoughts and I will explain to you below.
I've come to understand that the trance state is not achieved through stillness but in fact happiness/mental & spiritual comfort and
increasing mental activity!
Everytime I find myself unhappy for some reason I find myself unable to enter trance no matter how hard I'd try to quiet my mind, likewise when I find myself rather happy I'd also find myself slipping into trance easier and the more active I would keep my mind, such as playing around in thoughts, daydreaming etc. the quicker I would find my body-mind entranced! On the other hand, if I try to hold my mind clear and silent, most of the time I only find myself hitting the wall! (locked in full waking state!)
My experiences align with the observation that people watching TV are actually quite entranced even though their mind are quite actively absorbing the enormous visual and auditory input. It has also been shown that school children have an easier time focusing on their homework while loud music is running in the background!
I've had experiences where I entranced myself by wandering in pleasant thoughts and phased (as I believe you call it) directly from there into a astral or dream-like state.
Hence, my experiences and observations show more than the opposite of what Bruce and others have claimed! This is, even for myself quite baffling after having accepted the quietness-doctrine but I'm learning to accept the fact that the trance state has 0 to do with quietness!
Let there be no doubt that tranquility is a noble quality but it simply isn't required to hit the trance state and I think people should not supress themselves, trying to quiet their minds if they don't actually feel quiet within themselves.
Discuss! :-) Has anyone made the same experience?
kind regards,
Paul
Well, I think Robert Bruce is wrong about a lot of things. :)
As for the Trance state, everyone is slightly different in "how" and "what" will be their main trigger.
For one person a quiet mind of surface thoughts is enough to enter Trance.
For another it could be a dynamic scene-type meditation.
So, if anything, you've shown that it's a very individualistically dynamic trigger for the Trance state.
Quote from: Xanth on April 13, 2010, 09:34:34
individualistically
That appears to be the core-statement of 90% of your posts :-P
kind regards,
Paul
Quote from: Tiny on April 13, 2010, 10:04:30
That appears to be the core-statement of 90% of your posts :-P
kind regards,
Paul
There's a reason for that.
I touched on that in my previous post. ;)
I think you're over-analyzing it Tiny. One problem is trying to put it into words can cause confusion - it's one of those things that's best experienced. Entering trance is a tricky balancing act, and certain techniques work for some, but not for others. But there's no denying that your mind needs to be focused on something for it to happen (single-mindedness). The more concentrated your thinking is, the more focused your awareness will be on this single-mindedness. Whether it's the darkness, your breathing, a hiss in your ears, or a "rundown" which is kind of like a purposeful daydream. The point is to capture and focus your attention away from the physical and normal thought behaviors.
And having the right, positive attitude will definitely help as well. I get the impression you're thinking quietness as just "blankness", like you just lay there and do nothing and wait. That's all you'll be doing in that situation, is waiting. You need something to capture your awareness.
Robert Peterson explains that mind state better
Quote from: personalreality on April 14, 2010, 20:01:59
Robert Peterson explains that mind state better
His book was one of my first ever Astral Projections reads!
Actually... it was so long ago, I don't really remember anything about it.
Was that the one that looked more like a bunch of journal entries? O_o
It is very individualistically indeed :-) None of you are wrong. You are just experiencing the trance state differently.
I've had the exact same experience Tiny, I guess we have the same sort of minds, I definitely find myself easier into a trance-like state when letting my imagination take reign, thinking of things and the like.
i essentially just go to sleep with a strong intention to project any time other than bed time. Eventually time seems to pass very quickly all of a sudden and then i just "lose consciousness". Some time later, don't ever really know how long (though my whole projection experience, from when i lay down to coming back, takes about an hour to 1 1/2 hours so it can't be that long) i just regain consciousness and can feel myself already moving out of the body.
It's kind of cool because I can "sense" when my consciousness shuts down with the physical body and turns inward.
I personally much prefer silence and tranquility and most of the time I don't even like to run entertainment in my head just to please my body mind. I did it all the time tho when I used to walk back home from school, i created movies inside my head and this would move me out of body awareness very much and my body would just simply be heading home in autopilot.
I really don't see it being an individual phenomenon tho. The body mind seems to be programmed to wanting to be entertained by it's 5-sense system but to the spirit, silence is just simply more healthy.
kind regards,
Paul
Tiny, what kind of trance can you enter with your method?
Quote from: personalreality on April 16, 2010, 22:02:59
i essentially just go to sleep with a strong intention to project any time other than bed time. Eventually time seems to pass very quickly all of a sudden and then i just "lose consciousness". Some time later, don't ever really know how long
Do you mean that you fall unconscious on the floor during waken hours? :-o
Quote from: Velvet V. on April 17, 2010, 19:29:43
Do you mean that you fall unconscious on the floor during waken hours? :-o
no. :?
i mean i don't practice at bed time. i do practice in my bed though. I usually project after waking in the morning or more frequently in the afternoon.
Ah, ok. You had me scared for a moment. :lol:
I want so badly to comment here but am really afraid I shouldn't. :wink:
Quote from: Zino on April 16, 2010, 19:30:38
I've had the exact same experience Tiny, I guess we have the same sort of minds
Dear Zino
Indeed we do have the same sort of minds,
it is evident today that we all have in our bodies the human mind that is a universal system that is systematically the same construct in every human being with only a limited range of genetic individuality only on a surface level.
But regardless of the facts - ignorance is potentially infinite in strength.
There are people who believe that a tree or an atom with X protons doesn't exist unless they believe it to be. Wishful thinking and selective perception are one of humanity's biggest delusions that apparently have even found their way into quantum "science" by now.
I'd like to clarifie further:
R. Bruce has practiced OBEs since age 4. He probably has more experience with different dimensions and altered states of consciousness than all members of this forum combined and he deserves much more respect than receiving dissings left without explanations as has been done by some of the high-horse members here.
And unlike most people in the field of esoterics, Robert Bruce has actually built his knowledge mostly on his own experiences and in conscious avoidance of wishful thinking.
I'm questioning the in the original post mentioned statements by R. Bruce backed with evidence and personal observation aswell as experience.
kind regards,
Paul
I think you're right. An empty mind is not necessary, but total body relaxation is.
Quote from: podizzle on May 02, 2010, 20:59:54
I think you're right. An empty mind is not necessary, but total body relaxation is.
Not so much an "empty mind", as much as a mind's surface thoughts stilled.
These are two separate ideas.
~Ryan :)
True control of mind. Even if the end you're seeking is just to watch. Control.
Quote from: personalreality on May 03, 2010, 00:37:43
True control of mind. Even if the end you're seeking is just to watch. Control.
*Tried to control PR's mind*
NOTHING THERE! UH OH! :D
;)
~Ryan
damn
I think it depends on the individual, I go into trance by clearing my mind, and cannot go into trance if I think about/picture things.
It depends on you. What works for you :-)
Quote from: Tiny on April 23, 2010, 07:21:06
Dear Zino
Indeed we do have the same sort of minds,
it is evident today that we all have in our bodies the human mind that is a universal system that is systematically the same construct in every human being with only a limited range of genetic individuality only on a surface level.
But regardless of the facts - ignorance is potentially infinite in strength.
There are people who believe that a tree or an atom with X protons doesn't exist unless they believe it to be. Wishful thinking and selective perception are one of humanity's biggest delusions that apparently have even found their way into quantum "science" by now.
I'd like to clarifie further:
R. Bruce has practiced OBEs since age 4. He probably has more experience with different dimensions and altered states of consciousness than all members of this forum combined and he deserves much more respect than receiving dissings left without explanations as has been done by some of the high-horse members here.
And unlike most people in the field of esoterics, Robert Bruce has actually built his knowledge mostly on his own experiences and in conscious avoidance of wishful thinking.
I'm questioning the in the original post mentioned statements by R. Bruce backed with evidence and personal observation aswell as experience.
kind regards,
Paul
Its not that quantum theory says things dont exist when youre not lookin at it, but that looking at something (perception) causes a probability wave to collapse into physical matter. This probability wave is what may cause us, and everything to be constantly splitting into infinite alternate dimensions based on each of those probabilities, and so percieving something forces the wave to "choose" one of those random possiblities and collapse into matter. However, Im going to agree with you Tiny, quantum physics is very theoretical and should be taken with a grain of salt, as should string theory. What I was gonna ask, is if that is true, do you think the tree as a bioligical life form can collapse itself or does it rely on other people's perception since the tree cant really make its own decisions (that may not be true, it just might take alot of time for those decisions to manifest in its body). What about animal life?
String theory is kind of silly when you think about it, kind of like the big bang.
"We don't really know a better way to describe this so we're just gonna say that everything is made up of little vibrating strings...."
However, it is eerily similar to the idea of everything being made of consciousness, animism in a way. Your question captain is also similar to the zen koan, "if a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it does it make a sound". Paradox, the nature of reality.
What is the sound of one hand clapping? What is the sound of a flute with no holes? Jeez. It is the rhythm of the artist only.
String theory has nothing to do with anything other than the construct of the physical dimensions. It is a mathematical theory. Whoopeeee!
I realize theory can have a basis in reality, especially when proved but what does it have to do with Robert Bruce?
Tiny - sorry but humanity IS a delusion. There is no such thing in reality. Humanity does not exist. This is all an illusion ~~~~~~~~~
You and I can stand directly next to each other, staring in the same direction, eyes witnessing the same event - you and I will not see the same thing. We WILL NOT see the same thing. We also WILL NOT describe the same thing. It would be close and based on the same event but it will not be the same observation. What is also interesting is that it will effect us each differently inside. I will have a different "emotional" reaction than you. This is all perception. The sphere that surrounds our consciousness and "perceives" what is to be experienced. R. Bruce and all his cohorts gave us the best explanation of their own perception. It is not dogma. It is exploration. We or others may "have the same mind" but it will NEVER be the same, ever, even in focus "4" or whatever you want to call it. Oneness gave up and sought "sameness". We are "one" but we are not the "same".