John Titor and multiple timeline theory

[Xanth]

And when you take into consideration that the single reason behind the many worlds theory in the first place was to find an explanation to the collapse of the wave function that was consistent with both the received wisdom on quantum mechanics and maintaining a strictly materialist world view, i.e. leaving out any 'spiritual forces' causing collapse, then the intellectual meltdown becomes complete. In other words, anything, no matter how far-fetched or complex, to defend materialism and deny the possibility of an afterlife.

As I read the above paragraph by you, the following statement rang into my head: "Yet it collapses into only ONE absolute"

One of the biggest advocates of the many worlds theory is my fellow countryman, Max Tegmark. I'm sorry, but I regard this person as a very smart, mathematically brilliant, highly intelligent idiot.

Don't be sorry.  Call it as you see it.  That's all you can do. 

[no_leaf_clover]

"Yet it collapses into only ONE absolute"

Yes, from many possibilities that not only physical exist but even give concrete, physical evidence of their existence (the wave-form distribution of electrons before observation)...

...down to a single pin-prick of an electron impact while being observed.

The collapse of the electron's possible locations into a single absolute location happens only when it is observed.  This was a truly revolutionary experiment and it'll be expounded upon for many years to come I think.

And even if the "many worlds" theory was developed to try to get around "spiritual" forces, it's not that simple to get away from. The fact that simple observation causes such a profound change in manifestation is unavoidable in this experiment.  Scientists like Bill Tiller at Stanford are already developing physics models to take consciousness itself into account.

[astralm]

Max Tegmark is a brilliant, mathematician.  There in lies the problem.  Math is not real, it is not tangible, there is no physical thing as math that exists or ever has.  But we treat it like it is an objective fact, and almost every scientist believes the universe at it's core is math.  Math is the greatest human invention ever.  It is the best model we have ever come up with for how the universe works, period.  Every single science and economy and way of life is based off it.  However it is still a model for how the universe works and therefore is limited.  Just like you can only go so far (barely at all) into chemistry using the model of electron clouds.  Electrons don't have clouds, it is just a model that allows you to predict how they operate under certain conditions.  Under other conditions we need a different model.  Math has always been our best model and been without limitations.  I believe quantum mechanics and the resulting creation of computers allowed us to process enough information where we are now at the end of the line for the usefulness of math.  As far as these theoretical physics and hardcore applications of it go.  I believe we are going to start seeing not greater understanding of how things work but nonsense, multiple worlds theory being one of them.

I do think if we did not have computers we would never reach the end of what math is capable of.  Math probably is capable of handling any input the human mind can come up with.  It took crazy amounts of data processing from crazy fast computers for us to start and see it begin to stretch and bend.

But who knows maybe I'm completely wrong, either way it is going to be interesting to watch.  I'll get more excited about watching a physics documentary than the superbowl any time.

EDIT:  I will add on that theoretically IF (and doesn't appear this is likely) but IF there was a single unit of something that made up the universe AND that single unit of whatever was uniform (all exactly equal and unchanging), THEN you could say math based on whole positive numbers is real and objective.  However even this extremely unlikely scenario still only allows positive real whole numbers (integers) to be real.  Anything extrapolated from a fraction (not reducible to a whole number), or a negative number, or an imaginary number would still not be "real".  You will never ever be able to take 3 of anything, subtract 5, add 4 and end up with 2.  You can never make it past the first step.

[Xanth]

I've said recently that the simple fact that you can use math to model *ANYTHING* in this reality is proof that this reality is virtual.
If you know the math, you can model everything.

[astralm]

I've said recently that the simple fact that you can use math to model *ANYTHING* in this reality is proof that this reality is virtual.
If you know the math, you can model everything.

Could not disagree more:)  If math could model everything, math itself would not be a model, it would be reality.  However concepts we use in math are not reality.  I gave the example of negative.  We assign negatives, we created the concept of something being negative.  There is no such thing as negative in reality without our definition.  Same with fractions.  If you cut an apple in half do you really have half an apple?  No it just is what it is.  We see what it is as a half of something because we decided that.  We just don't see things that way because math is the way everything is related, beginning from the second you are born.

[Stillwater]

I've said recently that the simple fact that you can use math to model *ANYTHING* in this reality is proof that this reality is virtual.
If you know the math, you can model everything.

Hard to know... maybe this is true, maybe it isn't.

There might be some intangibles in our experience here that don't fit into mathematical modeling... the best candidates for these being "first person experiences", like  "I feel too hot", or "I am elated". Now of course I know there are physically modelable processes surrounding these feelings, like temperature, and dopamine levels, etc, but I think your understanding is nuanced enough in this area to know what I mean when I say those are merely the periphoral "functionalist" explanations, that don't address the experential component. The mathematical model can tell us when a human might feel uncomfortably warm, but they don't have a prayer at explaining why the experience that human mind has is like it is.

I agree with you that this reality seems like a construct built from within another reality... but our minds are also part of this reality too, and they possess all of these slippery unquantified qualities...

[astralm]

Hard to know... maybe this is true, maybe it isn't.

There might be some intangibles in our experience here that don't fit into mathematical modeling... the best candidates for these being "first person experiences", like  "I feel too hot", or "I am elated". Now of course I know there are physically modelable processes surrounding these feelings, like temperature, and dopamine levels, etc, but I think your understanding is nuanced enough in this area to know what I mean when I say those are merely the periphoral "functionalist" explanations, that don't address the experential component. The mathematical model can tell us when a human might feel uncomfortably warm, but they don't have a prayer at explaining why the experience that human mind has is like it is.

I agree with you that this reality seems like a construct built from within another reality... but our minds are also part of this reality too, and they possess all of these slippery unquantified qualities...

I like what you are saying.  In the end the most objective thing we have is yes/no statements.  Either something is or it isn't.  Math is a model for dealing with this.  Either you are feeling hot or you aren't.  Either light is vibrating at certain wave length or it isn't.  If the light is vibrating either your eyes are translating that light or they arent.  Everything either simply is or it isn't.  How many yes/no statements do you need for all of PMR.  Well you could easily do it by every atom (who knows how many) or just as easily with one.  Is PMR this or is it something else.  But that doesn't matter because once we try looking at that way we are just using our model (math) to understand the yes/no statements.  I am quite open to the idea that the is/is not statement itself might be an objective truth.  Of course you would have to filter it though since we never actually directly interact with PMR (we being our PMR minds, not the NPMR us), only our interpretation of it through our senses.

[Greytraveller]

Greetings all
This is a very interesting thread and I'm inclined to agree with most of the arguments presented by all of you..

Bluefirephoenix, you wrote

Thats a good point it would be impossible. The question is then, if the universe exists only on one timeline, why is hard to predict the future accurately using psychic means.

The 'timeline' of this Past universe is manifest. The Past time of our world has occurred, is basically 'set in stone' and cannot be changed. (Note that there Are alternate 1 dimensional timelines of the past but none of these can or will in any way alter the past.) However, future timelines are latent. Meaning there are many different future possibilities. However some futures are more likely to occur than others. The 'art' of remote viewing is still in its infancy. Someday, probably quite soon, somebody will find a way to discern the difference between rv'ing a very likely 1 dimensional future timeline between rv'ing a very unlikely 1 dimensional future timeline. At that point remote viewers WILL be able to foresee the future with a high degree of accuracy.

Xanth, you wrote

To me, why you can't predict the future with any certainty is related to the concept that this is a probabilistic reality.
While the past has been set, and the present (now) is being set... the choices made in the present effect the probability of other options happening.

This is also what supports the concept of "Intent" being used to modify the future probability of an action taking place.
Predicting that action and modifying the probability of that action happening are two separate things.  

Very astute of you to notice that importance of 'intent', both in thought and action, on shaping the future. Most people will take it for granted that only the physically 'living' are capable of intent. However, I conjecture that the 'intent' of non-physical discarnate beings is actually Much more important on shaping the future. It could well be that the paranormal, the occult, religion, 'acts of gods, the eternal mysteries and similar unexplained phenomena are really the result of discarnate entities' attempts to shape the future to their will.

Regards  
Grey

[Greytraveller]

Xanth, you wrote

I've said recently that the simple fact that you can use math to model *ANYTHING* in this reality is proof that this reality is virtual.
If you know the math, you can model everything.

True indeed. Mathematical models of higher dimensions have been around for some time. However, these models have never been  meant to represent 'real' higher dimensional, non-physical locations.
So it would be a fascinating undertaking to mathematically model an ethereal Belief System Territory, a dream plane or an exotic astral locale.

BTW if anybody knows of such an attempt to mathematically model and describe a nonphysical location then please provide a link.

Thanx
Grey

[Greytraveller]

I had problems with that last post so will have to continue here.

The "future outbounder" method mentioned by Bluefirephoenix could be the precursor to a method of accurately remote viewing the future.
Using my theory (that 'alternate universes' are 1 dimensional timelines and 2 dimensional time planes) then John Titor is Not a time traveller. Rather, Titor is a gifted and well trained remote viewer. Titor probably conducted dozens, maybe hundreds, of remote viewing sessions attempting to view future timelines. He probably saw many crazy events during his rv sessions. He also probably saw many recurring themes. He probably DID rv a future civil war in the United States. This was probably a very rare event. More likely he regularly rv'ed civil unrest, demonstrations, riots and looting. And this is exactly what has taken place (particularly in Ferguson, MO and Baltimore) over the past few months.
So Titor's 'prediction of civil war is either
a) a warning by a private citizen that social forces could potentially tear America apart. And I am actually old enough to remember the riots caused by Martin Luther King's assassination in 1968 so this is a very real possibility.
Or b) this could have been some sort of social experiment conducted by a clandestine US intelligence agency.

Regards  
Grey

[Bluefirephoenix]

 It's a matter of finding the best tool for isolating the events you want to look at. ARV is used for numbers and such. It's a matter of finding a structure that works and building on it. But if we were in a single time line, looking at the future should be easier than it is. The thing is the same thing happens regardless of psychic method used. So Astral projection/phasing, associative symbolic methods, scrying and visionary, all have the same problem. I hit an accurate precognition about once every 2 weeks or so.. it's not impossible to do with the outbounder just more difficult. The outbounder method could also be used for phasing and astral projection if the person doing the projection is familiar with doing blind targets and has a decent accuracy with practice targets.

an example of the type of tools they use is here. It's a potentially useful example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObeI82f5OmI

[Greytraveller]

Bluefirephoenix
Remote viewing the future accurately would probably require a mathematical model to provide a set of time/space coordinates. Such a model has yet to be devised. (Unless the CIA and/or another intel agency has already done this  .)
Another possibility is to have several remote viewers look ahead to the same future time and same specific location. If All the rv'ers see the same events happening then those events are most likely going to happen. If some rv'ers see one series of events occurring and other rv'ers see another series of events happening then the future is very much in doubt.

Regards 
Grey

[Szaxx]

To see what's in the future you keep an open mind and look within yourself for that feel of being correct in the overall ambience.
You can start with a country that you  know nothing about. Feel it as a name of many people, associate this feeling of many with the name. (Deja vu editing). Be convinced the people are in this country. Pick some item of interest that may make the news. Think of the people in this country and the chosen item. Mix them in your mind then search for some change in the ambience as you play out some kind of role for the chosen item.
Imagine the event occurring and feel the ambience. If no change is perceived, alter the particulars of the role and feel again. After a while you may find something repeating or standing out. Work out as many permutations as you can around this signature. More prominent feelings will stand out giving a more refined event.
Desire more knowledge of the thought after the meditation is over. You'll know when to quit quite clearly.

The above is very basic, I always use one week into the future as a timeline to base the experience upon.
Some NP experiences have followed  this. The detail is out of this world. It would be nice to find someone else experiencing the NP side of this.
The details returned are mostly composed out of the thoughts of others. What they see as real is what you experience. If a disaster occurs, most often you'll get a flash of it one week before it occurs.

Those with no previous experience seem to do well at the beginning with this. Although its very general in nature, some details are exact.
Anyone going to try this timeline message service?
That would be interesting...

[Bluefirephoenix]

Hey why not play with this. eh. Okay Szaxx I want you too look through this target site.  I can't do the phase 4 and 5 yet but I can do 1-3 Don't pick anything likely to be tramautic or upsetting.. it's very important for me to be able to trust you on this. It needs to be similar to the targets Random numbers I have never tried and I'm not able to do them with regular RV yet. I'll do the session then I'll email it to Xanth who can hold it. You won't know what the session contains when I give the okay you pick the target. Make it reasonable like a few hours or days ahead. So we can compare

1. once you okay it I'll do the session
2. I send session to Xanth
3. I give you the okay
4 you pick the target in the near future hours to days ahead.
5 Let us know the date but not the target til after
6. show the target for feedback.

pick targets similar to these. A picture or two would be great  Look through these targets when you decide. You are the outbounder so you need to be present at the target taking pictures or at least having a picture available of the target site. ( It's important to assess the accuracy of the RV session)

Anyone else who wants to try to do this can too. I'll put up a new thread for this.