Meditation Experience

[Stookie]

This type of visualization has been unlike anything I've tried before. It's easier for me to stay concentrated on what I'm visualizing. My imagination has been going wild, and that's what keeps me focused. I've been using it along with Monroe CD's too.

Last week I watched "The Dark Crystal", which I had never seen before. At the beginning, there are these creatures that all start a chant together. It sounds almost exactly like the resonant tuning on the Monroe CD's. So when I do the tuning now, I imagine myself sitting in a lotus position with a circle of these guys around me doing the chant. It seems to ground me into my visualization before I go exploring. (It's pretty surreal).

There is a new exitement to my meditations that I didn't have before. I never know what I'm going to experience. It's funny how I started off wanting a traditional OBE, and now it dosen't seem to matter.

[Selski]

It's funny how I started off wanting a traditional OBE, and now it dosen't seem to matter.

I know exactly what you mean Stookie.  At one time, I'd be horrified to learn that I would move away from OBEs.  Traditional OBEs were the be-all and end-all, but now I feel there's so much more to be gained from this guided visualisation/meditation thingymajig.

And what's especially nice about it, in my opinion, is the more you do it, the more you want to do it, and the easier it becomes.  I met a "guide" during this type of meditation a couple of months ago, and I've met him a few times now.  He has become as real to me as my next-door neighbour.  

Sarah

[MindFreak]

Selski, that is a good point I have only made it to the first stage. But the fact that the first one has been verified leads me to believe that there is truth to the others. Also, the different stages or levels of higher consciousness are just distinctions to judge how deep you are. The experience changes the deeper you go, the 8 levels are just changes in the experience.

I did say HIGHER stages of consciousness but maybe that is a poor word choice. I should have said something like stages of altered consciousness or heightened.

The different stages are distinguished by the experience. The lower ones still include physical pleasure and awareness while the higher ones go farther beyond the physcial.

As for my experience with the first stage, I basically followed the instructions left by the buddha. I put my attention on my breath at the nostrils, while sitting in the lotus position. Just watching the breath, in and out. The mind wanders, as it always does, and when you notice it you put it back on the breath. This is Initial and Sustained attention. When the mind can be held on the breath for long enough, it becomes concentrated. You can feel the power of the mind grow as it becomes concentrated and you feel an incredible feeling of pleasure and rapture, euphoria fill your body. At times it was too much I had to break it.

This type of meditation is part of the Path of  Buddhism.
Here is one of many passages where the Buddha talks about the first stage:
"There is the case where a monk — withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from negative states of mind — enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, with directed thought and evaluation. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal."

[Selski]

Hi Mindfreak

Thanks for your post.  It makes more sense when you explain fully.  

I've tried the breathing.  I find that my mind wanders far too much.  I guess concentrating on my breath is just not interesting enough for me.  Which I suppose is why I like the self-guided visualisation technique so much.  

The two techniques do have their similarities, in that we are both focusing intently on something – you on your breath, and me on my imagined scenario.  And yes, I do know what you mean about the power of the mind – I also experience this when I find that I am "locked" in my scenario and things start happening that I'm no longer creating.  I then lose practically all sense of the physical.  Certainly, my physical hearing shuts off, and I cannot feel my physical body (although I am still aware of it, to some extent).

How long have you been meditating using this technique?  Do you find it gets easier each time you do it?  

I have only recently started doing this – although I've probably been doing it for years without labelling it.  I'm always lost in my imagination...   however, I have tended to let it drift before, whereas now I am taking more control of the scenario.

I find it is getting easier, although occasionally I am just not in the mood, and it doesn't work.  It seems that trying too hard is pointless.  I do have to be relaxed and peaceful.  Sometimes I wonder if I'm making it all up.  However, when I am "back" fully in the physical, I do get a real sense that I have been "somewhere".  At times it feels like I've been gone for hours!!

Anyway, thanks for sharing and good luck with yours – do let us know how you get on.

Sarah

[MindFreak]

After a while it does get easier, but after the first break through its almost gauranteed not to work the second time because you will find yourself wanting the feeling of rapture/euphoria and that creates a distraction of the mind. You cant have any goal or desire, nothing exists but the breath. But the breath should just be followed, not controlled. Like you said sometimes your just not in the mood, and the mind  wont cooperate.

[Stookie]

However, when I am "back" fully in the physical, I do get a real sense that I have been "somewhere". At times it feels like I've been gone for hours!!

I know the feeling. Sometimes when I'm done I say to myself "I don't know what just happened". Sometimes during my meditations I know something is going on, like conversations with people, but I'm only half-lucid. But when it's over, I'm like "Holy-Moly". Example:

Last night I was doing my now-regular visualization and got to a point where in my exploring I was talking with a female who was traveling next to me. It wasn't until halfway through the conversation I realized that I had been chatting with another person. If I could just be a little more lucid during these incidents. When I get up, I know something happened - I'm just not always sure what it was.

[greatoutdoors]

Mindfreak,
I tried your technique for just a few minutes yesterday (all the time I had at the moment) and the results were quite interesting. I began "seeing things" almost immediately, first a human eye that filled almost my entire viewing area. This was feminine with long eyelashes -- very pretty lady! Then it morphed into the same Mountain Lion face that I have seen in other forms of meditation. As usual, this "kitty" didn't say or do anything, but was just there, looking at me. I had to break off the meditation at that point.

Stookie,
I know what you mean about realizing what just happened. That's happened to me on more than one occasion and makes me more than ever determined to at least get into lucid dreaming!

[The Present Moment]

The 8 stages in Buddhist meditation are a road map for helping people identify where they are, much like in Monroe's or Frank's models.

[Selski]

Hi The Present Moment

Thanks for sharing the link.  I had a look, but it isn't for me.  That's not to say it might be spot on for someone else.  

I guess we're all different.  

I'll happily go along with Monroe's levels because to me, they make sense, or I suppose you could say they resonate with me.  I like the language he uses.  It appeals to me.  So does Frank's model.

Although have you noticed that certain books can be read only when you are ready for them? (I think James touched on this with The Celestine Prophecies).  I don't know whether it's an age thing, probably more to do with maturity of the mind, but some books you read again a few years later and wonder why you didn't "get it" the first time around.  

So perhaps I haven't got the maturity of mind for the 8 stages of consciousness just yet.  :scareboo:

And one day it'll be like "oh the penny's just dropped.  Why haven't I been doing this for years?."

Who knows?

Sarah

[The Present Moment]

Hello Selski

Buddhist meditation is hugely different from phasing. Astral projection would be a distraction from its basic goal of concentrating on one thing (breath, mantra, etc.)

Those short descriptions of the later jhanas probably made no more sense to you than they did to me. I found a better page here that gives much more information. It explains the jhanas as stages of concentration leading to altered states -- not areas -- of consciousness.

[Stookie]

Buddhist meditation is hugely different from phasing. Astral projection would be a distraction from its basic goal of concentrating on one thing (breath, mantra, etc.)

That made me think of a story I read in a book. I think it was in "The Way of the Peaceful Warrior" by Dan Millman. (Sorry if I got that wrong).

There was a class of Buddhists meditating together, and one monk got up and ran to the Abbot and said, "I saw awful visions of hell and demons. It was horrible."

The Abbot said, "Let it go."

A little while later he comes running back up to the Abbot and says, "It was wonderful. I saw heaven and beautiful spiritual beings."

The Abbot said, "Let it go."

[MindFreak]

Thats exactly how it is.

[hypnotist1]

Quot: from Walter Sichort Advanced Master Hypnotherapist my Head Instructor.

Meditation: "Hypnosis and Meditation is a heightened state of awareness".


Walter Sichort discovered a level of Hypnosis beyond somnambulism.  He believed it to be even deeper then the Esdaile State (hypnotic coma), which he labeled. Ultra Depth due to the fact that the subject in this state would produced continuous REM (rapid-eye-movement) which only occurs during sleep.  

Frank (hypnotist1)

[NickJW]

So when you guys are doing this visualization are you phasing or actually seeing these things, or are you all just envisioning it. Is it completley conroled or does your mind just take control of the experience.

[Stookie]

For me it's really varied both in control and lucidity. I start in control and sometimes maintain control throughout the experience. In this case it's not phasing (I am in focus 10 though), just regular visualization but more vivid than normal. This is when strange things I don't control pop up. Even though I may plan on visualizing something specific, an entirely different thing will come up. If I'm not that lucid, something strange can happen for quite a long time before I'm aware of what's happening. And sometimes I actually phase, but it's never what I'm visualizing. Normally something freaky.

[Selski]

So when you guys are doing this visualization are you phasing or actually seeing these things, or are you all just envisioning it. Is it completley conroled or does your mind just take control of the experience.

Hi Nick

For me, it's a bit of all you mention at times.  It starts controlled, but certain things do happen where you realise you didn't plan/imagine it.  It's also important to be open to those changes in your scenario, and rather than staying within your rigid expectations, you go along with whatever happens.  

For instance a long time ago I was meditating and a dragonfly flew past me.  Curiosity made me wonder about the dragonfly, and rather than continue with sitting quietly at a waterfall contemplating life, love and the price of bread (as you do), I decided to "go with the flow" and followed the dragonfly.  I learned something quite special by following it.

There are occasional times where I phase into the scenario completely, but I don't strictly lose all sensation of my physical body either.

So in a nutshell, it's a mixed bag of goodies.  

Sarah

[Ben K]

For me it's really varied both in control and lucidity. I start in control and sometimes maintain control throughout the experience. In this case it's not phasing (I am in focus 10 though), just regular visualization but more vivid than normal. This is when strange things I don't control pop up. Even though I may plan on visualizing something specific, an entirely different thing will come up. If I'm not that lucid, something strange can happen for quite a long time before I'm aware of what's happening. And sometimes I actually phase, but it's never what I'm visualizing. Normally something freaky.

Agreed I see this alot too. Il be laying there and all of a sudden realize that im starting to dream about some crazy scenario that i hadnt even planned.

I think this is the point where you really have to learn to control your experience if thats what your going for. If you "go with the flow" you will fall asleep so you have to find just the right amount of effort to put out.

[Meg]

Hi folks,

I just wanted to thank you for your interesting discussion.   I am making my very first steps towards meditation, so it was really useful.

Meg x

[Selski]

Hi Meg

Glad it's been of interest to you.

I hope you find meditation to be useful and helpful.  Of course, if this type of meditation doesn't feel right for you, there are plenty others to choose from.

Don't expect major insights to happen at first.  Like most things, the more you do it, the better it gets.

Good luck, have fun, and let us know how you are getting on.  

Sarah