Hi guys,
So I was meditating last night in a kind of half lotus position. I had this mantra kind of going off in my head so I decided to chant it (in my head) while meditating with very light, slow breathing. After a while of doing this I kind of got the urge to focus on levitating my body up. By this point my 3rd eye and crown chakra were pulsating like crazy. I just go along with it, since I'm used to it. I start visualizing my other chakras lighting up though and I feel a little bit of a spark in each one of them. Now at this point I realized that I was starting to enter paralysis which got me super excited since, I have never reached that point through upwards sitting meditation.
After this I start to hear a monotoned ringing (not like the inner ear ringing but the pre-projection ringing) followed by a different tone every now and then that harmonized with the first ringing. Then I started to hear voices again. This always seems to happen to me right before actually projecting. As if my consciousness is somewhere else and Im slowly changing consciousness and I can hear everyone around me. Usually its a girls voice that I hear though.
In any case, I never was able to fully project. I think its because I was getting distracted by all that was going on (my solar plexus chakra was pounding off the charts as usual).
If anyone has any advice on how to break past where I'm at, I'd love it.
Thanks,
-Firmitas
You seem more advanced than myself with attaining deep trance but my advice is.. you have to get used to the bombardment of sensory input enough to ignore it. That will come from experience in reaching this stage. It also wouldn't hurt to meditate in environments that may be noisy.
Hey Firmitas,
I'm with Astral316, you're well on your way!
What I'm currently doing is working towards the "Point of Consciousness" state... which, in essence is existing within the Void.
You want to remove all physical awareness and senses until you're nothing but a single point of consciousness floating in the vast emptiness of the void.
You're doing well so far! :)
i totally echo the sentiment of the others.
i think that a commonly overlooked fact is that people who are impeccable meditators can project fairly easily, it just requires a particular focus of attention. i think you're already quite ahead of most of us in that regard.
Thanks guys. I agree, I'm sure that once I reach this point more often I wont think so much of it and I can enter the void.
Xanth: You're talking about phasing out right?
-Firmitas
Oh also, does anyone have any thoughts on the ringing and the girl's voice? I think I mentioned them in my original post
-Firmitas
I think a lot of proficient meditators choose not to project - it's not their goal. Or they find something that makes projection not very important. Some Buddhists advise not getting caught up in the astral as it can keep you from finding liberation.
Quote from: Xanth on April 05, 2011, 10:05:24
What I'm currently doing is working towards the "Point of Consciousness" state... which, in essence is existing within the Void.
You want to remove all physical awareness and senses until you're nothing but a single point of consciousness floating in the vast emptiness of the void.
You can't work towards it. If you're meditating, you're not going to find it. You have to stop... everything. Including the world around you. It's the easiest thing that you can possibly do, yet the most illusive thing to find. Eastern proverb kind of stuff.
It's weird you bring this up, because it's completely different from most everything you've ever said regarding projection. It's transcendental. And a bit refreshing.
he's reading TOE
For the most part, it's exactly what Frank always talked about... but never knew he was talking about it.
And I didn't realize it either until I actually began to read more, open my horizons more and actually considered it myself.
The process of Phasing = Transcendental Meditation.
But everyone needs to call it whatever is most comfortable for them. For me it's the PoC State now. :)
Why would people not choose to go into the astral if their mediating. I don't get that, stookie
Quote from: NickisDank on April 05, 2011, 20:11:56
Why would people not choose to go into the astral if their mediating. I don't get that, stookie
Because non physical exploration is really only a small segment of the big picture.
The big picture being improving yourself spiritually. You're in this physical reality, in my opinion, to do just that... sure, the non-physical *can* assist in learning about all this, but this physical reality is a much better teacher for spiritual growth. That's why you're here.
QuoteI think a lot of proficient meditators choose not to project - it's not their goal. Or they find something that makes projection not very important. Some Buddhists advise not getting caught up in the astral as it can keep you from finding liberation.
I had a yoga teacher who offhandedly mentioned "if you find yourself distracted by the Spirit World just gently bring yourself back to the meditation." I think I was probably the only one in the class who caught the significance of that and I thought "What!!!??? It's that easy for some people!?" Later she told me that most of her dreams are lucid and that she just spends them meditating. People like that's focus on meditation is probably why spiritual experiences come so naturally to them but they just don't really care. Haha. It's maddening.
Quote from: Xanth on April 05, 2011, 19:29:06
For the most part, it's exactly what Frank always talked about... but never knew he was talking about it.
And I didn't realize it either until I actually began to read more, open my horizons more and actually considered it myself.
The process of Phasing = Transcendental Meditation.
But everyone needs to call it whatever is most comfortable for them. For me it's the PoC State now. :)
I disagree about phasing being the same as TM. They both have completely different intentions behind them. If you want to phase, TM is not the way to go. And if you want to be "one with the universe", phasing is a distraction. Frank gathered some transcendental ideas, mostly related to F4, but he resisted everything related to TM, and I gather he never came to that sublime state. It was too mystical. Both in ideas and methods. He did not like the idea of trying to stop your thinking and found it unnecessary, probably because he was only trying to phase. And that's fine - this site is primarily about the astral anyways.
Quote from: NickisDank on April 05, 2011, 20:11:56
Why would people not choose to go into the astral if their mediating. I don't get that, stookie
There's more than the astral
Quote from: Xanth on April 05, 2011, 19:29:06
For the most part, it's exactly what Frank always talked about... but never knew he was talking about it.
And I didn't realize it either until I actually began to read more, open my horizons more and actually considered it myself.
The process of Phasing = Transcendental Meditation.
But everyone needs to call it whatever is most comfortable for them. For me it's the PoC State now. :)
I agree that Frank's highest focus level was just him reaching the deeper levels of meditation. His F4 sounds like ego death, the absence of the sense of duality, what you're supposed to get when you observe yourself long enough to reject everything that gives you the illusion of individuality.
That said, there's many different kinds of meditation, they can broadly be said to be striving towards the same thing. Transcendental Meditation can probably be exchanged for vipassana (mindfulness) meditation, yoga, etc...
Frank seemed to reject the idea of ego death too. He never made mention of ego, and his experiences in F4 sound like more of a merging of ego with archetypal concepts. When he left, F4 was still fairly new to him and he felt he needed more experience with it to say anything more about it. That doesn't sound very transcendental, because if it were he would have transcended any need to. What more can be learned about a total merging with the entire cosmos? I believe this is where Frank's F4 falls short. And maybe even a possible distraction the Buddhists warn of.
I can't say for sure, only Frank knows what he experienced. But I do know that he adamantly rejected many ideas behind TM. Was he right, or did it hold him back? I don't have a clue.
Quote from: Stookie on April 06, 2011, 12:04:27
I disagree about phasing being the same as TM. They both have completely different intentions behind them. If you want to phase, TM is not the way to go. And if you want to be "one with the universe", phasing is a distraction. Frank gathered some transcendental ideas, mostly related to F4, but he resisted everything related to TM, and I gather he never came to that sublime state. It was too mystical. Both in ideas and methods. He did not like the idea of trying to stop your thinking and found it unnecessary, probably because he was only trying to phase. And that's fine - this site is primarily about the astral anyways.
From my experience, the goals are one in the same. They're both about quieting the mind and becoming one, not really with the universe but with your own consciousness (which, I guess could just be semantics rearing it ugly head again LoL). One can meditate into the "Point of Consciousness" (PoC) state by removing all notions of physical awareness and senses... or in other words, Phase into the Void.
I see them as metaphors describing the same process. Several tools with different names that all help you to focus your Intent... in the end, that's all meditation is: A tool to help you focus your Intent. I whole-heartedly believe that learning to achieve the PoC state through meditation is the most direct route to non-physical exploration. And even further than that, it's your direct route to self exploration. That, in my opinion, is really the larger picture... learning more about yourself.
As for the idea of what Focus 4 is... I guess I really can't talk from experience on that one. LoL
Ohhhhhhh... we're not on the same page.
So where does this "PoC" exist? Do you call it that because it doesn't fit into the "F" model of things? Don't you think it would have been brought up as being important before this?
QuoteI whole-heartedly believe that learning to achieve the PoC state through meditation is the most direct route to non-physical exploration.
But you've whole-heartedly believed a lot of stuff in the past that this "PoC" thing negates. I'd save "whole-heartedly" until you're really really whole-heartedly sure.
Stookie it sounds like you're trying to fit everything into a single framework. Applying terminology to everything can be misleading. The concept of narrowing your focus until your consciousness occupies a single point is a pretty standard experience in meditation. Monroe's "Focus 10" is the exact same thing. If you read that long article describing the sensations of Focus 10 they describe this state explicitly. Many people are probably familiar with it but they give it different names and oscillate between describing it as a real location or a state of consciousness...
Maybe it's more helpful to think about things in terms of how they appear to a person through subjective experience, rather than trying to slot them into a unifying theory of reality. The more I think about it this way the simpler it gets.
Quote from: Stookie on April 06, 2011, 14:29:23
Ohhhhhhh... we're not on the same page.
So where does this "PoC" exist? Do you call it that because it doesn't fit into the "F" model of things? Don't you think it would have been brought up as being important before this?
But you've whole-heartedly believed a lot of stuff in the past that this "PoC" thing negates. I'd save "whole-heartedly" until you're really really whole-heartedly sure.
PoC = Void = Focus 21 = 3D Blackness = Focus Zero
At least, that's how I see it. All just metaphors for the same thing. All semantics. All just a way of describing the same thing.
In the end, it's all just "YOU" and "YOURSELF". I'd say that's the end goal too... but then, that's not really the end goal, it's more the starting point.
It's not semantics, as FZ is not what I was talking about. Your new terminology threw me off. Same old discussion, new words. You're even making it sound a bit mystical now. That's why I was surprised, but I misunderstood.
Quote from: bluremi on April 06, 2011, 15:21:05
Stookie it sounds like you're trying to fit everything into a single framework. Applying terminology to everything can be misleading. The concept of narrowing your focus until your consciousness occupies a single point is a pretty standard experience in meditation. Monroe's "Focus 10" is the exact same thing. If you read that long article describing the sensations of Focus 10 they describe this state explicitly. Many people are probably familiar with it but they give it different names and oscillate between describing it as a real location or a state of consciousness...
Maybe it's more helpful to think about things in terms of how they appear to a person through subjective experience, rather than trying to slot them into a unifying theory of reality. The more I think about it this way the simpler it gets.
For me, everything is very very simple. Tao simple. At first I thought that's where Xanth was taking it. Really, it's this type of terminology that makes the world seem complicated when it's not.
Where I thought we were going: everything is consciousness, all else is illusory emanation of consciousness, including physical, astral, ego/self. Experience that and there is nothing else to do. Tao.
My opinion.. it's a bad idea introducing an extremely ambiguous term to describe a concept that's already identified by mystic/eastern and Monroe terminology. I too was confused by "point of consciousness" which can mean anything from one's perspective in the astral to a Focus 4 experience. I'm all for seeing the forest for the trees, but people come here looking for clear information from which they can build their own skepticism off of. If I was confused by this new (presumingly Campbell's) terminology I'd feel sorry for anyone coming here attempting to grasp all of it. The less and more clear the terminology is out there, the faster an "astral newb" can venture into this subject with a more intuitive spirit. Again, just my opinion.
Sometimes a subject is very simple but hard to grasp. There's no substitute for legwork.
Legwork isn't avoidable but unnecessary confusion is.
Quote from: Astral316 on April 06, 2011, 17:39:12
My opinion.. it's a bad idea introducing an extremely ambiguous term to describe a concept that's already identified by mystic/eastern and Monroe terminology. I too was confused by "point of consciousness" which can mean anything from one's perspective in the astral to a Focus 4 experience. I'm all for seeing the forest for the trees, but people come here looking for clear information from which they can build their own skepticism off of. If I was confused by this new (presumingly Campbell's) terminology I'd feel sorry for anyone coming here attempting to grasp all of it. The less and more clear the terminology is out there, the faster an "astral newb" can venture into this subject with a more intuitive spirit. Again, just my opinion.
I guess that really does reinforce the idea that one has to come to their own truths. :)
Quote from: Xanth on April 06, 2011, 18:34:48
I guess that really does reinforce the idea that one has to come to their own truths. :)
How so? I'm arguing practicality, not personal truths (which is a safe term for "beliefs" anyway.) Do you believe in the concept or the label Tom Campbell attached to it?
Quote from: Astral316 on April 06, 2011, 19:07:56
How so? I'm arguing practicality, not personal truths (which is a safe term for "beliefs" anyway.) Do you believe in the concept or the label Tom Campbell attached to it?
I've experienced the PoC State, it's not a belief to me anymore... it's a known.
As for the rest of Tom's TOE, I neither believe nor disbelieve it. I'm gathering my own evidence to support or not support his claims.
What I do believe is that my KNOWING what the PoC State is and can do for me is how I'm going to find that evidence. And honestly, if it's not there... then meh... I'm not really disappointed either. Win/win for me. :)
But to answer your direct question of "How so?"... you said it yourself, these terms can mean almost anything from ones own perspective. Finding what they mean to you is most important.
If it's a known to you it's a belief... not all beliefs are based on faith, but that's beside the point. You seem to be meandering around the point anyway so I'll leave it at that.
Quote from: Astral316 on April 07, 2011, 07:45:52
If it's a known to you it's a belief... not all beliefs are based on faith, but that's beside the point. You seem to be meandering around the point anyway so I'll leave it at that.
Let's see if I can explain this a little better then, because there's some confusion going on here.
If it's a known to me, it's a belief to you. Not a belief to me.
That's the difference. :)
But, in the end, I guess you may call it whatever you wish.
Just so there is clarification towards the original subject of this thread...
The "known" I'm referring to is that if you want to learn to have conscious exit non-physical experiences (ie: astral projections from a completely conscious state at any time of day), then one needs to master themselves first. You need to learn to initially learn to quiet your mind through meditation. There's really no other way around it.
This "was" a belief for me at one point until I finally made the connection between my experiences and my meditation past. It was a belief... it's now something I "know" to be true. Meditation is the starting point, it's a requirement for learning to explore the non-physical.
I'm sorry if I was slightly confusing in my explanation of that before. But that's my point, in a nutshell. LoL
Edit: Had a response that was relevant to your response but not to my premise... not everything boils down to beliefs, hopefully you can realize that. When it comes to helping others around here it's a "known" to me that complicating things with a few more sets of terminology only to tote the Campbell brand will make the learning curve steeper for the beginners.
Quote from: Astral316 on April 07, 2011, 09:59:00
And Jesus saving the sinners post-death is a "known" to Christians, races that aren't of European descent being inferior is a "known" to white supremacists, the Earth being the center of the universe was a "known" pre-Renaissance etc.
I see the difference quite well, thanks for the clarification. :-)
Except in two of those three examples they didn't have any actual experience beyond faith (or their bible) to back their up their position.
As for the Earth being the center of the universe, well, they had observational data... so I can't argue against that one. Their observational data just happened to be wrong eventually. LoL
Hell, I'm not even asking you to believe me when I say that Meditation is a requirement to learning to Project. I'm saying "try it". See for yourself if what I say is true or not. Don't believe or disbelieve me. Do your own experiments; record your own results; come to your own conclusions if I'm a crazy nutjob or not. LoL :)
And just as some background info: It's not like I just one day stood up and said "Tom said the PoC state is required" and *bam* that's what I now believe. He opened my eyes to what the last 10 - 15 years of my life have been yelling at me. I stand from a position of knowing, not believing through faith. If that's not understood... well then, I guess we'll just have to leave it at that. :)
With Franks Focus Model, it *WAS* always a matter of just belief... I've since dropped that belief trap and I'm now focusing upon finding my own evidence for how reality is modeled, if indeed you can model such a thing. :)
For the record I've experienced the 3D Blackness... I believe it because I experienced it, you might say it's a known to me. I could think up a hundred different names for it too... "the really dark place", "the ebony experience", and "the state of diet cherry coke" to name a few. That doesn't mean I'm going to confuse others by saying, "well I entered the diet cherry coke state, and then I..." I wouldn't do this as a member here, much less as a mod who appears to want to help others... just one man's opinion.
Quote from: Astral316 on April 07, 2011, 10:27:25
For the record I've experienced the 3D Blackness... I believe it because I experienced it, you might say it's a known to me. I could think up a hundred different names for it too... "the really dark place", "the ebony experience", and "the state of diet cherry coke" to name a few. That doesn't mean I'm going to confuse others by saying, "well I entered the diet cherry coke state, and then I..." I wouldn't do this as a member here, much less as a mod who appears to want to help others... just one man's opinion.
Seems like the problem lies in the language I'm using then. :)
For the most part, I do try to keep with using the language that other people understand mostly.
That's why I haven't completely dropped certain terms from my posting like "Out of Body Experience" or "Astral Projection"... even though I completely disagree with their usage. :)
But if it helps... yes, the "PoC" state I talk about is the same as the other things I listed above. Perhaps, for the sake of clarity, I completely agree that I shall just continue to call it Focus 21. Even though I think that "PoC" is probably a better term for it. LoL
Sometimes I wish there weren't so many terms for similar things in this field... it really would help to have a standard term for certain things. hehe
Quote from: Xanth on April 07, 2011, 10:57:05
Seems like the problem lies in the language I'm using then. :)
For the most part, I do try to keep with using the language that other people understand mostly.
That's why I haven't completely dropped certain terms from my posting like "Out of Body Experience" or "Astral Projection"... even though I completely disagree with their usage. :)
But if it helps... yes, the "PoC" state I talk about is the same as the other things I listed above. Perhaps, for the sake of clarity, I completely agree that I shall just continue to call it Focus 21. Even though I think that "PoC" is probably a better term for it. LoL
Sometimes I wish there weren't so many terms for similar things in this field... it really would help to have a standard term for certain things. hehe
Agreed. I wouldn't bother raising the issue if we didn't use the phrase commonly for something else. I actually think 3D Blackness describes the state perfectly. It's one of those terms that you can conceptualize and identify with fairly quickly. :wink:
Hey Xanth, can you reach PoC fairly regularly? How long does it take you during the average successful attempt? Are there any stages you pass through on the way there that you have learned to identify?
I'm completely with A316 on this one. Lets not confuse people. I've been doing this for a while and I was completely baffled. There are many ways to reach FZ. And you can exist as a point of consciousness in states other than FZ. I don't understand the connection. I've never read any Campbell either though. I tried doing a search and all I can come up with is where Xanth was talking about it all over the internet, so I don't know the connection.
I'm not saying it's not valid either, it's just, uh... confusing as s***.
If you go through all of the methods we have to project here, pretty much all of them are some sort of meditation. Basically, you have to focus on something, you have to concentrate. I've told people for years that if they want to get good at it, it's best to hone their mind with concentration exercises, and if they're up to it, visualization exercises. People tend to want to get right to the good stuff. It will always be that way. And some (probably few, but they exist) are just plain naturals and don't have to try hard at all.
Whether you become a point of consciousness or not is something else. If you've done it before, yes, projection will probably be easier because you've had some experience with non-physical states of consciousness. Really, you've already projected. I don't think it has to do with the particulars of that state though. More about existing in a state other than physical.
Regular mediation (if done properly) will definitely help. But it doesn't have to be a "PoC" meditation. Just picturing a pencil in your mind with no intruding thoughts for 10 minutes a day will slowly increase your ability to properly do a projection technique to full success. There are a lot of things you can do. I can't believe I'm saying this again, but for the 4,000th time: what is easy for one person can be hard for another, you just have to get some experience under your belt and find what works for you.