Phasing just a free active imagination meditation ?

[ww]

Hey guys

Am i the only one here who tried the phasing method ending to wonder how one could know if this was more than a pure creation or not ?... How one could collect a proof ?... How one could contact other realms than F2 and to go to F3 or to contact our guides ?


...?

[Xanth]

Hey guys

Am i the only one here who tried the phasing method ending to wonder how one could know if this was more than a pure creation or not ?... How one could collect a proof ?... How one could contact other realms than F2 and to go to F3 or to contact our guides ?


...?

This is the epitome of the problem which everyone who does this stuff runs into eventually... IS WHAT I'M EXPERIENCING REAL!?  OR AM I MAKING IT UP!?

The answer: You can't know.  You'll NEVER know.  This is why the concept of a focus 2 and a focus 3 is absolutely beyond ridiculous.

The question you should be asking yourself isn't if what you're experiencing is real or not... it's: are you gaining any value out of your experiences. 
If it's coming from within you or outside of you doesn't matter.  Ultimately *EVERYTHING* is part of the one consciousness anyway... *LITERALLY*.  You are part of EVERYTHING which you can ever experience.  So if you're part of everything you can experience, then nothing is inside or outside of you.  Everything just *is*.

So... in those phasings you've tried (hopefully successful?), did you experience something which provided some kind of value to your spiritual growth?

[Nameless]

Very well said Xanth. I don't feel a need to add anything. Perfect.

[ww]

This is the epitome of the problem which everyone who does this stuff runs into eventually... IS WHAT I'M EXPERIENCING REAL!?  OR AM I MAKING IT UP!?

The answer: You can't know.  You'll NEVER know.  This is why the concept of a focus 2 and a focus 3 is absolutely beyond ridiculous.

The question you should be asking yourself isn't if what you're experiencing is real or not... it's: are you gaining any value out of your experiences. 
If it's coming from within you or outside of you doesn't matter.  Ultimately *EVERYTHING* is part of the one consciousness anyway... *LITERALLY*.  You are part of EVERYTHING which you can ever experience.  So if you're part of everything you can experience, then nothing is inside or outside of you.  Everything just *is*.

So... in those phasings you've tried (hopefully successful?), did you experience something which provided some kind of value to your spiritual growth?

Thank you for your answer Xanth.

1/ Then you agree to say you dont share the Monroe and F.Keppel's model then ?
2/ Then you agree to say as well that you are practicing this activity for years without knowing if it is just a creative meditation or not ? (no irony here please just candid question)
3/ Then you agree to say as well that remote viewing is not real and can not create reliable proof ?
4/ Therefore without an once of sarcasm either, what is your theory please about what lead Monroe and Keppel to have such delusionals and false insights by saying they contacted F3 and talked to real dead persons and collected proofs and so on ? I mean how do you explain their model and their delusions please ? What is possible to experience or not according to you with this technique then ?

Now i am totally agree with you of course when you say i just need to take whats there is to be taken...

To answer your question about the value i may extract of my phasing experiences, i can not say for sure i wasted my time but very quickly i felt a backclash in my motivation due to the lack of proof but i must admit i am way too impatient person.

[Xanth]

1/ Then you agree to say you dont share the Monroe and F.Keppel's model then ?

They were EXTREMELY useful to me as I was learning about projection.
But now, I've learned that experiences are unique to the experiencer.  As such, you will *NEVER* have their experience of their model of reality.  It's for them and them alone.
You have to find YOUR model.  It could turn out that it's similar, it could turn out to be completely different.

2/ Then you agree to say as well that you are practicing this activity for years without knowing if it is just a creative meditation or not ? (no irony here please just candid question)

It took me well over 10 years of practicing off and on to have what I considered my first successful projection.
After that, the irony hit me that I've actually been projecting my entire life... I just hadn't realized it.
I've been having these "dreams in which I knew I was dreaming" ever since I could remember.
I can tell you for a fact that it's not "just creative meditation".

3/ Then you agree to say as well that remote viewing is not real and can not create reliable proof ?

Remote view is as "real" as projection.  It's a form of projecting.  Instead of bringing your awareness to a 'scene', you bring the 'scene' to your awareness.  That's the only different.  You SEE the scene as if it's a picture you're looking at... while projecting is actually being THERE in full 3D.

4/ Therefore without an ounce of sarcasm either, what is your theory please about what lead Monroe and Keppel to have such delusionals and false insights by saying they contacted F3 and talked to real dead persons and collected proofs and so on ? I mean how do you explain their model and their delusions please ? What is possible to experience or not according to you with this technique then ?

They weren't delusional or false... it's just "HOW THEY" perceived and described their experiences.
What's possible to experience is... whatever you experience.  How you choose to describe that experience to someone else... well, that can be difficult.

To answer your question about the value i may extract of my phasing experiences, i can not say for sure i wasted my time but very quickly i felt a backclash in my motivation due to the lack of proof but i must admit i am way too impatient person.

All I can tell you is that if your sole purpose is to find "proof", then you might as well quit.  This isn't an exercise you do "for others".  This is, and spirituality as a whole, is an exercise for yourself and yourself only.

The irony being that THROUGH this self-exploration, you define yourself in a greater, more loving capacity... the side effect being you bring more Love into your everyday life, because you realize small truths about consciousness and reality as a whole.  Everything is you.  Why would you treat you like crap. 

[ww]

Even with the inherent subjectivity of such practices, lets consider i decide to still be for some time more optimistic than you are in the possibility to achieve a consensus upon the "basic structure" of our experiences.

1/ What would differenciate Phasing from Creative meditation according to you ? Because i did not need to discover Phasing to experience real 3D "visions" during meditation !

2/ If we consider we already collected some proofs on the remote viewing, why then you say "you'll never know" about Phasing ? I dont understand this ?

3/ Now question; " Among those who experienced both OBE and Phasing. Is there a CONSENSUS to confirm this is the same exeprience (except you dont see yourself leaving your body in phasing of course)

Thanks a lot for you kindness Xanth.

[Xanth]

Even with the inherent subjectivity of such practices, lets consider i decide to still be for some time more optimistic than you are in the possibility to achieve a consensus upon the "basic structure" of our experiences.

Mapping the "non-physical" would be a lot easier if it worked on the same rules and limitations as this physical reality, definitely. 

1/ What would differenciate Phasing from Creative meditation according to you ? Because i did not need to discover Phasing to experience real 3D "visions" during meditation !

There probably isn't any difference.  You discovered Phasing. 
It doesn't make much difference what random label you give something. 

2/ If we consider we already collected some proofs on the remote viewing, why then you say "you'll never know" about Phasing ? I dont understand this ?

One of the bad parts about this topic is that opinion varies greatly among the community.  What one person considers "proof" another doesn't.
I personally don't care either way... as *I* have my experiences and that's all that should be important to yourself.

3/ Now question; " Among those who experienced both OBE and Phasing. Is there a CONSENSUS to confirm this is the same exeprience (except you dont see yourself leaving your body in phasing of course)

Nobody can "confirm" it.  I can only speak from my experience (as anyone else can do) and I've come to the conclusion that they're the same.  The only difference being a matter of perspective and belief.

For example, if you have an experience where you go to bed and then you find yourself floating above your bed in your bedroom you'd probably assume you're having an OBE, right?  It's painfully obvious, that you've just left your body and are having an OUT OF BODY experience.  But the reality of the situation goes far beyond simple observation of the situation.  You're NOT out of body, you only BELIEVE you're out of body, which further reinforces that belief.  What you experience is a non-physical representation of what you believe your current surroundings are.  It can be as close to your physical surroundings as you can remember them to be.  This is why it's only a matter of perspective and belief.  Most of the authors these days who write about OBE's have fallen prey to these simplistic observations without actually delving deeper into them.

Mix that with Robert Monroe coining the term OUT OF BODY... and you've got an entire generation of people who have been brainwashed (not on purpose, mind you) to believe that they're beings INSIDE a physical body.  *sigh*

[ww]

[It doesn't make much difference what random label you give something.  [/quote]

Maybe you dont care about label because this practive is still very new and it is just still a bit too fuzzy to determine a commun structure we are not yet able to identify but that we will discover soon who knows...

Any way your theory about the misunderstanding on Monroe "in the body sight" seems obvious and very true.

[Xanth]

[It doesn't make much difference what random label you give something. 

Maybe you dont care about label because this practive is still very new and it is just still a bit too fuzzy to determine a commun structure we are not yet able to identify but that we will discover soon who knows...

Any way your theory about the misunderstanding on Monroe "in the body sight" seems obvious and very true

In his third book, "Ultimate Journeys", he's the one who ultimately figured that out.
By the time he died, he had ended up with a completely different view of projection than when he wrote his first book.
His perspective had changed greatly... the only problem now is that people tend to read his first book first and ignore the discoveries he made by the end of his life.

Hence, we still have people who believe they're "IN" a body.

[ww]

In his third book, "Ultimate Journeys", he's the one who ultimately figured that out.
By the time he died, he had ended up with a completely different view of projection than when he wrote his first book.
His perspective had changed greatly... the only problem now is that people tend to read his first book first and ignore the discoveries he made by the end of his life.

Hence, we still have people who believe they're "IN" a body.

Yeah thats so true. I did the same actually... Read his first book and then discovered here and there his view has changed in the end of this life...

Now i dont know if you read my post about my first OBE but it was stunning... The difference about what i experienced with Phasing is pretty massive. Because here i'm not even wondering if i created it or not because it is sure this was a total spontaneous AND EASY, CRYSTAL CLEAR AND FLUID experience. (of course i dont mention the fact that WHAT composed my OBE might directly taken and created by imagination)

So now i have to dig between the difference of OBE and Phasing.

[ww]

Question to advanced phasers;

1/ I make the "switch" very easily but my sessions which lasts strangely always around 50mn, are a giant RAMBLING succession of small scenes in the sense i never experienced a , lets say 5 or 10mn on the same scene with a long and stable narration...?

2/ Plus i have the obvious feeling i am watching a dream but very rarely dive into it in the first person... or maybe the so called "super 3D vision as crystal clear than physical" is not working for me AT ALL ?...

Thanks for your help

[EscapeVelocity]

1-From my perspective, when I make the "switch", that is the moment I am actually shifting or stepping into the scene. Early on, when I was in a highly relaxed state and trying to phase from a Mind Awake Body Asleep state, I would observe a long rambling succession of small scenes (as you describe) that would gradually give way to longer sequences that would soon gain sharper focus and strengthen to the point that I felt slightly "pulled" into the scene, and this is when I would make the "switch".

Developing this part of our perception is a VERY individual thing, so all I can offer are some suggestions. If the scenes you are witnessing don't slow down, get longer and strengthen, then I wonder if you need to apply some Intent/Intention. Do you already have a destination in mind, where you want to go? A person to meet or find? A defined purpose such as asking for instruction, a lesson or an answer to a particular question?

This can be a point where if you don't have a clearly defined Intent, you remain stuck until you learn how to form the Intent, and possibly the manner to express it. The fact of the randomness of the scenes may indicate that your subconscious is just 'running random footage' because you haven't communicated what you want.

This is one of those times where the experience we get doesn't match up with our expectations. After several unsuccessful attempts, it usually means we need to look elsewhere for the answer and maybe modify our expectation.

2- The scenery appears obviously dreamlike (and self-generated)...This is very possibly true but nonetheless a good insight on your part to have recognized it as such. I would not be surprised if most of our early Phasing scenes are generated almost 100% from our subconscious minds. In my early Phasings, I thought the same thing, but with more experiences, the environments became more refined and with the situations becoming more complex and involved, leading me to re-think the ratio of subconscious versus possibly outside influence and guidance. I am open to other theories, but this is my current thinking, that as my experiences grow, the complexity grows and so does my learning.

Heck, I never wrote about it but my second or third Phasing was into a literal cartoon environment in a jungle scene with cartoon jungle animals. I lasted maybe 3 minutes before I lost the focus, it was so weird, lol.

Set your Intent, pick a scene that is offered to you and focus on it until you learn to slow it down, then let it strengthen, then step in. You're looking for quantity of experiences right now, not necessarily quality. The quality will develop as your awareness develops.

Some key concepts in there to consider.

The easiest Intent may be to visit a place, a person or maybe just ask for 'the best lesson I need at this time' and see what you get. And whatever you get, accept it and go with the flow and follow the experience trusting your instincts to respond correctly; took me awhile to realize that and keep my expectations open. Wide open.

[ww]

Thanks for your message, very interesting.

For me the switch is the moment when your foreground become your background but not necessarily means the moment where one stepping into the scene... maybe some other persons could confirm or infirm our respective views ?

1/ On average, how long do you stay immersed into your scene like your definition of the switch ? Because all my immersions are very short, less than 30s or max 1 minute id say... And each time they happened, i did not do anything or felt any attraction or anything, i just ended immersed without doing anything without witnessing the transition from the 3rd person view to the first person view...

2/ How do you explain i experience always this phase of rambling succession of small scenes without never succeed to step in even during 1hour whereas sometimes i succeed without doing anything (without formulate an intent or anything) to step in in few minutes ? (considering my step in are very short though...)

3/ Sometimes i feel some kind of very delicate, very sensible and strange vibrationss which attracts my attention because sometimes it stops and "his absence appear very weird..." Someone know what i mean here and what it is ? Because moreover the weird thing is i always failed to locate it !

4/ Is it a problem not to have a destination ? Do you know a personal method to go to F3 or RTZ ?

5/ Funny you mention your cartoon based phasing because it happened to me few days ago and was very circumspect about it like you seem to be as it was all made in cartoon texture. Now maybe i have to mention that this was not proper phasing as i did not really step into, i was just witnessing on the screen...

6/ When ypu formulate your intent, when do you do it ? At the beginning of your session or even during the session ?

7/ I used to consider this "phase of rambling succession of small scenes" the stray energy stage Keppel described ? But if i look at my session today i had this stage of rambling succession of small scenes then instantly immersed in one of them few times... So what is your opinion ? Is it the stage Franck describes or not ?

Thanks a lot for you answers guys.

[ww]

Thanks for your message, very interesting.

For me the switch is the moment when your foreground become your background but not necessarily means the moment where one stepping into the scene... maybe some other persons could confirm or infirm our respective views ?

1/ On average, how long do you stay immersed into your scene like your definition of the switch ? Because all my immersions are very short, less than 30s or max 1 minute id say... And each time they happened, i did not do anything or felt any attraction or anything, i just ended immersed without doing anything without witnessing the transition from the 3rd person view to the first person view...

2/ How do you explain i experience always this phase of rambling succession of small scenes without never succeed to step in even during 1hour whereas sometimes i succeed without doing anything (without formulate an intent or anything) to step in in few minutes ? (considering my step in are very short though...)

3/ Sometimes i feel some kind of very delicate, very sensible and strange vibrationss which attracts my attention because sometimes it stops and "his absence appear very weird..." Someone know what i mean here and what it is ? Because moreover the weird thing is i always failed to locate it !

4/ Is it a problem not to have a destination ? Do you know a personal method to go to F3 or RTZ ?

5/ Funny you mention your cartoon based phasing because it happened to me few days ago and was very circumspect about it like you seem to be as it was all made in cartoon texture. Now maybe i have to mention that this was not proper phasing as i did not really step into, i was just witnessing on the screen...

6/ When ypu formulate your intent, when do you do it ? At the beginning of your session or even during the session ?

7/ I used to consider this "phase of rambling succession of small scenes" the stray energy stage Keppel described ? But if i look at my session today i had this stage of rambling succession of small scenes then instantly immersed in one of them few times... So what is your opinion ? Is it the stage Franck describes or not ?

Thanks a lot for you answers guys.

[EscapeVelocity]

1- When I first began observing the progression of visual images from a totally relaxed state on the border of sleep such as you are describing, I also was not able to stay immersed for any length of time, say 30 seconds to 3 minutes. I think several issues may be causing this: One is that your awareness needs to learn to stabilize itself to remain immersed; this includes not being overcome with any number of emotions such as fear, excitement, confusion, distraction and frustration, to name the big five. A second issue is the lack of a properly formed Intent. A third issue may be that without a defined Intent, you must be very open to the new environment and what challenge or lesson it may be presenting you. If you fail to perceive the lesson being presented or insist on looking for something else, then the simulation will end and you get shifted back to the Physical wondering what went wrong.

I think this happens frequently in the beginning because we are being gently guided to first learn the basics as I described above. You may wish to go to the RTZ or Frank's F3, but you are simply not ready for that until you learn the basics. So that's why I say be open for whatever the environment is presenting you. Kurt Leland says that you can literally 'ask' the environment what is expected of you and you should get a reply. I never thought to do that until my Talking to the Hand adventure when I called out to an unseen voice saying that "We may not be ready for this" and got the reply "You will have to do the best you can", lol.

2- I have no way to answer this; only you can. Again see #1.

3- If you are describing the onset of what we refer to as the "vibrations", then this is a possible sign that your Intent to have a RTZ obe is actually working. It may take a few tries, but let the vibrations increase and expand until you feel like a helicopter powering up and lifting out. If not the vibes, then it may be some energy sensations that are nonetheless a sign that something is activating...go with it.

4-Don't think of this in Physical Reality terms. By destination you are referring to Intent. So YES, you need a destination -whether it is a person, place, thing or idea/question to explore. I have my techniques to get to the RTZ or F3, but they won't necessarily work for you right now. Go read the blue stickies on the first three Boards and try any of the dozens of techniques available. You are already well on your way with the tech you are describing so far. Form your Intent then ask for it in your mind and keep the request in mind as you switch into a scene, then go with whatever you get.

6- I generally formulate my Intent before attempting a technique and keep it foremost in my mind. Sometimes an Intent will spring forth spontaneously if I find myself already 'out'.

7- I don't know what the 'stray energy stage that Kepple describes' is...if you read through his Phasing Resource, it explains a lot.