Phasing = WILD?

[nickspry]

It seems to me that phasing is essentially the same technique as what is known in lucid dreaming circles as the WILD (wake induced lucid dream) method. Perhaps the only difference being one of interpretation of the experience itself. Any thoughts?

[mcdwg]

In my experience there are a couple of things I have come across while phasing that have made me beleive a lucid dream and phaising are different.

While phasing I have always had some sort of screen in fron of me, it could be described as a gateway to another dimension, I just thought of crossing it and I was on the other side. Also the environment around me was crystal clear like being in an HD movie while phasing.

In the lucid dreams I've had I just remember recognizing I was in a dream and the environment wasn't as clear.

[Xanth]

It seems to me that phasing is essentially the same technique as what is known in lucid dreaming circles as the WILD (wake induced lucid dream) method. Perhaps the only difference being one of interpretation of the experience itself. Any thoughts?

I was thinking about this very thing the other day.
And I agree... they're the same thing.

~Ryan

[Stookie]

IMO all of this stuff is the exact same thing - different method. Consciousness is an infinite spectrum, and OBEs, AP's, WILD's, LD's, phasing... whatever method it is... is shifting your awareness from physical consciousness to another area in the spectrum. What area that is might be the outcome of the method, but not necessarily. Same with your level of awareness and your perception/interpretation of that area.

[nickspry]

I'd agree with that Stookie, but I was talking purely in terms of technique rather than substance, and these two methods seem identical.

[nickspry]

In the lucid dreams I've had I just remember recognizing I was in a dream and the environment wasn't as clear.

Sounds like you could be referring here to lucid dreams where you became lucid from within the dream rather than directly from the waking state as with WILD/phasing?

[Xanth]

Sounds like you could be referring here to lucid dreams where you became lucid from within the dream rather than directly from the waking state as with WILD/phasing?

That's what I think as well.

There's a clear and definite difference in your conscious awareness, at least for me, between a Lucid Dream and a Projection.

[nickspry]

Yeah, there seems to be a big difference in clarity and awareness...

[Xanth]

Yeah, there seems to be a big difference in clarity and awareness...

I describe the different states like this:
Dreams, Lucid Dreams, and Astral Projections all occur on the same "plane" (for lack of a better word).

Dreams = you having no idea that you're dreaming
Lucid Dream = you knowing that you're dreaming, but you don't have full awareness yet (you lack the ability to self-question yourself and your surroundings)
Astral Projection = you have full awareness of who you are, what you're doing, and where you are.

For anyone who has experienced all three, you should be able to identify with them.

[Tiny]

It seems to me that phasing is essentially the same technique as what is known in lucid dreaming circles as the WILD (wake induced lucid dream) method. Perhaps the only difference being one of interpretation of the experience itself. Any thoughts?

Dear nickspry,

I have made the same observation from watching the dreamviews lucid dreaming forum.

Dreaming=phasing is essentially a form of projection of the mental body where the difference from daydreaming is only in the sense that the practitioner loses all awareness of his/her body.

Astral and etheric projection are much different from mental projection.
The mental body is incredibly refined - much less dense than the astral or etheric body. The difference is like comparing the flexibility of water with that of thin gas. The mental plane can superimpose itself over any other dimension instantaneously.
So no matter if one is active in the physical body, astral body or etheric body, one can have instant mental projections (daydreams) while projections of the astral and etheric body require a lot of focus and take time and are quite sloppy.
There is a reference to this fact in Robert Peterson's book "OBE's how to have them and what to expect" in chapter 20 "The Phantasy Trap".


kind regards,

Paul

[Xanth]

Dear nickspry,

I have made the same observation from watching the dreamviews lucid dreaming forum.

Dreaming=phasing is essentially a form of projection of the mental body where the difference from daydreaming is only in the sense that the practitioner loses all awareness of his/her body.

Astral and etheric projection are much different from mental projection.
The mental body is incredibly refined - much less dense than the astral or etheric body. The difference is like comparing the flexibility of water with that of thin gas. The mental plane can superimpose itself over any other dimension instantaneously.
So no matter if one is active in the physical body, astral body or etheric body, one can have instant mental projections (daydreams) while projections of the astral and etheric body require a lot of focus and take time and are quite sloppy.
There is a reference to this fact in Robert Peterson's book "OBE's how to have them and what to expect" in chapter 20 "The Phantasy Trap".

kind regards,

Paul

All props to Robert Peterson, but I'm surprised he didn't make this particular connection...

I just read his chapter 20 again, and through the two journal entries he made he's CLEARLY just shifting between the three states I mentioned in my above post.

*Dreaming
*Lucid Dreaming
*Projection

He mentions being "semi-conscious"... well yeah, that's called a LUCID DREAM.
When he gave up trying to become conscious again, he dropped back into a normal DREAM.
When he fought and got his full consciousness back, he was back to a PROJECTION.

I don't see why he's confusing the point by calling them all different.  He's confusing himself and his readers...
It sounds like he's trying to make it sound like he's being "forced" into these other states, when in actuality, it's just him losing control of his consciousness.

~Ryan

[Bacterio]

I don't know if the results of WILD and Phasing techniques are different, but I don't think so because the process is the same so I can't Imagine how the results could be different (as long as you don't fall asleep in the middle)...maybe the intention is the only different variable. 

[Tiny]

All props to Robert Peterson, but I'm surprised he didn't make this particular connection...

I just read his chapter 20 again, and through the two journal entries he made he's CLEARLY just shifting between the three states I mentioned in my above post.

*Dreaming
*Lucid Dreaming
*Projection

He mentions being "semi-conscious"... well yeah, that's called a LUCID DREAM.
When he gave up trying to become conscious again, he dropped back into a normal DREAM.
When he fought and got his full consciousness back, he was back to a PROJECTION.

I don't see why he's confusing the point by calling them all different.  He's confusing himself and his readers...
It sounds like he's trying to make it sound like he's being "forced" into these other states, when in actuality, it's just him losing control of his consciousness.

~Ryan

Xanth,

let me tell you this once and for all.

I won't argue with you anymore since all you're interested in is finding justifications for your mindset that is based on wishful thinking, not searching for the facts as you've demonstrated over and over again.



kind regards,

Paul

[Xanth]

I won't argue with you anymore

Who's arguing?  I didn't realize we were.
You stated your opinions and I stated mine.

Where's the arguing?
It's a discussion more than anything.  A civilized conversation.  

since all you're interested in is finding justifications for your mindset

Is that not what you're doing too?  Finding justification for your mindset?
Trying to fit *YOUR* experiences into *YOUR* construct without leaving too many "dangly bits" or "extra parts" leftover?
That's all I'm attempting to do here.

Why are you allowed to do this, but I am not?
Is it because my opinions and beliefs seem contradict yours?

that is based on wishful thinking

No, my opinions are based on my beliefs, which are based on my experiences and other information which I have taken in.
So, what I'm saying is: that is your opinion.  Which you are most welcome to.  

not searching for the facts as you've demonstrated over and over again.

To each their own, I guess.
I'm actually quite happy with how my search for facts has been going over this last month.  Quite happy indeed.
I've come further in these last 4 weeks than I have at any other point along my journey.

I do have a question to you though... if you would please indulge me?  Feel free to PM me the answer if you wish.
You seem to go on the defensive whenever I make a statement of my own beliefs which contradicts yours.

Why is that?

You see, I'm fairly confident in my beliefs... I'll try to answer any question that someone has regarding them to the best of my ability.  I'll also post my point of view regarding something someone has posted... so as to provide the readers here with more than one viewpoint.  Although, my opinion isn't indomitable, obviously... If I happen to be wrong or if someone can provide enough evidence to "sway" my opinion, you can rest assured that will be the case.  

However, I don't *believe* you can say the same.  You feel threatened anytime *ANYONE* posts anything that goes contrary to your beliefs.  Or else you wouldn't lash out in such a manner.

~Ryan

[CFTraveler]

It seems to me that phasing is essentially the same technique as what is known in lucid dreaming circles as the WILD (wake induced lucid dream) method. Perhaps the only difference being one of interpretation of the experience itself. Any thoughts?

Wake-Induced-Lucid-Dream is the same as phasing, regular ol' waking up (becoming lucid) in a dream is not.
Everyone ok?

[cpt. picard]

Not sure what the conflict is over, but I disagree with both of you I guess. I don't believe phasing is a mental projection, it is an astral projection in an astral body on the astral plane. WILD and phasing I would agree are the same technique that leads to the astral, just as a lucid dream could be called a SILD, we are arguing over techniques as if the techniques determine what plane you are. LD, WILD, phasing, all take place in the astral plane in my opinion. I do not see any evidence for your claims either Tiny, you are both stating your opinions according to your mindsets and it looks foolish for you guys to be arguing over this.

[Xanth]

Not sure what the conflict is over

Conflict?  O_o
Has everyone forgotten how to have a civilized discussion? 

but I disagree with both of you I guess. I don't believe phasing is a mental projection, it is an astral projection in an astral body on the astral plane. WILD and phasing I would agree are the same technique that leads to the astral, just as a lucid dream could be called a SILD, we are arguing over techniques as if the techniques determine what plane you are. LD, WILD, phasing, all take place in the astral plane in my opinion. I do not see any evidence for your claims either Tiny, you are both stating your opinions according to your mindsets and it looks foolish for you guys to be arguing over this.

I personally dislike using this old world terminology.

As for techniques... my technique can beat up your technique!! 
How's that for conflict? 

[nickspry]

just as a lucid dream could be called a SILD, we are arguing over techniques as if the techniques determine what plane you are. LD, WILD, phasing, all take place in the astral plane in my opinion.

That may or may not be true, but you only arrive at your destination (wherever or whatever that may be) by applying a technique. Also, a technique applied while dreaming may have very different results to a different technique applied while awake, so in a sense it can determine what "plane"  or "state of consciousness" you are about to experience IMO. So technique is obviously important, and needs to be categorised as accurately as possible if only to avoid confusion and ambiguity.
Seems we can mainly agree though that phasing and WILD are essentially the same thing?....

[cpt. picard]

Well considering I believe astral projection and lucid dreaming both take place in the astral plane, I see no difference between astral phasing and WILDing.