Presence on the onset of projecttion

[Ginny]

quote:Originally posted by ame

Hi Ame,

Sensing others, while attempting to explore the nonphysical (or even while fully conscious and going about one's daily stuff) is actually more common than people realize. For years Bob Monroe was aware of a presence always with him when exploring and eventually discovered they were Guides, others from what he called his I/There, or Higher Self. In the beginning it's natural to be wary, and we understandably end up projecting our own fears onto these 'others', and such fear then comes back to us and causes misunderstanding (thinking they are harmful, etc). I went through the same many years ago.

But what I've learned from exploring the nonphysical is there's a fundmental principle in the works: like attracts like. Our beliefs, fears, desires go with us when we explore and literally color/influence our own interpretations of what we experience. If we believe we can be harmed while There, guess what we attract to us? If we *known* we can't be harmed, well..you get the picture.--:o) There truly is nothing to fear but what our own fear-based-beliefs projections can possibly create...if allowed to.  

You can always offer out an inquisitive, nonjudgemental, "Hello and who are you?" thought, the next time you sense a presence. Perceiving 'hands helping you leave your body' has been a common occurrence through the ages. I'll never forget when I realized, years ago, that who I had initially feared turned out to be a personal Guide with infinite patience (lol)...just waiting for me to come to know who they really were.

Much love,

Ginny

[Brian Hacking]

Great reply Ginny,

I also agree that Like attracts Like,  in fact I think that is the real way Karma works.  You simply attract things and experiences that match your vibrational makeup.  

I personally think that every moment you can decide what you are going to experience.   In other words - Now is the point of power.  People decied how they are going to experience and react in every moment.  Your 'Now' is not dictated by the past.  All that is required is to change your energetic makeup.

Now as to the Astral - we experience many things that are our own creation and misinterperet many other things by projecting our beliefs onto them.  

anyway --  enough rambling...

With Love,
Brian

[Frank]

Fact is, if you project within Astral regions you ARE going to come across all kinds of other people who live there. The chances of misunderstanding exactly what you are getting involved in are pretty high, at first. This is mega-complicated by the fact you are projecting your sense of conscious awareness into a system of reality where Thought equals Direct Action. Which makes it all the more complex to get to grips with.

Yours,
Frank

[ame]

Thanks everyone for replying,

Ginny,

What you said about projecting fear make sense. When I try to continue projecting that day eventhough feeling the presence I do feel that my fear did lessen considerably eventhough there are traces of it remaining.

You said that you've gone through this. Can you tell me about your experience? it seems that in the present moment I feel that I have nothing to fear but when in the projecting stage I'm not really free from it.

I have contemplate on asking the presence only that I'm afraid they would notice me noticing them so I just keep quiet. I guess I need to straighten my belief and fear first. But I don't really know how to. Your experience with your guide sure is interesting. How do you get over your fear of them?

I guess I actually am not very comfortable with the idea of guide as yet. Well higher self I'm ok with but another being? How would I know they are my guide (if there are)?


Brian,

You said about changing energetic makeup (this is the same about raising your vibration I presume?). How do one go about this? Is this process done in the astral or done throughout all our life in the physical also?


Frank,

You said about misunderstanding what we are involved with. How do we minimise this from happening? And how to increasse the objectivity of our experience. I don't want to be clouded by my own belief or fear or personal filter. How do we control our emotion in the astral from influencing what we say? Is this a good practice?



Lately i can't seem to get into the RTZ. When I'm projecting I try to go away from my physical as far as possible without sight and the when I'm able to turn on my sight It's like I'm straight in the astral. I wonder why it is like this.

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by ame

Thanks everyone for replying,
Frank,
You said about misunderstanding what we are involved with. How do we minimise this from happening? And how to increasse the objectivity of our experience. I don't want to be clouded by my own belief or fear or personal filter. How do we control our emotion in the astral from influencing what we say? Is this a good practice?

To help overcome this hurdle, you need to gain a fair degree of understanding about the basic nature of the Astral environment, and the different ground-rules that apply. We have to gain familiarity with these basic rules in much the same way as we have to when first entering the Physical. For example, perhaps the one most basic Physical rule (we gain familiarity with rather quickly!) is that no two physical things can occupy the same physical space.

A person who could not get the hang of this basic Physical rule would repeatedly have difficulties. Not only would they be forever bumping into things, pursuits such as driving a car, for instance, would be nigh-on impossible.

Same thing applies with Astral exploration where, without an understanding of the basic ground rules, people will keep running into difficulties.

One of the main difficulties is presented by the fact that releasing emotions within the Astral environment acts as a kind of fuel that goes to creating the circumstances that surround you. This is a *tricky* one to overcome because these circumstances can seem just as real, and equally as lifelike, as circumstances are within the Physical. So if you release a little fear (very common) you will instantly find yourself in a mildly fearful circumstance.

Problem is, finding yourself all of a sudden in a scary situation will normally have the effect of making you even more fearful. So the situation will instantly become that much more scary; which makes you more scared; so it gets that much more scary; which makes you even more scared; so it gets that much more scary; and so on, and so on.......

If that were not bad enough, there is another basic rule which says, "Your experiences are primarily governed by your expectations." Therefore, if you expect to encounter demons and dragons... then demons and dragons you shall encounter.

But that's not all. There's another basic rule which says, "like instantly attracts like." So it won't only be you having these horrific experiences. Chances are, you'll be surrounded by countless others all suffering the same fate.

Such a group concensus will naturally have the effect of reinforcing your beliefs to a high degree. Bringing into play the basic rule which says, "Your ability to perceive is proportional to your willingness to believe." In other words, the more you believe the Astral is a nasty and dangerous place, the more readily you will perceive it as such.

Bearing all this in mind, you need then to be careful how you go about things. Else all manner of reality fluctuations can come about.

To summarise, then, the basic rules you need to keep in mind are:

1) Thought equals Direct Action.

2) Your experiences are primarily governed by your expectations.

3) Like instantly attracts like.

4) Your ability to perceive is proportional to your willingness to believe.

Even though you may set out armed with this information, chances are you will screw up quite often at first. Not that I'm wishing it on you I'm simply being realistic. If you come across any kind of sticky situation where events are getting out of hand, my advice is to not try and "make it right" within the projection. Simply hop back to Physical, take a few deep breaths and project again.

quote:
Lately i can't seem to get into the RTZ. When I'm projecting I try to go away from my physical as far as possible without sight and the when I'm able to turn on my sight It's like I'm straight in the astral. I wonder why it is like this.

Sounds to me like you are being guided to where all the fun-stuff takes place.

Yours,
Frank




[/quote]

[Bruce Moen]

Ame,

 Fear can be a little tricky.  As we shift our focus of attention to nonphysical realities we are entering a very "plastic" place.  By that I mean that this place is easily molded.  Feeling fear can project our fear outward into this plastic place and our fear can take the form of what we fear.  For example, if we fear meeting a "demon" that fear can take form and appear to be a demon.  If we don't understand that what we are perceiving as a demon is just our own fear being reflectd back to us it's easy to believe there are demons "out there."

 Fortunately there is a simple way to deal with fear and the forms our projection of it can take.  Love and fear cannot be in the same place at the same time.  I'd suggeest that the next time you experience the presence and begin to feel fear, cause yourself to remember the feeling of love to the point of actually re-experiencing it.  Remember a time in your life when you were feeling loved or loving.  Let the memory of that time help you re-experience the feeling of love.  When you can feel it, attempt to open communication with the presence.  I'd suggest you act as if someone is really there and you'd like to communicate with whomever it is.  Ask the presence anything you can think of to learn more about who it is, why it's there, etc.

 You may be in for a pleasant surprise.

Bruce

[Ginny]

quote:Originally posted by ame

Hi Ame,

I started having your classic OOBEs back in the late 80's and this was when I was also feeling 'a presence' nearby, at times. Initially the fear I experienced was at a high level and I'm still amazed I continued exploring {curious minds just gotta know--:o)!}. Over time I began wondering what it was I was really scared of and through continued reading {Bob Monroe's third book helped me a great deal} and experimenting I realized that I seemed to be the creator of it all. Exploring was just naturally showing me I had fears that needed to be dealt with.

It was also at this time, Ame, that I began paying attention to interesting thoughts/ideas coming through, while fully conscious: ideas suggesting how to deal with my fears...or better yet, my fear-based beliefs, the idea being that if I indeed was the creator of or had at least agreed to adopt such beliefs, *I* must be in charge---not the fears and beliefs...and I could change what I no longer needed or wanted, what was literally getting in the way. This realization and subsequent work is what really opened doors to no longer feeling I was at the mercy of *my own stuff*. And it wasn't too long after this that I began perceiving 'the presence' as someone who was loving and a bit of a practical joker.

Since I could never gain control of going OOB and when I started using Bruce Moen's Focused Attention techniques over two years ago, I met the practical joker while in the nonphysical and had a really good laugh (a member of my Higher Self or Disk). And I found that projecting the feeling of love to whomever/whatever caused me concern, while in the nonphysical, seemed to instantly clear up the matter...meaning my own fear-manifestation would be unmasked, so to speak, to reveal who/what was really there. Once while at my Focus 27 park, a man was suddenly there sitting on my park bench. My instant reaction was one of fear...and I was a tad rude as I perceived a semi-hostile look on his face...(lol, forgetting I had asked for someone to come and answer a few questions for me in the first place!). Know what he did? He started to make the type of face that suggested, "Oh yea, I'm the boogey man!"---and then he started laughing! It hit me all at once what my own fear was doing and as soon as I laughed (ahh there's something about humor and belly laughing in the nonphysical that helps us to learn!) his countenance softened, changed right then and there. This was a good lesson for me.

Hope this helps, Ame....and keep exploring. There's really no other way to truly learn about the nonphysical and what being There entails other than...just being There---;o). It's worth it.

Much love,

Ginny

[Ginny]

quote:Originally posted by Brian Hacking

Great reply Ginny,

I also agree that Like attracts Like,  in fact I think that is the real way Karma works.  You simply attract things and experiences that match your vibrational makeup.  

I personally think that every moment you can decide what you are going to experience.   In other words - Now is the point of power.  People decied how they are going to experience and react in every moment.  Your 'Now' is not dictated by the past.  All that is required is to change your energetic makeup.

Now as to the Astral - we experience many things that are our own creation and misinterperet many other things by projecting our beliefs onto them.  

anyway --  enough rambling...

With Love,
Brian

Brian,

I really like what you had to say,----especially: "Your 'Now' is not dictated by the past. All that is required is to change your energetic makeup." Beautiful. Please feel free to 'ramble' often!--:o)

Love,

Ginny

[ame]

Silly me, just last night I was having pre OBE symptom and there I was lying down feeling presence again and being afraid(It's not like I can see anything, I just get scared by the feeling of the presence...) [:I]

quote:To summarise, then, the basic rules you need to keep in mind are:

1) Thought equals Direct Action.
2) Your experiences are primarily governed by your expectations.
3) Like instantly attracts like.
4) Your ability to perceive is proportional to your willingness to believe

Frank: Great one Frank. I always suspect there is somewhat different rule in the astral but never saw any thing as clear and concise as the for point you mention. Hope my control will be better.

My willingness to believe also cause some problem with me in that when something out of my current belief shows itself I have trouble accepting the experience at face value. One time this strange older woman was taking me to a dark place much like tent and she just leave me there in the dark! How could I, being inexperinced projecter not to panic.. heh

I agree that the RTZ is great but the real fun would be in the astral

quote:Fortunately there is a simple way to deal with fear and the forms our projection of it can take. Love and fear cannot be in the same place at the same time. I'd suggeest that the next time you experience the presence and begin to feel fear, cause yourself to remember the feeling of love to the point of actually re-experiencing it. Remember a time in your life when you were feeling loved or loving. Let the memory of that time help you re-experience the feeling of love. When you can feel it, attempt to open communication with the presence. I'd suggest you act as if someone is really there and you'd like to communicate with whomever it is. Ask the presence anything you can think of to learn more about who it is, why it's there, etc.

Bruce: Thanks for your suggestion. It seems to be the most suitable solution here. I will surely try to experience the feeling of love next time in the astral (or in the physical too). All this time I resolve to stop feeling fear while in the physical but when the time come, you know... Substituting fear with love make so much sense.

quote:Exploring was just naturally showing me I had fears that needed to be dealt with.

Ginny: Thank so much Ginny. That one hit right on the nail there. I noticed that I have some fear in me that really need to be deal with. Your experience shows me how to better tackle my issues.

quote:It was also at this time, Ame, that I began paying attention to interesting thoughts/ideas coming through, while fully conscious: ideas suggesting how to deal with my fears...or better yet, my fear-based beliefs, the idea being that if I indeed was the creator of or had at least agreed to adopt such beliefs, *I* must be in charge---not the fears and beliefs...and I could change what I no longer needed or wanted, what was literally getting in the way.

That was most helpful Ginny! I'm still very much using classical method but Focused Attention that Bruce Moen teaches looks very interesting. From what I read you get better control and memory.

I believe what Frank is using right now is something similar to that which is considered phasing.

Thanks a bunch for your all lovely replies!

[Brian Hacking]

Hi Ame,

What I mean by 'energetic makeup' or 'vibratory makeup' is this.

Our energetic makeup consists of the beliefs and emotions we hold, -- about ourselves,  our reality, everything.  If you hold a lot of fear/guilt/love/hate --  that determines what your major emotional energetic is and therfore chooses the 'filter' by which you experience things.

example;  The presence in your room when trying to project.
Right now,  you become afraid of this entity or 'percieved' entity.  It is very real to you.  It is something that,  for some reason, you are afraid of.  You don't really have any evidence about who or what this is yet.  It may very well be a loving guide,  or a passed loved one coming to relay a message or just say hi and pass on some Love.  

When you percieve this other entity,  you attach a fear to it,  so it may be very hard for them to get the messag across or help you,  because whatever they do (for the most part)  will be colored and changed by your filter.  - Kind of like looking at the world through a sheet of green plastic. - the sun appears Blue - colors are shifted etc.  

You will notice that with people who fear 'negs' a lot,  tend to have the most experience with them.  For the most part this is what I think is happening with them.

When I started projecting and percieving the nonphysical reality,  I was taking a kung-fu class and so almost everything I experienced was taking in that light.  I would fight and go to tournaments on the astral.   It took quite a while until I changed MY energetic makeup so I could change what I was experiencing.

During some of these 'tests' that I was going through I discovered something profound (at least to me),  In putting up a defence, and expecting fights,  I attracted (or created) things to 'defend' against.  For a while I was still in this energetc realm.  But there was a difference,  I was no onger 'defending' against attacks.  

In so doing I seemed to go 'out of phase' with the beings in this particular area.   People would puch, kick, and thrust spears and swords at me,  aand they would pass through me harmlessly.  After a while I just stopped experiencing these things altogether.

I would like to bow to Bruce Moen and point to a section on his website that may help you in doing changing your energetic makeup.  I have found this to be an excellent excersise to help in many ways.  It helped me change my major perception blocker --- 'I am not good enough to project and experience the astral.'  to 'I easily experience and percieve the astral,  each time that I do experience the astral I percieve more easily and completely.'

while using this excersise,  ask to speak with the portion of yourself that fears this presence and tallk to it.

you can read all about this excersise on his website at

http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/chngbelf.html

Bruce - It's great to see you here.  I finished your fourth book a couple of weeks ago and am sharing them with my brother.  I look forward to reading more posts of yours.  

Ginny - Thanks for the great comment,  I have been trying to 'live up to' what my 'guides' have been trying to tell me for quite some time.  That I DO have things to share that other people will find valuable.   I am just now starting to relax about 'being good enough'  to just open my mouth and speak what I feel and percieve.  In so doing I find that I am recieving 'rotes' pertaining to the subject at hand.  It's quite an odd thing for me to do so consiously.


Talk to you later.

With Love,
Brian

[Ginny]

quote:Originally posted by Brian Hacking

Brian,

What you have to share is of great value as far as I'm concerned. Fear, fear-based beliefs--understanding where all of this comes from and the fact that it can be changed is important for all to know.
Would enjoy seeing you at Bruce's conversation board.

Thanks again and love,

Ginny

[goingslow]

these are all interesting theories.  But in the end thats all they are..

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by ame


To summarise, then, the basic rules you need to keep in mind are:

1) Thought equals Direct Action.
2) Your experiences are primarily governed by your expectations.
3) Like instantly attracts like.
4) Your ability to perceive is proportional to your willingness to believe

Frank: Great one Frank. I always suspect there is somewhat different rule in the astral but never saw any thing as clear and concise as the for point you mention. Hope my control will be better.

Ame: Technically, all the above apply to a certain degree on the Physical plane too. It's just that, on the Physical, our physical body buffers our thoughts to a high degree.

For example, you could say that all physical action comes about through thought. In the sense that you might think about visiting a friend, and so you go and see them. The difference, however, is the fact that you can "think" about visiting that friend all you like... but unless you actually physically transport yourself to them, then you remain where you are. However, within the Astral just the thought of being at some place or experiencing some circumstance, is all it takes for you to manifest at that place, or experience that circumstance.

A big stumbling block is generally presented when a person first begins to consciously project their focal point of awareness within the Astral. The problem is the fact that, when we project, we don't suddenly develop some super-sense of conscious awareness all primed and geared for Astral use. The sense of conscious awareness you take with you to the Astral, is the exact same one you have now.

Which means there is a strong tendency to automatically judge circumstances or situations in very much the same way you would if you were on the Physical. It's a very common condition that I call Astral Anthropomorphism.

Like, where you said you were led to a tent and left in the dark. Problem is, light and dark can have entirely different meanings within the Astral. Darkness, on the Physical, normally means lack of light. Whether that be daylight or artificial light. However, darkness, within the Astral, can very often signify lack of understanding (which is generally linked to the formation of doubts).

Obviously, I cannot say for certain: but it could well have been the case that your awareness either was, or became dulled through lack of understanding as to what was going on. When this happens everything tends to go dark.

Often you can still perceive the Astral circumstances around you, but they become similar to shadows on the Physical. This still happens to me I'd say at least once every 3 or 4 projections. At first it was very confusing. I found, however, that if I think of taking a few deep breaths (not that there is any need to breathe on the Astral, but that's the way I think of it) my awareness, more often than not, will become clear again. In other words, it's like someone just switched the lights back on.

As I breathe in, I imagine myself taking on-board all the necessary understanding: to the extent where I can become open to the experience which is being presented. As I breath out, I imagine releasing any niggling fears, doubts or whatever other confusion, which is causing my awareness to be dulled.

You see, this darkness is *very* common when being introduced to new circumstances. Remember, your ability to perceive is directly proportional to your willingness to believe.

It is very natural for people to experience doubts *particularly* when either coming across, or being introduced to, new circumstances. Doubt obviously affects your willingness to believe which, in turn, affects your ability to perceive. The way in which your ability to perceive can be commonly affected is that the circumstance can appear to go out of focus, or, as explained above, it's like someone turned down the lights.  

So whenever you come across "darkness" if you can, try getting to the habit of becoming more open to the circumstance. You can do this by taking a step back, taking a few deep breaths while asking for more clarity, or for more understanding (or for more of whatever it is you feel you need). Then approach the circumstance again.

Sometimes you find you have to persevere quite a bit before the circumstance reveals itself, and other times it may all come clear the first attempt or two. Though don't be surprised if you now and again come across circumstances which only come clear over a number months, or even years.

Yours,
Frank

[ame]

Brian: Thanks for clearing about energetic makeup. I'm going to practice the changing belief exercise at Bruce Moen website.

Ginny: Your retrieval experience are great read. I'm looking forward for more of them.

Frank: You're right. That also applies to the physical but to a somewhat lesser degree. The darkness that I see sometime is not total but it is like you much like you describe. I can see the outline or shadow of the object around me but cannot make out what they are. I'll try the brething technique.

I've read somewhere that you would  love to suffer from sleep paralysis? How could it help? How can it help projection? Is it to achieve 3D blackness? I ask this because I always have this from time to time. When I was younger and clueless about OBE they always spook me to no end. This sometime accompanied  by inner body experience (not always). Sometime my hand goes through the bed with strange sensation or my eyes giving strange camera shutter like view, not to mention the ringing and other OBE experience. This might also explain my recurring dream of falling into the sea from great height and deafening train.

Sigh..  if only i was wiser then.  

[cainam_nazier]

"Sigh.. if only i was wiser then."

That is exactly why some of us would not mind sleep paralysis too much now.  I am one who would welcome it.  Because we know what we know now we see it as a perfect point for meditation and projection.  It is far easier to meditate in this state because the body is in such a deep level of relaxation with the mind almost if not fully awake.  I have only been in this state once that I can remember and because of the way I ended up there I was unable to fully use the time I had.  But in this state you have virtually no feeling in the body at all, it simply doesn't respond to commands, so in this state it would be easy to forget that its there and focus on other things.

[Frank]

What people call sleep paralysis, is the beginning stage of an obe. The last big hurdle I still have to overcome is getting to that beginning stage. Often it takes me an hour or more (and sometimes two) to get to that stage. Once I'm there, however, it's projection-city.

Now and again I come across a person who complains about being plagued by sleep paralysis, and what can they do to get rid of it. Oh how I wish it were something that could go in the mail.

Yours,
Frank

[Ginny]

quote:Originally posted by goingslow

these are all interesting theories.  But in the end thats all they are..

Goingslow,

Unless one is speaking from direct experience of being in the nonphysical.

Take care,

Ginny

[Ginny]

quote:Originally posted by ame

Brian:
Ginny: Your retrieval experience are great read. I'm looking forward for more of them.

Thanks, Ame. I'll keep posting them.---:o)

Much love,

Ginny

[ame]

Sometime when I try to attempt projection I experience the presence of some 'thing' in my room. This is not always the case however. But nonetheless whenever I feel like that it always kinda make me wary and many potential projection are ruined.

By the way this always happens on the onset of projection (well, for me anyway as I usually abort projection when this happens).  I have try to be bold and just this morning I was trying projection then getting paralyse, vibration (rare for me), ringing etc. But at the same time I feel something in my room. This time I decide to be more fearless so I just when on. My fear did subside but I can still feel the presence anyhow. After sometime mantaining the vibration I have problem breathing and decide to end my attempt. With that the feeling of the presence vanishes.

Also one time I'm stuck in my body so I decide to call for help. And lo and behold come two hand grabbing my upper arm trying to pull me out(the hand doesn't feel physical more like etherial). Needless to say I'm startled and said in my mind, excrement, what have I done, mentally screaming no, then I feel the two hand let go.

I don't know what happen. Could it be that I'm hallucinating, or scared by my own self or could there be something is really there. anyone ever called for help to get out?

Your comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks.