Hi
I would like to ask a question concerning Frank's noticing exercise.
During the exercise, with closed eyes one should passively observe the 'darkness' in front. While doing so, sometimes my vision goes a bit blurry. (I perceive the images/ light patterns less clearly than before). When this happens, in most cases, I do not bother about it. After a short time, due to the fact that I observe these images with mild curiosity, my vision becomes clearer automatically.
However, sometimes, I deliberately 'readjust' my focus (this time its not like the automatic process mentioned above). I am doing this 'readjustment' with minimal effort, and I do not focus directly on the images. This feels natural to me and this readjustment is more like a semi-automatic process, since the mild curiosity, with which I observe the images, 'prompt' me to readjust my focus so as to see them more clearly.
Can anyone tell me? Is it all right if I do the 'noticing' exercise this way? (even if the 'readjustment' mentioned above can happen several times during my session)
Thanks for the help
You're doing fine. We all have to deliberately "refocus" or risk falling asleep before we can phase. As we get caught up in the noticing, we can easily just fall asleep so we have to deliberately snap ourselves out of it and refocus again. I believe most people call this anchoring.
Sometimes, my vision goes blurrier not because that my mind wanders or I begin falling asleep. I just simply begin to perceive the imagery behind my closed eyes less clearly than before (I can still perceive them to a certain degree), while my mind remains equally concentrated on the images (as if they were the object of my meditation).
When this happens, can I deliberately (but gently) 'readjust' my focus or 'leave it like that' (not readjusting my focus)?
I believe either 'readjusting' focus or not is a valid way of doing the practice. As for me, in most cases, (due the mild curiosity, with which I observe the images) I tend to opt for the readjustment (this feels more natural). However, sometimes, when my vision goes blurrier than before, I jut 'leave it like that' and continue observing that way.
Thanks for the help.
There's a key point that many of us mention but is ignored or looked past and it is that everyone should do what feels natural or easy even if it goes against some common advice. I say this because if something is perceived to be a problem then it is definitely going to hinder your progress even if it may seem counter productive. For instance, many people recommend trying to ignore an itch as much as possible. I always scratch an itch when it comes along and shift my body when needed because I never knew that it was considered a problem. Dwelling on an itch is far more disrupting then just scratching it and moving on.
So if you need to refocus because the blurriness is disrupting then by all means, do it. It's better to do something and get it over with then it is to spend five minutes fighting something and then giving in to it in the end anyways. That's not to say that there isn't a benefit to seeing how much you can block out and resist certain urges but patience will come as a reward anyways.
So I recommend doing whatever it is that you think will help you. No two of us are alike and our guidelines are only that. I learned to phase with very little reading or outside help so I probably do many things that most people find disrupting but I never viewed it like that so they were never a problem.
Good luck.
Quote from: its_all_bad on June 21, 2013, 16:12:28
There's a key point that many of us mention but is ignored or looked past and it is that everyone should do what feels natural or easy even if it goes against some common advice. I say this because if something is perceived to be a problem then it is definitely going to hinder your progress even if it may seem counter productive. For instance, many people recommend trying to ignore an itch as much as possible. I always scratch an itch when it comes along and shift my body when needed because I never knew that it was considered a problem. Dwelling on an itch is far more disrupting then just scratching it and moving on.
So if you need to refocus because the blurriness is disrupting then by all means, do it. It's better to do something and get it over with then it is to spend five minutes fighting something and then giving in to it in the end anyways. That's not to say that there isn't a benefit to seeing how much you can block out and resist certain urges but patience will come as a reward anyways.
So I recommend doing whatever it is that you think will help you. No two of us are alike and our guidelines are only that. I learned to phase with very little reading or outside help so I probably do many things that most people find disrupting but I never viewed it like that so they were never a problem.
Good luck.
This is about the best advice you'll ever get in regards to projection techniques.
Great advice IAB. :)
QuoteThis is about the best advice you'll ever get in regards to projection techniques.
Great advice IAB.
Thank you but the credit belongs to the Pulse.
Thanks for the advice.
I was worried that this regular (sometimes, can happen in every 2-3 mins) 'readjusting' of my focus (even if I do it gently and naturally) might prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states. (I can not test it myself, since I am unable to reach 'deeper' states (or carry out a successful phasing), which could 'validate' this method.)
Is it all right to regularly 'readjust' my focus (even if, there are times when I do it in every 2-3 mins), whenever my vision goes blurry or I feel that I do not perceive them clear enough?
((This 'readjusting' means that I just try to see whats in front of my closed eyes a bit more clearly. If this 'intention' does not 'readjusts' my focus automatically, I do not force it too much. In addition, I only do it, when I feel that I perceive the images less clearly than usual. Otherwise, I just simply observe them in a natural manner, and apply only a minimal effort to see whats in front of my closed eyes. In other words, I do not try to force myself to see these images as clearly as possible.))
Quote from: gil-galad on June 26, 2013, 06:11:34
Thanks for the advice.
I was worried that this regular (sometimes, can happen in every 2-3 mins) 'readjusting' of my focus (even if I do it gently and naturally) might prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states. (I can not test it myself, since I am unable to reach 'deeper' states (or carry out a successful phasing), which could 'validate' this method.)
Is it all right to regularly 'readjust' my focus (even if, there are times when I do it in every 2-3 mins), whenever my vision goes blurry or I feel that I do not perceive them clear enough?
((This 'readjusting' means that I just try to see whats in front of my closed eyes a bit more clearly. If this 'intention' does not 'readjusts' my focus automatically, I do not force it too much. In addition, I only do it, when I feel that I perceive the images less clearly than usual. Otherwise, I just simply observe them in a natural manner, and apply only a minimal effort to see whats in front of my closed eyes. In other words, I do not try to force myself to see these images as clearly as possible.))
One of the best things you'll ever learn is this:
STOP WORRYING. :)
This goes for *everything*. Physical... metaphysical... everything. Stop worrying and just "do". :)
Yes, you sound like you are doing fine. I'd start
Have you been able to reach a mind awake/body asleep (F10) stage easily yet?
Cheers,
Contenteo
"Have you been able to reach a mind awake/body asleep (F10) stage easily yet?"
Not really. I used to be able to reach a stage, where I experienced some hypnagogic imagery. However, I could not maintain it longer, and usually either fallen asleep completely or ended up in a dream scene (while remaining fairly lucid). I don't like Lucid dreams, since I always wake up from them quickly, no matter what technique I use to prevent the awakening. Therefore, I decided to remain more conscious throughout my phasing, and try not to drift into sleep so easily. Since then, I have only experienced mild meditative states (accompanied by certain energetic sensations or slight body numbness), but I have not been able to consciously reach F10. (mind awake/body asleep)
Quote from: Xanth on June 26, 2013, 21:59:19
One of the best things you'll ever learn is this:
STOP WORRYING. :)
This goes for *everything*. Physical... metaphysical... everything. Stop worrying and just "do". :)
Can't agree more. I try to help people realize that worrying is pointless. So many people worry about things, even things completely out of their control. Worrying will only hinder our quality of life and it accomplishes absolutely nothing. All you have to do is realize that and your worries will melt away :)
I have found that, if I readjust my focus too often (maybe in every 2 mins), it prevents me from reaching 'deeper' states. Therefore, I have decided not to readjust my focus each and every time when I feel that my perception of the images (behind my closed eyes) is less clear than usual.
In the beginning, I close my eyes and apply only a minimal effort to see what's in front of me. I do not try to force myself to see these images as clearly as possible, even if this sometimes means that I can hardly see what's in front of my closed eyes. (this is due of the fact that the clarity of my perception (of the images) can vary greatly)
During the practice, I sometimes feel that I have begun to perceive the images less clearly than before (or I perceive them less clearly than usual). When this happens, I do either of the following:
1, When I feel that my vision has become 'blurrier' than usual, I do not react to it and continue doing the exercise that way. This entails that, sometimes, for longer periods, I can hardly see what's going on in front of my closed eyes.
2, I try to deliberately, but gently readjust my focus. If this minimal effort is not enough to see the images clearly again, I just 'leave it like that' and continue observing the 'screen' in front of my closed eyes. However, I try to limit the number of these 'readjustments' as much as possible (maybe no more than once in every 10 mins), since I have found that, if I do it too often, it can prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states.
Can anyone tell me if the above mentioned method is appropriate for 'noticing' exercise?
((I know that I could use a 'trial an error' method to decide if the above technique works. However, I can not test it myself, since I am unable to reach 'deeper' states (or carry out a successful phasing), which could 'validate' this method.))
Thanks
Quote from: gil-galad on July 14, 2013, 09:09:39
I have found that, if I readjust my focus too often (maybe in every 2 mins), it prevents me from reaching 'deeper' states. Therefore, I have decided not to readjust my focus each and every time when I feel that my perception of the images (behind my closed eyes) is less clear than usual.
That's correct. Just allow to happen whatever happens. No need to refocus... it's part of learning to allow everything to be as it is. :)
QuoteCan anyone tell me if the above mentioned method is appropriate for 'noticing' exercise?
((I know that I could use a 'trial an error' method to decide if the above technique works. However, I can not test it myself, since I am unable to reach 'deeper' states (or carry out a successful phasing), which could 'validate' this method.))
There's no right or wrong.
Keep doing what you're doing. If it works, then continue... if it doesn't, try something else. :)
To me, it seems like you are questioning the process too much instead of just allowing it to happen. It's really not important if the images that you are seeing are blurry or if they're crystal clear. If you were just observing and not trying to control the clarity, you might get "there" before you even realize it.
If you want to jump into the water, all you have to do is jump off the platform and let gravity take over. You don't have to keep thinking about falling in the water in order for it to happen. Nothing you do will make your dive stop so you just allow your descent to happen. This is a poor analogy but I'm trying to help you see that your getting in the way of something that will happen on it's own so long as you jump.
Good luck.
"That's correct. Just allow to happen whatever happens. No need to refocus... it's part of learning to allow everything to be as it is."
Is it still all right (or does not prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states) if I gently readjust my focus from time to time (I only do it rarely)?
(I believe this 'readjusting of focus' hinders the practice only when one does it too frequently or deliberately forces it too much)
I would rather stick with doing this way, since it feels more natural. Sometimes, when my vision goes blurry, I just feel 'compelled' to readjust it. I feel an intention to see the 'images' more clearly, then I gently readjust my focus. I only do this rarely and I do not force it. In addition, this 'readjusting' is more like a 'semi-automatic' process. I hope this does not prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states.
Contenteo has a great technique where he visualizes, then allows his picture to become blurry again. He repeats this process over and over again, until he hits F12. It works rather well.
F12, for people that aren't familiar with that term, is a deep Astral focus where you find yourself deep in the void.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/the_steps_to_success_in_your_first_projections-t33998.0.html
I am terrible with any exercise requiring some form of visualization. For instance, I have tried the 'rundown' method in 'phasing' (where one creates a imaginary scene while drifting towards the sleep state). However, I have found this 'creative' visualization exceedingly difficult, and I gave up after a while.
That's why, when I (try) to 'phase', I usually choose the 'noticing' method, where I simply close my eyes and observe the blackness in front. I would rather stick with this method, and the only thing which worries me concerning the act of 'noticing' is if I can occasionally (gently) readjust my focus.
Is it still all right (or does not prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states) if I gently readjust my focus from time to time (I only do it rarely)?
(I believe this 'readjusting of focus' hinders the practice only when one does it too frequently or deliberately forces it too much)
Quote from: gil-galad on July 16, 2013, 12:59:43
Is it still all right (or does not prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states) if I gently readjust my focus from time to time (I only do it rarely)?
(I believe this 'readjusting of focus' hinders the practice only when one does it too frequently or deliberately forces it too much)
If you read Contenteo's post here, he talks about focusing, then losing that focus as his actual technique.
It's further down the page so you need to read more than just the opening.
Try visualizing a orange or a ball or just a light in your hand, you will see it will either morph into something else, or just completely fade away.
When it does bring it back, rinse and repeat.
Remember that mosquito that bit you last week. When you remember it, you briefly get a mental image of it as well. Well, that is visualizing. Look at your computer for 2 minutes. Get a mental picture of it.
Now close your eyes and see it there. That's visualizing. Everyone can visualize. It's just when you say you try to, it doesn't happen. Don't "try", DO.
After about 10 minutes of doing this you will find yourself deep in the F12 area that he talks about.
Quote from: Lionheart on July 16, 2013, 18:13:33
If you read Contenteo's post here, he talks about focusing, then losing that focus as his actual technique.
wow... never noticed that. I say exactly the same thing.. that it's the mind wandering off the focus and being noticed that causes the 'shift'. If that's what he means.
Quote from: Bedeekin on July 16, 2013, 21:42:53
wow... never noticed that. I say exactly the same thing.. that it's the mind wandering off the focus and being noticed that causes the 'shift'. If that's what he means.
I think it is what he means. We have talked often and compare notes once in awhile.
We basically use the exact same technique.
I notice that when you let that image/visual fade away, that the next time it comes back, which it usually does, it will be far more vivid. But, in the mean time, you have noticed that something is different.
You have spent all that time creating and noticing, while your reality was already shifting around you.
The creating and noticing was just there as something to do, kind of like a time filler, while you awaited the shift.
As I see it, Contenteo's post describes a kind of 'rundown' method for phasing. In contrast, I am practicing 'noticing', where one simply observes the naturally emerging light patterns. I am not sure, if the 'loosing of focus' or 'blurring of vision' should be handled in a similar manner in both of the aforementioned methods.
QuoteIf you read Contenteo's post here, he talks about focusing, then losing that focus as his actual technique.
I believe, what he means under 'loosing focus' is when one momentarily ceases to visualize/hold out the created image/scene of the 'rundown' scenario. Whereas, concerning 'noticing', its just that I began to perceive the naturally occurring images/light patterns less clearly than usual. I perfectly agree with the fact that, concerning 'rundown', when 'loosing focus', one needs to return to the imagined scenario. However, I am not entirely sure how to deal with the aforementioned 'blurriness' of vision when doing the 'noticing' exercise.
That is what the question in my prev posts referred to:
When my vision becomes less clear, Is it still all right (or does not prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states) if I gently readjust my focus from time to time? (I only do this rarely, and often, when my vision goes blurry, I jut leave it like that, and continue that way)?
(I believe this 'readjusting of focus' hinders the practice only when one does it too frequently or deliberately forces it too much)
Quote from: Lionheart on July 17, 2013, 02:13:33
I think it is what he means. We have talked often and compare notes once in awhile.
We basically use the exact same technique.
I notice that when you let that image/visual fade away, that the next time it comes back, which it usually does, it will be far more vivid. But, in the mean time, you have noticed that something is different.
You have spent all that time creating and noticing, while your reality was already shifting around you.
The creating and noticing was just there as something to do, kind of like a time filler, while you awaited the shift.
It almost reminds me of nodding off on a car journey... or during a lecture. That sudden 'start' one gets when they realise they were falling asleep... like a jolt of 'and return'. But instead of waking up after realising you were veering away you 'wake up' in another sense.
Gil-gilad, this is the section I was speaking of. There is no rundown being performed here.
"STEP 3 - Disconnect your hearing and visual senses
Now that you are "in yourself", we have to work on disconnecting those other senses. Since we can't do it actively without thinking about our senses, we must proceed in a passive manner; visualize like I describe previously in my initial post. Just picture yourself doing something. Right now you still are in waking state, so it is pretty much the same concept as day-dreaming. Continue persistent visualization as you will continually keep losing focus. Visualize. Accidentally lose focus. Start visualizing again. Accidentally lose focus. Start visualizing again. Accidentally lose focus. Start visualizing again. Accidentally lose focus. Start visualizing again. Accidentally lose focus. Start visualizing again. Accidentally lose focus. Start visualizing again. Accidentally lose focus. Start visualizing again. Accidentally lose focus. Start visualizing again. Accidentally lose focus. Start visualizing again. Unless its a good night, that it usually around many it takes to achieve success. No matter what you sense, ignore the physical and KEEP VISUALIZING. You will pass all the milestones, but if you focus on them, you will mess with the process and may, in worse (and for me, most) case scenarios, need to shake it off and start from the beginning. A little willpower to keep persistent visualization goes a long way here."
QuoteGil-gilad, this is the section I was speaking of. There is no rundown being performed here.
Yes you are right, its not about a 'rundown' exercise.
As Contenteo also says, in this state, one already 'inside' oneself (as he describes it in step 1,2). I believe, this state is something close to F12. Whereas, in my post, I referred to the more initial stage of 'noticing' exercise, while both your mind and body still are reasonably 'awake'. In this state, I tend to experience random simple light patterns, which sometimes become more blurry.
In addition, Contenteo's method still involves some form of creative/active visualization. I believe, when he says 'loosing focus', he means that he momentarily ceases/snaps out of this visualization; and 'refocusing' means that he returns to his visualized scene. In contrast, in noticing, I just simply observe the automatically appearing images. While this happens, sometimes, I began to perceive these images/light patterns less clearly (its not the same as the 'loosing of focus' in Contenteo's post). When this happens, I either 'refocus' (with a gentle effort, try to see them more clearly again), or do not react and continue observing that way. The question in my prev posts was that whether my 'handling of this occasional 'blurriness' (of vision) is suitable for the 'noticing' exercise or not.
(I believe the 'readjusting of focus' (within the above mentioned circumstances) hinders the practice only when one does it too frequently or deliberately forces it too much. In addition, I only do this readjusting rarely, and in most cases I choose not to react to this 'blurring of vision')