Imagination in the Astral

[The Present Moment]

Is there a difference between imagining and manifesting in the astral -- are we using the same force to manifest an apple in our hand as we do when picturing an apple in the mind's eye?

For example, while having a lucid dream I briefly imagined a mountain stream which a character was describing. Was there anything stopping me from jumping into the water that I pictured, besides my belief that it was imagined?

I'd also like to know how imagination works in F3.

[MisterJingo]

I've found imagination to be pretty much the creative force.
I can't remember the exact words, but an author who had been trained hermetically and could AP at will said he tells his students that astral projection is just influenced by imagination, it actually is just imagination. He said most seemed to take offence at this at first (thinking he meant the reality of AP was just imagination). His reply to this was we don't actually know what imagination is.

Edit:

The author is JH Brennan. In some of his books on ritual magick it becomes clear almost immediately that imagination seems to drive this area too.

[Selski]

I briefly imagined a mountain stream which a character was describing. Was there anything stopping me from jumping into the water that I pictured, besides my belief that it was imagined?

Interesting.  I think belief plays quite a big part too.  If you believed that the water was really there, then I guess you could have jumped into it.  However, if you'd had any doubts that there was an actual stream, you may have gone straight through the "water".  I don't know though.  Shame you didn't jump!  

Based on my experiences, generally speaking imagination/thoughts play a big part, as does belief.  There are exceptions though.  For instance, I know for a fact that I can go through walls during an OBE, simply because I've done it dozens of times.  However, sometimes I can't do it.

Funnily enough, I was trying to create apples quite recently during an OBE.  I was sat on the end of the bed at 3am (or so) willing an apple into my hand.  I believed it would work.  It didn't.   :confused:

I'd also like to know how imagination works in F3.

Again based on my (few) experiences with F3, imagination has less (if any) influence on the surroundings.  But I'm not very experienced with F3 so I might be wrong.

I need another 40-odd years experience before I can really answer these questions with any confidence!  

Sarah

[The Present Moment]

I've found imagination to be pretty much the creative force.
I can't remember the exact words, but an author who had been trained hermetically and could AP at will said he tells his students that astral projection is just influenced by imagination, it actually is just imagination. He said most seemed to take offence at this at first (thinking he meant the reality of AP was just imagination). His reply to this was we don't actually know what imagination is.

Edit:

The author is JH Brennan. In some of his books on ritual magick it becomes clear almost immediately that imagination seems to drive this area too.

What's striking is how utilizing the imagination can be simultaneously effortless and difficult. In my next LD I'm going to try to imagine rather than manifest objects in the environment; it may be a matter of semantics, but the all-important beliefs behind the two words are very different for me.

[The Present Moment]

Selski:

The stream would have felt the same to me if I pictured it in F1 -- I didn't believe I could interact with it. Next time I'll be sure to give it a try.

What I was curious to know about F3, is if the imagination works the same as it does in F1?