Robert Monroe - All other models too

[Xanth]

So I'm currently re-reading Robert Monroe's third (and final) book, "Ultimate Journeys" for a third time.
Each time I read it, I gain a bit more understanding because I understand more due to having a bit more knowledge.

But my question right now is... belief plays a big part in our non-physical travels, and I'm left sitting here wondering if *EVERYTHING* Robert Monroe experienced in his non-physical adventures only happened due to his own beliefs? 

I personally don't believe so, but I figured I'd toss that question out there to, maybe, prompt some discussion on the topic of projections and our beliefs on the subject. 

This isn't limited to just Monroe's body of work. 

[LightBeam]

Not everything. But a large part is related to beliefs, because they are the creative force after all.
Why not everything. Because I have observed many similarities of various projector's accounts and experiences. So, it looks like there ARE some established NP rules if you will. For example, I have experienced and have heard from other projectors that if we end up in a place established by a large community of NP beings, that place has to look certain way and things can be changed only by mutual agreement of all occupants. I was in a mediaeval looking town once with a castle and a courtyard, people living there, going about their business, they have chosen to create such environment in the NP for whatever reason and have created the environment to look certain way. I tried to change something on the castle architecture an immediately found myself in a field outside of the town. I was kicked out of the town by some energy restrictions I guess.

But overall expectations of the character who is observing the NP strongly influences the experience. People who believe in evil will create it and interact. I don't, so I have never in 20+ years and thousands of APs encountered negativity. My vision of the multiverse if all beauty and love and my experiences are pleasantly adventurous and exciting. 
What I DO Know though is that the multiverse has everything that can ever be thought by any point of consciousness. So, is there a hell, is there a devil. Yes, but it was created by those who want to experience such things. They are not existing by origin. Only God (All That IS) is the originator of the creative energy. The separate points of consciousness choose to create after that whatever they think is needed to learn and grow. So, yes the multiverse contains it all, but the question is what each of us as fragmented points of consciousness believe to be aligned with. Which part of the multiverse? The good, the bad, the ugly? Because it's all there, but where do we want to go. Who do we thing we are? Our experiences physicals and non-physical are reflections of who we think we are. Now, who we THINK we are is actually very limited by the limitation of each character. Who we truly are is something characters have chosen not to remember for learning purposes. Therefore, who each of us THINK we are is just the character portion and based on that perception of us our environment is created. Our oversoul (larger being) contains all knowledge. IF we understand that, our fragmented character can draw from it and experience another level of physical and NP experiences. At the end, everyone is exactly where they need to be at the present moment and it is strictly related to learning needs.

Sorry, I branched off a little from the original topic 

[Xanth]

For example, I have experienced and have heard from other projectors that if we end up in a place established by a large community of NP beings, that place has to look certain way and things can be changed only by mutual agreement of all occupants.

Sorry, I read this and immediately thought... "aren't you describing HERE?" - this reality, or the functionality of how HERE comes to be in the manner which it is? 

I need to read the rest of your post...

I'm gonna go out of order here for a minute.

Sorry, I branched off a little from the original topic 

Not one bit.    You're actually very much on topic.

At the end, everyone is exactly where they need to be at the present moment and it is strictly related to learning needs.

The last couple years, I've been a bit lost on my path - but I've been feeling the nagging need to re-read Monroe's third book.  So much has happened in this world recently which finally gave me not just the time, but the desire and determination to actually read it again.  I feel like I've been led to this point.

Everything from the Astral Pulse almost completely falling apart to it now being renewed and shiny again... to finding certain threads here which have been here for several year now, but have finally entered my realm of understanding... to finally reading this book.  The first two reads, I really didn't understand most of it, but now I'm getting such feelings of... well, I cannot even describe it right now, just can't find the words yet.

Therefore, who each of us THINK we are is just the character portion and based on that perception of us our environment is created. Our oversoul (larger being) contains all knowledge. IF we understand that, our fragmented character can draw from it and experience another level of physical and NP experiences.

This actually resonates beautifully with what I was just reading in Monroe's book.  I just got through Chapter 15, where he finds his "basic" and the "emitter" - the generator of the hologram which is this universe.

I was in a mediaeval looking town once with a castle and a courtyard, people living there, going about their business, they have chosen to create such environment in the NP for whatever reason and have created the environment to look certain way. I tried to change something on the castle architecture an immediately found myself in a field outside of the town. I was kicked out of the town by some energy restrictions I guess.

haha you went against the consensus.  For some reason, the result of what happened to you there - feels wrong to me. 

I may not have my "basic", but I feel I'm slowly getting to the concept of figuring out the direction.

I stopped projecting for a very VERY long time.  Yeah, I've had spontaneous projections now and then, but for the most part, I STOPPED actively projecting.  Now I feel the desire... the NEED... the start again.  All being led to this point. 

My wife and I took up scuba diving the last couple year and I REALLY enjoy it.  I'm thinking it has to do with the floating and weightlessness of the experience.  I need to use that I think.

I need some more time with this - thoughts and feelings are flowing faster than my fingers can type.  LoL

HAHA Now I think *I'VE* taken the thread off the rails. 

[Lumaza]

 EscapeVelocity and I had this same conversation a few weeks ago. The most important word that we found in our conversation that related to beliefs was "confirmation" of said believe. That is what truly made it "real". Many beliefs are taught to us. It's only when we find "confirmation" of that belief, that we are "all-in" on it.

 When I first began to have OBEs, I sought out all those different levels/NPRs that Robert Monroe did. I was looking for the comatose/zombie land, the belief system territories, etc.. All the things I had read up on. Indirectly I found some of them, but that was only when I wasn't looking for them anymore.

 I found areas that Retrievals were happening, but this was "before" I had read anything about it. I didn't know anything about OBEs and such, not to the fact that people were talking about them, that is. I know that when I was young and spontaneously throughout my life, that I found myself flying and all kinds of fun things in the NPRs. Like everyone else, I just figured and dismissed it as a cool Dream.

 Not everything was fun though. There were a lot of nightmarish areas that I visited too and still do. It seemed when I started to do Retrievals myself, that I came across a number of those nightmarish areas again. Many Retrievals occur in the Soul that you are attempting to helps own "hells".

 But and this is a big but, what I have found and been taught defies any beliefs I ever had and because of that, it has created new beliefs. Case in point, I always thought that all people could be healed. Early in my life, I once again, by accident, found out that I could help people with their pains. Whether that pain was physical or emotional. I just had this natural ability to aid them. But then I was shown that that is not truth.  I was shown that some souls have decided to move on, but their living host would be fighting tooth and nail to fight to live. With my Wife, I was shown this firsthand. Then I saw it in others that I knew.

 Now on the flip-side of the coin, I have witnessed "medical miracles" as well. Actually, I met a lady and her friend at a show I did last year. Her friend has brain Cancer. This lady began sending "healing Prayer" emails to all of her friends, myself included. They are meditations, kind of walkthroughs that she creates to aid in the healing process. After a few months her friend's tumor began to shrink. I saw the ladies a few months back and her Cancer had disappeared. She did not have any medical intervention. It was all done by the peoples' intent.

  I always thought that Suicide was the worst thing a person could do. But then I was shown that suicide is for the "living", not the person that passed on. It had a profound effect on everyone that was around them. Next was my belief, that disasters, mass deaths, etc. were the worst things ever. Once again, that changed when I was told that the people that perished were playing their part in the "play". That one really knocked me for a loop. It took months to allow and accept that kind of thinking into my reality.

 So yes, I had many beliefs, like others do. I have always lived by the adages "see is believing". I guess you could change that to "experiencing" is believing.

 I remember one NPR adventure I had about 10 years back wherein I was on a train. I could see everything outside of the window beside me. This train though was passing through different levels, possibly frequencies of dimensions. There was no talking. No explaining what was happening. This seemed to be to show me what possibilities could lie ahead. Never in my wildest dreams could I have conjured that up. It was so extraordinary. The highest levels defy a human explanation. I have never felt like again! 

[LightBeam]

Now I feel the desire... the NEED... the start again. 

APs and feeling connected to the entire multiverse makes this life so much richer and exciting. Truly like being in a game, seeing things from a very different perspective, and not taking life so seriously, to understand why everything happens the way it happens and to be able to step outside of the world drama. To see it as a necessity to be experienced because it is by choice. To understand this is to receive your freedom.

[Lumaza]

APs and feeling connected to the entire multiverse makes this life so much richer and exciting. Truly like being in a game, seeing things from a very different perspective, and not taking life so seriously, to understand why everything happens the way it happens and to be able to step outside of the world drama. To see it as a necessity to be experienced because it is by choice. To understand this is to receive your freedom.

Indeed. It changes your total perspective on what you used to think it was all about. It does often make you feel like you are on the "outside looking in" though. You don't seem to get caught up in all of the chaos and emotions. You are still watching it though. It's like you have become a professional "Observer". 

[Xanth]

Indeed. It changes your total perspective on what you used to think it was all about. It does often make you feel like you are on the "outside looking in" though. You don't seem to get caught up in all of the chaos and emotions. You are still watching it though. It's like you have become a professional "Observer". 

And honestly, that's probably one of the better ways to go through life - be the "observer". 
Don't get too emotionally caught up in the BS which happens. 

EscapeVelocity and I had this same conversation a few weeks ago. The most important word that we found in our conversation that related to beliefs was "confirmation" of said believe. That is what truly made it "real". Many beliefs are taught to us. It's only when we find "confirmation" of that belief, that we are "all-in" on it.

We really do see that in most, if not ALL of the major religions out there.  Personally, I don't buy into organized religion... you'll never find answers in other people's beliefs.  You might find a temporary answer which helps "right now", but in the long run, it's most likely something you'll need to shed in order for further growth to happen. 

So maybe, it really is the journey and not the destination which is important?   

When I first began to have OBEs, I sought out all those different levels/NPRs that Robert Monroe did. I was looking for the comatose/zombie land, the belief system territories, etc.. All the things I had read up on. Indirectly I found some of them, but that was only when I wasn't looking for them anymore.

I'm curious, did you end up finding that comatose/zombie land? 

But and this is a big but, what I have found and been taught defies any beliefs I ever had and because of that, it has created new beliefs. Case in point, I always thought that all people could be healed.

I haven't done any healing, but my understanding has always been that a person can be healed if they, ultimately, want to be healed.  Otherwise, you're just wasting your energy.  I dunno. 

[Lumaza]

We really do see that in most, if not ALL of the major religions out there.  Personally, I don't buy into organized religion... you'll never find answers in other people's beliefs.  You might find a temporary answer which helps "right now", but in the long run, it's most likely something you'll need to shed in order for further growth to happen.

The "confirmation" I meant was not in the biblical sense. It was something that you learn or experience for yourself (via your NPR adventures/experiences) that confirms your belief to be true.   

So maybe, it really is the journey and not the destination which is important? 

Agreed!  In the NPRs as well. That's why I like to teach people methods of shifting their consciousness from a completely consciously aware state. It's the journey getting "there" that has many lessons and also teaches us a lot about ourselves.
 

I'm curious, did you end up finding that comatose/zombie land? 

Yes. a few times. It was not my intent to see or go there though. I just arrived and after observing, I knew I was there. People were walking around like zombies. I would say that some of the souls there were between bodies, as in, really in a coma.

I haven't done any healing, but my understanding has always been that a person can be healed if they, ultimately, want to be healed.  Otherwise, you're just wasting your energy.  I dunno. 

It is a decision that seems have to be made on many levels. Mind, body, spirit, and soul/higher self. All of them need to be in sync. Mary Jo finally admitted to having and gave into the Cancer four days before she passed. She said, "that's it, I don't want this anymore" and the next day, she was in a comatose state all the way to her transition.

[sac_boy]

But my question right now is... belief plays a big part in our non-physical travels, and I'm left sitting here wondering if *EVERYTHING* Robert Monroe experienced in his non-physical adventures only happened due to his own beliefs?

It's been an age since I read Ultimate Journeys, this makes me want to re-read it. I vaguely remember a lot of instances where I thought "well, I haven't run into anything like that..."

I think belief is one part of a kind of 'mental vocabulary', along with all your personal experiences and even anything you might have imagined in your lifetime. The astral environment describes itself through this vocabulary. This vocabulary can reshape your perception of what might be the same underlying phenomenon. Maybe there simply is no single accurate perception of some things out there, and the only way a non-physical environment can present itself is through this mental vocabulary. Your personal concept-ulary...

I recall one really profound example from a video where Monroe talks about a guide showing him a vast field of flowers, and in the center of every flower was a face, and each face represented a life he had lived. I was blown away when I heard him describe this, because he was describing something I'd seen myself, but clearly through a different presentation layer. In my own experience these faces were small black line drawings against a sea of warm orange light in some pure mental zone. The icons were arranged in a kind of sunflower seed spiral that stretched off in every direction. The space didn't feel like normal 3D space at all, as I was both surrounded by and far above these icons at the same time, and I could zoom into any one of them. Zooming into a neighbouring icon was how I accessed a past life memory for the first time. (My other memory of that place was the awesome peace and silence after watching my own 'icon' shrink and fade as I first emerged into that mental zone. I've been chasing that same feeling for a long time.)

Seeing Robert Monroe speak about the same thing halfway through a relatively obscure video showed me that we really are exploring the same underlying territory, but that there may be no single 'true' version of it, no single accurate perception. Perhaps this physical world and human life is a kind of respite from that, a place to learn a common library of concepts.

[Xanth]

It's been an age since I read Ultimate Journeys, this makes me want to re-read it. I vaguely remember a lot of instances where I thought "well, I haven't run into anything like that..."

Re-reading that book has awakened my original desire for projecting, which was dwindling for a long while there.

I think belief is one part of a kind of 'mental vocabulary', along with all your personal experiences and even anything you might have imagined in your lifetime. The astral environment describes itself through this vocabulary. This vocabulary can reshape your perception of what might be the same underlying phenomenon. Maybe there simply is no single accurate perception of some things out there, and the only way a non-physical environment can present itself is through this mental vocabulary. Your personal concept-ulary...

Concept-ulary!  I like that. 

I've always said that what you experience while projecting is a subjective experience of an objective nature.  I *THINK* that's what you're trying to say.  Meaning that what you experience is objective, but HOW you experience is will vary based upon your own personal life experiences - using your own concepts as a vocabulary.  A concept-ulary!  haha nice.   I'm gonna steal that I think. 

I recall one really profound example from a video where Monroe talks about a guide showing him a vast field of flowers, and in the center of every flower was a face, and each face represented a life he had lived. I was blown away when I heard him describe this, because he was describing something I'd seen myself, but clearly through a different presentation layer. In my own experience these faces were small black line drawings against a sea of warm orange light in some pure mental zone. The icons were arranged in a kind of sunflower seed spiral that stretched off in every direction. The space didn't feel like normal 3D space at all, as I was both surrounded by and far above these icons at the same time, and I could zoom into any one of them. Zooming into a neighbouring icon was how I accessed a past life memory for the first time. (My other memory of that place was the awesome peace and silence after watching my own 'icon' shrink and fade as I first emerged into that mental zone. I've been chasing that same feeling for a long time.)

Seeing Robert Monroe speak about the same thing halfway through a relatively obscure video showed me that we really are exploring the same underlying territory, but that there may be no single 'true' version of it, no single accurate perception. Perhaps this physical world and human life is a kind of respite from that, a place to learn a common library of concepts.

I believe that goes to what @Lumaza was saying above when he said "It was something that you learn or experience for yourself (via your NPR adventures/experiences) that confirms your belief to be true."

[Nameless]

Hmmm? Going cold here, no quotes as yall all make good points.

Belief just gives us a framework in which to describe our experiences. The reality is what is hiding behind all those beliefs.

[EscapeVelocity]

Xanth (and anyone else interested),

Since you mentioned being currently on a Monroe kick and looking for some new reading material, I would highly recommend a book by Bruce Moen- Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook: A Manual for the Art of Retrieval and Afterlife Exploration. The book covers a broad range of related topics, ranging from deeper descriptions of Monroe's Focus Levels, energy-building and exit techniques, methods for sharpening perception skills such as the balance between the "Perceiver and the Interpreter", Helpers and Retrieval techniques and examples, etcetera.

One technique Moen discovered as a way to overcome his own difficulties when lost in the darkness and no visuals or audio can be engaged, is "Priming the Pump" by utilizing your imagination for a few minutes to engage a visualization or other sensory input. Reading some retrieval stories by Ginny here on the Pulse from years ago, I first read of that technique...and I initially rejected the idea, and strongly so, thinking it led to simple fantasy. Not until years later I was at TMI and struggling myself, that one of the Facilitators suggested the technique. So I tried it the next session, imagining the visuals and conversation for a minute or two...nothing. Then I spent close to maybe three minutes with the method and, like spinning a record or movie film slowly up to speed, the visual took on its own life; I was amazed! The technique didn't always work, maybe for different reasons, but it was better than 50/50, so I can now highly recommend it.

This book provides answers/ideas to many of the more nuanced questions we explore on this forum, so I think many could benefit from it. Moen also wrote 5 slim volumes called Exploring the Afterlife Series, which details his early learning experiences as well as many Monroe Institute sessions exploring the Afterlife, giving great perspective and confirmation on the work going on there. Five stars!

[T-Man]

Moen also wrote 5 slim volumes called Exploring the Afterlife Series, which details his early learning experiences as well as many Monroe Institute sessions exploring the Afterlife, giving great perspective and confirmation on the work going on there. Five stars!

I have read these 4 books by Moen and loved them!  I would also give them 5 stars!  If there are 5 books in the series than I must be missing one of them.  Will need to investigate.

[EscapeVelocity]

My bad T-Man,

The Guidebook IS the fifth in the series.

[T-Man]

I have just ordered a copy of the Guidebook 

Thanks EV!

[omcasey]

When downsizing and going into minimalistic mode ( for the umpteenth time, lol ) some years back I gave away my entire library. Hundreds and hundreds of books. Those I felt the closest connection with I save and held a give-a-way specifically for my closest friends, most of whom are associated with consciousness studies. Would you believe it? .. of all the books I gave away, that I have EVER given away in all my life the Monroe trilogy was the only one/set that ever came back to me. I figured it must be for a reason so I still have them. Thank you for reminding me of this.

[Xanth]

I have read these 4 books by Moen and loved them!  I would also give them 5 stars!  If there are 5 books in the series than I must be missing one of them.  Will need to investigate.

I've been looking for new books to read and I had completely forgotten about Mr Moen!

I'm gonna have to get those soon.

Thanks!

[EscapeVelocity]

omcasey,

There is an amazing, unarguably, serendipitous quality to how the Monroe books (especially the first one) spontaneously appear in people's lives...another indication of some instructive aspect of the Multiverse at work. In my own case, back in 1973 and at the age of twelve, I ventured into the Brentano's Bookstore at Tyson's Corner Mall in Northern Virginia (tagging along with my mother's monthly pilgrimage for family shopping) and wandered past the Psychology section (Psychic or Astrology, not even considered as sections at this point; New Age not even thought of yet, lol) and, gazing the book covers and titles, I espied Journeys Out of the Body, with a cover photo cleverly showing a faded image of a man floating above himself. I flipped through the book quickly and took it to the checkout, where the young man stared at me like I was crazy as I shelled out the 3 or 4 dollars of my life savings to buy it. I just knew, on a subconscious level, that it held answers for me based on my early experiences; I actually hid it from my parents, to avoid the questions that I didn't even understand, much less want to explain.

9 years later, and I had discovered this really cool, New Age bookstore in Georgetown, DC (Yes! Bookstore) and made trips there every six months or so, for three years, checking out various esoteric ideas and books from Sufism, Buddhism, Tantra, Kabbalism, Witchcraft, Theosophy, etc. Walked in one day after six months and Boom! there was the last copy of the first edition of Far Journeys staring straight at me from the front bookcase. That's for me, I instantly knew! Bought it with the lady owner saying that my book was the last of their first shipment and had sold out in three days...lol.

45 years later, after having done a few courses at The Monroe Institute (TMI), I shared my early book experiences with one of the long-time, senior staff at TMI, a wonderful person...and she responded that, yeah, they have heard hundreds of stories of the books literally falling into people's hands...

An interesting phenomenon.

EV

[omcasey]

EV, yeah, wow, your experience of discovery ( in real time ), ever so much better than mine. I had just begun spontaneously going out of body and couldn't figure out what was happening to me. I had been a disciplined spiritual student multiple decades, I was accustomed with meditation, but not with this! Notably as my experiences involved ET contact. I popped a few words I felt associated with my experiences into a search engine and Robert Monroe was one of the first hits. I listened to some videos on youtube and was blown away to hear that others were experiencing this also ( and it wasn't new! ). Not many videos were out at that time. I bought the trilogy post haste to get more information. The same day I also found Frederick Aardema, his forum board, Explorations in Consciousness. It became my favorite place for many years. SO grateful it was there and active during that time in my life. Transitioning from spiritual student to OBEing near daily for 4 years was not easy. Fun!.. incredibly fun, and intriguing to say the least but the learning curve was nil. I hit the dime and I was running. Fred was a student, or studied the Monroe material. So it was like a replacement for Monroe not still being here. Interesting phenomena for sure how these things come about.

[EscapeVelocity]

Casey, it is so interesting how many of us come to this subject from such differing directions, such diverse backgrounds and resulting in certain disciplines of application. Part of the confirmation process, to me at least, is the expertise of commentary coming from so many different sources, such as yourself- you bring such strong reinforcement of the healing, meditation and attunement qualities of the discipline...so thank you for that!

And thank the internet and websites such as this one, for what develops as a community of like-minded people who can discuss on a world-wide basis. When I was a teenager, I was scrambling to find just a few decent books on the subject, lol. There is so much potential open to us now.