AP v. LD

[AstralJames]

Sorry if this is not the right category to post this, but which is better; astral projection or lucid dreaming? I was explaining astral projection to my friend and he really got me thinking. "If you can't control the astral plane, wouldn't you just lucid dream where you can control whats happening?" I tried to figure a way to respond but I couldn't. So my question really is, what are the pros and cons of lucid dreaming and astral projection? Which do you prefer and why?

[Bedeekin]

I only prefer AP because I get more opportunities to have them.. with dreaming, they are far too immersive and I think good for me without becoming lucid.

You must realise that both are essentially the same 'thing' using different modalities of entry.

One is from a dream scenario the other is from waking consciousness. One starts during a dream the other doesn't. On both accounts you are accessing the nonphysical.

When you are lucid dreaming you can change certain aspects of it much easier because many of the aspects are painted by your subconscious anyway... essentially you are rearranging furniture you placed there yourself. When APing you are closer to entering with a cleaner slate and the 'environment' if you can call it that is more or less an extra-manifested structure. It is still bound by your own paint scheme but the shapes and lines are part of a bigger picture.

Lucid dreams are more 'fun'... AP is and can be much more insightful. But it's swings and roundabouts. Also I am bias because I don't LD as much as AP.

[AstralJames]

Hmm. Thank you for your view on it. I really want to experience both, which I have yet to do, but astral projection does seem more interesting.

[Lionheart]

Sorry if this is not the right category to post this, but which is better; astral projection or lucid dreaming?

They both lead to the same area.

But during a conscious projection, you are aware every step of the way.

In a Lucid Dream you have to get you have to get your bearings first. You are awaking in a Dream, but lacking full awareness of what is going on. You then have to implement some kind of grounding to gain further awareness.

I prefer to consciously Phase. But, I have LD's almost every night too.

Both are welcomed!  

[AstralJames]

How long have you been at LD and AP?

[Astralzombie]

The biggest difference is that there is nothing to learn objectively from a lucid dream as everything you encounter is entirely from you. The same applies during an OOBE but there are certain things you can't change other than your perception of it. In other words, you changed and nothing else.

I would rather have a "regular dream" or an OOBE. Lucid dreams are fun and everything you learn to manipulate also helps you during an OOBE but other than that, there's not much that I have learned while LDing.

Get some more experiences under your belt and you'll quickly be able to argue your position successfully. But the thing is, you won't care to.

[Lionheart]

 LD's since I was young. But on and off. There are years between some of them.

AP, I started in March 2011 after watching a video of a guy staring at a flame.

My first time I got ALL of the sign posts and it scared the beejeebus out of me. I couldn't wait to try it again!  

[AstralJames]

Did you try his method? How did it work?

[Xanth]

Sorry if this is not the right category to post this, but which is better; astral projection or lucid dreaming? I was explaining astral projection to my friend and he really got me thinking. "If you can't control the astral plane, wouldn't you just lucid dream where you can control whats happening?" I tried to figure a way to respond but I couldn't. So my question really is, what are the pros and cons of lucid dreaming and astral projection? Which do you prefer and why?

You and your friend are making a bunch of assumptions...

The only answer here is... it doesn't matter what you label your experience as. 
Call it "Orange Fountain Surfing"... when you haven't experienced awareness in consciousness for yourself, the label you choose to use is completely and utterly meaningless.
Because you don't REALLY know.  And you can't know until you actually do it yourself...

The only rule I think I have for anyone who wishes to learn the difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming is to completely FORGET anything you've ever read or have heard about them.  They information you think you know about them are even MORE useless than the labels themselves.

[Fairywindblues]

All of the above are in NPR but the level of awareness varies for each one and it also varies on you.  Day dreaming --> dreaming --> lucid dreaming --> astral consciousness. Now, they all fall under NPR, however, but your awareness in each one is what varies.

I'm going to give the weirdest analogy of all time so just stay with me for a moment.  Imagine that there is a thin glass wall between your consciousness and the NPR. Now, imagine that glass being covered completely with dirt. You can't see through the glass.  Now, imagine that you're rubbing away the dirt. Now, there is less of a haze between your consciousness and the astral. As you rub more and more away (obviously, this is my metaphor for raising awareness.  ), you get a bigger glimpse of what is on the other side.

Now, here's another analogy I have for dreaming and lucid dreaming vs the astral. Imagine that you're in a house and that house represents your dream. Outside of the house is the astral. Inside of the house is your own little subconscious playground and dream scenario. Now, go open the front door. Now, you are still in the house (dream) but you are looking at the outside (astral), but, since you're still dreaming, you are hereby lucid. Lucid dreaming. If you choose to step outside of the threshold, then tada, you have just launched yourself into full astral consciousness. Congratulations.

From someone who has astrally projected out of a lucid dream half a dozen times, knows what the shift from lucid consciousness to astral consciousness feels like. From all of my experiences, I have come down to this conclusion and this conclusion alone: The astral is so multilayered, like an onion, that most people just can't wrap their minds around it. It's all part of the same whole but it's so scattered. It's large enough for anything and everything to exist. Dream, lucid dream, false awakening, full astral consciousness... I mean, come on, it's all so apples and oranges, here. You can make your dream go from lucid to real with effort. Why? BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY THERE. When you truly want to step over that threshold, you will.

[Xanth]

NPMR is also just a point of view...
While "in" the NPMR, it's entirely and completely physical.  While this physical reality then feels like the dream.
While "in" this PMR, it's entirely and completely physical.  While the non-physical reality then feels like a dream.

It's all just a point of view and how you choose to look at it.

I wonder what people are going to say when science finds out that this physical reality is no more or less real than a dream?

[AstralJames]

Thank you all for your input, I am starting to love the forum's community. Everything I read, I get so much more information.

[almos]

My three cents...

I'm definitely with Xanth on this issue. Stripped of all the superficial assumptions, dreams - lucid or not - and "astral projections" are simply visionary states of consciousness. All of them involve experience of reality which is separate from the one we interact with in daily life - and by separate I mean that the actions carried in one reality very seldom translate into visible effect in the other. What label we put on the experiences and what reality is being visited by us while they last is another matter entirely.