I discovered astral projection at around christmas time last year and shortly after discovered the high pitched, and sometimes low pitched humming sounds going on in my head (they vary greatly). One thing that stood out very clearly to me is that when I meditate upon these noises before I go to sleep I tend to have the most vivid dreams, coincidence I think not.
During this 6 month period I've had 2 almost projections, one via a lucid dream where I was in the same posture I fell asleep in except there were no sheets no blankets no walls, just white nothingness accompanied by a black circle in front of me with blue sparks flying out of it (pretty creepy). During this experience I was awake, but not awake (if you know what I mean), fully aware and consciously having thoughts while staring in awe at the phenomena that stood before me, and then I felt the sensation of time accelerating, something was definetly about to happen. I became very fearful at this point and forced myself back to physical consciousness and proceeded to write it all down in a notebook I keep next to my bed for dream logging. Later I thought to myself, what did I do to arouse this experience? The only explanation I could come up with was what I was doing the night before, meditating on the sounds in my head and making them as loud as possible.
Some months later I had another almost projection. I had woken up early in the morning to go to the bathroom half asleep, I laid back down on my bed and thought hey this would be a good time to try and project. So I tuned into the sounds in my head and proceeded to lose awareness of everything, next thing I know everything is shaking like an earthquake and the ear ringing got louder than I've ever experienced before, it was quite frightening. So much so that I forced myself to awake completely
I've also had times when after doing this I start hearing random conversations, which I know aren't imagination because the things that were being spoken I have no knowledge about. In one instance 2 people were having a very technical conversation about motorcycles. The man down the street where I live owns a motorcycle and I recognized the voice to be his. Very very strange...
Last night I was doing it again when I heard what I thought was some sort of machinery making a very low humming noise, this never happened before because it's usually only the high pitched and lower high pitched ringing sounds that I hear. I thought it might have been coming from outside so I closed the window and put ear plugs in my ear, the sound became louder the more I concentrated. It's like the closed window and ear plugs didn't even matter. It got to a point where it was getting so loud that it was starting to frighten me.
Point being, there's definitely a strong relation to the subtle noises going on in the head to astral projection and other phenomena. If you have any similar experiences please don't hesitate to post them here I would love to hear about it.
What are these noises in your head and why do they seem to relate to all kinds of paranormal phenomena?
My opinion... it's the background sound of nothing.
Each of your five senses is *ALWAYS* processing something.
Sight, Taste, Hearing, Touch, and Smell... they're always processing "something".
That hissing/sound you hear is simply the sound of nothing that your hearing is processing.
They're entirely physical. Unless you mean tinnitus... then you need to go to your doctor and get that checked out.
Oh, and welcome to the Astral Pulse Blue Sparks. :)
i'm with xanth that it is physical sensory stuff. it's just that it is often something used as a focusing tool to achieve a sense of inner serenity which allows for paranormal/metaphysical experiences.
i also think it has to do with the fact that our ears are bombarded with so many loud noises these days that it is almost like a partial (but very very minuscule) deafness. so much activity hitting all the little inner ear hairs all day long probably leaves them pretty disrupted.
nevertheless, it's a useful tool.
In Monroe's Journey Out of the Body, at pages 235-240 he describes
the air hiss sound, from 1958 - 1970. I don't know if that sound remained
after 1970, but I guess it did. Monroe's doctors never found out what
the ear sound was.
I've read a few other reports about this, and one woman was taken to
an astral place where they mended people's astral parts. She was taught
a method to mend herself so she shouldn't hear the sound. If that method
worked, I don't know. The reason was that while she opened up to the
astral, something broke and wouldn't close down so there was a spill over
from the astral into the physical.
I think you first should go to the doctor. If you doctor starts to look at
you like you are a visitor from an alien planet, it's most likely not tinnitus.
My doctor didn't even try to make an explanation after I've described my
symptoms.
Tinnitus usually occurs after some high noise, like an evening on a music
concert, and then the tinnitus may decrease over a years time.
The "astral" hissing sound is a little different in my opinion. It may increase
and fade away over a day, or even over a few hours. It usually increases
after some intense NEW exercises, but even a walk in the woods may
make it increase in sound level. The sound may not be evenly distributed
between both ears, and can shift, to be mostly in one ear, like the right one.
If the sound has purely physical origins, it is really strange.
I would suggest, if you are skilled, to seek out some guides and ask them
what to do about the ear sound. Come back and tell us what you learnt.
Except for retrievals I have poor skills in astral things, so the sound is not
connected to how good you are at OBE or similar. I think some other
explanation could be that non-physical energy is forcing its way through
too narrow non-physical energy paths and that spills over to the physical
and can be heard in the same way vibrations can be felt "physically".
Edit: When re-reading your original post I think you are hearing M-Band noise
as well. It's the mixed emotions of thoughts from people all over. (Sometimes
the M-Band is called H-band by Monroe.) The M-band is a Focus level between
F 3 - F 10.
Quote from: Blue Sparks on June 13, 2011, 19:44:56
I discovered astral projection at around christmas time last year and shortly after discovered the high pitched, and sometimes low pitched humming sounds going on in my head (they vary greatly). One thing that stood out very clearly to me is that when I meditate upon these noises before I go to sleep I tend to have the most vivid dreams, coincidence I think not.
During this 6 month period I've had 2 almost projections, one via a lucid dream where I was in the same posture I fell asleep in except there were no sheets no blankets no walls, just white nothingness accompanied by a black circle in front of me with blue sparks flying out of it (pretty creepy). During this experience I was awake, but not awake (if you know what I mean), fully aware and consciously having thoughts while staring in awe at the phenomena that stood before me, and then I felt the sensation of time accelerating, something was definetly about to happen. I became very fearful at this point and forced myself back to physical consciousness and proceeded to write it all down in a notebook I keep next to my bed for dream logging. Later I thought to myself, what did I do to arouse this experience? The only explanation I could come up with was what I was doing the night before, meditating on the sounds in my head and making them as loud as possible.
Some months later I had another almost projection. I had woken up early in the morning to go to the bathroom half asleep, I laid back down on my bed and thought hey this would be a good time to try and project. So I tuned into the sounds in my head and proceeded to lose awareness of everything, next thing I know everything is shaking like an earthquake and the ear ringing got louder than I've ever experienced before, it was quite frightening. So much so that I forced myself to awake completely
I've also had times when after doing this I start hearing random conversations, which I know aren't imagination because the things that were being spoken I have no knowledge about. In one instance 2 people were having a very technical conversation about motorcycles. The man down the street where I live owns a motorcycle and I recognized the voice to be his. Very very strange...
Last night I was doing it again when I heard what I thought was some sort of machinery making a very low humming noise, this never happened before because it's usually only the high pitched and lower high pitched ringing sounds that I hear. I thought it might have been coming from outside so I closed the window and put ear plugs in my ear, the sound became louder the more I concentrated. It's like the closed window and ear plugs didn't even matter. It got to a point where it was getting so loud that it was starting to frighten me.
Point being, there's definitely a strong relation to the subtle noises going on in the head to astral projection and other phenomena. If you have any similar experiences please don't hesitate to post them here I would love to hear about it.
What are these noises in your head and why do they seem to relate to all kinds of paranormal phenomena?
Are these sounds all throughout the day..
- or -
only Xs when your going to sleep, have just woken to go back to sleep, meditation or tryn to induce an obe?
Well personally I know that it's not tinnitus. The sounds can only be heard at my discretion in a very quiet room, when I don't try to hear them I don't hear them, when I want to hear them I hear them and strange & amazing things happen. The ringing becomes louder or quieter at my will with a little effort and concentration. As I can recall, people with tinnitus can't really control it. In fact, if I don't make a concentrated effort to hear the sounds, I don't hear them at all.
Tee1234: They occur only when I'm meditating with the intent to hear them and when I try to OBE. I never hear them apart from doing those 2 things.
I think there is much more going on with these white noise sounds in your head than some of you give credit.
Pauli2: thanks for bringing up Monroe's writings, I believe it was in his writings that I found reference to the "circle with sparks" phenomena.
I'm kinda curious as to why no one else is reporting or documenting such things?
In that case, it's most likely just the normal background noise like I mentioned.
And as Personalreality mentioned, and as you seem to do, you can use them to focus upon in order to meditate. :)
Quote from: Blue Sparks on June 14, 2011, 16:53:52
I think there is much more going on with these white noise sounds in your head than some of you give credit.
................
I'm kinda curious as to why no one else is reporting or documenting such things?
It is well documented and its role in spiritual training is well known. Its call BrahmaNada (Cosmic sound is a loose translation of this Sanskrit word) or "Hu" in Chinese. English has no word for it, except the "ringing sound in head" which people confuse with tinnitus.
It is nothing special if you see it, just random firings of neurons while they idle. But good use can be made of this. Focusing on it takes you away from the physical. Once you become oblivious of physical and the mental chatter stops, doors to the non-physical open. Its so simple.
I have it 24x7 in my ears. It changes in tone when meditating (or AP session). Pure tones usually mean you are close to exit. During normal waking its mostly a pink noise and sounds like the "TV CRT noise".
The fact that you are hearing it means that you are sensitive enough for subtle energies. You can develop it further by meditating on it. You can control it simply by pressing your index finger and thumb together gently (of both hands).
While you are meditating, there will be moments when it suddenly turns off and complete silence occurs. It is not that the neurons have stopped their firings, it means that you tuned out of physical for a second. When this starts occurring you are very near to achieving the ability of AP at will.
All the best :)
Quote from: Psan on June 15, 2011, 11:01:13
I have it 24x7 in my ears. It changes in tone when meditating (or AP session). Pure tones usually mean you are close to exit. During normal waking its mostly a pink noise and sounds like the "TV CRT noise".
Well, technically
everyone has it 24/7... it's something that's always there, we're just hearing other, louder stuff that drowns it out.
If you sit in a very quiet room (it doesn't even have to be completely quiet, that just makes it much easier) and listen intently, you should be able to hear it. I can hear it right now with no effort at all in a relatively noisy office.
Yes, I agree, everyone has it always. Just a matter of stopping and paying attention.
IMO, it is important for spiritual quest because it is a good indicator of your 'energies'. Just as the sound of an electric motor indicates its speed.
I didn't have it 3 years ago.
Quote from: Pauli2 on June 15, 2011, 17:46:29
I didn't have it 3 years ago.
It was always there... you just didn't know what to listen for. :)
Lol. I am ruined. I am going to be listening to that slight ring all the time now that we shed light on it.
That slight noise is different from what I thought he meant buy hissing sound. I related that hissing sound to the whoosh you get when you are entering the phasing process. Once I swear I even felt a cool breeze alongside this whoose.
On the note of noises. Absolutely. I experience those all the time in the phasing process. Totally normal. In fact I try to incorporate them into the visualizations that are helping me become ever more disconnected as I enter the launchpad for phasing. You must embrace them and ignore them to be successful.
Cheers,
Contenteo
Quote from: Xanth on June 15, 2011, 21:44:00
It was always there... you just didn't know what to listen for. :)
Some ten years ago I had tinnitus, so I am aware when I hear and when I not hear
hissing/ringing/swooshing sound. After some years the tinnitus faded away and I
couldn't hear it any longer.
The noises and the vibrations are often considered side effects of raising your vibration/energy body and it's how the body translates the heightened energy at first. Esther Hicks and other teachers talk about how when you are more consistently in that higher state that the sensations will stop and this is what happened to me after a year or two (though occasionally I still feel the vibrations or hear hissing while exiting).
As a sidenote, my brother used to hear conversations when going to sleep or waking up. He used to think it was a neighbor's radio but when he used earplugs noticed it was coming from inside his head. And a few months ago I heard Indian trance music after coming out of a meditation that lasted for 10 minutes and after looking for its source determined it too was coming from inside my head.
Know you're not alone and not going crazy and it's likely just an indicator of raising your energy and will go away on its own.
Quote from: Psan on June 15, 2011, 11:01:13
It is well documented and its role in spiritual training is well known. Its call BrahmaNada (Cosmic sound is a loose translation of this Sanskrit word) or "Hu" in Chinese. English has no word for it, except the "ringing sound in head" which people confuse with tinnitus.
It is nothing special if you see it, just random firings of neurons while they idle. But good use can be made of this. Focusing on it takes you away from the physical. Once you become oblivious of physical and the mental chatter stops, doors to the non-physical open. Its so simple.
I have it 24x7 in my ears. It changes in tone when meditating (or AP session). Pure tones usually mean you are close to exit. During normal waking its mostly a pink noise and sounds like the "TV CRT noise".
The fact that you are hearing it means that you are sensitive enough for subtle energies. You can develop it further by meditating on it. You can control it simply by pressing your index finger and thumb together gently (of both hands).
While you are meditating, there will be moments when it suddenly turns off and complete silence occurs. It is not that the neurons have stopped their firings, it means that you tuned out of physical for a second. When this starts occurring you are very near to achieving the ability of AP at will.
All the best :)
I'm happy you responded thank you for your insight. I have asked around for a while about these sounds, particularly in spiritual and similar AP/obe/LD communities such as this and they always suggest "tinnitus". I sure am tired of hearing that one personally, makes me wonder if some people on these communities actually practice what they talk about.
I've experienced what you referred to towards the bottom of your post as "tuning out of the physical" several times, I've always called it "shifting gears" though because that's really what it feels like to me. It actually frightens me when it happens and I tend to break it instantly on impulse. I suppose I am sorta phobic about all this, must be the unknown factor.
Thanks again Psan for your well informed post, really, it means alot to me, I've been trying to figure out what these sounds were for a LOOONG time believe me. I am able to research it further now that I know the name behind the phenomena.
Good day :-D
You are welcome Blue Sparks. I'm a bit surprised that you did not Google it, because it is a common knowledge (or has become such due to the net). I'll post a few links.
You can show this link to the people who still believe it is some ear pathology:
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=19230598560&topic=3930
(Actually if its absent in someone , I'd call that abnormal)
Ancients have taken this art to its extreme. The tech is called Nada Yoga. (Nada=Vibrations)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nada_yoga
The source of all "Ear Ringing Yoga" is an approx 3000 year old text called Nadabindu Upanishad. Its just two pages and compressed, but that's the only way they could memorize it and pass on orally.
http://www.frankperry.co.uk/nada_yoga.htm
(Skip to #18 please, the intro is a bit confusing)
A regular AP practitioner will notice how close to his own experiences of sounds and related altered states this teaching is. He will also note that these verse are going to sound like a mystical mumbo-jumbo to an average materialistic rational man, who never had an encounter with AP or OBE or meditation in general. (Once you know this you will stop arguing with them :D)
There you will also encounter a number of Sanskrit names of altered states which have no English equivalents. Its like a fill in the blanks exercise for most of us, but an experienced meditator will understand them intuitively.
"Shifting gears" is a good metaphor , I feel this too. Sometimes you will notice that you have stopped breathing, and panic out of it. But its mostly that our awareness of breath is dissolved, body goes on autopilot.
I was watching a documentary on Astral stuff and Lucid Dreaming. They said that scientists found that a part of the inner ear starts vibrating along side REM sleep. Perhaps this vibration of the inner ear is what causes a loud noise to some people during the vibrational state, and is perhaps what the OP is perceiving as astral noise.
Just my 2 cents :)
As others have said I will chime in and agree that it is your ear scilia picking up on whatever. Sometimes it sounds like being at the bottom of a pool, you know?
I've had it my whole life but more as a kid. I would hear pure tone as young kid if I listened hard enough.
interestingly enough, I do notice it in projections as well! As soon as I exit it sounds like I'm in the the most quiet room ever, and all I can hear at first is the soft static, somehow more pronounced.
I've had this really bad for a few years now. Sometimes, it gets so loud, I have trouble sleeping. Oddly, I can hear extremly well and noise really bothers me because of it. I tried to use it for my meditations, but I find it only causes me anxiety to concentrate on the sound. Mine is just so high pitched.
After the death of a friends daughter, I was awakened in the middle of the night by a shouting in my ear a loud "Hello". Ever since then I have had a ringing,buzzing in my right ear. I began to receive messages from this young lady to relay to her mother. I am also "hearing" others now. I feel sometimes we must give up one sense in order to refine another. It's a little annoying, but nothing I can't live with. I find it more of a gift. I am able to help a friend through a difficult time. I'm in touch with "the other side" and my psychic abilities are sharper now.
hmmm
Hi, I had ear ringing when I was 10 to 12 years old, at that time i didn't take much notice of it, it stopped after some time. But two years ago it reappeared with a vengeance it's so loud that I had to see my doctor, he told me it was high blood pressure, old age and something else I didn't understand. he prescribed me some pills that didn't help.
I began studying astral projection in the 80's with the Rosicrucians but never achieved any success, and because of pressure from my Christians friends who used to tell me that if I astral project I might encounter demons and invite them into my life, I lost interest and stopped doing it. But now my interest in Astral projection is huge and if ear ringing can help accelerate it I would like to know how I can take advantage from it.
Quote from: ElS on July 16, 2011, 11:58:51
Hi, I had ear ringing when I was 10 to 12 years old, at that time i didn't take much notice of it, it stopped after some time. But two years ago it reappeared with a vengeance it's so loud that I had to see my doctor, he told me it was high blood pressure, old age and something else I didn't understand. he prescribed me some pills that didn't help.
I know what you mean. My doc just kinda thrusts his shoulders. I have high blood pressure but it is under control with meds. The noise has only gotten louder. I don't think it's from my pressure. I use a lot of loud fans around the house or when it gets really bad, I put on thunderstorm sounds. It really helps. I wish I could use it to do my little astral exercises. Although, from what others have said, I think you use it as a sound that you meditate on. It helps you not to think so many thoughts, I'm guessing. In my case, concentrating on it is like listening to someone scratch a chalk board. When I meditate, I use ocean sounds, various nature sounds to block it. It would be so cool if I could use it.
If you are hearing a noise when you concentrate on the sound of silence, you are picking up the "line noise" of your aural system. Kind of like if a radio station has dead air for a few minutes, it sounds like silence, but if you turn the volume on your receiver way up you'll hear some very clear static that's always there in the background.
I have found that I can focus on this sound until it gets quite loud. This causes my body to relax, and for my attention to be drawn away from the physical. At that point I can imagine a sound (usually a short piece of music or a word someone says) and it will repeat and morph into other sounds, getting louder and more complex. After a few minutes of this I lose my body and feel vibrations.
If you're hearing this noise all the time and it's distracting, that's something else, usually tinnitis caused by hearing damage (rock concerts, driving with the windows down on the highway, blows to the head or ear infections, etc). I'm not sure it's helpful to focus on this for AP purposes. However, meditating on it may cause it to be less stressful in your day-to-day life.
Ah, more reassurance that I'm not alone (and not crazy) :-)
QuoteDuring normal waking its mostly a pink noise and sounds like the "TV CRT noise".
I also hear a very quiet high-pitch sound nearly all the time. CRT sound is a good description (although many people can't hear the TV whine as it's near the top of the human hearing range). It doesn't bother me; I assumed it's a normal neurological thing. It's never occurred to me to meditate on it, but it would be interesting to explore that.
QuoteIt changes in tone when meditating (or AP session). Pure tones usually mean you are close to exit.
Interesting... on occasion, a whole different tone will sound in one ear - louder and with a definite pitch and purity. I've always wondered what causes this. It slowly fades out after a minute, and there's no paranormal aspect that I'm aware of, but it certainly is a strange experience.
The whooshing sound seems to be a completely different phenomenon. The sounds are very useful to me because they indicate imminent phasing. They start out quiet and if I simply relax they get louder and soon lead to vibrations. (Sometimes, they are also accompanied by tactile sensations which complicate things.)
QuoteThe noises and the vibrations are often considered side effects of raising your vibration/energy body and it's how the body translates the heightened energy at first.
That makes perfect sense to me. The only mystery is why it happens spontaneously when I'm not doing anything except going back to sleep!
QuoteThey said that scientists found that a part of the inner ear starts vibrating along side REM sleep. Perhaps this vibration of the inner ear is what causes a loud noise to some people...
I can make my inner ear vibrate - at least, that's what I think it is. It takes effort and it only lasts a second or two, but sometimes I can use it to induce vibrations.
I think you're hearing the sound of blood vessels in your ears. It's not noticeable (for me) during my day to day life, but it gets louder as I try to go to sleep. Much louder if I meditate. You can hone in on it and 'become' the ringing to induce vibrations if you want, but it kinda gets boring...
I believe this ringing might have something to do with unity consciousness downloads as taught by the scientist Carl Calleman.
As we raise our vibration the body will begin to undergo subtle changes. This ringing, much like the human emotional system, is added to our skill set as an additional indicator or spiritual compass for us to use at our discretion. Much like fear is an indicator or a low vibrational thought, and love an indicator of a high vibrational thought, the sound in the ears seems to get louder as we approach the thoughts/learning required for our personal ascension.
http://www.sourceworker.com/2013/03/18/the-ringing-ears-phenomenon/
iv got earwax tinntus so its there 24/7 so i use it to astral project.
This happened to me when I first tried astral travel. I've never seen it before. So it must be linked with astral travel. I have The Ear Ringing Phenomena since then (5 years ago) until now. Comes to itself. Sometimes I concentrate on it and then it grows stronger ...
The "ear ringing" while attempting to AP is known as another signpost. I will get a brief ear ringing, then a numbing, then I lose all focus on my physical body, so I can't tell what's going on anymore.
But, if you are experiencing ear ringing without meditating or Aping, then it's time to see a Doctor about that because it could indeed be Tinnitus or something else in wrong with the ear drum itself.
I just read in the Eckankar website they use this sound to soul travel but now I can't locate it :|
Quote from: Krishanna on May 15, 2013, 16:58:55
I just read in the Eckankar website they use this sound to soul travel but now I can't locate it :|
It is a great focus mechanism! :wink:
There have been several times where I have laid down to meditate and not only did I start hearing the high pitched ringing I tend to hear ever so often quite obnoxiously, but the actual frequencies seemed to be modulating. Like the pitch would literally go higher and higher and back down again! So for say 10 seconds I would hear a ringing lets say at a "C note" and then it would raise to a D note for another 10 seconds, then to an E note - on and on and finally to the highest pitch possible, then back down again. Other times its not so much consecutive, but rather a low pitch for example to high pitch to and in between, etc. After hearing that sort of ringing a few times, idk I just felt there was an intelligence behind it. On psychedelics the sounds get even crazier. They become almost tangible, a lot like OBEs with the humming and pops etc.
Has anyone put ear plugs in and listened to this sound?
Its seem really loud lol
Quote from: Mystiquemushroom on June 14, 2013, 19:02:54
Has anyone put ear plugs in and listened to this sound?
Its seem really loud lol
You only have to put your hands over your ears and listen closely.
By doing that you'll actually hear two distinct sounds...
1. The sounds of the minuscule muscle movements of your hands/wrists/arms... along with possibly the sound of blood rushing.
and
2. The sound you mention... which is, I believe, the sound of "no-sound". It's what you hear when there's nothing else to hear. All of your senses are constantly processing *something*... that is the sound of the absence of something to hear.
The sound of silence.
Some have a very loud background noise through tinnitus or hearing damage. This noise can be exaggerated by some foods too. It changes slightly daily for them. Two of my friends have this problem and at times seem deaf.
The noises heard from meditation are different totally. The familiar rushing noise and voices are accompanied by many others too.
These don't seem to stop, they change a great deal though.
Interesting to find out if any properly conducted experiments have been made on this.
Anyone?
Quote from: Xanth on June 15, 2011, 11:15:12
Well, technically everyone has it 24/7... it's something that's always there, we're just hearing other, louder stuff that drowns it out.
If you sit in a very quiet room (it doesn't even have to be completely quiet, that just makes it much easier) and listen intently, you should be able to hear it. I can hear it right now with no effort at all in a relatively noisy office.
I don't know. My mom and I both frequently hear the ringing in our ears (which can be rather irritating). A few years ago, though, I found that with practice I could fairly well control the volume and sometimes even shut it out. For me, I can be in a completely quiet room and not hear it. It does start up now and then and, if I think about it, I can still hear it. Has anyone else had the same experience?
Quote from: Bulletinte on July 04, 2013, 20:15:05
I don't know. My mom and I both frequently hear the ringing in our ears (which can be rather irritating). A few years ago, though, I found that with practice I could fairly well control the volume and sometimes even shut it out. For me, I can be in a completely quiet room and not hear it. It does start up now and then and, if I think about it, I can still hear it. Has anyone else had the same experience?
Quote...But, if you are experiencing ear ringing without meditating or Aping, then it's time to see a Doctor about that because it could indeed be Tinnitus or something else in wrong with the ear drum itself.-Lionheart
It usually only happens when I think about it or when it's quiet. So is ear ringing "'the sound of silence" or tinnitus? I also think that, since I can control the volume, it's probably mental. Either that or I trained a sort of hypnotic technique.
It has intensified when I tried APing on a few occasions as well.