how to slow down (or quicken) "time" during AP?

[gil-galad]

Hi

I am interested in whether it is possible to deliberately slow down (or quicken) "time" during AP. What I mean by "slowing down" time is that, for instance, one spends a few hours exploring the Astral while his physical body only sleeps for 20 mins. I know some techniques by which it is possible to slow down time during an LD (for instance, looking at a analog clock and imagine it slow down then stop), but an Astral projection is not (entirely) same as an LD. Since the Astral environment is less influenced by one's own thoughts than one's own dream environment, I am not convinced that the same techniques, used to slow down time in a dream, work just as effectively during an AP.

Some techniques to slow down time in LD besides the above mentioned: intend to stop "real time" (can also say it out loud); imagine yourself being in the dream for ours;

Is it possible to slow down time on the Astral just as in an LD?
Does anyone happen to know some methods which are used specifically to slow down time on the AP?
Alternatively, is there a "place" (or state or dimension) on the Astral where time flows slower? (where one can spend ours, while the physical body only sleeps for minutes). If there is, how can one locate it?
((I know that some people think that there are no actual "places" on the Astral, but it was easier to express myself this way))

Many thanks for the suggestions,   

[Xanth]

I'm the last person to say you "can't do" something...

With that said, "time" is "time".  It's dependent upon the reality you're in as each reality has it's own timescale. 
You can only speed up or slow down *YOUR* perception of time in the reality you're experiencing.
You can do that while physically here... like when you're busy and an hour tends to FLY by.  Or when you're not busy and an hour sometimes feels like an eternity.

That's your perception of the passage of time.

[AAAAAAAA]

Just do like you do on this physical plane. If you can't alter your state of mind to speed or slow down time while in the Astral,  you culd always go to the Grand Clocks. That is one of my favorite places to go in the astral plane.

[astralm]

With that said, "time" is "time".

But is it?  On the Macro scale Einstein proved time isn't just time but is connected to space.  We even tested this scientifically with the flight showing the atomic clock moving slower on the fast plane than it's sister clock stationary on the ground below.  In the micro world, our entire concept of time seems to fall apart.  I saw this because I don't think, and science doesn't seem to think time is actually as real as we think it is.  Tying this back to the topic at hand what is real is how our brains process information, which gives the illusion of time.  Because of this regardless of if time exists in the astral or not, or moves at different rates or not, our physical concept of time will always be attached to our experiences there because that is what our brain can decode and store as memories and sensory input.

I think time will be one of the last things we understand in regards to dreams and astral.  Problem is in a dream or the astral you can have a single memory of say being somewhere for hours, or traveling for hours.  Does this actually mean you were there for hours or just that you have the memory of being there for hours.  Like Xanth said sometimes time seems to move very slow or fast here in the physical.  We can look at a clock and quantify how much time something really took.  We really can't do that very well in NPMR.  If we are out for 15 minutes and it feels like 2 hours we really have no way to verify if it was 2 hours of "our time" we were out or if that is just what it felt like to us.

For example as I have been trying to figure out how to word this response it seems like about 10 minutes has gone by, really it has been 45 minutes.  Or yesterday I really wanted to get home and my 30 minute drive seemed to go on forever.  I would have guessed at over an hour if I had not known the time.  If these events happened in a dream or the astral I would come back and honestly said oh I was in the astral (or dream) for 10 minutes (not 45), or I was driving in my dream for over an hour (not 30 minutes).  Point being I would be wrong because I can't just look at a watch and trust it in nPMR so I have nothing to go on for how long an experience took other than my sense of time tied to my memories of the experience.  These can lie big time, you cannot trust them.

I do doubt if you make a clock stop in a dream it actually 'stops' time.  This is much more likely to simply trick you into thinking time is moving slower, thereby having you attach a longer estimated time to those memories.

[AAAAAAAA]

But is it?  On the Macro scale Einstein proved time isn't just time but is connected to space.  We even tested this scientifically with the flight showing the atomic clock moving slower on the fast plane than it's sister clock stationary on the ground below.  In the micro world, our entire concept of time seems to fall apart.  I saw this because I don't think, and science doesn't seem to think time is actually as real as we think it is.  Tying this back to the topic at hand what is real is how our brains process information, which gives the illusion of time.  Because of this regardless of if time exists in the astral or not, or moves at different rates or not, our physical concept of time will always be attached to our experiences there because that is what our brain can decode and store as memories and sensory input.

I think time will be one of the last things we understand in regards to dreams and astral.  Problem is in a dream or the astral you can have a single memory of say being somewhere for hours, or traveling for hours.  Does this actually mean you were there for hours or just that you have the memory of being there for hours.  Like Xanth said sometimes time seems to move very slow or fast here in the physical.  We can look at a clock and quantify how much time something really took.  We really can't do that very well in NPMR.  If we are out for 15 minutes and it feels like 2 hours we really have no way to verify if it was 2 hours of "our time" we were out or if that is just what it felt like to us.

For example as I have been trying to figure out how to word this response it seems like about 10 minutes has gone by, really it has been 45 minutes.  Or yesterday I really wanted to get home and my 30 minute drive seemed to go on forever.  I would have guessed at over an hour if I had not known the time.  If these events happened in a dream or the astral I would come back and honestly said oh I was in the astral (or dream) for 10 minutes (not 45), or I was driving in my dream for over an hour (not 30 minutes).  Point being I would be wrong because I can't just look at a watch and trust it in nPMR so I have nothing to go on for how long an experience took other than my sense of time tied to my memories of the experience.  These can lie big time, you cannot trust them.

I do doubt if you make a clock stop in a dream it actually 'stops' time.  This is much more likely to simply trick you into thinking time is moving slower, thereby having you attach a longer estimated time to those memories.

Your brain functions to decode certain things and store things. You are right about sensory input. But what is best to realize is that tying our physical concept of time to the astral works,  but the astral and physical are two different planes. Things work differently there. Things manifest faster and there are feelings and such that you can feel there that do not translate well here and vice-versa. One should expect to run into these questions. If you try to tie these physical concepts too much to your astral experience,  things might be a bit caddywhompus for a while. Time can be changed in the astral plane. Go ahead and try it. But you are right to suspect that it doesn't change time on this physical plane.

That being said,  I do believe that time does exist. I believe it to be something malleable and something that can be distorted. I personally believe that it exists in a way that we don't fully understand yet,  and therefore being human,  people are confused and wonder if it is an illusion or not. I too have wondered this and have done my best to make sense of it. I have come to the conclusion that time exists on many levels and in many places, however it is stationary. Time does not move. We do. And the direct relationship between time and gravity only supports this theory. Then again,  I'm kind of a nut, so it is best  to take what I say with a gallon of salt 

[gil-galad]

In my original post, what I meant by "slowing down" time in an LD or on the Astral, is different from the following: when I finished watching a good movie, "time flew by so fast" that I subjectively feel that it only lasted for 20 mins, although the movie was actually 2 hours long.

Instead it is like performing an action on the Astral which would actually take a lot of time (for instance, watching all Star wars episodes in one go (without leaving out a single scene)), while my physical body only spends 20 mins in the bed which I know by checking the clock before and after the projection (or sleep).   

Does anyone know some suggestions to the questions in my original post, if we understand the "slowing down" of time in this latter sense?

[Xanth]

In my original post, what I meant by "slowing down" time in an LD or on the Astral, is different from the following: when I finished watching a good movie, "time flew by so fast" that I subjectively feel that it only lasted for 20 mins, although the movie was actually 2 hours long.

Instead it is like performing an action on the Astral which would actually take a lot of time (for instance, watching all Star wars episodes in one go (without leaving out a single scene)), while my physical body only spends 20 mins in the bed which I know by checking the clock before and after the projection (or sleep).   

Does anyone know some suggestions to the questions in my original post, if we understand the "slowing down" of time in this latter sense?

You're then talking about two completely separate time-frames in two completely separate realities. 
I'd say you'd just have to visit a reality which has a "faster" rate of time than this physical reality.

That would be like someone from ANOTHER reality coming to our physical reality... and speeding things up or slowing them down here. 
That would get completely confusing for those consciousnesses invested in THIS reality.  I'd THINK you'd only have access to your subjective (personal) view of time.

[astralm]

Xanth's last post makes a lot of sense, I tend to agree with it.

[Xanth]

Xanth's last post makes a lot of sense, I tend to agree with it.

Well, I was thinking the same... until it just hit me that perhaps the consciousnesses invested in that reality experience time relative to that reality.

Then who would really know if someone else sped up or slowed down time?  I use to have this thought every so often... what if time in our reality just STOPPED.  Would anyone really know?  It would stop... for a million years... then start flowing again.  Who would know?

[Szaxx]

Think about clocks when viewed in the NP. It would be interesting to see the results if this effect occurred in the physical lol.

[astralm]

I thinking also about the duality of projection.  What I mean is by what appears to be the best models we have on projection we never really leave our body, we simply phase our awareness.  Some small portion of our awareness is still in this pmr though.  This is interesting because I have read some very advanced projectors that have been doing this 20 or 30 plus years are capable of actually splitting the focus with the result effectively being in two realities at once.  I wonder how these people view time when they project as they have two separate memory streams for the same 'time period'.  Does the perception of time in the pmr memory stream match the perception of time from the npmr stream?  Does it change based on where the npmr awareness is focused?  I personally don't have the answers to these.

I was thinking about the main question and looking over the responses and it occurred to me perhaps this also depends on where you are.  With many different reality frames, there are tons which are based on a time-space model similar to ours, in these I would think you would be bound to whatever the time-space rule frame is for that reality.  This could be shorter or longer than ours but would be fixed.  However I don't believe all reality frames (or planes) are based on our time-space model and the further away from the fixed time-space model you got the more control you probably could have over 'time', since really there what you perceive as time is more your interpretation of something else and not time as we know it.  So it may not be a question if you can control time, but where you can control time.

@Xanth

That is a very interesting point, I agree if someone or something slowed down time in our reality frame we would not be aware or notice this change.  To us it would just seem time is ticking away as normal and we would not perceive the stoppage.  If this has any real practical application from an individual projection (our ability to use it to stop time in other time-space based reality frames) I do not know.  Another thing to think about is that chances are in order for whoever slowed down time to feel the effects, they would have to be outside of the reality frame looking in.  This I think is the main problem.  Even if you could slow down time in a reality frame if you have your focus centered in that reality frame at the time you slowed it down you would not feel the effects, time would just seem normal (what you talked about in your post).  Basically in order to view time as changing speed you need be on the outside looking in.  From an inside perspective it will just appear time is going on as normal.

Oh Oh exciting idea.  So if that theory is correct you can never slow down time in the reality frame you are focused in because you would just not feel the effect even if you succeeded.  HOWEVER, since you are not focused in pmr it could hypothetically be possible to slow down pmr time while you are in a obe (because you are not focused in pmr).  It would have the same effect of appearing like you had more time out of body however instead of slowing down time where you are, you are slowing down time where you are not (focused).  Since you are focused outside (you have the outside looking in perspective which is necessary in order to actually perceive the time change) this would work.  In practice instead of actually trying to slow down a clock where you are you would need to to attempt to slow down time where you physical body is.  This of course has it's own problems since focusing on your body while projecting is a big nono and typically ends the projection.  The only way around this I can think of off the top of my head would be to either just build up enough control over several years to be able to overcome the pull back to your body when you are thinking about it, or just think about slowing down time somewhere not at your body, but still in pmr. My guess would be you would have the best success by focusing on where the official world time is kept, since slowing this down would have the biggest effect since it is where the majority of consciousness  accepts official time as coming from.  I believe it is in a lab in the US somewhere.  I believe it is the vibration of a cesium atom which currently is the 'official' time keeper.

Lots of ideas in this thread could be the basis for some very interesting npmr experiments.

[FuzzyQuills]

I was thinking of a similar thing a couple of days ago, only that I was more thinking of "warping" time so that it appears YOU are doing things faster or slower than those around you. For those who saw the last X-Men movie (Days of Future Past) I was thinking of how that superfast guy's perception of time is almost slowed to a stop because of how fast he's going, and he's likewise able to move bullets with his hands like they're little toys.