visit to a BST hell or just a 'dream'?

[Ginny]

Douglas,

~On the other hand, perhaps the whole scenario was just a product of my imagination, stimulated by discusion on the forum!~

***But just what is imagination, the ability to imagine? Someone once told me that since we really have no clue what the ability to imagine is all about, we end up using a tiny fraction of it to fantasize...and we thus assume the two are they same.***

~Either way, the result is the same. It has got me interested in trying to help those stuck in BST regions, esp the horrific regions.~

***Wonderful. You're needed. Follow that inner voice, that inner knowing.***

Love,

Ginny










[/quote]

[Gandalf]

Thanks Ginny, I'll keep working on this area. The more I think about that dream the more sense it actually makes. I think that bit with the ID card symbolised the fact that there was a 'job opening' there for me if I wanted it. Also, when I was standing wondering what the story was with the guy hanging in front of me and in responce I received some kind of vision of his house and occupation, I think this is similar to the 'rotes' that Monroe talks about, packets of information. That is certainly how it comes across to me..

I agree with you about not disregarding dreams or imagination. Monroe talks about sleep school for example, which I'm sue most people disregard or retain no memory of when they awake.
In any case, all 'dreams' are in fact astral experiences, the only difference is the level of awareness. My awareness during this experience was low, but I believe this was just as well first time round as it may have freaked me out if I was at full awareness!

Regards,
Douglas

[kromeknight]

Hello Gandalf
This dream sounds very much like the ps one game 'Silent hill'
Have you ever played it.This might just be memorys resurfacing.
Horrible  dream regardless.
Good luck

[Gandalf]

kromeknight_

Na, never played that one. I probably won't either if it's anything like my dream!

Douglas

[Nay]

quote:Hello Gandalf
This dream sounds very much like the ps one game 'Silent hill'
Have you ever played it.This might just be memorys resurfacing.
Horrible dream regardless.
Good luck

Hey Krome!  My son has that game..but won't play it by himself!..lol..  Makes me play it and watches..hehehe.
It is amazing how similar they sound...if it was anything like the game..yikes!  I wouldn't want to be there.

P.S. Krome,nice to see ya dropping in from time to time!! []

Nay. []

[Ginny]

Hey Douglas,

Something I forgot to mention...and you bringing up the rote reminded me that absolutely, this happens a lot in retrievals.
First time it ever happened I was talking with a guy who was stuck in F23, alone and working a food booth at some kind of carnival. He was terrified of leaving because he was conviced others were looking for him, to do him harm. I was then suddenly somewhere else, or within a scenario that helped me better understand the level of fear he was experiencing. I was crouching down in a cotton field, terrified of being found. Then I was back with him at the carnival. It took a moment to reorient myself but I realized that perhaps it was like a brief tour of his emotional state. I have no idea if the Helper with me orchestrated it, or if the man's fear was at a level that enabled me to briefly dip into and then out of his situation, but it helped to then be able to help him more efficiently.
I'll be with nonphysical people and suddenly see houses, a certain person possibly important to them--as if watching a brief movie--all kinds of information about them suddenly downloading into your awareness.
And yea, the ID card. Love it. And one thing about working with Helpers too, is that they always seem to understand what a retriever is capable of handling. At times the retrievals in the beginning are straightforward and they can become more complex as you gain experience.

Thanks for posting this and looking forward to future experiences.--:o)

Much love,

Ginny

[Novice]

Gandalf and Ginny-
First off, Gandalf, I had to chuckle at the "hope I'm not grossing you out" part of your post. I've had several dreams in which I'm writing and thinking the same thing!  

But I have a question about your comments regarding 'rotes'. First, I must admit that I'd never heard of Monroe until visiting this site. And I also haven't read anything about him except what's been posted here. But I'm a bit curious about what you are describing as a rote.

In Gandalf's dream, the flash to the house and the knowledge that this man was a doctor is I think what you are calling a rote. Where, during the dream, information or additional images will flash suddenly in the middle of the dream and explain or provide more information about the current dream. Is that correct?

Well, my question is how does this vary from 'normal dreams'? I mean, I have this happen in pretty much every dream I have. And like Gandalf in this one, I'm not normally lucid nor conscious of being in the astral. I do remember several dreams a night. And often times in great detail. And I get these flashes of images and/or knowledge in just about every one. So how does that relate, if at all, to the rotes that you two are describing? And are these rotes only attributed to 'retrieval cases' as I've read Ginny posting here? Or are they also normal dream sequences? I don't really feel pulled towards the retrieval process that I've seen and read attributed to Monroe. Which is why I haven't pursued further study in that area. But I'm now curious if I'm experiencing something that is in this field or is also a 'normal/common' dream step.

Thanks!

[Gandalf]

Novice_

A 'rote' is just a term that Robert Monroe used to describe a packet of 'information' which he discovered non-physical beings used to convey information to one another. In fact this makes up a great deal of what Monroe calls NVC or non verbal communication, a form of telepaphy which is the bog-standard means of communication in the astral (and also most other physical civilisations in our universe as well -aliens to you and me!).

We think that verbal communication is the norm but in fact it is not. Rather, they think we're weird!

Anyway, as humans tend to disregard all our night time astral journeys as 'just a dream' this means we lose out on a lot of potential IMO. Monroe found that astral folks often try to communicate with us here through 'dreams' in what he calls 'sleep school'. Usually we disregard it though.

Dreams ARE astral experiences, the only difference is the level of awareness, so when you hear of people being confused as to the difference between dreams, lucid dreams and astral projection, actually they are all the same things.

Anyway, the point is, because you are in the astral when dreaming, even although your immediate astral enviroment is a scenario created by your subconscious, you will often be firing packets of information backwards and forwards without even realising. Everyone does this but not everyone realises it. So I don't find it remarkable that you do this often but it is more unusual that you are aware of it.. that's good!

One final thing, as NVC is a standard methods of communication, it is not purely part of the retrieval process, it is just that because retrievals are a more popular thing now, we get to hear about peoples experiences more, hence the rotes.

Regards,
Douglas

PS most accounts of visions and flashes of insight and so on can be attributed to what we call rotes as they are essentially packets of information, although the form that information takes may vary.

[Novice]

Thanks so much for the feedback Douglas!

I'm now clear on the term rote. However, 'sleep school' is a new one as well. Guess I should do a bit of reading on Monroe, huh?

I've had a few astral projections/travel experiences as well as some lucid dreams. So I'm familiar with telepathy in that area. I just hadn't associated these rotes to that venue. Which actually leads me to some other questions. For example, does that imply that all rotes are a form of communication from another entity? Or are some of them still thoughts/creations of your subconscious? Or do they use your subconscious symbology/references to send the images to you while the source remains from them?......

I'm not expecting any answers from you, but I do appreciate the insight. I'll need to do some reading/research on my own and see what I can find out.

Thanks again!

[Gandalf]

Novice_

Regarding sleep school,when Monroe was exploring various regions of the astral, he came across areas where groups of people were being taught by astral guides (on various topics, not sure what). He found out that the 'pupils' were people who were still living physical lives and they were receiving these lessons while they slept. The guide didnt seem all that optimistic about how many of them actually remembered anything when they woke up or even if they did they would probably misinterpret it, however I'm sure its all useful and stored in the subconscious somewhere. Apparantly many of us are taught in this way while we sleep, although I can't recall any such situation myself.

Regarding how rotes are used, I think that because they are such a natural form of communication they are not just restricted to communications from others but perhaps also from your subconscious, as you say.

Regards,
Douglas

[Ginny]

Hi Novice,

Douglas said it all...and just thought I'd add what I've been learning about rotes, or communicating, while There. It's still a bit of a mystery to me as to just exactly how it works, but it seems that the less I rely on using the equivelant of the five physical senses when in the nonphysical, the more I'm able to use or access this instantaneous method of communicating. It's like being linked to a, at times, steady stream, other times in fits and starts... of 'knowing info'--info just coming to you about a person or any given situation. And I feel we all experience it, whether while wide awake in the physical or zooming around in the non. I think our culture has taught us to discount or ignore a lot of what just comes to us, pops into our minds out of the blue, even when such knowing info can be later verified.
So, just some thoughts---:o)

Take care,

Ginny

[Novice]

Thanks a bunch for the reply Ginny!

I've visited Monroe's website and done some 'snooping' around on it. I checked out the cost of the Gateway series (I've seen mentioned in other posts here) -- Yikes!! That's a 'tad' bit expensive. But from the posts I've read, particularly from Frank, I think I'll begin my approach without them for now.

I haven't actually tried phasing from, what I interpret to be, a meditative posture (sitting awake and going into a trance or something). However, the concept of projecting one's consciousness from the physical to a higher level in the astral 'feels' right to me. What I've experienced in the astral(to which I project from within lucid dreams), is simply a consciousness, but not necessarily a body, per se. So I'm more comfortable in projecting my consciousness, than in using my ethereal body. Not sure if that makes sense or not. And as I get more into this, my opinion could easily be changed. I'll have to wait and see what happens.

But I'm now considering actively trying to initiate these projections. Whereas before, they just kind of happened whenever. I don't really control when they occur. And as I'm still very inexperienced in this stuff, I'm trying to learn as much as I can. So thank you for the advice/clarification. I greatly appreciate all the help I can get!

[Ginny]

Novice,

I experimented with the TMI tapes in the late 80's and although I had a few experiences that said to me I was definitely more than my physical body, I still wasn't able to navigate the nonphysical in a conscious, aware state, with me at the controls. So, it was a bummer for me back then and I haven't used them since (probably because I was thinking the tapes would do it for me, instead of realizing I could). And I agree, although they may be a useful tool for many, all of us already have what it takes to journey to other areas of consciousness anyway: we're born with the ability.

This must be an exciting time for you. And I hear ya regarding you feeling you've been experiencing yourself more as a point of consciousness opposed to having to believe you need a second, astral body. I don't use the OOBE and I don't phase according to what other explorers have shared here. For me what has worked best is simply learning to focus my attention wherever I want to go while conscious...and learning to communicate via nonphysical senses. It makes sense to me that there are various avenues we can all take to get There---what's important is all of us just getting there--:o).

Happy Trails, Novice. It is by far the best adventure around!

Much love,

Ginny

[Gandalf]

I want to relate a very strange 'dream' I had last night. My experience of astral work is still small at this point and at no point during last night's dream was I ever lucid or above a normal dream level of awareness.

However, I found myseld in what can only be described as the hospital from hell! I was down in the lower regions/basement level of the hospital with some other individuals (who I seemed to know at the time). Now, impaled on hooks suspended from the ceiling were people, hanging there upside down. However, they looked more like lumps of meat than people, most of their skin was gone, in fact they looked quite decomposed (sorry if I'm grossing some people out here!). However, I also knew that they were still alive but unable to do anything about their situation (although there was one zombie like character on the floor crawling away from us to the far side of the room; the whole scene was utterly horrific.

I remained calm at this point, but I'm not sure what happened next.
I think we were trying to help the guy hanging there directly in front of us, but I didnt know what to do. At this point one of the others with me decided to help him out. I got some kind of vision of a house which must have belonged to the 'victim' in question, I then understood that he was or had been a doctor himself, before ending up here.

The next moment I had left the area and was in what seemed to be some kind of hospital canteen (I don't think it was the same hospital as the hospital from hell though!). At this point I started crying, I coudnt help it, but I just thought of the suffering of those people stuck up there on those hooks in such dismal suroundings, I think it got to me in a big way to think that the guy in question had once been a doctor and basically a human being like the rest of us.

As I was sitting there the guy in front of me, who seemed like some kind of nurse, said that I shoudlnt let the scenes affect me, that "although they are gross, it goes with the job I'm afraid. you shouldnt let them phase you out. If you want to do this kind of work you will just have to get used to it, don't worry, you'll get the hang of it".

He then handed me a card, I looked at it and saw that it was some kind of ID card with my name and photo on it. I thought I had failed earlier but this card was actually confirming my 'employment'!

I woke up just after this. What do people think?
I don't normally have vivid dreams or freaky ones like this.
When I woke up and thought about it, it seemed to me like a training exercise to some kind of wierd Belief System zone version of hell, and although I was never really lucid at any point, perhaps that was for the best this time round.

I think that part of this was stimulated by a discusion on this foum about BST 'hollow hells' and how I felt sorry for those stuck in such places. Perhaps I made some kind of intent to try to help those people out, and as a result I was taken on a brief tour of such places to find out if it was somthing I wanted to do.

On the other hand, perhaps the whole scenario was just a product of my imagination, stimulated by discusion on the forum!

Either way, the result is the same. It has got me interested in trying to help those stuck in BST regions, esp the horrific regions.

Regards,
Douglas