For those who have been there...
I did some reading and it says it doesn't always look exactly like the physical world. There can be that furniture in your home is arranged differently or you are in a completely different home altogether. These were labeled as reality fluctuations. Is that true? I was thinking, how can you do a test when the images don't match? (For example, you see the mailman put a yellow package into your mailbox.. If you wake up and run to the mailbox, you should find that yellow package there too. But if the images don't match...)
Also: if your emotions manifest (they exist as forms outside of you), then that must mean you are in the astral?
In some cases that statement is true, it is like an exact copy of the physical but some things are different, depending on the place that is. See, in the RTZ time is also ahead by.. what? 15 min? the weather can be different, a new park may not be there etc
The RTZ is an exact reflection of our physical reality. You can see accurate events and details going on here. Slightly off the RTZ time zone time starts to get twisted. You may see past present and future materials together, as time is more fluid.
After you start hanging around in the RTZ for a bit you eventually drift off into the astral... is that relevent to this topic?
You'll also perceive things in a manner which isn't exactly how it is.
For example... Robert Monroe had quite a few of these particular experiences where his RTZ experiences didn't match up exactly to what actually happened, but his mind perceived them as best it could. For example, he saw some people playing with large white playing cards, when in actuality they were opening mail. The mail couldn't be completely recognized by his consciousness which then used "large white playing cards" instead. This kind of perceptual change is a frequent occurrence apparently.
This is why you can't take what you see in a literal sense.
I don't believe the RTZ is the physical itself or even an exact copy. I think as you move away from "physical frequency" physical truths deviate roughly in proportion until the RTZ blends with the astral. I do, however, think you can explore parts of the RTZ that are extremely close to physical frequency where physical truths aren't quite snuffed out yet.
Quote from: Astral316 on February 12, 2011, 11:10:31
I don't believe the RTZ is the physical itself or even an exact copy. I think as you move away from "physical frequency" physical truths deviate roughly in proportion until the RTZ blends with the astral. I do, however, think you can explore parts of the RTZ that are extremely close to physical frequency where physical truths aren't quite snuffed out yet.
hmm I've always figured it to be a duplicate, considering it is the closest area in vibrational frequency to the physical. When a projector begins to see reality fluctuations and other unusual phenomena in my opinion they are no longer in the rtz, because the area really isn't "real time". The rtz is just a set of words anyways trying to describe the area, so the interpretation of it is all subjective.
Quote from: Under_the_Midnight_Sun on February 12, 2011, 11:27:18
hmm I've always figured it to be a duplicate, considering it is the closest area in vibrational frequency to the physical. When a projector begins to see reality fluctuations and other unusual phenomena in my opinion they are no longer in the rtz, because the area really isn't "real time". The rtz is just a set of words anyways trying to describe the area, so the interpretation of it is all subjective.
In my mind, it can't be an exact duplicate because then it would have the exact frequency. That can't be the case since "frequency" is a term we use to separate the physical from the RTZ/astral. I'd think a slightly differing frequency equates to a slightly differing truth, however miniscule.
I think of the RTZ as sort of a misnomer so I tend to use the term: etheral planes. The RTZ in its most literal sense, to me, is reserved for people who have NDEs. Maybe it can refer to the closest part of the etheral to the physical? Either way I like to get definitions straight for reasons of mutual understanding. One of the biggest issues with the subject of projection is that every term seems to have five different interpretations so confusion is easily created.
Quote from: Astral316 on February 12, 2011, 11:43:59
In my mind, it can't be an exact duplicate because then it would have the exact frequency. That can't be the case since "frequency" is a term we use to separate the physical from the RTZ/astral. I'd think a slightly differing frequency equates to a slightly differing truth, however miniscule.
I suppose you're right, the slightly higher frequency would cause some differences.
Quote from: Astral316 on February 12, 2011, 11:43:59
I think of the RTZ as sort of a misnomer so I tend to use the term: etheral planes. The RTZ in its most literal sense, to me, is reserved for people who have NDEs. Maybe it can refer to the closest part of the etheral to the physical? Either way I like to get definitions straight for reasons of mutual understanding. One of the biggest issues with the subject of projection is that every term seems to have five different interpretations so confusion is easily created.
Yea we need a solid definition for some of these terms. It's hard to tell though when the rtz is actually shifted out of because it seems to happen slowly. The one big difference that's very noticeable is the changing of night (if projected when nighttime) to day. I guess this could be recognized as a shift out of rtz, But of course it depends on the projection and the projector.. From personal experience the astral planes are usually daytime. (but not always)
Quote from: Under_the_Midnight_Sun on February 12, 2011, 12:18:53
I suppose you're right, the slightly higher frequency would cause some differences.
Yea we need a solid definition for some of these terms. It's hard to tell though when the rtz is actually shifted out of because it seems to happen slowly. The one big difference that's very noticeable is the changing of night (if projected when nighttime) to day. I guess this could be recognized as a shift out of rtz, But of course it depends on the projection and the projector.. From personal experience the astral planes are usually daytime. (but not always)
For me the difference is in the familiarity of the environment and the emotion of the experience. Etheric projections seem to involve places I can associate with the physical. They're fun, but the aura is flat and emotions experienced are pretty earthly. Also, social interaction is futile as entities (only humans I know personally) are passive or unresponsive. In the astral, the environments are unfamilar. The aura is more lively yet alien. Sensory input is enhanced along with emotion. Entities are more diverse and interactive, places can be more populated, etc. This has been my experience.
Quote from: Astral316 on February 12, 2011, 13:30:25
For me the difference is in the familiarity of the environment and the emotion of the experience. Etheric projections seem to involve places I can associate with the physical. They're fun, but the aura is flat and emotions experienced are pretty earthly. Also, social interaction is futile as entities (only humans I know personally) are passive or unresponsive. In the astral, the environments are unfamilar. The aura is more lively yet alien. Sensory input is enhanced along with emotion. Entities are more diverse and interactive, places can be more populated, etc. This has been my experience.
I'll tell ya... my last few projections have seemingly been to the RTZ now, unwillingly... and, a few of them I tend to not really have very good body control there.
This runs completely contrary to my "astral" projections, in that I have perfect control over my body.
Like my first conscious exit two Fridays ago, I projected into my bedroom and I had troubles raising my head to look at myself in the mirror and I felt like I had my pants or something wrapped around my legs, as a result I had troubles moving around. LOL
Any thoughts?
That last post reminds me of one of my RTZ projections-I was in my house,but the house was nearly broken down,no windows,no doors,the floor was just dirt,the planks were gone,and the yard was full with garbage,so I guess It was some sort of future?Maybe,but when i projected my body felt so heavy that I was afraid that I wont be able to stand up(I was on my knees,pressed down by some horrible weight)At some point I managed to stand up and explore the house,and it was like after a bombardment :D Ive had to go out trough the hole left by the missing window and into the yard,where the only thing that was the same was the dog,which recognized me :D next second i was back in my bed :D
Quote from: Simo on February 12, 2011, 15:17:34
That last post reminds me of one of my RTZ projections-I was in my house,but the house was nearly broken down,no windows,no doors,the floor was just dirt,the planks were gone,and the yard was full with garbage,so I guess It was some sort of future?Maybe,but when i projected my body felt so heavy that I was afraid that I wont be able to stand up(I was on my knees,pressed down by some horrible weight)At some point I managed to stand up and explore the house,and it was like after a bombardment :D Ive had to go out trough the hole left by the missing window and into the yard,where the only thing that was the same was the dog,which recognized me :D next second i was back in my bed :D
That's pretty awesome. :)
Yet I don't think it should be called real time zone,after all it's always different from the physical even a bit but it does.Like in my case with the time(looked like the future to me,when my home would be abandoned) :-o But thats my opinion :wink:
Quote from: Xanth on February 12, 2011, 14:32:50
I'll tell ya... my last few projections have seemingly been to the RTZ now, unwillingly... and, a few of them I tend to not really have very good body control there.
This runs completely contrary to my "astral" projections, in that I have perfect control over my body.
Like my first conscious exit two Fridays ago, I projected into my bedroom and I had troubles raising my head to look at myself in the mirror and I felt like I had my pants or something wrapped around my legs, as a result I had troubles moving around. LOL
Any thoughts?
Hey Xanth. How control relates to the frequencies (planes) as they deviate further from the physical is a mystery to me. If I had to throw out a theory I'd say the more you deviate from the physical the less energy dense the environment which creates more freedom in the experience... ie. the more dense the energy, the harder it is to manipulate. However I've had plenty of etheric projections where I fly around in my backyard and have total control. I've also had astral projections where I'm pretty much carried through it like I was awake watching a 3D/2D movie. That seems to discredit this theory and suggest control is an independent or individual feature as opposed to one that correlates to planes as they deviate from the physical.
Just one comment- a lot of time the difference is not in that things are in the wrong place, but in that things appear to be in the wrong place due to the way you're seeing- not with eyes, but with 360 radar-like detection. You can recreate this in the physical when you walk into a room and turn your head around very fast and blink 'just right'. Imagine not having the head to begin with, and processing the whole area globally and simultaneously.
As to whether the difference in vibrational rate or not has an effect, I think this is only an issue if you can't go through walls and such.
.02.
Quote from: Astral316 on February 12, 2011, 18:56:00
If I had to throw out a theory I'd say the more you deviate from the physical the less energy dense the environment which creates more freedom in the experience... ie. the more dense the energy, the harder it is to manipulate.
This is a really interesting way of explaining it. I've always realized that the closer to the rtz/physical the harder it is to manifest objects.
It was either Monroe or Moen (or it came up in a conversation between them) who said that the easiest way to manifest something in the physical was if the conditions were completely random- so I think it's more a condition of the environment's quantum state than the vibrational rate.
But the vibrational rate does have to do with it's indeterminate state, so there you have it. (And yes, I haven't come up with the right words because it was a late night and I haven't yet had my second cup of coffee).
Quote from: CFTraveler on February 13, 2011, 11:12:02
It was either Monroe or Moen (or it came up in a conversation between them) who said that the easiest way to manifest something in the physical was if the conditions were completely random- so I think it's more a condition of the environment's quantum state than the vibrational rate.
But the vibrational rate does have to do with it's indeterminate state, so there you have it. (And yes, I haven't come up with the right words because it was a late night and I haven't yet had my second cup of coffee).
ohhh i see, that makes sense :-)
Interesting responses.. I could also throw out another thing often mentioned -that there are no 'places' really, it is just focuses of consciousness. And they are existing simultaneously. You may be in the physical but there can come about a "F3" overlay like when someone is visited by the deceased. I've had the experience of this but instead with a F2 overlay (when waking up from a dream before it ended).
Thomas Campbell from MyBigToe says what matters is intention, and the new agers would add in vibration or energy. I haven't noticed anything yet for me, just by changing simple intention but I do make other wishes to do with OBE and they come true. (However making wishes in getting something from the material world is another story *sad*)
Thus far I'm not sure where I'm going in OBE. The astral is also known as the emotional plane and for most of my experiences I find it's all about feeling. That everything as appearance is new and different but the feeling is familiar, i know what this 'image' means or represents.
Once when I finally figured out how to leave my bedroom I walked in my backyard and I just knew it was my aunt's farm. I used to live there when I was little and I have a lot of good memories about it. The spaciousness and also it had the same specific smell. Even the type of sunlight, time of day made me nostalgic. Actually, it didn't make me nostalgic, it was more like I was reliving those memories /feelings.