You can LD at any time of the night with no restriction

[Astral_seeker]

What happened last night already occured some couple of times in the past, therefore I decided to post about it because it contradicts all what you can read on the internet about lucid dreamings.

Yesterday morning I woke up, went to work, came back home, ate lunch, went to bed at midnight.

So, I didnt have any afternoon or evening nap, this is a very important thing to keep in mind.

After I fell asleep at midnight I had a lucid dream. When I woke up it was 2:20am.

Conclusion : you can LD at any time of the night, even during the earliest and first sleep cycles. Saying that you dont have REM sleep on the 1st stage, hence why you have to WBTB to LD is a wrong statement. I had 3 LDs in total occuring when I went to bed after diner and without any prior afternoon or evening nap.

[soarin12]

Do people say that?  I've always heard that it is a lot harder at that time -not that you CAN'T.  I've had quite a few of them before bed without a prior nap.  I don't usually, just because it is more difficult, but it's certainly possible.    I'm referring to conscious projections, though.  Maybe you are referring only to becoming lucid from a dream.  I have very few of that type so can't really speak to that.

[Astral_seeker]

well actually yes, it tends now to be like "you have to sleep 4 to 6 hours of sleep before LD because before that you wont get into REM sleep etc". Hence the WBTB technique.

[Astral_seeker]

As about the experience in itself, when lucid I called for an Archangel and saw a Knight landing from the sky in a white and red armor. Unfortunately I woke up, remained still, chained with another LD of minor importance.

[Kzaal]

Ya, LD's don't require much focus or anything really. To me Lucid Dreams are very random, I can have 4-5 a week without even focusing on having one. And yeah you can go straight to sleep and an hour later already be in one. It takes some practice for someone who never had any but other than that once you start lucid dreaming usually you'll keep going pretty much all your life.
As soon as you start according importance to your dreams and want to know what's going on in them you basically become aware of it and start LD'ing so that's why I say it doesn't require much focus or anything.

[Xanth]

Ya, LD's don't require much focus or anything really. To me Lucid Dreams are very random, I can have 4-5 a week without even focusing on having one. And yeah you can go straight to sleep and an hour later already be in one. It takes some practice for someone who never had any but other than that once you start lucid dreaming usually you'll keep going pretty much all your life.
As soon as you start according importance to your dreams and want to know what's going on in them you basically become aware of it and start LD'ing so that's why I say it doesn't require much focus or anything.

Going straight to sleep directly into a "lucid dream" is phasing. 

Now replace "lucid dream" with "projection" and you've got it.

[Shugi Shugi]

Going straight to sleep directly into a "lucid dream" is phasing. 

Now replace "lucid dream" with "projection" and you've got it.

How do we know that it is projection? Like one may be doing phasing and thinking that he is projecting when in fact he is just "phasing" into a lucid dream, in his own head and not in reality out of the body. He's inside his own body still but hallucinating that he got out. So he may be just hallucinating in his dream that he is projecting! Is there a way how to tell the difference?

[Xanth]

How do we know that it is projection? Like one may be doing phasing and thinking that he is projecting when in fact he is just "phasing" into a lucid dream, in his own head and not in reality out of the body. He's inside his own body still but hallucinating that he got out. So he may be just hallucinating in his dream that he is projecting! Is there a way how to tell the difference?

Everything is a projection.  The scenarios you describe above don't happen, they're a misunderstanding and a misinterpretation of what's going on.  These misunderstandings have been going on for a very long time, so long, in fact, that most people don't even question them anymore. 

I've questioned them, and found that they simply do not fit my non-physical experiences.

You don't "phase" into a dream... or a lucid dream... or an astral projection.  None of those "labels" objectively exist.

You "phase" into a reality which isn't this physical reality.  That's the only truth.  You phase into that reality with a "dream awareness", "lucid awareness" or "astral awareness".

[Shugi Shugi]

Everything is a projection.  The scenarios you describe above don't happen, they're a misunderstanding and a misinterpretation of what's going on.  These misunderstandings have been going on for a very long time, so long, in fact, that most people don't even question them anymore. 

I've questioned them, and found that they simply do not fit my non-physical experiences.

You don't "phase" into a dream... or a lucid dream... or an astral projection.  None of those "labels" objectively exist.

You "phase" into a reality which isn't this physical reality.  That's the only truth.  You phase into that reality with a "dream awareness", "lucid awareness" or "astral awareness".

So you are saying that there is no difference between astral projection and lucid dream? Or what?

I mean, I don't know, but what I have read on internet people are talking about those two as different things. Like for example lucid dream is happening in your own head (a dream) while astral projection is supposed to happen in actual reality and not just hallucinations. So one is real and another is not. Are you saying that both are just hallucinations?

[Xanth]

So you are saying that there is no difference between astral projection and lucid dream? Or what?

Kinda...

What I'm saying is that those labels are experiences that don't exist. 

There's no such thing as a "dream".
There's no such thing as a "lucid dream".
There's no such thing as an "astral projection".

Just because a label exists and just because people use it, doesn't mean that it's an objective experience. 

I mean, I don't know, but what I have read on internet people are talking about those two as different things. Like for example lucid dream is happening in your own head (a dream) while astral projection is supposed to happen in actual reality and not just hallucinations. So one is real and another is not. Are you saying that both are just hallucinations?

People only BELIEVE there is a difference between those experiences. 
So why do they believe that?  Because they've misinterpreted what they've experienced. 

I explain the confusion here: http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/labeling-experiences-of-the-non-physical/

To sum it up quickly, people believe there's a difference because each state of awareness *FEELS* differently.  It's like when you compare how your "awareness" feels first thing in the morning compared to mid-afternoon.  For me, it feels completely different.  Like a different experience altogether.  Or when you compare your awareness while you're sober to when you're drunk... they FEEL completely different.
Well, the *EXACT SAME* thing holds true for when you experience the non-physical with different "levels" of awareness (which I explain in the above link).

I figured all this out after I had projections where my "awareness" fluttered between all of those levels of awareness all within a single non-physical experience.  It drove me to the conclusion that we don't HAVE, for example, astral projections... it means that we ARE astrally aware.  This also means that labels such as "astral projection" don't exist.  It also means we don't have "dreams" either... we have non-physical experiences where we have a "dream awareness".

This concept is really hard for most people to grasp, because most people have already been indoctrinated into the belief that we're "in" a body and this physical reality is DIFFERENT in some meaningful way to what we experience at night while we dream.  Most people have a false sense of what "real" *IS*.

For me, REAL is whatever you can experience.  <-- That statement in itself has *HUGE* implications for everything.  *EVERYTHING*.  The entire way you view yourself, your world, and everything within your life changes completely and forever.

[soarin12]

So you are saying that there is no difference between astral projection and lucid dream? Or what?

I agree with what Xanth said above except with a slight twist.  When I project in this way - phase to the point of being still slightly aware of my physical body, then rolling out or walking out of my body (it absolutely feels like your spirit is leaving your body but this is illusion - a mental construct) the "feel" of the projection is different than when I phase all the way with no exit, or gain awareness from the dream state.  And this different feel has nothing to do with dream, lucid, or astral awareness because I am astrally aware in ALL of them.  Here is the difference - in the roll out kind my astral body feels heavier.  It also feels somewhat 'ghostly'  -sorry this is the best word I have to describe it.  There is a very slight 'haze' in the air (visually).  The color tint of the projection is grey, brown or greenish -very different from the bright colors of the other kind of projections.  As long as I stay in the scene and don't go through a portal, this feel will continue, but as soon as I go through a wall/window etc. (portal) the feel changes to the other kind of projection -light body (or no body) bright colors - no haze.

I don't know what accounts for the difference in feel but I do know that there is NO evidence that the one kind of projection is any more objective than the other.  (I'm talking about my own gathered evidence)  That's why I don't distinguish between AP, OBE, and LD.  There's no good reason to and doing so is just confusing.  Yes I have proved this strange difference in feel to myself, but it did not prove to mean that I was "out of body" traveling the actual physical plane.  Too much evidence was found to be against that.

[Xanth]

Yes, I do want to point out and be absolutely clear that the stuff I talk about... the stuff I teach... they're *MY* conclusions.  They're derived from my own experiences.
Everyone else will have their own conclusions, hopefully derived from THEIR own experiences. 

Another way to put it is that what I teach is *MY* truth... it's not *THE* truth.  It's really important to understand that difference. 

I do enjoy your "slight twist", soarin. 

In the end, my ultimate goal is to get people to experience the non-physical with as little bias as possible in order to derive their own conclusions. 

[Szaxx]

If we remove the objective labels, we are in the physical world experiencing its wonders or we are in another reality experiencing that ones wonders.
They are both subjective in their reality, in this we can conclude the only objective element is our experience in both. This is our conciousness, the 'you' within being projected into whatever reality it is aware of. The awareness itself is important to note. A LD is more than the dream awareness but not as clear as the astral awareness.
For what it's worth an all encompassing label could be made of your 'percentage of percieved awareness'.
Then the PPA 32% will relate directly to a dream with some awareness and a PPA 87% will relate to an astral awareness.
The base of 100% is our physical world daily awareness.

The idea seems good but at what time of the day do you make this reference? Then the calculation of the percentage itself is not going to be the same for everyone.
It's also another label of reference for everyone to adopt and then perhaps the simple 3 at present may dissapear along with the confusion of reference shared by the many being misled into it all being different.
There's only your concious awareness wherever or whatever you are experiencing. No labels are required for this. You are aware, or you are not.

Does the PPA go or stay, thoughts.

[Shugi Shugi]

What is PPA?

Would you guys agree that there is another dimensions apart from this one? Like an objective ones, not just an imaginary? Like for example your dream is imaginary because you are making it all up, right? Is there realities what still be there after I'm dead? I know my dream won't be here after I'm dead because my brain that produced it would be gone. But this physical dimension would still be... right? So will astral plane still be? Is it like a thing or we just make it up?

Or are you saying that this physical reality won't be here? And that my imagery dreams will still be here? In which case I'm lost.

This physical reality is 99.9% of my conscious awareness. It's easier to use it as a reference point ya know. Cos yea, those other concepts are pretty hard to grasp, I couldn't , yet.    

[Shugi Shugi]

Hey! Hey, hey... come closer all, forum peeps.

*puts finger at lips*

Shhhhh! Quiet!

*looks around*

Come closer.

*whispers* 

Are you guys... are you real? Or are you just figment of my imagination?