Astral or Lucid? What am I doing wrong?

[sheriff_rango]

Hi all!

In my last couple of dreams, when i get lucid, my aim has been to 'break way' from the dream location/situation.This started in a sustained lucid dream where after shifting in and  out of awareness I was 're-awakened' by  a dream character (twice!). I made a firm decision there and then to jump out of the window of the house I was in. I walked briskly on right through the window and into a black hole in the garden. When I usually jump from a height in dreams the overriding thought is about landing safely and on solid ground. This time I just focused on just getting somewhere, anywhere. I was sort of being sucked into blackness and I could feel the wind in my face as I accelerated. I ended up floating in 'outer space' or a dream version of it - a black background with sparkles. I stuck my hand out and it was hazy looking and sort of transparent. For some reason my sleeve was striped (not what I was wearing earlier) and I was relieved I wasn't naked! Other than that I had no bodily awareness.

Fear then arose in me. I thought 'Something nasty will appear because I'm panicking' . I looked around and it felt like I could see all around me at the same time - a weird sensation. I then reasoned that if 'thought = action' here then I probably ought to keep things short and end it straight away. As soon as this was decided I started 'pulling out' of the scene. Right then my rational mind finally turned up and went 'Wait! There's so much I want to do!' or something and instead of waking up I ended up in a false awakening.In it  I tried to record this experience in some busted up notebooks but couldn't find an empty page. When I finally found one I struggled to even get the date down. I guess I woke up after that.

So I basically lasted about 5 seconds in space . Clearly I messed up where it counted right?  I learned (or noticed) however that my rational mind is always one step behind when in the dream-state. Initially I'm more animalistic or something i.e. that my survival or wellbeing is paramount and that's where the fear's coming from, maybe? If I'd waited a little longer I could have made a more sensible decision. Also, that the false awakening at the end was a positive sign because I didn't wake up , I stayed non-physical even if I couldn't capitalise on it. Correct me if I'm wrong on either count, obviously.

Then the other night after attaining lucidity I again power-walked into the abyss . I tried what William Buhlman said : 'Take me to my higher self' and... I ended up in a room with a guy in military fatigues on a sofa who said he was my higher self! I sat on a seat facing him and we made small talk. I kept on asking him 'Are you sure you're my higher self?!' and he seemed unphased and just said 'Yeah' with a smile. But when I tried to talk, to express myself, he started rambling. He then stood up, walked away from me and jumped into a hole in the floor, looked like a golf hole. I tried calling after him but to no avail. Somehow after that I ended up on an empty street. It was sunny but everything looked hazy. I just stood there without a clue. Its the first time in a dream that I didn't feel rushed just clueless and dopey.

I don't remember the rest unfortunately because when I woke up I had the choice of  recording it which would have woken me right up or try again while I was still dozy and opted for the latter. I remember swirly psychedelic colours and 'diving in' and seeing the same bloke now in a shirt and tie sitting behind a desk. We cordially exchanged  greetings  but as I tried to speak to him (just words - nothing deep) my hearing got fuzzy and he shrunk to about and an inch high and ran away.  I presume I woke up eventually.

So, what do you think? Brushes with the astral proper or just overblown lucid dreams? Should I persist with this technique?  I've been thinking that maybe I should instead just focus on conscious-exit projection or something. I feel like my subconscious really clouds things. Also that it takes aspects of my more successful episodes and flimsily reproduces them to dupe me. What am I doing wrong? Feel free to tear into me if you must but I'd really like some answers please!!

[Xanth]

One question and one statement...

Q: How do you define a "dream location/situation" compared to a non-dream location/situation? 

S: Any experience within a reality which, at the time of experiencing, you identify as not being this physical/awake reality (this requirement of identification requires you to have some level of conscious awareness) is a Projection.  Lose the labels... lucid dream, astral projection, obe... these labels hold people back because they try to ram their experiences and categorize them into them.  This is where the problems arise.

Trying to put your experience into one of these labels is like trying to ram a square peg in a round hole.  Sure, with enough force you just might be able to do it, but it's not a neat, clean fit. 

Lose the pegs... lose the holes...

If you're having a non-physical experience and you're consciously aware... you're Projecting.  There's no need to further break it down, because there is no further breaking it down.  You're either aware you're non-physical or you're not aware you're non-physical.  Many years ago, I too, became caught up in the labels... and it held me back.  It took me over 10 years to project and begin to figure this stuff out.  The sooner you can change your perception that this stuff is much easier and less complicated than most people have made it out to be, then the faster you'll be able to do your own math. 

Ok, I apologize... that was one hell of a statement.  ROFL

[Szaxx]

You are really doing fine. I'd stick with this method as it's working. You are still too physical in your mindset though, it's very common and takes years to instinctively know how to react to the fluid nature of the NP.
The skitting around is normal too. Shrinking in size and entering a golf hole pretty much sums it up. With instinct you'd have followed and questioned him further.
It appears you were being shown some of the ropes and general expectations you need to adopt so your solid physical world mindedness can bend into the wider realities available to you.

If it isn't broken, don't try and fix it.
This applies.

[sheriff_rango]

One question and one statement...

Q: How do you define a "dream location/situation" compared to a non-dream location/situation? 

S: Any experience within a reality which, at the time of experiencing, you identify as not being this physical/awake reality (this requirement of identification requires you to have some level of conscious awareness) is a Projection.  Lose the labels... lucid dream, astral projection, obe... these labels hold people back because they try to ram their experiences and categorize them into them.  This is where the problems arise.

Trying to put your experience into one of these labels is like trying to ram a square peg in a round hole.  Sure, with enough force you just might be able to do it, but it's not a neat, clean fit. 

Lose the pegs... lose the holes...

If you're having a non-physical experience and you're consciously aware... you're Projecting.  There's no need to further break it down, because there is no further breaking it down.  You're either aware you're non-physical or you're not aware you're non-physical.  Many years ago, I too, became caught up in the labels... and it held me back.  It took me over 10 years to project and begin to figure this stuff out.  The sooner you can change your perception that this stuff is much easier and less complicated than most people have made it out to be, then the faster you'll be able to do your own math. 

Ok, I apologize... that was one hell of a statement.  ROFL

I knew you would say that! 

No, I am aware that all non-physical experiences are equally valid. I'm just using the existing terminology I guess? I mean that I'm trying to find somewhere neutral and 'purged' of the imagery or whatever of the preceding dream scenario.What I'm looking for is a departure from something that's overtly self-created,  y'know?  Its not that I have any specific expectations, none really, but I feel like there's got to be something more solid, more constant, and just plain different to what I'm currently encountering. I wanna get out of my own headspace, really. I hope that clarifies things a bit.

But again if I'm going about it all wrong I'd like to know.

[sheriff_rango]

You are really doing fine. I'd stick with this method as it's working. You are still too physical in your mindset though, it's very common and takes years to instinctively know how to react to the fluid nature of the NP.
The skitting around is normal too. Shrinking in size and entering a golf hole pretty much sums it up. With instinct you'd have followed and questioned him further.
It appears you were being shown some of the ropes and general expectations you need to adopt so your solid physical world mindedness can bend into the wider realities available to you.

If it isn't broken, don't try and fix it.
This applies.

That sounds about right. It only occurred to me later that I ought to have followed him and was capable of doing so. I'll bear that in mind next time.