Hello AP Friends,
This was the first time that I had setup the experiment with the cards. My wife placed one card on the bedroom door and another card on the door that leads to the mudroom and to the outside the house. Both cards were faced down taped at the top. I figured this would be a great experiment and not to hard to miss since I would be projecting into that path.
The cards were placed on the door about 3-4 weeks ago and it took me that long to finally wield the results.
Anyways, roughly around 3:30AM 7/14/2005 I awakened into the trance state after have gone to bed about a 1/2hr prior. I did feel the vibrations and realize that I was rather in a good stance to project. As always, I just rolled out off the bed and onto the floor. I knew exactly what I wanted to accomplish and that was to view the card on the door. I floated around the bed frame and pushed my way towards the door. I was able to pull the card off the door and view the number and suit. The card that I read was the King of Diamonds. After that, I lost control and was pulled back the way I traveled around the bed-frame.
The weird thing is that when I was on the bed, my astral body was upright and my legs were on the bed. Basically, sitting upright on the bed and during that time I was spinning around in circles. I felt the physical body trying to re-align my astral inside of my physical but just couldn't. I had to actually had to lay down and focus and could feel the alignment kick in.
I kinda of wonder if this would be a good technique to prevent from coming back into the physical if you want to stay out longer?
Now, the next part is interesting because I thought I had awakened in the physical. I could see my wife Katie and she said to me "Wow, that was fast for you to verify the card". So we both went over to the door, pulled the card off and this time it was 8 of hearts.
Finally, I physically awakened and realized what had just occurred. So I grabbed my notepad, and removed the physical card off the door and went into the kitchen were there was light. I would be able to write the notes and see the actual card. To my surprise the physical card in the bedroom was 2 of hearts. Even though it wasn't the 8 at least I got the suit correct.
I decided not to remove the card on the front door leading to the mud room because I would again try to project later. Well, at 10:46AM I was able to project and this time no vibes were present. I did hear music from this astral projection subliminal tape I listen to physically and imagined myself rolling inside my physical like a log quickly turning.
Getting out of the body was a breeze and I moved quickly to the front door with the objective of reveling the second card. At the time, I was able to see the card and make out the number, contents BUT the problem that occurred which wasn't really a problem. I was able to stay out of body for 10-15mins exploring everything around me. I knew at the time if I was to abort the projection and come back that the experience would be cut short. So I decided to put the card in my pocket for when I would lose consciousness I could quickly look at the card upon returning and have a better memory.
Well, never a less I didn't realize this experience would be very beautiful, moving, and so inspirational that I forgot about the card details. During the experience I ran into two teenagers that I had asked if there were deceased and they both laughed at me. After that, I saw 3 black people, 2 men and 1 woman. I had asked them specifically if they were deceased and the black woman said "yes and that God is her savior and glory to be" I told her that I was sorry to hear that and agreed with her about her statement.
The other elements of the projection is that I was in a backyard which to be believed by me I was located at my mom and dads in the astral. When I was on the back deck, there were many flowers growing. Red, Pink and White in one flower petal. so I decided to pull the flower off and smell it. I could sense the texture, winkle touch and smell the scent of the flower. After that I turned to the sky and said "God, I love you and Thank You for this gift". Also, I asked help from a higher source like a angel or something from God. When I looked at the sky I could see a shimmer of a ray of light beam thru this pine tree and out from no where was this bird. The bird was a size of a watermelon, almost like a blown up puffer fish. I asked this bird at the time if you/it/he/her was my helper and it nodded back to me gracefully shaking his head up and down.
There's more to this experience and probably would take another 2-3 pages to detail, but I picked out the beautiful highlights of the experience. Imagine if I had aborted the projection upon verifying the card what I would have lost...!
When I finally returned back to my physical body, I went to the kitchen room and removed the card off of the mud room door. The physical playing card was the Jack of Diamonds.
What is truly interesting about this experiment is that the first projection and the false awakening the both times that cards matched the suit.
Astral Bedroom - card I read was King of Diamonds
Physical Front Room Door - card is Jack of Diamonds
Physical Bedroom - card was 2 of hearts
False Awaking Astral Bedroom - card I read with my wife was 8 of Hearts
What I think happened is that in the first projection and false awakening I had already read both cards. So if I was reading the card in the bedroom, I would have been actually reading it in the front room kitchen door and vice verse. I know that the card in the astral that I tried reading on the second attempt was not suit or the number on the physical cards. I am going by gut instinct and vague memory.
The odds of having the same suit in one astral projection and false awakening attempt is 500 to 1. I still have more experiments with the cards but for a first time shot - pretty dam good!!!
tvos
That is surely a neat experiment to try! It sounds like you had some nice experiences out of it too. I think if you are actually doing experiments like that you are more likely to project because the thought it always in the back of your mind.
I had an experience similar to this, however not intended. I was 'trancified' and my dad came home from picking up this gas powered tamper.(we were repouring our driveway) Anyhow, when he got home i ended up projecting to him and I saw the tamper as this big metal mass of yellow and black. It was very short. But I woke up figuring he had gotten home, which he did. So He asks me to help him get it out of the SUV because it weighs a ton... SOO turns out thats exactly what it looked like!!! black and yellow.. and a big hunk of metal.
Very cool.
Vvid1012
Thank You and the reward of this experience I'm so glad that I didn't stop it there. It was just remarkably beautifully!!! Words just can't describe it! The verification is something that I've been looking for like this in a experiment a very long time!!
I'm definitely going to conduct the experiment 9 more times and base my results in a statistic format See the what results are truly yielded and verifiable.
Your experience - you must have dropped your jaw when you saw the gas powered tamper as your dad was taking it out. Its kinda of like "Dad" I need a moment to reflect here!
Did you ever tell your parents about this or was this something that you've kept to yourself?
Tvos
Sounds good Tvos, keep us updated too! I have had a projection or two as you describe, and yes... no words can-- at least not without writing a short novel, heheh.
I actually did let out a small burst of excitement when I saw the tamper...holy crap! or something, but my dad goes 'what??"...'oh nothing' I didn't tell him, because he is very much not into any of these sorts of experiences. However, my mom is, so I told her. She's all, man you're weird! (in a good way of course)
Vvid1012,
Its that reality that hits home and the facts remains evident that there is
something greater out there or within. I do not doubt it anymore as I've had in the past. I will definitely keep everyone up to date on the progress. I think 9 more tests with the cards will suffice and will post my results within this thread.
What other experiments have you conducted during obe?
Tvos
Hi
That's very interesting indeed! 8) Thanks for sharing about your experiments.
People trying to give evidence of the truth of OBE through down-to-earth experiments, even little ones, do deserve respect - to me. I guess this most certainly is far to be an easy task, but would be so rewarding if this can help catching attention to people who see AP as "just a dream"...
I do believe in the OBE phenomena despite I've never had a full projection yet. When I succeed, I will most certainly dedicate some time to the kind of experiments you are doing.
But something I wonder is: why experimenting with a card ?
The major issues I see with the card experiment (hoping that my English doesn't lead to misunderstandings) are :
1) the number of cards are quite limited e.g. the chances that you guess the good card is quite probable (ok, "quite" is not scientific but you get the idea :wink:). This would be another thing to guess a 6-digits number (between 100000 and 999999).
2) The target value is not directly defined. It is defined by 2 sub-values : number/letter/figure and suit. Even one of the two sub-values is not direct since we can choose among a number, a letter or a figure.
3) Each card visually display too many "mind-triggering" characteristics :
- shape identification : the items to recognize and that makes a value (or sub-value) are variable in quantity (a card of value "2" contain less items than a card of value "7"), size (a Queen pattern is not of the same size than an Ace pattern), nature (one card is easily linked to a number, another isn't like Queen), and color (see below)
- color identification : the perfect "noise" for two reasons:
a) it doesn't define the target value (not even a sub-value), since 2 suits can share the same color
b) your mind automatically process color:
=> separates foreground (supposedly relevant in games but not in our experiment) from background (white)
=> checks consistencies such as :
- between the card number or letter and the number of patterns sharing the same color (a card of value "5" must contain 5 patterns of the same color)
- between the card number or letter and the remembered position of the 5 patterns of the same color (a card of value "5" must have 1 pattern on each corner and 1 in the middle)
- between the various colors of a figure (like Queen) to eventually realize that they make only 1 sub-value ("Queen" suit)
4) your emotional relation to each card is potentially null or uneven for each card. For example (and obviously) one can perceive a card as being more or less valuable in relation to games played in the past. An Ace may naturally be more "mind-triggering" than a card of value 2. So we might "want" more to see an ace even if this deserves absolutely no interest at the moment of the experiment. One can react as well on a given suit in regard to practices like divination; for example clubs and money, "good" hearts vs "bad" spades, ...
Of course, we can say we really don't care about this in our experiment or in our life in general, but the fact is that one day or another we probably all have occasionally heard of such thing said on such card, and we kept some memory of this.
5) cannot easily be linked to a "scenario". Several years ago, in a bed & breakfast in London, I got to know a french kinesiologist who told me - among very other interesting stuff - that everyone could easily remember any list of 100 different objects. Suspicious, I said "uh, not me" :roll: and decided to challenge him. So I wrote down a list of 100 words (representing objects like a car, a table, a plant, ....) with a number, then I spoke loudly the letter and the word, one after the other pausing about 3 seconds between each. After I read all the list, he remained silent for a few additional seconds and said "OK. Now tell me all the 100 numbers in any order like 25 then 11 then 84 and so on". So I did...and he did 0 mistake !! I was really amazed. Smiling, he then recited the list from 1 to 100 and then from 100 to 1. He even proposed to me to send him a letter 1 or 2 months later to request him the object of any number, but unfortunately I lost contact. Anyway, I asked him to explain and he said : "well, what you need to do is merely put every word into a logical and visual scenario that triggers your interest. For example, if you say 1. plant, 2.carpet, I will put the plant over the carpet. If you go on with 3.camel I will cover the camel with the carpet (and the plant). Continue with 4.car and I will imagine the car driving behind the camel to incite him to walk, and so on" :D So, I tried, and yes this works pretty well ! With a bit of training, you can remember the list of 100 words and even much more, in a very durable way, like a movie you would have watched.
So, to come back to the card experiment, one could gain real advantage to insert the "value" inside a scenario. Could work with a "Queen of Hearts", but not easily with a "2 of squares"...
What I'm highlighting here is the effort required to remember THE value. Because indeed this is the only goal we are striving to achieve. We really don't care that this is a "Queen of Hearts", that it is red or not, that it appears cool to do this with a card or not. We just want to remember as best as possible a distinct "value" (object, idea, or whatever) perceived during AP than we can check after waking.
To me, a card contains way too much "noise" such as shapes, colors, positions, irrelevant and relevant items, redundant sub-values, and is subject to hidden expectations.
I think we would gain to experiment with "something" that :
- can be chosen among a great range of possible "values"
- represents one distinct value with no sub-values
- is monochrome (black on a white background)
- has the same size for all values (for example the "value" would be zoomed-in our out to fit as much as possible the edges of a container of a predefined size like a 2D-square)
- can be inserted into a visual scenario that induces feelings
Something that comes to my mind is getting many pics of various objects from Internet pages, automatically processing them with a kind of image editor that would zoom-in/out to a constant size and remove color so that to get a black shape of a constant size against a white background. Then, you let your computer on, you set a timer that - while you do your mental rundown for projection - will automatically and randomly pick one of these refined pics and display it on the computer screen. For example a big black apple will display on a full white screen.
Then after you successfully projected into RTZ, you go in front of your computer, recognize the value to be an apple, and impress your mind with the sense of greedily crunching a delicious apple, so fresh and juicy...that you come back straight away to the waking state shouting "this apple is SO good !!!".
And hopefully, you will wake up saying : "I know beyond any doubt that my computer is currently displaying an apple". And an apple it is... :P
What do you think about this ?
Any comment from interested people is much welcomed.
I believe I could develop a tool that would do the automatic size & color processing. The white background around the object maybe a bit more difficult to automate but I think this is possible.
If someone proficient with AP would be tempted and serious to do experiments this way, let me know!
Yours,
Eagle of Light
Eagle of Light,
To answer a few of your questions about astral projection and this card verification I'll try my best.
First, its a 500 to 1 shot of "guessing" the two cards. Each being different suit and numbers or letters. My wife picked the cards and placed on the door. I have not had any knowledge or even seen the cards until I had the experience and experiment. Before even 'seeing' the physical card, I wrote down on paper first so that there wouldn't be any discrepancies or that my mind wouldn't play tricks on me.
My emotional relation to each card being that king is powerful and 2 is weak does not exist for me. A card for me is just a #, color, suit, and design.
I feel that the playing card in itself is a great method of experimentation and too many variables of guessing the card correctly on a 500 to 1 shot. You stated that you never experienced a oobe so how can you really say what is easy or hard to verify as an experiment? You don't know the energy, the pains, the struggle, and sacrifice that it takes to reach that level of consciousness. Its all work and once you do have that first oobe your world will be turned upside down. This is something that YOU have to do for yourself.
The earlier post that Vivid1012 elaborated on - how do you answer that one as not being authentic? How would he had known this that the gas powered tamper would be metal, yellow and black?
Just for the record and to add onto my experience from a few days ago. Yesterday at work I was on my break and was jogging. I've been jogging at work for 15Min's a day for the last couple of months now. Along my travels there was a playing card face down on the cement. I did not pick the card up because I wanted to finish. Anyways, I came up to the card again this evening still faced down. Out of curiosity I picked the card up..
To my surprise it was the Jack of Diamonds.
Let me know if I can help you project and understand more about trying to cross over..
Tvos
HA! that is nuts TVOS... more like a premonition or a sign than what it was actually meant for. Signs are very common for me. I can't quite explain the phenomena but it exists. For instance, I posted in other thread about me seeing all this crap in my head...and I wanted validation that i wasn't crazy! Anyways I asked my deceased grandmother(of whom I saw in some images) that I needed a sign. I just sat there quietly and randomly thought of a song to play on the radio, for I had a 2 hour drive ahead of me. So as I sit for the long ride switching from station to station...I am quite close to home, and Im thinking "oh well".. then as i get to the exit the song suddenly comes on! It was perfect timing as the time it played was at the end of my trip. I got the chills, heheh.
Other than that experience the only time I can validate that sort of thing is when I am having to get up early in the morning, its always on my mind. So i'll think I am sitting up to look at the clock when I really am just out of body.. and turns out that the actual time is right on! I should try some more experiments though.
OH TVOS,
You could also have your wife write some sort of simple symbol on a piece of cardboard and tape it to the door...That would be more effective against criticism at least!
very true about the drawing or name on the cardboard box and putting on the back of the bedroom door - i do plan on that when i'm a little more skilled. i think and truely if i can at least have positive results with the cards that would be a good validation.
yes, i get signs to and wonder about the cause and effect.. but it just so happend that it occurred on the same day with the card experiment...
tvos
Hi
voice of silence,
I'm sorry because I feel after reading your post that you took my post as a kind of a negative criticism invalidating your findings, which is not !!
Must I repeat what I began my post with ?
"That's very interesting indeed! Thanks for sharing your experiments. People trying to give evidence of the truth of OBE through down-to-earth experiments, even little ones, do deserve respect"
That's very cool and interesting what you're doing and I encourage you to explore this further and let us know about the results !
Please do not doubt about this. To me, there are not enough like-minded people that give time to these activities...
This said, the idea of my post was just to highlight what difficulties may arise from remembering the value of a card. Of course, this is only a proposition, you and other people are free and much welcomed to say if this sounds good or bad for such or such reason. And yes, you're right, I explicitly mentioned that I haven't OBE yet: this is why this is just a proposition, I don't claim my remarks to be true, I just invite people to think about it.
My suggestion is that the more the recognition of the "value" is direct, the more we have chances to remember the value, and therefore to give irrefutable evidence of the truth of the OBE experience.
You say "you don't know the energy, the pains, the struggle, and sacrifice that it takes to reach that level of consciousness". Yes, I do acknowledge that! And this is the very reason why I make propositions that could help to set up a more efficient experiment that would lessen the difficulties.
My reasoning is that the difficulties that a projector may encounter while trying to recognize the "value" (with all the implied reality fluctuations) may be likened to a machine trying to recognize an object. You know, form recognition and identification technologies ? A machine much more easily identifies an object (a "value") if the shape is uniform and separated from its environment; thus, the idea of a black shape against a full-white background.
Also, I talked about the idea of inserting the "value" into a scenario that could help as I explained above.
Thanks for the help you propose to me about achieving OBE. You know, I look forward to it, because I could even more understand the difficulties involved in the experiment.
But this doesn't prevent me from thinking about it with like-minded people and trying to bring something that may be useful. What I would like is a constructive discussion about the subject, everyone giving his opinion/findings no matter his/her skills so that we can think all together about the best possible experiment we could set up to achieve our goal.
Does it make sense ? Hope so.
Yours,
Eagle of Light
Eagle of Light,
Sorry if I came across being defensive or giving you a bad vibe after what you had post - that is not my intention! Sometimes, I have a difficult time expressing myself and come across the wrong way.
I think with your method of experimentation would be a great one to setup. I have plans to conduct other experiments in the near but for now I think this verification is all in the cards..:)
I am so happy and glade that I might be able to help you succeed in projecting. My door is open and you can email me anytime you wish. What I have to ask you is what methods, training, reading have you done on the subject of astral projection?
Tvos
HI Voice of silence
you know, maybe should I have started a new thread rather than replying to your post, since I put forth another method than the card experiment. So, I'm sorry as well.
I'm glad that you find my method of interest. I will call it The Black Shape Experiment. Maybe will this become a standard at the Frank Kepple Foundation® - I can dream, can't I? :lol: :lol:
I'm going to work at preparing the required materials so that you can test it the day you are tempted to extend your experiments --- and hopefully by myself if I succeed with OBE. Anyone else proficient with projection is of course much welcomed.
But...hum, to test it myself, this would require that I train more :roll:
You ask me about the methods, training and reading that I have done on the subject of astral projection. The answer is in my very first post in the forums. I'm a newbie...and not a newbie at the same time :wink:
Also, my last "experience" is here: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=167731&highlight=#167731
What is weird is that I feel so close. And yet I don't cross over. I want and don't want to. I feel ready and not ready. I think that despite I made huge progress on my understanding of the OBE, I still hold some old fear about it. I'm thinking about attending the Gateway Voyage at the Monroe Institute, this may certainly help a lot.
Your insight can be helpful. Thanks for your offer.
Yours,
Eagle of Light
Eagle of Light,
I can understand about fear and holding back. You know the phrase "Curiosity Killed The Cat' and that's what happened to me. If you "Really" want to know, you will crack the ice and make your mark.
Fear is very hard to swallow, even after all these years that I've been projecting. Its human nature because we are introduced to a totally different world then what we are use to. a lot of people get use to change and when new elements appear we have a tendency to feel uncomfortable and not knowing the environment or being able to control it. Its like a baby learning to walk for the first time - the same applies to the astral world.
Maybe saying affirmations before you go-to sleep "prayer to god" might help you feel comfortable when you do project. Also, if you can and the environment is right- leave the lights on in the house during the night. Also, try to project during the day - much easier to see around you.
Again, I have my fears inside of me but something keeps pushing me further to explore. Its like what do I have to lose? I've always returned and everyone else on the board like Frank, Major Tom, Seleski, and the others as well.
No problems of adding to the thread - that's what its all for. For everyone to help each other.
Hope this helps..
Tvos
QuoteThe odds of having the same suit in one astral projection and false awakening attempt is 500 to 1.
Please walk me through this, TVOS. I was once diagnosed with mathematics disorder.
Aren't the odds of picking the same suit in two successive trials 4 to 1? Out of 16 possible combinations (4 x 4) there are 4 possible combinations of the same suit (one for each of the four suits). 4/16 = 1/4.
Can you show me the formula you used to obtain 500 to 1?
The odds to picks the right suit is 1/4 the odds to picks the right suit 2 times sequently is 1/4*1/4=1/16 and so on......in order to obtain a greater then 1/500 chance you need to guess the suit right 5 times:
1/4*1/4*1/4*1/4*1/4=1/1024
Telos,
This is what my brother came up with on this card stats:
You have a deck of 52 cards.
You place the cards in various locations. Two for your experiment.
You have four suites of cards.
52(cards) * 2(two cards verified) * 4(4 suits) = actually equals 416 to 1.
Since, these are astral events - Each point is unique upon traveling to a different location) and not just a series. Thus, in order to get one card right it is unique -
So I lied saying it was 500 to 1, but now its 400 to 1..:)
Still pretty dam good for the stats and proof!
Tvos
Tvos & All,
Let's get this statistics on your card experiment right. I'm
going to be very liberal in the judging.
You guessed the correct suit of the first card and that it was a face
card. The number of cards that satisfy this constraint is 3.
On the second guess - which we'll assume corresponded to the 2nd
card, you got the right suit and saw a number card. The number of
cards that would fit that description is 10.
So it's 3 out of 52 (first) and 10 out of 52 (second)
3/52*10/52 = 30/( 2704 ) = 1/90.133 : 90 to 1 odds.
Still very impressive.
Scientists have been doing the OBE remote viewing experiment for years, but from what I gather the results have been mixed. The bad part is that the images need to be very large to avoid interpreter overlay (subconscious modification). The good part is that they found that they can make the image so that only an OBE'er can see it - like using special mirrors.
As far general remote viewing is concerned - not thru OBE, the scientific studies at SRI are quite convincing. I read this book written back in the late 70's. Uri Geller, a guest subject, was incredibly accurate at predicting drawings people made in adjacent rooms. The experiments were so successful that they made it into the prestigious journal Nature. Ironically, his famous spoon-bending trick was not scientifically reproducible in the lab and they left this part out of the article.
-mike
Ah, I seem to have misread...
QuoteAstral Bedroom - card I read was King of Diamonds
Physical Front Room Door - card is Jack of Diamonds
Physical Bedroom - card was 2 of hearts
False Awaking Astral Bedroom - card I read with my wife was 8 of Hearts
I was confused about your association of the Astral Bedroom with the Physical Front Room. I still don't see how you can match those together, but even if we are lax in our guidelines, this still doesn't make sense to me.
Quote52(cards) * 2(two cards verified) * 4(4 suits) = actually equals 416 to 1.
No, it does not seem appropriate to multiply by 52 cards by 4 suits. That makes it seem equivalent to having 4 decks, with 52 cards of each suit.
If we are lax with your matching of the dream experience to the waking, then you've matched suits only twice, which is as Tombo said (1/4)(/1/4) or (1/16). Impressive, but not significant.
I am not earnestly trying to burst your bubble TVOS, so please do interpret this as such! ;)
[Edit: I just noticed your post Mendel - you are also very lax in your guidelines]
Telos or Mendel,
What ever ehh! Its the first experiment out of four more that I will draw upon. It is impressive and its a great start of verification which I've been pursuing for ages.
What kinda of experiments have you guys setup that yielded results?
Anyways, have fun with the stats...:)
Tvos
I won't get into this anymore. I simply can say your calculations are totally wrong and that I believe if one does a experiement one should also interpret the results carefully. But since it is not my experiment...........whatever
Telos: I can assure you my calculation is correct. I explained a bit more about statistics on the following thread:
http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum//index.php?topic=6666.100
Just in case you are interested.
Take care Tom
Tombo, I've taken a number of stats courses. My math disorder comment was another one of my wry jokes. It's a true story, but I usually reference it when I'm poking fun at the incompetency of psychologists.
[Edited a typo... you know, because typos are mistakes and are "wrong" because they make you incomprehensible!]
Hahaha! I see........
are we going to keep replying back and fourth worrying about who's right or wrong with this statistics? why don't we pursue the true nature of helping each other validate these experiences, work together then just keep running around in circles. this is where the truth is!
tvos
Amen to that TVOS!
I have been lurking this board for over a year now and when I decided to join I thought perhaps an objective point of view and a little constructive skepticism was healthy. I thought I could learn from a different perspective, give say... Frank's ideas a serious look, and decide for myself whether or not it 'fit' for me. Thinking I'd be objective and open to an alternative idea. Even though I didn't quite understand what he meant, I didn't ridicule him for lack of knowledge and experience on my part.
Yet....it never ceases to amaze me that the people at this forum that are called 'Mystics' are non combative, passive and generally quite easy to get along with. They don't stand on their soap box telling the NON Mystics how wrong they are. Yet the NON mystics continually make note of how 'new age' is so last century that they can barely tolerate the posts. They mock and they ridicule what they believe to be non truths.
Well, as far as I'm concerned I am not put here on this earth to tell everyone else what they are doing wrong. That what they believe in is wrong nor what they have devoted so much time in is wrong. My only purpose here is for me to get through this game called life without anyone continually telling me how wrong my belief system is.
I came to this forum to share experiences that I have had, in hopes that other people may have had them and can possibly shed some light, and make some sense of them. Yet the Non believers tromp all over the 'Mystics' posts to tell us that our experiences are not real. Please, will you walk in my shoes for over 40 years and tell me that? Please, will you sit back in your condemnation and tell me how wrong I've been all this time? Will you tell me that all the things I've believed in and seen my whole life are mere petty little dreams that are insignificant? Some of you people are no better than Religious zealot's preaching your system to be right and ours wrong.
Here... now I've given you all another stone to throw. Call me a Mystic if you will, but I'll see you on the other side and won't you be surprised?!
TVOS, I've been offering my input and I don't mind continuing. It's just that the statistics we're talking about are very basic and disheartening when we can't agree upon them immediately.
QuoteMy only purpose here is for me to get through this game called life without anyone continually telling me how wrong my belief system is.
How is that not bigoted? Just don't talk to anyone, then. Then you should be happy!
QuoteI came to this forum to share experiences that I have had, in hopes that other people may have had them and can possibly shed some light, and make some sense of them.
Selfish reasons, if I may say. You did not mention helping to shed light on the experiences of others, or helping them to make sense of them.
Likewise, it is the definition of bigotry to be partial to your own views while being intolerant of those from others. Good criticism shows a great deal of tolerance, for how else could one be a good critic if she/he was not paying attention or did not carefully consider what a speaker had to say. You condemn what you think you see in others but you apparently ignore it in yourself.
QuoteYet the Non believers tromp all over the 'Mystics' posts to tell us that our experiences are not real.
This seems ignorant! How many non-believers are there in this forum? On the other end of skepticism, how many are there who question what reality actually is? If you would have only particpated in discussion more maybe you would understand the claims made by some people.
I'm not going to tell you your beliefs are absolutely wrong. Even if you say 1 + 1 = 3, I'll say no, that's not right, and
ask you to clarify it.You say
Amen to that TVOS! and then you don't help him!
I like the way you edited my post to turn it around and make me seem selfish. I don't see anywhere in any of my posts where it was all about ME. But whatever you believe what you will.
One thing to be careful of when caculating statistical chances is that you will invalidate your results if you define your method after the fact.
For example, if your stated goal is to guess what the cards are, including both suit and number, then before you even attempt it you can state that there is a 1/52 chance of correctly identifying the first card and a 1/51 chance of correctly identifying the 2nd card. Multiply those and you get a 1/2,652 chance of identifying both cards.
However, after the fact if you do not obtain your stated goal and instead redefine your goal you are "moving the goalposts" to fit your results! If you had stated the objective beforehand to identify the suit of each card properly then your chances would have been 1/16.
But you can't define your goal after the experiment is over. If you could then you technically would be successful if you properly identified one as a face card, one not. And an 8 does look a bit like a three, and well a diamond is the same color as a heart, etc.
I have tried this experiment before with mixed results, but won't accept my results as verification unless I nail it - number and suit. Even then, since I'm just using one card I have a 1/52 chance.
That's my take on the statistics of it all.
Amen
RJA,
How long did you work with projecting and card verification? IMO, I believe that four more attempts at two cards in different locations will give me enough to go on. Again, as I expressed earlier in my posts, its a dam good start towards validation. This is the closet I've ever reached with experimentation.
Remember, this is the first experiment that I've done with cards, so to at least get the suits correct, and mix up the king and the jack (but the icons being the same) I would say there is success there.
I've been trying for the last few weeks to project and view two new cards and hope. What ever the outcome is, I will accept and will not alter the experiment and tailor it.
I plan to conduct other experiments as well in the near future, but for starters its the step in the right direction.
Tvos
Second Card Experiment - Up in Smoke!!!
Projected and was at my mom/dads house.
Here's one of the short cuts about the exp.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20247
Secondly, was able to perform the card experiment. Although, this time it was incorrect upon physical verification. I do believe that this was not close to the RTZ as I was successful prior. Still more experiments ahead but the nice thing is that I'm seeing my goals, intent, and objectives unfold while projecting. So in one sense it wasn't a failure but only in verification...
Tvos
hey man the card verification is cool. I think that once you are able to decipher what is in the material while in the astral on a normal basis you will see things for how they are. I havent even obe'd once and you make me jealous just being able to get up oob and go look at the card, who cares if the card is wrong man I just want to get out and. :D Keep it up bro you got lots of motivation.
Unison,
Thanks.. its mental and physical work involved with astral projection. I am surprised my intent and desire has gotten me this far. I started this card experiment about 3 months ago and it has taken me this long to remember while projecting. I hope to eventually get better but for now its exciting and fun...
Tvos
Please do me a favor and tell me how you project. Step by step. I want nitty gritty details like high school girls talking smack about someone behind there back. Get it? Be realistic with it and also tell me of any hurdles you have had to conquer along the way. Ive got a few and I want to hear from someone personally what they have hurdled and when it finally made sense. Thx.
Unison,
Thats a big request..:)
If you've the time, go through my email posts and replies. You can definitely extract some realistic information on what it takes to project (for me) that is. Its def finitely a lot of mental and physical hard work.
This card experiment I plan on working at until I reach 8 more attempts. It could take me a year or five, but I plan on keeping up with this.
Tvos
Ap Friends,
Had another playing card validation attempt. Although, the card differs from the physical to astral there was one interesting fact. The card that I saw in the astral was a King of Hearts but at the time appeared to shift from a heart to a spade and back to the heart. In the physical, the card was 3 of spade black.
To date this has marked my sixth attempt of seeing the playing cards. Although, the first experiment was successful and the other attempts were not, other validations occurred.
Tvos
Ap Friends,
Thank You on the reading of my experiments with the validation of playing cards. I was a little taken by the side on the first attempt with the conscious and false awakening.
To this date I've been able to conduct on these dates card validations:
07/14/05 - Playing card - validate
08/11/05 - Playing card - non-validate
08/11/05 - Playing card - non-validate but precognition of that day for rain
08/30/05 - Playing card - non-validate
09/18/05 - No playing card - but precog validate of mom going to hospital
09/27/05 - No playing card - but my dog Leroy picked up my prescence
while oobe and started barking.
10/13/05 - Playing card - non-validate
Even though my success rate was not accurate with the cards, but other validations deffinitely came about. One thing I would like to point out when viewing the cards. The suit or the card number/letter would closely remain the same and not shift. On occassion at times, I would see a slight change from a heart to a spade and back to heart, but it was rare. I would first see the playing card, look at it, look away coupe of times and back at the card where the suit remained the same.
Along with this, here's the break down from 4/27/05 to 10/13/2005 in a
five month period of my rate of projections:
Lucid Dream to Projection: 6 times
False Awakening: 4 times
Conscious Astral Projection (from waking state): 31 times
Its been at least 7 times per month that I'm able to project and this is about one to two times per week. Although, lately little by little its been increasing as I become better skilled in recognizing the trance state.
I've been also monitoring my Food and Sleep stats seeing if there are any trends that make the projection favorable. My higher success rate is deffinitely in the morning which doesn't surprize me, but I'm able to project at other times.
My initial thought on this is to collect a good years worth of data, compile it and review this with the AP board for beginners and experienced. I think by doing this it will at least lay a good fondation of framework for others and better help man/woman kind.
Tvos