Is your OBE really a lucid dream?

[sublimy99]

I'm sure many peope here are having real OBE's. I suspect many are not.
It seems many of the descriptions here sound like my lucid dreams, yet,
they are being called astral travel.

I think they should be called on this by the people who actually leave their bodies.
Not to be mean or point fingers, just so everyone that comes here is straight with
which is which. I have heard that we leave our bodies when we dream, and I could
swear I was not in my body during a few lucid dreams, but I still won't call it
AP, just to be fair to myself and other's that come here.

There is one event that happened that I could have miss judged, but I
still call a lucid dream,again, just to be fair in my terminology. One time I got up
from a dream, I laid my head back down and fell through the bed. When I landed
there were shadows moving around me and one actual shadow person (which I've seen upclose and fully awake)
I was not scared but woke up jut the same. There were no vibrations. It still seemed dream like, though I was conscious.
What would you define it as? As of now, I'm still calling it a lucid dream.

[Astralwych]

  naw :/

[Tiny]

Dear sublimy99,

the problem here is that the basic scientific understanding of dreams are flawed.

First of all, the sleep world is a kind of secret dimension to which an active part of one's consciousness travels at night. Dreams don't happen in the heads of people, however content and make-up of the physical mind is reflected into the dream and the dream is reflected into the physical mind aswell. So sleep is an inter-dimensional process but with dreams themselves happening inside another dimension.
This is one of those areas where modern mainstream science again has absolutely no authority to talk about because the reality of dreams is much beyond their narrow-minded, materialistic view.


So dreams are indeed experiences outside of the body however they are not the same as etheric-projections or astral-projections. 


peace

[Metaphysically born]

Okay sublimy99 i can see that you are clearly confused. I will make it simple. A dream is the state whereby we go to sleep at night and sometimes our dreams appear more lucid than usually. Which we define as a lucid dream. Both astral projection and dreams occur on an inter dimensional level yet the difference is that when having a lucid dream you have been unconscious for the whole process and then suddenly awake or willingly awake within the dream. In astral projection you induce the state willingly from a conscious,wakeful mind and exit the body at will and therefore having more control over the process and being more lucid awake than in a dream state making the process seem more real.

The only difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming is the state of consciousness and lucidity.
Most of us here do it willingly (I know i do) and some are trying so stop the negative mindedness and pay attention to whats being said by everyone. Don't be jealous take notes/tips

peace out

[sublimy99]

First, I am neither jealous nor confused. I know what lucid dreams are, I have them all the time.
That's how I know I'm not Astral projecting. I've read William Buhlman, and I believe  he is
astral projecting. If I'm jealous, it's of him, not anyone on this board, at least not so far.

I stand by word, most descriptions on this board sound like lucid dreams, not  AP.
Sorry, that's the way I see it. I didn't say all, I said most.

Trust me I could describe all my lucid dreams, but call them AP's
and no one would say a thing. It fact, they'd probably say, "good job"
and "congrats" when in their mind they'd be saying, he's just having a lucid dream.

As far as your analogy of inter-dimensional levels, that is pure speculation.
I don't think you reach inter dimensional level's till you AP. And your first level
is usually still earth bound and then you can explore further from there.
I do believe inter dimentional things can enter your dream. I don't believe we enter a different dimention when we lucid dream
or dream. Like I said, I'm not jealous and not being negative, just honest. If honesty and calling things what they really are is negative, then
ok, I'm negative.

[CFTraveler]

Sublimy99 wrote:

I don't think you reach inter dimensional level's till you AP. And your first level
is usually still earth bound and then you can explore further from there.
I do believe inter dimentional things can enter your dream. I don't believe we enter a different dimention when we lucid dream

Then please explain precognitive dreams and shared dreams, which most projectors also experience (leading us to believe that they are a range of the same type of   phenomenon).  I understand that the whole concept of dimension can mean many things (from spatial dimensions to states of consciousness), but the idea of consciousness being able to get information from extraphysical 'locales' is essentially the same, don't you think?

[sublimy99]

Ok, I think (again, this is speculative) we are connected to those dimensions
at any given time and that information can be leaked, or passed back and
forth, I don't believe we are submerged in those dimensions when dreaming.

Even when I'm lucid dreaming I don't control the background, I control my actions.
It seems many other things are not in my control, maybe cause I'm not that good
at it yet, though I'm getting better.

I could be wrong about all of this. It's not a scientifically studied subject.
Dimensions are now studied in physics, but not relating to dreams and OBE's.
The only thing I was saying is, I believe many of the AP descriptions seemed closer
to lucid dreams and that got a few knickers in a twist.

[Metaphysically born]

pure speculation lol i will laugh to that. Anyway that is your believe wont say anything further

peace out

[sublimy99]

If it is not scientifically proven, then yes, it's speculative. It's the way
things work. That doesn't mean you're wrong or right. It just means you
are basing your belief system on speculation, of course you are.

If you are not, then please point to the scientific finding on astral travel.
I'm not talking about someone else's belief system, I mean scientific finding's.
There are none, so it's all speculative, even though I believe in AP,
that still doesn't erase the speculation. I wouldn't be tryng to AP,
if I didn't believe in it. I wouldn't be coming to this website, if I didn't
believe in it. However, most of the spiritual world is speculative.

[outofbodydude]

Sublimy

It is a strong, experienced-based belief of many seasoned explorers, myself included, that most dreams, or at least many of them, occur in the astral realms.  This one fact alone should shed some light on the nature of lucid dreams vs. OBEs. 

[sublimy99]

I know that Lucid dreams and OBE's are close in nature. I never used to
think they were even close, till I had a lucid dream so lucid, I thought
(during the lucid dream) there's no way I'm still in my body. I was
flying just above the ocean skimming the water with my hand.
I was enjoying myself a great deal and when I awoke I wouldn't be
surprised if I had a piece of seaweed in my hand, but I didn't.

Despite feeling I was not in my body at the time, I still called it a lucid dream.
despite the thin vail between Lucid deams and AP, I felt I had to be true
to myself and the nature of what it was, a lucid dream. In fact,  I believe when I
do AP, it will most likely be from a lucid dream to AP and not from consciousess to AP.
I just think it's important to separate the two for what they are.

[outofbodydude]

I just think it's important to separate the two for what they are.

But why is it so important if they are essentially the same thing?  I'm confident that the only significant difference between these two types of experiences is the manner that one enters them.  And don't forget about WILDs.. lucid dreams in which there is no break in consciousness from the waking state to the astral.  What's important is not what one labels the experience, but what one learns from it and how one grows because of it.

Regarding turning your lucid dreams into OBEs... In my experience, what this does is shift my consciousness from the astral(the lucid dream) to the real time zone(the obe).  I do not remember a time that I've had a more enjoyable experience in the RTZ than in the astral.  I usually regret making the transition, for my consciousness seems to have less limits in the astral(as far as movement and perception) than it does in the real time.  You will see in time that you were making a big deal over nothing.

[sublimy99]

OOBD, you may  right. I'm sure the labeling and descriptive connotation, OBE vs. lucid dream,
is a moot point, in the grand scale of things. I didn't really feel I was making
that big of a deal out of it, but I'm sure (now) some took it that way.

I guess I won't truly know till I embark on that endeavor.
I have heard one big difference is the intense feeling of reality in an Obe vs. lucid dream.
I can tell you that despite being conscious in a lucid dream, I can tell it's still a dream.
I can't yet tell how real an OBE feels.

[CFTraveler]

The reality of a real time projection is very 'real', but astral projections are another thing altogether- they can be dreamlike, or the 'background' may not matter at all if it's a mental projection.  That's why I don't consider 'feeling it's real' to be a precondition, except for RTZ projections (etheric.)

[outofbodydude]

CFT

I believe the "reality", the vividness, the realness of a particular dimension, be it the RTZ, the Astral Planes, ect, is determined by the traveler's level of lucidity and the state of their consciousness, rather than attributes of that particular dimension alone.  I've had many astral projections which seemed to be much more "real" than physical reality, and I've also had many real time projections in which the reality seemed more dreamlike and less vivid.  I've had astral projections which were more dreamlike, more abstract, than anything relatable to the physical world, and yet these experiences have all been far more real than anything I have experienced in physical reality or the RTZ.  Experience has shown that the realness of any type of projection is a matter of the level of one's conscious awareness.

[CFTraveler]

I agree with you.  I guess what I was trying to convey is that the quality of the image (surroundings) is not necessarily an indicator of 'where' or 'what' it is, the content sometimes is.  And of course, the projector themselves.  I've had periods in which all my projections, no matter where, were muddled and, not so much dreamlike, as, well, 'unreal'.  So yes, I agree.