Did I go to hell?

[Starvingpercussionist]

I astrally projected this morning, and I went to this redish orange version of my room, and I kind of scampered out of there, and weird images flashed in front of me. Did I go to one version of hell? I tried to say "clarity now" but I just stuttered. 

[rockyrojas88]

  Well that's strange....I wouldn't say you went to "hell" though.In hell i think you'd be desolved by guilt and fear of something...

[Greytraveller]

Probably not Hell. (Let's hope so anyway lol)
It probably was either a misperception of some sort.
Or possibly some sort of energy pervaded the area.
btw I once had a false awakening where my room was a strange orange color. It confused me for awhile before I realized it was a dream.

Grey

[Starvingpercussionist]

Hmm... It might have been a dream of some sort. This wouldn't be the first time that the lines have been blurred between dreaming and astrally projecting for me.  Has anybody else been to a reddish orange astral plane?

[jub jub]

Did you witness crying, screaming or the knashing of teeth? If not then you weren't in Hell. 

[Starvingpercussionist]

On a side note, has anybody here ever tried going to the "lower planes"? I know there are probably innumerable planes in the astral, and I just figured this one was one of the lower ones since it was kind of creepy when I couldn't say "clarity now", and everything was reddish orange. Anybody have any other explanations? 

[Starvingpercussionist]

Did you witness crying, screaming or the knashing of teeth? If not then you weren't in Hell. 

I wasn't there for long enough to see anybody else, so I dunno. You're probably right though, it probably wasn't hell, at least I hope not.

[Awakened_Mind]

Well the word 'hell' I think really refers to earth. Being now in this physical realm. The heavens were above which are the stars and hell below, the earth. Personally I see the conventional concept of hell, an inferno of pain, as being a tool for religious institutions to scare people in to given them their money. Some kind of tool used so people sacfrice their individual power to somebody else for control.

Even if it were real, you'd have to have a real low vibrational energy to get there. I'd say the lowest possible. In full you'd be a very psychopathic murderous individual in waking life. Someone living in fear with no belief in love. You're not like that ... are you? 

-AM

[Starvingpercussionist]

Lol, I agree with you there. I probably should've put hell in quotation marks because I thought that the astral planes were like half lower and half upper, or something, and that I might have went to one of the lower ones because my energy was so low, or possibly because I have a lot of anger inside. I know that the plane you go to always matches your vibrational state. I don't believe in any religion, by the way.

[Greytraveller]

Just a personal opinion here - yet it is an opinion based on personal experiences AND backed by many esoteric/occult theories  ---
The Earth-bound immediate ethereal/RTZ IS a lower astral level. It is popluated by many troubled and violent and negative discarnate beings. Most are ghosts who were violent and troubled during their physical lives and have not yet 'moved on' to another level.
That being said this Earth-bound level of the ethereal/RTZ is Far from the Lowest astral level. Yet an OBEer can still encounter violent discarnates from time to time ! 

Grey

So be careful

[Alan McDougall]

Starvingperson,

Hi,

During my NDE I experienced hell like realms and heavily realms, but not the Christian fundamentalist hell of eternal everlasting torment. If this were the truth then God is worse than Hitler. 

If one thinks deeply about the view most fundamental Christian believe about hell. It is completely horrific and unspeakable cruel. Think about a person because of a "finite transgression", being tormented by an "infinite being" in an "infinite way". Burning in a lake sulfur for an eternity day and night forever and ever in linear time. Exist in torment forever, God do this, not my lovely father God!!!!!!

A second in this place would be hideous beyond human thought. Think of taking a little child's hand and forcing it onto red-hot burning stove plate for just 10 minutes, would God do the same and infinitely worse to a human soul forever, and not allow this soul to ever expire.

A former friend , now Christian fundamentalist says because of what I have just stated to the forum and him, my  eternal destiny is the hell I don't believe in.

I retract my thoughts in horror and cannot rap my brain round from this unspeakable belief. If there is a devil it is more likely to do this kind of evil. not God, who will purge a soul from its wrong and reintroduce it into the cosmic family of sentient souls when it is ready.

That unredeemable souls might be annihilated is a possibility

Where you in hell?  you were not!!!

Hell or no Hell "NO HELL IS MY ANSWER BUT DARK REGIONS YES!! "

Yours

Alan

[mjm]

...If one thinks deeply about the view most fundamental Christian believe about hell. It is completely horrific and unspeakable cruel. Think about a person because of a "finite transgression", being tormented by an "infinite being" in an "infinite way"...

I think your premise is faulty. Consider the following points by Jonathan Edwards, and see if you can figure out why:

1) "A crime [transgression] is more or less heinous, according as we are under greater or less obligations to the contrary... because it is herein that the criminalness or faultiness of any thing consists, that it is contrary to what we are obliged or bound to, or what ought to be in us."

2) "The fault of disobeying another, is greater or less, as any one is under greater or less obligations to obey him. And therefore if there be any being that we are under infinite obligations to love, and honour, and obey, the contrary towards him must be infinitely faulty."

From these points Edwards draws the following conclusion:

"...sin against God, being a violation of infinite obligations, must be a crime infinitely heinous... Nothing is more agreeable to the common sense of mankind, than the sins committed against any one, must be proportionably heinous to the dignity of the being offended and abused."

Quotes taken from the essay, "The Justice of God in the Damnation of Sinners", by Jonathan Edwards

-Michael

[Alan McDougall]

mjm,

2) "The fault of disobeying another, is greater or less, as any one is under greater or less obligations to obey him. And therefore if there be any being that we are under infinite obligations to love, and honour, and obey, the contrary towards him must be infinitely faulty."

I see this as somewhat of an ambiguous statement. But I simply cant except that tiny minute infinitesimal organism like us can worry an Infinite Being to the degree that it would punish infinitely for a finite transgression against ourselves

I am a amateur astronomer and when you consider us in relation to the grand order of things, we are very minute indeed. Reducing a colossal star to the size of a pumpkin and putting our supposedly huge sun next to it to compare, it would not smaller than one pixel.

Now our earth is a million times smaller than the sun and we would need an electron microscope to see it on this scale.

Now look a little further down the scale, on this microscope scale or world  that, cannot even be  seen through a electron microscope , is a biological organism calling itself "humanity" that on this scale would make a quantum particle would exceed the real size of our sun or maybe even a red giant star (a star is just a sun like ours)

Now this "entity" a thing it calls itself "humanity" thinks  it is very important, very important indeed
made in the image of the Infinite and, therefore, thinks this inconceivable Infinite Being must punish it for its tiny weenie transgression in an "INFINITE HORRIBLE WAY FOREVER "

Man!!!!!!! are we that important in the grand order of things by this comparison of "solar systems", and on the much grander order of the "billions of times grand order of galaxies" and the "greater grand order of the whole universe and the INFINITE GRAND ORDER EXISTENCE. Come on be real.

Of course if one insists God will give in and can punish infinitely, sort  it would be meaningless to him, sort of us keeping alive a roach burning forever just for fun

Our little world out in a remote corner within a galaxy of 400 billion stars which is a universe containing at least 400 billion other galaxies that important and are we that special?

We must get our true importance in its real true perspective, mankind has a long way to go!!
Alan

Alan

[mjm]

mjm,

I see this as somewhat of an ambiguous statement.

In what way?

But I simply cant except that tiny minute infinitesimal organism like us can worry an Infinite Being to the degree that it would punish infinitely for a finite transgression against ourselves...

But we're not talking about finite transgression, nor are we talking about transgression against ourselves. We're talking about transgression against an infinite being (an infinitely Holy being, actually). What you're trying to do here is quantify transgression in such a manner as to lessen it's offensiveness: 1) by calling it finite, and 2) through redirection (note that the offended party has changed above from that of an infinite being to that of ourselves).

Come on Alan.... what's up? 

[Starvingpercussionist]

Interesting dialogue  . I'll put my two cents in. I don't believe in a thing called justice at all. I think that justice is really an illusion based on a relative and shortsighted perspective. I believe that infinite love really is the only answer, because only in its light can all illusions of pain, hatred, and fear be released. You could argue against that all you want but the truth is, as far as I see it, if you've never felt infinite love you can't know that it really is the only thing we want. Justice be damned. The criminal wants as much love as the innocent since real love is limitless. It makes sense to me that if infinite love is the answer, then the truth can't be argued for or against. There really is no opposite to infinite love, because it is infinite and all encompassing, and yet it can only be found within yourself. Whenever you look inside and don't find infinite love, ask yourself if you're truly in the moment, or if some thoughtforms are holding you to some preconceived idea of the present based upon past experiences. The ego is very clever, and you can't even argue against it, because it really is nothing but an ongoing conversation. Only silence stops it in its tracks, but holding the silence is the real challenge. 

By the way, Alan, I think that the plane of existence you go to upon physical death merely matches your vibrational state. I've had a real lack of energy so I thought I might have gone to one of the lower ones. Probably not though.

[Alan McDougall]

Starving guy,

Heck!! I hope you are not hungry now (just kidding)

You said

By the way, Alan, I think that the plane of existence you go to upon physical death merely matches your vibrational state. I've had a real lack of energy so I thought I might have gone to one of the lower ones. Probably not though.

I don't think you went to a lower vibratory state , just experienced it briefly for learning

Mjm

To give another take on how unimportant we really are. If you took all the humans that were ever born and squeezed out all the empty space in them you could condense the whole lot into the volume of a small sugar cube. This state exist as a reality in a neutron star where a spoonful of matter would outweigh mount Everest.

Of course this in not the end of the story, humanity can be compacted even further compressed into a mini black hole and vanish from the universe

I have more on this subject, however, God is light and in him is no darkness whatsoever. show me a human that is made in this image?

I am not finished with this topic and we are not as "unimportant" as I previously wrongly indicated , can you think why???

Post your reply and we can continue to dialogue, if you like!!

Alan

[loppoppy]

I have more on this subject, however, God is light and in him is no darkness whatsoever. show me a human that is made in this image?

I am not finished with this topic and we are not as "unimportant" as I previously wrongly indicated , can you think why???

thought i'd join in here, alan your discussions are always very interesting =).
Every human soul is made in this image, it is the physical mind that holds and tempts the darkness, our souls are just like God, our true selves are light and in them holds no darkness. and if they do, it is because they have been exposed to negative forces, something that would never happen to god way up where "he" is.

secondly, we are most definitely not unimportant, we are extremely important, maybe not to the huge workings of this physical universe, but if you think outside the box we are!

these types of discussion raise much debate, there are many different opinions on things such as this so the result of all of this could just be endless debate and disagreement, maybe...=)

[Alan McDougall]

loppoppy,

Yes we are not unimportant! our physical size has nothing to do with our importance.Take the human brain, 3 pound sponge like organ you can hold in one hand. And yet with this tiny human brain we can comprehend so much about the huge universe, creation, purpose, death , life and existence.

We are made in the image God but of course not in the physical sense, but mental. We are "thought" and God is "Ultimate Original Thought".

Thought, mind or soul will expand into infinity, and infinity is our destination

Everything that exists has always existed nothing new can come into existence, existence just changes form like energy.

Regards

It is nice to have another whose thinking is not confined into a box of their present level of understanding.

Alan