Awful Astral Expiriences, help?

[Drakoreo]

I finally was able to astral project last night, and had a remarkable 3 in a row,
But each were absolutely awful! Everything I tried to do wouldnt work out, the entire expirience was frustrating, disappointing, and made me lose a lot of enjoyment involving astral travel.

I tried to go to space, and kept falling, I tried to meet any kind of spirit guides, and it failed terribly. I got so angry trying to fly. I know that they respond to the mind, and i was expecting i could do it, because i was doing it before! i have no idea why im falling again ):

So i gave up on that because i started waking up, then started another projection, and decided id try finding any guidance but found myself wondering around the park outside my house without any luck until i started  to wake up again, so i induced a 3rd projection and (stupidly) tried flying again, and same results >_< its like i have zero control, and the astral realm is completely boring and has nothing to do or offer. I feel completely abandoned and like the astral realm is fighting against me. I just feel powerless and like it's all so pointless.. I have no control at all... Every little thing is so mich energy & so hard to do & ends up not working out...
Its all so hard!!  Ugh im so frustrated T_T and at the time i was calm & confidient & everything & it still didnt work!!
Im having such a hard time & such poor experiences
Any advice?

[Bluefirephoenix]

I sounds like you have a fear issue.  Try accepting whatever comes without expectations. Observe very carefully what you experience. with each item in the experience break out into componants for example a house is shelter, security a starting point, foundation, a place where everything happens. Take each piece and break it down like that. What is in the vision should give you some clues as to what is happening. Belief is not what you want to believe it is is the actual content of your mind. your needs may be different than your wants and your getting stuck between them. Work with your needs first. It looks like the greatest need here is to feel safe. Approach it from an observational angle instead of having goals to accomplish and I think you can break it loose a bit. There are guides there you cannot see them because your not functioning at a level of perception that is able to percieve them as form. Assume that they are present and ask for help as if they are there with you. I think what will happen as you make that assumption you will eventually be able to perceive something. You may not hear them at first. Just follow your inner voice until you break through the illusion

[Astralsuzy]

 Bluefirephoenix gave you great advice.   This may not be the answer.   Perhaps you think you can do things but your inner self thinks differently.   You need to convince your inner self that you can do it.   What I do is, I say during the day to myself everyday I can do it.   It is easy.   Convince yourself that you can do it.   I would start with one thing first.   If you start saying too many things it might not work as well.   You might start off with flying.   You can say I can fly well or whatever you want to say and when you can do that say something else that you are having problems with. 

[Szaxx]

Your mindset is clearly wrong.
Try and be rather than try to do.
To attain an awareness and no more is enough.
Read up on the void and make it your destination. Just be totally alone in the blackness for as long as you can.
You'll find your answer then.
Remove all aggression from within you and you'll go places.

[AstralPhreak]

Don't doubt yourself and don't stop enjoying astral projection because of few failures(if you can even call them like that). It happens to everyone, maybe you should take a few days just to relax and meditate. Fear is the greatest threat here. Just relax, sometimes you can't control just about everything. Practise makes perfect 

[EscapeVelocity]

Drakoreo,
everyone is giving you solid advice here. My opinion is that it is largely an issue of understanding the mindset that you need in these experiences. In your physical life, if you are impulsive, demanding and prone to anger and emotional outbursts, then this needs to be brought under control, because in the NP, this type of mindset will get you nowhere; even if in Physical life this is a minor issue, the NP magnifies these issues to the next level.

Beyond the Physical, the NP requires an extra degree of emotional control...and until we learn, we get continued challenges to do so, even as early as you are experiencing them. It is interesting that most people get to fly around town a few times, fly off into space, chase a few girls/boys...that is, have several unencumbered experiences before we realize that we are now actually being challenged and tested in various ways, beginning with the most basic of emotions and motivations. In your case, it seems the tests are beginning almost immediately, with basic understanding of navigation and movement. You want to fly and the test is just how to move, to know where you are and the understanding involved; these basics can be very frustrating.
Fast forward to when you might think that you know where you are and what you are doing...My 'Back to School' experience is a good example: Even though I entered within an excellent full-technicolor experience, all bright-eyed and confident: I had the entrance under control, I had nearly 100% lucidity, and as a result of the challenge I was put into, I ended up totally and completely confused and frustrated...a lesson in how much my mindset needed to change at the time.

Just my opinion and perspective.

[Positive3]

Part from "EscapeVelocidy's" Text

It is interesting that most people get to fly around town a few times, fly off into space, chase a few girls/boys...that is, have several unencumbered experiences before we realize that we are now actually being challenged and tested in various ways, beginning with the most basic of emotions and motivations. In your case, it seems the tests are beginning almost immediately, with basic understanding of navigation and movement. You want to fly and the test is just how to move, to know where you are and the understanding involved; these basics can be very frustrating.

Who does acutally that tests ? - Your mind , spirit guards or?

[ThaomasOfGrey]

Who does acutally that tests ? - Your mind , spirit guards or?

I believe the test comes from yourself. You create it when you set your goals as one thing, but you are not mentally prepared to do it. For example your goal might be simply to Astral Project, but there isn't much you can do to rationalize away the fear the first time you experience the abyss. Perhaps your goals are to fly in the astral, but you haven't learned to control basic walking yet. This establishes a test because there are perquisites to achieving your goal.

[Lumaza]

Who does acutally that tests ? - Your mind , spirit guards or?

I have in the past and still do question this today. I made a thread based on this premise and question in the past here, but it really did not get a lot of feedback.

At first I felt that everything was self-imposed. That it was our "higher self" that was 100% responsible for all of the "tests, quests and challenges" that we experience in the "other realms". But the deeper I got into conscious projection the more my thinking changed.

I then came to the conclusion that it was "Spirit Guides" that were guiding our experiences there. But then I changed that thinking upon witnessing even more.

There is some kind of "structure" there. That structure has dos and don'ts. That structure has rules and if you don't abide by them, you will find yourself in some kind of "Astral Timeout". I'm sure this gets you laughing and I thought it was a joke too. I personally experienced a "ban" of sorts. The words "Astral Police" have been used on this Forum as well. Use that phrase in a Forum search and you will find more posts and threads that speak on this topic here.

Also, some people experience and aid in "Retrievals" there. For that to be possible there has to be some kind of structure. If there wasn't, then who is responsible for directing us towards the souls that needed to be retrieved and if there wasn't structure why would anyone need to be retrieved? There are more questions then answers when you begin to learn more about how and why something works in any realm, this physical one included.

Many people that experience NDEs speak of a tunnel that they and other deceased people are walking through. If there is a such a thing, then someone must have made this "tunnel concept". Upon further investigation the researchers found that these people had no knowledge whatsoever beforehand of what a NDE even was. So the idea that they all just simply made it up doesn't seem plausible at all.

[Szaxx]

It's great thinking its all self created and every experience is based on this.
How can a four year old fly and feel safe in a dark woods in the early hours knowing it's a banned location?
How can a 9 year old see places that won't exist until 20+ years have passed?
These are way beyond the knowledge base for that age.
Things seen have all happened. It's a pity all school work isn't recorded from loong ago. I'm sure many more verifications would be uncovered.
There's so much going on that it's way outside the limits of the human mind. Learn the art and get into these labeled 'higher places' that have no form.
Only then will you start to see what holds true.

[EscapeVelocity]

My thinking on the question of Guidance hasn't changed over the years so much as it keeps expanding. I think, depending on the situation, it is a combination of both; guidance can come from inside or outside ourselves, and ultimately it's all ONE anyway.

My initial experiences were reasonably explained by internal, possibly instinctive mechanisms, possibly Inner Self or Higher Self governed: I am speaking of hypnogogia, exit sensations, SP and the bizarre and potentially frightening Night Hag/Dweller/Sinister Presence that often occurs while still in, or within close proximity to the physical body. These are among the earliest of "tests" I recognize, dealing primarily with Fear issues. The Incubus/Succubus also occurs at this time and obviously involves sexual control.

The next level of testing deals with general ideas of environment recognition, vision, mobility, navigation, gaining greater and more stable lucidity, etcetera. For many early projectors these experiences mostly take place in an environment that seems to fairly closely resemble the Physical world: In Monroe parlance it was called Locale 1, in Theosophic terms it is the Etheric Plane, more modern terms are Near Physical or Real Time Zone, Aardema calls it the Physical Field, Kepple F1. This testing can all still be an inner/higher self functioning but might also involve outside guidance by non-physical entities. Kurt Leland's writings lean towards the latter idea and really gives good advice for how to change your perspective when you find yourself stuck.

The next area we learn to experience is more complex, varied and greatly expanded over the first. It is variously referred to as Locale 2, the Astral, the Personal Astral, the Personal Field, Kepple F2. It also clearly involves your personal dream space early on. Here the testing becomes much more complex and nuanced but it appears that much of the subject material and especially particular details and people, are drawn from the individuals' subconscious memory. Outside guidance seems to increase as these experiences progress.

Given a number of experiences within this area of consciousness, deeper and still more complex experiences can open up and in no particular order; the dividing lines can be somewhat blurry at times. Even so, this clearly indicates a progression through a "system" or "structure" as Lumaza points out; for me, it feels like a definite hierarchy is involved. And as Szaxx points out, the environments/situations we find ourselves in and the new abilities experienced strongly point towards increasing outside encouragement/guidance.
Whatever we call this area of consciousness: mixtures of the higher Focus Levels in the Monroe model, the Collective Astral, the Astral Proper, the Mental Plane, the Collective Field, Kepple F3; the opportunities/challenges for experiencing and learning are seemingly endless. This area appears to include the higher Afterlife/Heaven areas but entrance is only gained (with rare exceptions) after demonstrating sufficient control and understanding of the preceding areas.

Beyond this we move into what Szaxx describes as the "formless" realms, which language largely fails to describe with any adequacy. They may correspond with Monroe's highest F levels, upper Mental, Causal and Buddhic Planes, and Kepple's F4.

Oh yeah...it's a busy place

[ThaomasOfGrey]

There is some kind of "structure" there. That structure has dos and don'ts. That structure has rules and if you don't abide by them, you will find yourself in some kind of "Astral Timeout". I'm sure this gets you laughing and I thought it was a joke too. I personally experienced a "ban" of sorts. The words "Astral Police" have been used on this Forum as well. Use that phrase in a Forum search and you will find more posts and threads that speak on this topic here.

That is fascinating, I assume that an astral timeout means you are just mysteriously unable to project or dream for a while. I suppose I do find it hard to believe - what if you tried to force your way in with a powerful psychedelic?

I did a search on astral police and found Szaxx's account of visiting the Whitehouse. That really blew my mind.

Also, some people experience and aid in "Retrievals" there. For that to be possible there has to be some kind of structure. If there wasn't, then who is responsible for directing us towards the souls that needed to be retrieved and if there wasn't structure why would anyone need to be retrieved? There are more questions then answers when you begin to learn more about how and why something works in any realm, this physical one included.

What about the possibility of an intangible force that connects consciousness. For example you put a question out to the universe and the answer finds you through a person with no direct relation. Perhaps the retrievals are magically determined by what souls resonate in that moment through relevant experience.

Many people that experience NDEs speak of a tunnel that they and other deceased people are walking through. If there is a such a thing, then someone must have made this "tunnel concept". Upon further investigation the researchers found that these people had no knowledge whatsoever beforehand of what a NDE even was. So the idea that they all just simply made it up doesn't seem plausible at all.

Almost all accounts of Alien Abduction in the US are also described the same way. What they describe sounds exactly like sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming but a widespread notion of aliens generates a consistent experience. If you jump overseas to Japan you find the same sleep paralysis episodes but the evil entity is always ghosts like the movie The Grudge because that is what people there think about.

I would imagine that most people are aware of the tunnel concept being associated with death even if they have never heard of a near death experience. My partner's grandmother also experienced the same tunnel. People on DMT trips tend to also describe it, but if you went to a location where the core beliefs are that it would be a green jungle I suspect they would experience that instead.

[Lumaza]

First off EXCELLENT feedback guys. Finally we have opened a conversation on the Astral Pulse that is near and dear to me!  

That is fascinating, I assume that an astral timeout means you are just mysteriously unable to project or dream for a while. I suppose I do find it hard to believe - what if you tried to force your way in with a powerful psychedelic?

Good question. I never attempted it, so I can't answer that. All I know is I was specifically told something. I went against it not realizing the seriousness of the instruction and found myself unable to access the "other realms" through any of my techniques that previously were successful Now, I would have just written that off as pure coincidence, except for the fact that when I finally could get back 3 weeks later, I was told in uncertain terms that that was why I was unable to and next time to heed what was said. I didn't take up conscious projection as a "cool I can fly" thing. When I first began, I was all in and I put my intent out that I would be a good pupil and learn all I could. That I was dead serious about this.

I did a search on astral police and found Szaxx's account of visiting the Whitehouse. That really blew my mind.
What about the possibility of an intangible force that connects consciousness. For example you put a question out to the universe and the answer finds you through a person with no direct relation. Perhaps the retrievals are magically determined by what souls resonate in that moment through relevant experience.

I also had quite an "Astral Police" adventure. I found myself in a foreign neighborhood. The local kids were doing tricks on their Skateboards. After awhile of watching them I asked them if they wanted to see something really cool. I then leapt from the spot I was up to the roof of the home across the street. The kids freaked out, but not in a good way. The next thing I knew I had some "Police" chasing me along the rooftops. Needless to say, I aborted that session soon afterwards, lol.
My first Retrieval was spontaneous. I didn't even know what it was when it occurred, until I came here to the Astral Pulse, shared my adventure and was told by members here what it was. My user name at the time was "Lionheart". I started this thread.http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_projection_experiences/souly_for_retrievals-t37273.0.html
After a time they became a regular event. But now they seem to be much more sporadic. They themselves show that there is "structure" in the other realms.

Almost all accounts of Alien Abduction in the US are also described the same way. What they describe sounds exactly like sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming but a widespread notion of aliens generates a consistent experience. If you jump overseas to Japan you find the same sleep paralysis episodes but the evil entity is always ghosts like the movie The Grudge because that is what people there think about.

I would imagine that most people are aware of the tunnel concept being associated with death even if they have never heard of a near death experience. My partner's grandmother also experienced the same tunnel. People on DMT trips tend to also describe it, but if you went to a location where the core beliefs are that it would be a green jungle I suspect they would experience that instead.

That is very true about the Alien abduction scenarios. Those are actually reported "World wide" though. But different cultures do have a different take on SP. The "Old Hag" is just one of them and yes that is due solely to their personal beliefs.  They don't encounter that through NDEs though. They are stuck in SP and we know that this is a period where thought = action. I'm sure a person that has just passed over is not thinking of walking in a tunnel with others that have done the same. I have a friend, or should I say had one, he transitioned 2 months ago, he had a couple of life altering NDEs about 5 years ago. He had liver failure and died. They replaced it. It didn't take, infection set in and he died again. What I could see was that he was given 5 years to set his life straight, to right all of his wrongs. When he came back, he was a completely different person. My wife named him the "Good Randy". She never cared for the old one. But he died for good of a heart attack 2 months ago in his living room.

So yes the "core beliefs" are definitely responsible for many of our SP/AP adventures. But I see it's different in NDEs. These people don't know they are returning. They are experiencing this new realm and at the moment are "all in" as well, but not by their own admission.

Szaxx and EscapeVelcocity, I couldn't add anything to what you have already said if I tried. Once again, you hit a BULLSEYE!  
EV, I especially enjoyed the way that you incorporated Frank's, Kurt's, Robert's and Fred's view on this. It shows they are all talking about the same areas and places, but using their own words and terminology to describe them.

[IsayWhaat]

I finally was able to astral project last night, and had a remarkable 3 in a row,
But each were absolutely awful! Everything I tried to do wouldnt work out, the entire expirience was frustrating, disappointing, and made me lose a lot of enjoyment involving astral travel.

I tried to go to space, and kept falling, I tried to meet any kind of spirit guides, and it failed terribly. I got so angry trying to fly. I know that they respond to the mind, and i was expecting i could do it, because i was doing it before! i have no idea why im falling again ):

So i gave up on that because i started waking up, then started another projection, and decided id try finding any guidance but found myself wondering around the park outside my house without any luck until i started  to wake up again, so i induced a 3rd projection and (stupidly) tried flying again, and same results >_< its like i have zero control, and the astral realm is completely boring and has nothing to do or offer. I feel completely abandoned and like the astral realm is fighting against me. I just feel powerless and like it's all so pointless.. I have no control at all... Every little thing is so mich energy & so hard to do & ends up not working out...
Its all so hard!!  Ugh im so frustrated T_T and at the time i was calm & confidient & everything & it still didnt work!!
Im having such a hard time & such poor experiences
Any advice?

I feel you. I also didn't have control and it was frustrating. It still is, as I can do ANYTHING in my experience except changing the theme. It's always night in my experiences. Always. 10/10 experiences are happening during night time and I can't change that. I can fly, I can create what I want, but I can't switch moon with sun and I can't light up the sky and have it all blue and white instead of black. :/

What I found useful about getting control of my experience is the intent that Xanth has explained in his article. If you want something to happen you HAVE TO DO IT. Wishing for it to happen, believing for it to happen, dreaming for it to happen, screaming for it to happen, ordering it to happen. NOTHING will make it happen. Not one of those things. You just have to DO it. I don't know how exactly, but that's how that crazy intent thing works and you gotta learn it for yourself.

[Lumaza]

 You know there's another way to look at this as well. Perhaps you landed in a place that you "needed" to be in. Maybe there is something there that would help your further development. I always read how everyone wants to "change" things there. Why not explore where you are and find the purpose why you are there in the first place?

Believe me, when you begin to explore" you will have no problem at all finding all kinds of interesting adventures awaiting you there. Let your "curiosity" be your driving force.

[IsayWhaat]

You know there's another way to look at this as well. Perhaps you landed in a place that you "needed" to be in. Maybe there is something there that would help your further development. I always read how everyone wants to "change" things there. Why not explore where you are and find the purpose why you are there in the first place?

Believe me, when you begin to explore" you will have no problem at all finding all kinds of interesting adventures awaiting you there. Let your "curiosity" be your driving force.

Well, it's kinda frustrating to be in the dark constantly. I just wish to "switch the light on". But yeah, I understand what you mean by exploring.

[Szaxx]

You're in the dark because you need to learn how to switch the light on.
If you have desire, add the intent.

[Lumaza]

Well, it's kinda frustrating to be in the dark constantly. I just wish to "switch the light on". But yeah, I understand what you mean by exploring.

...what's that in my hand? A flashlight. How did that get there? Every explorer needs a flashlight in a dark cave!