Newbie questions (again) :)

[Astral Projection]

I hope you will forgive me because of bad English

Few months ago I started to read about AP. One night when I went to bed I was so obsessed whit this topic and next thing I remember was that I was feeling vibes and hearing some sounds. And then I, kinda, forced myself to leave the body. I was floating above my bed for approximately half minute and then something forced me back to my body. I'm not sure if this was OBE or just dream about having it.
Anyway, up 'till today I wasn't able to project (again, if I did it). I can't fall into trance state. Every day or night, I lie in bed and I relax my body and concentrate on breathing. About hour I lie down and nothing happens. How much time do I have to stay in this relaxed state, to fall into trance?

I read that in astral body we have 360 degrees view. Is that true? Is it hard to get used to it?

On astralprojectiontruth.com I read about areas of consciousness. If I understood it well, Frank says that there are three areas. So, are Mental, Buddhic, Nirvanic worlds also areas of consciousness?

I also read that time in astral is extended. That minute in physical world last about hour in astral. Is that true? If it is we can be in astral for 10 hours and that would be 10-20 mins in physical world, right?

Do I have to be in REM sleep, to experience AP? Lucid Dreams occurs in that stage.

Again I will tell what I read..
Future Wind... When it takes you to the future are you in RTZ or in Astral?


That are my questions (for now:))
P.S. Can you tell me what do you thing about my experience? Was that OBE or dream?

Cheers

[Michael_E]

Hi Astral Projection,

About time: Time seems to be able to speed up and slow down oob simularly to how it can while awake. Time flys when your having fun and a watched pot doesnt whistle come to mind, you are definitely affecting the world of reality you are conscious in, especially when it comes to time, yourself and your environment.

You dont have to be in REM to have an oobe, although the chances of having and oobe while in REM is higher than when it isn't.

[Frank]

Hi:

I'm not sure on the exact answer to your question as a lot of the mystical stuff is highly convoluted and lots of it seems to get lost in translation. For example, witness how people argue over various meanings in the bible caused through various translators putting the accent on various aspects, etc.

There are 4 primary areas of consciousness that I labelled Focus 1 to Focus 4. Since coming across this, I've flipped through various mystical works and it would appear, in the midst of all the ornately-worded stuff, that some of the early teachings also point out that consciousness is sort-of "divided" into 4 primary areas also. For example, I do very much believe that the Christian: Body, Psyche, Soul and Spirit originally referred to the 4 primary areas or focuses of attention. But like much of the old mystical works, the original teachings have just gotten lost under layer upon layer of confusion.

Always remember these areas are not places, they are focuses of attention. Lot's of people make the mistake of thinking they are "travelling" to another place. What you are actually doing is going within you own self.

So when you project you are not actually within "the astral" you are within you. It's just that people tend to objectify their experiences. You have areas of consciousness that are singular to you. Which would be Focus 2 of the Phasing Model and you have common areas in consciousness, for example, Focus 3. But these areas are not separate from you, they are all you in the sense of the Wider You.

One of the works I studied was about Judaism, not that I know much about it. But in the midst of all the ornate lingo it was sort-of obvious (well, to me at any rate) that what they are calling the World of Emanation sounds like Focus 4 of the Phasing Model. But what they are saying is all wrapped up with the notions of God being the creator and stuff. When Focus 4 is simply our archetype, the area that contains the source of all possible actions in consciousness within our system. But again, what they have done is objectify everything. I always think it doubly ironic how people can objectify Focus 4 of consciousness, as Focus 4 is a purely subjective area.

The Judaism World of Creation, World of Formation and World of Action, I reckon is virtually certain to be Focus 3, 2 and 1 of the Phasing Model, respectively. But as to whether the "planes" you are talking about bear any relevance to the Phasing Model to be honest, I doubt it. Problem is, these "astral planes" vary depending on which mystic or book you happen to believe. One of the main reasons for that is because people have not realised they were projecting within their own individual areas in consciousness, or Focus 2 of the Phasing Model.

You can always tell this because mystics tend to speak in terms of "levels". Anything "below" the level they say that the heavens and hells are situated but "above" the physical, is Focus 2 of the Phasing Model, which is your own individual area in consciousness.

Here you typically see the objective manifestations of your own belief constructs. So if you believe that there are 7 planes with 7 sub-planes, or demons and devils, or whatever, whatever then that is what will become your reality. So people project with the notion of xyz, they see the objective manifestation of their belief in the notion of xyz. Then so, as far as they are concerned, their belief was confirmed. So the more they believe it, the more they project and see it, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Problem is, they don't actually realise they are projecting within their own mind. :)

So astral planes typically do not actually relate directly to the primary areas. More like the primary areas "contain" these notions of astral planes, or whatever notions you happen to subscribe to are all contained within these areas.

To give you an idea, a  Primary Area you can think of like a town. An "astral plane" would be a district within that town, an "astral sub plane" would be a street within that district. So the street would relate to the district, as the street would be contained within the district, in turn, the district would be contained within the town.

When you lie down and nothing happens, this is kinda typical of what happens to many people. What I would suggest you do is to try turning your focus of attention inwards. Because it is the act of turning your attention inwards that kicks everything off.

You don't actually have to think of your body or your breathing at all. People do, and if that works then all well and good.

But what I found far more productive, for me, was to utilise the Noticing exercise I have talked about in the FAQ section, together with creating a simple mental rundown in order to make what I call "the switch" to Focus 2 of consciousness. That way you turn your focus inwards and forget about your breathing or your physical body. You just "let them go" and turn your attention within yourself.

Yours,
Frank

[Astral Projection]

So, you are saying that there is no such thing as astral projection? That APers actually travel within their own selves? What about meeting other APers or OBE in RTZ?

Stephen LaBerge proved that lucid dreams occur in REM state. So people claim that only difference between AP and LD is that while APing you are aware of whole separation but in LD you don't remember separation. That's why I asked is AP occurring in REM sleep.

Do some of you have some web site where are described other "planes" (Buddhic, Nirvanic, Adi...)?

[Frank]

Hi:

Astral Projection exists as a belief construct that is usually enacted within Focus 2 of consciousness. But there is no such separate place that is "the astral". You could say that "the astral" was your wider self. It's all you, and you are actually projecting within your own mind. So not only "APers" but anyone else too.

It's just that 1) people believe the mind is somehow contained within the physical brain, 2) people objectify everything and, 3) people don't realise the sheer extent to which their own mind extends.

People will wander around "the astral" and not actually realise they are wandering around their own mind. Plus, consciousness is not merely a product of the physical brain, although please don't ask me to prove that unless you have at least a £10,000,000 research grant available, lol. And people fail to realise that what they see as an objective scenario, is merely an objective translation of the underlying subjective experience.

Within the wider you, you have areas of individual consciousness and areas of consciousness in common with others. So if you want to meet up with someone, then you'd meet in a common area, such as Focus 3 or in the physical within Focus 1. When I say the physical this would include an RTZ projection, yes.

My years of empirical experience of astral projection –versus- lucid dreaming, would suggest to me, as I've mentioned oodles of times, there is no real difference between the two. The deciding or determining factors are the person's expectations and their relative level of awareness.

Though I don't concur with the separation theories.

Problem is, people believe in "separation" because they are still thinking in terms of going to some "other place" and they don't realise that when they are wandering around what they call "the astral" they are, in fact, within their own mind.

You cannot separate yourself from yourself, as it is all yourself. There is no place in consciousness that you do not already occupy. So there is nowhere you can go where you were not already at before you set off. Because it's all you.

It's just that people get body-fixated and, in doing so, they fail to realise how "far" they extend. But a body is merely an objective representation of the accumulation of a particular set of expectations regarding the enactment of certain types of actions within particular areas of consciousness. It holds no other purpose.

Yours,
Frank

[Novice]

I'll take a quick stab at this as well.

Regarding meeting others 'in the astral' yes it can be done and is done. But that doesn't mean that you have to actually 'travel' somewhere to meet. If you subscribe to the buddhic levels you are inquiring about, then you could possibly link this concept to each individual person being always linked to The One, God, Brahma, Universe, whatever word you want to use.

Taking that one step further, because we are all linked to them, we could say that we are each a consciousness that is interconnected with each other on multiple overlapping levels, so to speak. We simply are rarely ever aware of it. So it is possible while you are awake and at work, for part of your consciousness to be meeting with someone else and you simply are not aware of the event. It is because your focus of consciousness/awareness is placed elsewhere at the moment. Sometimes the events will slip through to your waking consciousness, but not always.

As for time in the astral, its been my experience that time does not exist in the Astral plane.

Hope that helps a bit.

[MisterJingo]

I'll take a quick stab at this as well.
Taking that one step further, because we are all linked to them, we could say that we are each a consciousness that is interconnected with each other on multiple overlapping levels, so to speak. We simply are rarely ever aware of it. So it is possible while you are awake and at work, for part of your consciousness to be meeting with someone else and you simply are not aware of the event. It is because your focus of consciousness/awareness is placed elsewhere at the moment. Sometimes the events will slip through to your waking consciousness, but not always.

Couldn't this be taken even further to suggest that we are not each a consciousness but the exact same consciousness? Seemingly individual difference/speration being derived from areas of belief system fragmenting a whole into individual centers of focus?

[Michael_E]

Stephen LaBerge proved that lucid dreams occur in REM state. So people claim that only difference between AP and LD is that while APing you are aware of whole separation but in LD you don't remember separation. That's why I asked is AP occurring in REM sleep.
quote]

Hi AP!,

Stephen showed that a good number of the lucid dreams we have occur during typical REM stages, but not all of them. I believe in the study that showed this the outliers were wake induced lucid dreams, which in my case also happen to be RTZ projections. I can remember having only a couple wake induced lucids that didnt follow typical RTZ projection characteristics, ie, vibes, sinking, floating limbs, shooting out like a bullet. I would say in my limited experience that aps and lds are occuring in your mind as frank has said but i do feel like there are innate differences between both.

[violeteye]

MisterJingo

Couldn't this be taken even further to suggest that we are not each a consciousness but the exact same consciousness? Seemingly individual difference/speration being derived from areas of belief system fragmenting a whole into individual centers of focus?

Yes, that certainly resonates with me.  And, If everything outside of us is a reflection of what's happening inside of us, then where does one end and the other begin?

[Novice]

MJ: Absolutely agree with that.

I don't usually go that far with my personal thoughts on this because I find most people immediately close down any thought that this scenario is possible. I was simply trying to explain to Astral Projection (the initial poster) from his perspective how Frank's theory is possible to correlate with his own current concepts. But he first needs to look past some labels people use.

Its really interesting to me how so many religious, mystical and esoteric  texts say much of the same thing regarding creation, the universe, morals, etc. As long as you don't read them literally. Yet people are so stuck on see differences, they don't want to see the underlying unity. I think people feel that identifying seperateness (you-me, us-them) is what makes them individuals. And for that reason, acknowledging one consciousness with individual coexisting consciousnesses within it (if you will) scares them for some reason. Like they wouldn't exist if they were not seperate from others.

It also threatens most of what they believe, and have believed all their lives and their parent's lives and so on. There's a lot of baggage to get through. And for that reason, many people's experiences in astral projection varies so drastically.

I know that Frank and Major Tom have written a number of times regarding subjective and objective reality. And I understand and agree with what they've written. However, I don't necessarily think the way they define them is mutually exclusive. From my understanding of their model, objective reality is physical reality because you are aware of a seperate body and typically experience things as a 3rd person (watching outside stuff happen). They attribute subjective reality to the inner consciousness/non-physical environment because usually you perceive situations experiencially (not sure I spelled that correctly) through various symbols and allegory. I agree with this totally as this has been my experience as well. But this is where some of my thoughts vary somewhat on this subject.

I intuitively think there is a stage at which one can obtain objectivity within the astral/inner realms and subjectivity within the physical realms. I just think that only a few people in history have achieved this level before.

I'm sure Frank is probably reading this shaking his head no at me, so let me elaborate what I mean.

To me, objective means viewing something without any thought or influence from the individual. Subjective means interpretating an object that we are viewing so that we can understand it. I think the astral is very subjective because for most people, what they come across or are presented with in that area is subject to their perception/interpretation of it.

For example, 3 different people, at the same time (time doesn't exist there but I'm using this so you understand that they arrive simultaneiously at this one point), can come upon 1 highly evolved entity. Let's say that one of them is a Christian, one a Buddhist, and one a scientist. The scientist would perceive the entity as simply a higher being. He may only perceive his surroundings as a simple room or maybe an open grassy area. The Christian standing at that point next to the scientist looks and perceives Jesus standing before him. He may perceive pure white around him and possibly angels singing in the background. The Buddhist, standing also next to both of them, perhaps perceives the being as Buddha or a bhadisattva (I think I spelled that wrong too). The point being that there is a common thing being presented to each of these people. But because of the subjectiveness, they each perceive the same event differently. So who is 'right?' The answer must be all of them or none of them. They each will go away with a very real, personally profound experience that will further shape their lives and beliefs. I think this is one of the reasons that there are so many different 'proofs' for various religious experiences.

Now given that example above, it probably doesn't make sense when I say you can be objective there. I think if one evolves completely you can. When I say evolves, I mean that a person has broken through all barriers and can consistently see things for what they are. At this point, this person, in the above scenario would probably only perceive pure energy or consciousness or whatever it truly is in raw form. I have no idea here because I am SOOO far away from being able to do this. But I think at that point, this individual can look at something either in the inner or physical realms and easily 'see' it as it truly exists, without any perceptions/interpretations being used. Because they've reached the point they know and live in total unity. They see and know all because they now realize they are all, or part of the all.

Wow, not sure how I was able to get all of that out first thing in the morning! I sometimes ramble when I think. And I tend to write as my thoughts travel. So I apologize for being WAY off topic here with most of my post. Anyways, those are just my thoughts on this stuff.

[Astral Projection]

I saw that on astralprojectiontruth.com Frank speaks about life after death. When person dies, it "goes" to Focus 2 (I think that I understood it well). So person then travels (again) within itself? What about silver cord? Is it "hallucination"? And what about 360 degree view?

[Astral Projection]

I had another experience yesterday, and I'm not sure what exactly happen.

  I came back from school, and I was very tired. So I went to sleep. When I was lying on my bad I tried to fall into trance state. Next thing I remember is vibrations and noise. Vibrations & noises were constantly increasing & decreasing. So I tried to 'separate'. But I wasn't able to do this. Like I was paralyzed. Then I tried to move my 'astral' hand. So I did it. I wasn't sure if that was 'astral' hand, and I opened my eyes to see if it was. I'm not sure what eyes I opened ('astral' or physical) but I saw nothing in front of me (there suppose to be my hand). I started to move my fingers and whole hand in front of me. But I still saw nothing. I placed my 'astral' arm 'in' physical arm. Then I thought "Maybe I can roll of bed". And I started to roll and roll and roll but nothing. When I saw that I can't project I got out. Whole time I was hearing some noise, noise like charger of my phone makes. But when I woke up charger wasn't there... The funny thing is that my body wasn't paralyzed. In the middle of vibrations I put my arms on my stomach and I felt it...

Is this the beginning of having AP or some dream? I'm starting to think that I will never experience AP..... until I die...

[darkhorse]

What does it all mean?
Does astral projection exit?
I really don't get it, but thats proably because i am so naive to this -and i have never had a OBE before or even try it.
I really want to though. Any tips?
As you may of guessed i am a newbie