Does WILD always equal AP?

[blade5x]

This morning, I decided to WILD, and was succesful, but once SP hit, I decided that I wouldn't "roll-out" and just waited to see where my mind would take me. Well, soon I was standing on the street infront of my house. My vision was crystal clear sharp, pobably the most clear vision I've ever had. I started running, the first 15-20 seconds felt very "OBE-like", like how my body felt, my movements, and I also saw the leaves and other objects having a type of illuminance which looked really nice as others have described what the Astral Plane looks like. But after about that 20 seconds, things started to become more dream-like, until it was fully like a dream.

I don't understand how one can go OBE and than have it turn into a dream... that would mean the Astral Plane and the dream scape are the same place!?

[kiwibonga]

When you fall asleep, the consciousness leaves the body, no matter what. Instead of being mainly concentrated in the physical, it spreads out to other areas, or dimensions -- to the subtle bodies.

During sleep, we do a lot of work that we are not conscious of unless we have a strong intention to witness it, and even then, we might not be able to comprehend it, as we work on much higher levels than our physical perceptions can understand.

Sometimes, we help people we know by "visiting them," and sometimes we help ourselves. Sometimes, the things we do can't be explained in words.

When we re-enter the body, which happens periodically, several times a night, we snap back into physical consciousness and the "memory download" Robert Bruce mentions in Astral Dynamics occurs. What happens then is that all the experiences that occured beyond the body are interpreted in terms that the physical body can understand. Due to the extremely abstract, non-physical nature of what we do at night, the result is that we will remember a dream that often makes no particular sense. (i.e. We went to the top of a mountain to find sandals so that we could bake a banana cake)

Having an out of body experience is all a matter of control. By willing yourself to the etheric, by traveling around with "real time" awareness, you are directly taking things in that are physical in nature, and that will therefore translate into things that make perfect sense to you. If you let go of this control, your subconscious will be doing the interpretations for you, and hence, things will become illogical.

We are constantly dreaming, even during the day. There is always a part of our consciousness that is beyond the physical, and that sends down memories to it, although it is much less active when you are awake.

The dream scape is very much "an illusion of the brain" -- but the source of these illusions is not (only) your brain.

So to answer your question -- a dream is a misinterpretation of an experience that occured beyond physical understanding. As soon as you can qualify a nightly experience as being an out of body experience, etheric, astral, mental, etc, projection, it is still a dream, but you were able to make sense of it, because you were there with your physical senses, and therefore nothing was lost in translation.

Reality fluctuations are the result of a loss of focus, or rather, a loss of control. This is why all beginners should not spend too much time outside of body, not only because they might lose the memories, but also because they might lose control and go into their regular nightly work experience, and therefore a dream will result, or with luck, a hybrid of a projection with a dream at the end will occur.

[blade5x]

I haven't been having this problem until recently however

My first few projections were so real. Slowly they've been becoming more and more fantasy like. THis one, seemed promosing in the beginning, to be a very realistic one, and it was... for about 20 seconds.

It wasn't real-time because the sun was setting when it should have been rising (sun was positioned in the west).

Atleast my dryspell is coming to and end and I've been able to do a few succesful WILDs recently, though I wouldn't classify them as full blown OBEs.

[Selski]

that would mean the Astral Plane and the dream scape are the same place!?

Kiwibonga explained it really well, but I'll add my bit too! 

Some people (myself included) do believe that the astral and dreamscape are the same.  Only I wouldn't use the word "place", I would say "focus". 

I was playing around with this only this morning.  I was having a reasonably high lucid dream (hence I was astral) and every so often I would switch focus to either my OBE body in my RTZ bedroom, or my physical body in my bed.  The switch back was automatic, but I was able to mentally "push" or "force" myself back into the lucid dream a number of times.

Again, as Kiwi said, it is the level of lucidity that is key.  The more lucid, the better quality experience.  Although I might have to disagree with Kiwi about the fact that experiences are more logical.  I've had some pretty bizarre experiences where I've been incredibly lucid! 

Sarah

[bounda]

wow, the same thing happened to me this morning kinda, i was in a lucid dream, but with little control, i woke up, closed my eyes, and felt the vibrations and some music, and then i went into a projection, but it turned into a dream! i had little control over it probably becuase it was my First projection EVER =D im so proud

[Mustardseed]

Interesting question and one that I have been spending many many months figuring out. As Selski I also have successfully entered left and reentered various levels of the dream scape RTZ etc. After you get the hang of it is is not so difficult. I was however in doubt of what to do there as it seems that it is only my dream and then not "real"

This has changed after I have tried a few things. In this dream scape I tried to contact many people and test them. Dream people let me do what I want. ( I often get personal by pulling up a girls sweather, or pulling a boys hair) this is a test to see if they mind. If they are NOT dream people they will react very much like in real life, grab my hand protest and so forth. Then I will explain what I am doing and why, and proceed to the next one.

Some don't even want to talk to me and run away. I especially have one guy that has followed me in several projections. He is just outside my field of vision watching me. I know he is there now and sometimes I just turn real fast and talk to him. Then he sort of backs up and leaves. I expect he is another projector. On one occasion he lept off a bridge so I know he can both fly and breathe under water.

By the way flying is another good test. Most people in dream scape cannot fly, but are un impressed.

So far I have had some very interestingencounters in a area that is very close to what is called the Belief system territories/focus. In this specific town lives a lot of people that has committed suicide, they are not separated but living among many others, who seem to have terminated their own life by continued willfull intoxication resulting in death, over eating, smoking, druguse and even extreme sports. It seems to be people who have not heeded warnings and have continued in activities that resulted eventually in their death. I call it "Sadtown". It may be a bit misleading as they are not actually sad but just unemotional and have sort of accepted things. They smile and talk to me and so forth but I am very sad when I have been there as there is so much unused potential and sad destinies.

Anyway I am rambling

Regards Mustardseed

[Arn de Gothia]

Lol Mustardseed, i think you meant skirts didn't you, you are pulling skirts

[Mustardseed]

nope I guess that makes me a boobman  pulling sweathers is what I meant, you take skirts if thats your fancy

[Leyla]

Mustardseed -

I thought you were a good Christian? Why are you attacking women? And yanking guys by their hair?

How would you like it if someone popped you in the face, to find out if you were real? Not very much.

It's no way to win friends. I see why you say they don't want to talk to you, or run away.

Surely you can find another way to distinguish between dream and astral. Have you ever thought of just asking?

This is no way to be using your abilities. You can't get away with doing whatever the hell you want out there.

It's like you're on some sort of astral crime-spree. Attacking people at random.

You're putting out a wave of negativity, and it will return back. It's like opening the door and giving permission to "negs."

[Leyla]

I think we should distinguish between WILD and AP, because we have enough trouble with people thinking we're "only dreaming."

[winged_feline]

Surely you can find another way to distinguish between dream and astral. Have you ever thought of just asking?

Well I've done this on a number of occasions in highly focused LD's (or were they AP's?) and the people always tell me that I'm insane and of course it isn't a dream, so I raise my voice a little and demand the truth and they acquiesce to say it is a dream....
There's no point to me, is it just a reflection of expectations or what is actually happening? I usually don't bother out of frustration. 

[Mustardseed]

Mustardseed -

I thought you were a good Christian? Why are you attacking women? And yanking guys by their hair?

How would you like it if someone popped you in the face, to find out if you were real? Not very much.

It's no way to win friends. I see why you say they don't want to talk to you, or run away.

Surely you can find another way to distinguish between dream and astral. Have you ever thought of just asking?

This is no way to be using your abilities. You can't get away with doing whatever the hell you want out there.

It's like you're on some sort of astral crime-spree. Attacking people at random.

You're putting out a wave of negativity, and it will return back. It's like opening the door and giving permission to "negs."

Thanks Leyla, very interesting post, and point taken. I guess I never saw it like that but I will have to give this some consideration. To explain a bit more, it's like this. I have tried all the "talking to people" but is not very effective, and often I need an instant reaction. Actually I should clarify that mostly or actually always, at the moment I reach out toward someone the person in question always seem to have one of two reactions. A "real" person will either touch my hand or sort of duck a bit or look at the hand as it moves slowly toward them, or look at it obviously noticing it. Most don't mind, but comment on my move and I actually figure out what they are before I even touch them. The ones that don't are dream people and "not real" so i guess its to make sure, I do it. They seem to have no expression or anything. When I first started to experience this it was a surprise to me, and I just could not figure out what to do. These days I am getting pretty good at it. In any case I will take your correction to mind

Apart from that I would appreciate that you would keep my faith out of this equation. The way I see it it is just another attempt at making a slur at what I believe. I do not think that I put out a wave of negativity at all, as my motives are pretty pure and it seems that everyone understand that. It is interesting that in the astral no appearance of "goodness" is accepted you cant fake people out so to speak, everyone sees what your real motive is..something that is in my favor. As far as attracting negs It does not appear that I do.

In any case I guess my method is outdated and it is about time I find a better way so .........thanks

Regards Mustardseed

[Leyla]

That's very big of you to rethink your methods, Mustardseed. You have impressed me, as I did not expect you to be so open minded. 

Also, the jig is up. If anyone here reports a boob grab, or hair-pulling, they'll know exactly who to go looking for!

I think a good rule of thumb is to only attack if you are being attacked. Only fight in self defense. Same as in real life.

It's always been very obvious to me when an "intruder" has entered my dream.

I am trying to figure out how exactly it is I tell the difference, so I can explain it.

They are intelligent for one thing. They "think" on their own. Dream beings don't have their own mind, they are a creation of your mind.

Another way it's made clear to me is the eyes. Their eyes are always very "alive." In a creepy sort of way. There is an intelligence in them.

They are always super focused in on me, with the attention of a laser beam. Which they would have to be, in order to have willed themselves into my dream in the first place.

Usually they are there for a reason. Like they want to know something, or want to tell me something, and they can't stop thinking of me.

Dream creatures aren't goal oriented like that.

I think if you have to ask, it's probably a dream. A living soul is just so unmistakable.

You can catch them by opening up your astral eyes, and seeing their "thought orb" hovering over your bed.

I see some of my friends so often I can recognize their orb on sight.

Maybe that's the solution: When in a dream and wondering if you have an intruder, just open your eyes, and see if there's an orb hovering over you.