What are your thoughts about how different substances affects your ability to induce AP/ alter AP experience? Or if any would help to AP or what would completely prevent an AP?
From what iv read online most people say that it's better to AP clear minded, and that substances 'muddies' your aura, but some people say otherwise. Just preference I presume, but I want to hear your thoughts on this.
Thanks.
I know the search results usually suck but did you even try on this? :-)
Come on, one time, try it.
Yes, there are 120 topics in the archives where this question is asked, maybe twice that even.
Short answer... it depends very much on the substance in question. People tend to lump them all into one giant category called "drugs" and want a blanket answer for all of them. Would you do this with other nouns? For instance, would you ask if "animals" are dangerous? Depends very much on the animal, and in what circumstances and context.
You don't need them to project. A small number of herbs may assist slightly, but none of them is the magic bullet. Anything like alcohol or other depressants will generally work against you, because you are seeking an alert frame of mind, and those substances run counter to that goal. Some of the hallucinogens get you to a similar place as a projection (albeit with far less control), but their safe use is another topic completely.
Aha yes. I have tried the search, it's usually far from what I'm looking for.
Have you ever tried to have a drink or two then project? Does it make it harder or easier to AP? How is it different from a sober AP? More/less vivid? More/less control?
I'm just curious, i would try it myself but I have yet to induce an AP :oops:
I find the best drink to aid you is water throughout the day. Then nothing to eat or drink for a couple of hours before.
Anything else and you're wearing reality blinkers.
Look at shrooms. You don't even need sleep, your reality is messed up.
Unreal, false and forced attempts will only give you a bad interpretation of the real realities.
You may get messy pants if its a real scarey experience.
:lol:
Stay on course,
Don't use force.
Ta-da..
That line wasn't expected. :-D
I think it could help you ap but what is the point in doing it. When I ap I want to have good quality ap experiences. I am not interested in aping a lot and having rubbish experiences. I would rather have less ap experiences that are really worthwhile. I want to be aware and have a really good time. I want to be in control. If you take substances it would likely make your mind muddled. You would more likely to imagine things that are not real and end up in a dream.
So you wouldn't just try it out of curiosity? I wouldn't rely on such things to help me AP, I was just curious to see, in the experienced APers mind, what differed if one was to have a drink/puff before an AP.
From some one that has been trough a single intense Astral and done [A]yahuasca(one of the strongest Psychedelics out there)I would have to say there are both in completely different levels. It literally is a whole entire life time of meditation condense into 4-8hours and could only be done by a strong and determined mind. My verdict is that I feel as if a sober mind definitely has more control while out of body, but don't get me wrong under [A]yahuasca I was completely ripped out of my body and shown what being a soul was all about. As I always say, these tools should never be abuse or disrespected. These are teachers and guides and shouldn't be used for daily or even monthly use...
I believe that some people can have an "eye opening" experience from certain drugs that make them aware of the wider reality but it would be far from positive if the person continues to rely on them for the experience.
There are certain herbs and supplements, which are just euphemisms for the word drug, that many people have reported to be extremely helpful.
I do not know the name of any of them offhand but a simple search on and offsite should reveal many of them.
Ayahausca is in a category that I put in there with peyote and a few other hallucinogens that have been very important to the religious practices of certain indigenous tribes around the world. I think the weirdest one that I have heard about is a tribe in the Amazon that lick the backs of a certain tree frog and get an intense trip. I would never demean these practices as I understand the importance of the role that these drugs have in their cultures. Of course, they are always taken under the supervision of a shaman or a medicine man.
Ayahausca is actually becoming a big business for some tribes that cater to the loco gringos that want to have a trip of a lifetime. As far as I know, there have been a few reported deaths but these were all due to extreme dehydration that the constant puking caused and represented a very low risk statistically speaking.
It's on my bucket list. I think I can handle the journey very well as I have been having frequent OOBE for over 13 years now but I understand that the difference is still immense. I am only referring to the mental aspect as far as me being able to handle it and not the physical. I'm sure I would be a puker.
Everyone must make their own decisions but I fair comfortable in saying that drug use for any reason is discouraged as a general policy of the pulse but it is not looked down on.
Hello !
Have any of you heard about Terrence McKenna ?
This man (who died in 2000) is an ethnobotanist and advocate of the psychedelic experience. He argues loads of points on why the psychedelic experience (using entheogenes only such as DMT, shrooms, mescaline, salvia,..) could help our society.
He also thinks that the reality created by the psychedelic experience could in fact be part the "wider reality", and not just a "sens illusion".
He also argues that DMT can helps entering an alternate reality, but keeping all the cognitive capacity intact at the same time.
I've never tried DMT, i'd like to though.
Anyway, would it be that impossible that entheogenes could actually help us access states of consciousness enabling us to access the wider reality ?
Fun fact: he didn't believe in out of body experiences, it was to weird of a thing for him to rap his head around :D
If you don't know him or listened to what he has to say i think you should. He's really interesting to listen to !
Best audio "The tree of Knowledge" is a 10H workshop, which pretty much sums up the core of his work.
ENJOY ! :D
So any use of substances would impede the validity of the experience, compared to the sober mind? Someone who's an experienced APer, has a couple drinks/puffs, then successful projects. What's different between the sober AP (duration, recall, control...ect) compared to the AP accompanied by substances? Not saying get right blasted, just enough to feel the effects on the mind. What differs between the two?
I'm not talking about totally mind altering drugs, just the more common recreational ones.
Without them your conciousness is connected to your awareness.
Using them this connection becomes detached and things can turn wierd, thats if you can remember them.
Weed shortens your REM cycles. I can say I've had a good recall of vivid dreams, even if I smoked the night before, but only the, vivid dreams, your awareness won't be sufficiently aware in order to become lucid and even harder to fully project.
Now this is just based on my experience, I've had many dreams I can recall them even having had some the nigh before, but very few lucid dream (and I've never had this after smoked) , and none a single full astral projection or phasing attempt.
Even I'm considering to end it for a time and see if I can progress.
I won't talk about alcohol, I just consider it a waste of time. It won't help not even a little bit in my opinion.
Hope this answers your question.
Quote from: HindSight on August 29, 2013, 16:28:20
So any use of substances would impede the validity of the experience, compared to the sober mind? Someone who's an experienced APer, has a couple drinks/puffs, then successful projects. What's different between the sober AP (duration, recall, control...ect) compared to the AP accompanied by substances? Not saying get right blasted, just enough to feel the effects on the mind. What differs between the two?
I'm not talking about totally mind altering drugs, just the more common recreational ones.
Regarding your question, what a dream is a dose of DMT(Dimethyltrytamine) in your brain produce by your pineal gland. When any of us have an AP we produce more DMT then normally produce by your brain. Cannabis or Alcohol or any lower level drugs would enhance your effect. But not in a natural way, you will be more disorientated and unfocused. You might go in seeing the profound effects that any of these drugs do, you will most likely be shown that they are not required. You will be going to a place that the truth is absolute. I say try it and see how you feel, every body is diffrent, what works for some might not work for others. As far the validity, your the only one responsible to validate your reality, so in a way what ever you experince would have a purpose to you.
Personally, I would discount the validity of any drug induced OOBE that I have but that's just my own standard.
My opinion is that hallucinogens just dim or turn off the part of our brain that "grounds" us in this physical reality. What that means is that I believe that drugs are not actually producing hallucinations so much as they are just allowing you to experience two realities at once which can scare the crap out of many or just confuse the heck out of most.
A great OOBE is when you have your complete awareness and have the ability to know what is happening as well as the control to end it when needed. Drugs put you in for the long ride and deny the user full control as well as ending the experience until the effects wear off.
If you're an adult, then I say do what you please. If your a youngster, then I must ask what the heck are you thinking. :-)
Aaah ok so even to the experienced projecter, the use of any kind of drugs would not make the AP more enjoyable?
Anything that takes the concious 'you' away from your awareness of what you're experiencing is a no brainer.
We would all be on crystal meth legally if it worked to a great advantage.
The facts are in this physical reality.
Drink driving, no pot head wins formula 1 races... The list is endless.
On other threads some can't drink coffee...
See where this is going.
The shamanic rituals are NOT included in the above.
Quote from: Astralzombie on August 29, 2013, 01:26:02
I know the search results usually suck but did you even try on this? :-)
Come on, one time, try it.
The best search results happen when you do it the second time.
Quote from: CFTraveler on August 30, 2013, 12:06:06
The best search results happen when you do it the second time.
I was just teasing with a dash or seriousness thrown in there for good measure.
Anyhoo, things change, members come and go so there's nothing wrong with asking the same old question if you're interested in what the
current members think and not the junior high kids that ruled this forum 8-9 years ago.
Personally, I would delete all those old threads that were talking about dragon ball z silliness. Utter nonsense. :-D
If there's any kind of spam in 'em, say bye bye. :evil:
QuoteAnyhoo, things change, members come and go so there's nothing wrong with asking the same old question if you're interested in what the current members think and not the junior high kids that ruled this forum 8-9 years ago.
Personally, I would delete all those old threads that were talking about dragon ball z silliness. Utter nonsense. grin
Lol you get frustrated reading it? I was
here for all of that, haha.
I remember there was a poster named "KiBeginnersNightmare" or something very close to that, who would post every week looking for ways to shoot energy balls so he could conquer his enemies...
in the physical world, haha. And then next week we would get the update about exactly how big the energy balls he was tossing were just then, or that he was now interested in shooting balls while levitating.
Quotei would like to know if any body has any moves they could teach me . if so u teach me ur move and ill teach u mine
That is a gem circa 2003 or so.
My point was a little different, not really about the 'search' feature.
I looked at the thread a little differently than y'all, maybe because I've seen these types of threads so many times, and they all go the same way.
Well, i think i have a little info on this topic. This morning i had my first OOBE. But before i layed down to go to bed at 12pm, i smoked a bowl of marijuana. So, it doesnt keep you from projecting, but note, in this period, i realise i had floated out of my body so i turned around to see if i was there, and there where afew items in my room were not in the room i was seeing,including my body! Yet i could see the vhs tapes that are under my bed and afew other things that are under it... Maybe it "Muddied" My vision? Maybe not. But just my two cents. :D
Quote from: TwixxDreams on August 31, 2013, 01:51:50
Well, i think i have a little info on this topic. This morning i had my first OOBE. But before i layed down to go to bed at 12pm, i smoked a bowl of marijuana. So, it doesnt keep you from projecting, but note, in this period, i realise i had floated out of my body so i turned around to see if i was there, and there where afew items in my room were not in the room i was seeing,including my body! Yet i could see the vhs tapes that are under my bed and afew other things that are under it... Maybe it "Muddied" My vision? Maybe not. But just my two cents. :D
And, if you didn't write it down, would you remember it a week from now?
When I used to smoke weed... I couldn't remember yesterday ahah
Quote from: CFTraveler on August 31, 2013, 13:49:29
And, if you didn't write it down, would you remember it a week from now?
Yes, i honestly would, i still remeber when my cousin visited me in a dream and said " i learned alot after i made it to the other side" 2 months after he died. I remeber it as if it actually happend, yesterday. I woke up after he told me this in the blink of an eye, crying and feeling this joy that i had never felt in my life. This was 2 years ago last month.
melatonin. Kid friendly. Its a vitamin it extends the length of your rem sleep. look it up. Also Try hypnosis. and dream recall you could be waking up in your dreams all the time. Which is ap right so ... what is the point if you wake up and brush off all of those memories without remembering the whole experience. The more you focus on remembering the better.
Just make sure it's synthetic melatonin. You don't want something that came out of a cow's brain. :wink:
melatonin comes from cow brains??
Melatonin is made in the brain. So it's either synthesized by humans or extracted from animal brains. Idk if they use other animals' brains, but when I did the research the first time it was extracted from cow brains. Hence my warning.
If you want to get something that is natural and comes from plants, try 5-HTP - It's tryptophan, a precursor to melatonin. It doesn't 'bring you down' because your body has to turn it into melatonin, but it will help you stay asleep.
It does muddy your aura.. it's resin.. it makes your aura resiny dont smoke that excrement. i mean.. ive smoked it a couple times but just dont smoke it it's not very respectable if you claim to be spiritualist and it just aint no good. I from experienced that marijuana amkes by bioelectrical fluids to hypersensitive and i get all nervose around people. you're better off without it
Weed does the same to me, always makes me akward. Self conscious. But sometimes it does the opposite. All in the state of mind I suppose
I've gone some distance in this art without any supplements at all. Clear head and water.
Then everything falls into place.
You don't paint a masterpiece on a filthy canvas do you?
Quote from: Szaxx on September 21, 2013, 01:58:29
I've gone some distance in this art without any supplements at all. Clear head and water.
Then everything falls into place.
You don't paint a masterpiece on a filthy canvas do you?
I tend to agree that all natural is the way to go, based on compared experiences. Two things I'm curious about Szaxx and I ain't lookin to provoke you. OK? #1- How does one decide or really KNOW, without comparing? And -B- Have you finished YOUR masterpiece, or feel there's some distance left??
Life is far too short to finish anything, as soon as you think the canvas is getting short on space it twists and is a couple of A's larger. The more you do the larger it gets.
Im sure you've noticed this one too.
I've had a sample of chemicals donated without permission and hated the effects. Although a similarity existed it was dirty in essence. No real control and what seemed like hypnagogic imagery flashing itself as a reality. It didn't compare to the real thing at all.
Other home brewed extracts too, the one that makes everything colourful was pleasantly surprising. The after effects were not. It's a learning we all experiment with. In the interests of science, naturally. :wink:
In my whole life, I've tried Mugwort and Salvia.
Once, on Doctor's Orders when I was a kid, I had to take Penicillin pills when I was a kid. When I finished the prescription, I had very strange dreams for days afterward.
Mugwort, I have never tried before doing a conscious OOBE. But then the dreams later were killer!
but now, I don't do anything like that most times. only once a month if that.
Salvia, in my opinion, is the worst mind altering drug ever. It's like a forced dream, good or bad, with no escape route ad you don't even know it's happening untill it's over. Then memories come back as if you were trying to remember a dream you just had.
I really disliked it, alot.
What made it crappy for me, the Salvia is that I didn't even have smoking gear good enough to actually smoke it. I had to rely on the "under the tongue" method. As a result, what trips it was supposed to give you was really limited.
Would I go back to it if I could get more? Probably not. I have better, easier dreams with Mugwort.
I personally tried Salvia Divinorum after hearing some people speak of how great their experiences on it were, though personally I'm not really into typical 'drugs'. I tried it under the tongue, tried smoking it, even tried different doses of the stuff. The best that Salvia did for me was a mild sense of relaxation, like after a decent meditation, and a vague suggestion of a visual pattern after one use. It did not induce an OOBE, nor did I have any dreams that were more bizarre than usual.
I also tried an herb called Calea Zacetechichi, which is said to be used by certain natives in Mexico to assist in lucid dreaming. I've also tried that on numerous occasions, both smoked and as a tea. It gave me no results other than the usual.
Maybe substances don't affect me very much, but I've never felt much draw to alcohol, tobacco or marijuana either.
I read on some other forum that someone tried Mugwort with a 3 times addition. They did mugwort cig, then a Pot joint, then drank Mugwort tea.
I slightly modified this for me by leaving out Pot (I don't smoke it and never will) and instead smoking another Mugwort cig before the tea. I went to sleep by accident. Something with Mugwort makes me drowsy as Hell. I had thing long but boring dream based on the TV show Longmire. By boring, I meant it was just sitting around in the Red Pony and chatting people up. Ended up with the owner all but telling me to get lost because he thought I was drunk as a skunk! I guess I projected into the dream, as it was too realistic and the colors were normal and everything.
So I guess the 3 pack was a bust.... :|
Never tryed mugwort, I might give it a try. Iv tryed the calea (aka dream herb) by smoking and tea. i got slightly more vivid, more easily to remember dreams. But i found it hard to fall asleep. It's almost makes you drowsy but keeps your mind awake. Well... It did for me. It's propbably different for everyone.
How is is Calea in taste? I only ask because Mugwort has a bitter-ish taste to it when it is smoked. Even thought I used it before, the taste is kind of hard to get used to. But since I've smoked that, regular Tobacco tastes like bland cardboard to me.
BTW I've also taken Mugwort tea to treat a swollen Dental abscess. The only time it didn't work was when my infection was too big for the Mugwort to work.
it was awhile ago, I'm guessing it tasted 'woodish' with a hint of incense. i actually have no idea its been long but that's what i can remember. it came in a powdered from and turned rock hard when smoked. it was bitter in tea, but i added honey and some actual tea so it wast bad. it has a very subtle affect. when i closed my eyes it felt like they were wide open, even though thier closed.
Short answer in my experiences i accidently get close projecting with both substances with out trying but it happens during mid sleep so i wake up feeling close to out of body then i am too tired and go back to sleep but it probably does make it easier to reach the state.... I used to smoke weed regularly i have grown out of it the past 6 months tbh hope it helps (:
Would it be Calea Zacatechichi? I am curious now about it and want to try it. I am trying to search up on Ebay, as I know Ebay carries many herbs and stuff, but don't want to get the wrong thing when I finally order.
raditus, last time i got my herds i bought it on-line on some site call the botanical spirit shop, just google it. there's lots of on-line stores that would sell herbs.
Since weed can increase your focus to laser beam levels it may help with astral projection.
but this is a double edged sword as it may also increase your fears and paranoia.
as for alcohol in my experiences it's a bad idea overall.
your body is processing it turning it into sugar leaving little room for real relaxation.
you can wake up multiple times through the night with it but not in the way that is good for AP.
i'd say if you were to try projecting with one of the two go with weed.
Quote from: HindSight on September 27, 2013, 22:12:27
raditus, last time i got my herds i bought it on-line on some site call the botanical spirit shop, just google it. there's lots of on-line stores that would sell herbs.
Yeah, thanks. I'll go with the herbs shops.