Greetings everyone.
I'm very happy to have joined this forum and I respect you people right off the bat, just for partially having the same interests as myself. I hope this respect will grow as/if I get to know you. I know it will.
Anyway, I have a question regarding one of my weirder experiences. I've never actually had a controlled OBE (but I'm learning and working on it), but this one time, three years ago when I was 16, I smoked weed. The stuff wasn't very potent, I didn't smoke alot of it and I had this very weird experience. I sat down on the bed and I don't remember what happened but I think I went OoB. I didn't know about anything like that then. However it was very short, but horrible and it scared the hell out of me. It felt like I was in a very dark place, but not the kind of darkness that is present when I have my eyes closed. I don't know how to characterize it but it was like three-dimensional blackness, or that's how it seemed to me. And I was hearing alot of horrible masculine and feminine (and some inhuman) voices that yelled, mocked me and laughed at me. I didn't understand what they were saying, but I knew somehow that they were laughing at me and I felt (in those brief few seconds) dispair and fear as I have never felt in my life. I can't explain it accurately, but I had very strong feelings and sensations and they were all extremely negative. It was like I was experiencing a mixture of every type of negative emotion known to man and no positive one. It was horrible and I was fighting to snap out of it. When I woke up I was lying in bed and I was really freaked out; one of the most unpleasant and puzzling experiences of my life.
Anyway, what I'm asking is, could the drug somehow have altered my consciousness and made me project to lower planes? 'Cause I'm sure I encountered some really negative entities in my little trip. And if this is the case, is it a typical one? Are drugs not recommended, although at first judgement one is inclined to say they can be helpful while projecting?
Thank you and I'm looking forward for answers and opinions.
I'm not too experienced either but i've had 3d blackness. thats not OBE...thats a trance state. You were probably in a trance state and the weed messed with your subconscious insecurites or paranoia.
QuoteAre drugs not recommended, although at first judgement one is inclined to say they can be helpful while projecting?
Its a hard question to answer really, there are so many unknowns when it comes to drug use. Personally id say the natural approach is better, anything you may become reliant on (not just addicted, but rely on to OBE) is a bad idea in my opinion. CD's and tapes are usually fine because they get you to a relaxed state but your in control, drugs take some control away from you... Mushrooms for instance last aslong as they last, you may not be able to break out of a bad experience until the affects wear off hours later.
Although you may need to put in extra work, in the long run training your mind and gaining more control over your abilities is better then a one off uncontrollable experience. Another thing about drugs is usually the more you take the more you need, so its not exactly a reliable method.
Hope this helps.
>RooJ
To be honest with you I just had a horrible trip last night. Finally I've realized what a waste of time drugs are. Theyre really not worth the damage they do to your body. If you want to find the answers to life's toughest questions, I suggest you take the time to do it on your own - without the props (drugs). A little meditation a day goes a long way. (heh that rhymed)
It's much more satisfying, at least to me, when I have a "meaningful experience" completely sober vs. having the aid of drugs at my side. A year ago I was stupid enough to think that what I was doing would help me on my "spiritual quest". What a load of crap!! As far as drugs being helpful to projecting, I think that's just ridiculous. Sure, maybe they give you a little nudge here and there but in the end THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS.
Well. Theres my two cents. Take care.
Werebull,
Drugs are a part of people religious beliefs, inducing spirits, shifting their consciousness to obtain different levels within and beyound. The truth to matter and how you slice it is that drugs have profound effects on oneself mentally and physically.
I couldn't imagine taking a hit of LSD and trying to consciously astral project, focus and raise the energy to reach higher levels of consciousness. When you project, it takes ALL your heart, energies, concentration and skill to reach it naturally. The reward is beautiful when you can do it w/o the aid of a drug.
I've been out thousands of times and drugs I never had to induge in to project.
Tvos
Ok, thanks for the replies. So I understand that drugs sort of handicap you in a way when it comes to projecting. But what do you think that experience of mine really was? Was it a normal drug induced trance? 'Cause I haven't smoked pot ever since then and sometimes I'm afraid to try and project because of what I think might be out "there" (it's not that big of a "fear", but still that memory incommodates me). Thanks.
Drugs, as food, scents and so on alter your chakras' activity, and so, your being itself.
For sure you'll find all the correspondences between drugs and chakras in the Internet, but by heart I remember that weed blocks the archetypes Moon and the energy of Pisces. Both are related to the third eye, which rules the brain and the intellect.
Maybe that's why weed changes the way you understand life, giving you a sense of happiness due to the fact that worries are filtered.
I've found useful to practice energy bouncing (as explained in NEW) just inside my head, both from side to side and from upside to downside. This ends up in a feeling of flotation which leads to an OBE.
I'm at colleage so weed is fairly common place especially in my halls. I've had a few minor experiences when it comes to AP and SP but on non of them was I on a drug (except one time which I described in another post). I honestly don't think that psychoactive's help when it comes to AP'ing. I think that it hinders the process and can make you become less focused on the task at hand. I've tried many times to AP whilst on weed but I've never got very far. I think that it works as a distraction and you can get lossed in the feeling of the high. I think that the psychoactive feelings that are created make you feel more able and more adept at it more I think that they are at right angles to each other and it can make AP'ing near impossible fully.
Any thoughts on using this stuff?
http://www.magneurol.com/esp_pill_testimonial.html
Paint1,
Its very tempting but in all honesty you have the judge the facts, proof, and pro's to con's. Notice how they didn't list any negatives on the feedback of the pill.
I've always gone with my natural ability to project which is IMO is the best pill out there. Trying to induce a projection by consuming a drug, drinking is not the right path.
Tvos
You're probably right, but while I can phase at will I cannot project at will; so its tempting.
Paint1,
How long have you been trying to project? Weeks, Days, Months, Years? Like anything in life, its not free and takes incredible energy and hard work. I've been at projecting for the last 19yrs and still have my on/off days.
Tvos
QuoteI'm not too experienced either but i've had 3d blackness. thats not OBE...thats a trance state. You were probably in a trance state and the weed messed with your subconscious insecurites or paranoia
3d blackness is MOST definitely a projection. In fact it is a further projection than going into the "ASTRAL", but you have to be IN the blackness and not just seeing it behind your eyelids. This place is termed the Void, or FZ (in Frank model). Look at this post for more info on this wonderful place " Throw out our Hi-Fi" by Gandolf. I would post the link but I am having trouble finding it. The void is between the "astral" (subconscious) and the after life (f3).
Quote'Cause I'm sure I encountered some really negative entities in my little trip. And if this is the case, is it a typical one?
Ok. This is an easy one, so follow along. The "astral" is you projecting into one of your subconsciuos' minds ideas. This is like stepping in to a picture painted on a canvas. The picture is already painted but you can add and delete stuff. BTW, the Real time zone is you projecting into your subconscious minds idea of your physical surroundings, made more dense due to your belief structures. FZ, or the "void" ,on the other hand, is like projecting into a BLANK canvas. This is a really important place because of this. You can changel literally any belief structure you want there by creating a scene and living your change.
However, the first couple times you go to this place it feels alien, and under the influence you got scared. While you were scared your subconsciuos mind says "oh, you want to be scared, here i'll help", then it went about CREATING these voices and the various dramas. You have to go to the void, or the astral with a clear intent of something to accomplish (or at least thats what i do). Don't give yourself the chance to be scared.
Han
i've spent many of my past years in and out of drugs..
Someone earlier in the post suggested anything that takes you're control away is not good. i'd have to agree. I've spent years on drugs and it has taken me quite a while but i can guarantee you that life straight is much better than life with drugs...
You may be sensitive to cannabis, from reports many users who are sensitive hear voices on marijuana. The medical profession labels these people borderline schizophrenic. The Medical system believes many schizophrenics are triggered into their condition by using marijuana.
Hearing voices is a symptom... schizophrenia is the label of the medical profession... i don't believe much in the medical model. I'd like to think clairaudiance maybe one of your abilities but in this case negativity was taking advantage of it. I know i consider myself clairaudiant. Now straight, i have more understanding about why and what i hear and the ability to respond effectively. PS. i hear voices, but it is rare that i hear anything negative. but i live in a new reality filled with love and positivity.. a reflection of my internal self
you can't know truth when your mind is perceiving a falsened reality. even though sometimes you may think it is more real when you're there (on drugs) you can't be sure cause you can't know what influence the drug was having on your perception and if it is truly more or less of reality. the day after you are just left wondering.. plus your attention span decreases.. Trust me!! Not good!! you need good attention span to learn projection and meditation.
Truth is i've had some fun on drugs, but looking back there is not one thing that has made me wiser from using (other than IMO it is best not to use).
The day i chose not to use my life changed.
Spirit knows when you are sincere and when you are faking... the biggest change and one that i noticed basically overnight is that i became more helpful to others, more social, more community minded, and more concerned with the greater good than before. Before i was more self centered, fearful and selfish. To me a positive community mentality and the honest desire to help others is an indication of a more healthy mind and spirit..
Amazing what change a sincere decision can bring!
Best luck in your endeavors and may you always seek the underlying truth,
I do not recommended drugs for any type of personal growth, in the long run you'll probably end up going backwards!!
Love to you,
Dean
Well said, Dean
Quote from: DeanYou may be sensitive to cannabis, from reports many users who are sensitive hear voices on marijuana. The medical profession labels these people borderline schizophrenic. The Medical system believes many schizophrenics are triggered into their condition by using marijuana.
Hearing voices is a symptom... schizophrenia is the label of the medical profession... i don't believe much in the medical model.
I wouldn't put much stock into that "medical profession" take on this, either.
I've studied psychology, and medically speaking, you either have schizophrenia, and you're going to develop it later in life anyway (supposing you live long enough -- most people develop it pretty early in life though), or you don't have it, and never
will be able to have it. If it runs in your family, you have much better chances of having it, so in those regards it seems to be a genetic thing and not related to taking even insane amounts of drugs. You also have to match a whole list of criteria before being clinically diagnosed as schizophrenic, and you have to meet each and every criteria. Otherwise, you're suffering from something else, if you could call it suffering at all. LSD has been known to bring out dormant schizophrenia, and maybe other hallucinogens that cause hard trips, but I doubt that marijuana could do much unless you smoke an insane amount.
Quoteyou can't know truth when your mind is perceiving a falsened reality.
Maybe just me, but I don't believe in a fake reality. I say if you're experiencing something, it's real. :)
Werebull, sorry about my previous statements regarding schizophrenia. i'm posting in an attempt to clear up my previous error. Thanks no_leaf_clover for getting me to do this. Here i quote MOSBY"S Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing and Health Professionals (2006):
"The DSM-IV criteria for diagnosis of schizophrenia can be summarised as follows. Prior to becoming ill, a period of gradual withdrawal, impairment in social or role relationships, or distinct changes in a person's personality, have been present. This social dysfunction must have been present for a period of a least 6 months and have had a material effect on the person's ability to meet work, study, family, social or self-care roles and needs. For at least 1 month during this period the person must have presented active symptoms of psychosis. Specifically, two or more of the following symptoms need to have been present: delusions, hallucinations, disorganised speech, disorganised behaviour, or 'negative symptoms' Negative symptoms refer to features such as flat or blunted affect, reduced verbal communication or fluency, social withdrawal, and additional behaviour. These features are termed negative symptoms to imply that they refer to the absence of certain features, as opposed to positive symptoms (e.g. delusions and hallucinations), which refer to the presence of certain features...." and on it goes.
Sorry about my earlier suggestion of schizophrenic like symptoms because it is a much more complex and debilitating condition than i realised. but the basis of my post stands>
Drugs = not recommended
Thanks and sorry again,
Hope that this dispels any concerns,
Dean
I would like to clarify for the sakes of those who are experiencing the symptoms of Schizophrenia and who may come across the information presented in the last post and, as a result, think that they have a horrible and incurable neurodegenerative illness and become suicidal, that a person with clinical depression lasting more than a month can enter into a transient psychotic state resembling Schizophrenia that is completely reversible and doesn't indicate brain damage or loss of axons as Schizophrenia does.
In fact, there are quite a few illnesses and conditions which can resemble Schizophrenia, such as Brief Reactive Psychosis, which is a psychotic state which proceeds a very stressful event. This form of psychosis endures for only about a week and doesn't leave a person with a damaged brain at all. Severe forms of Bipolar Disorder can also resemble Schizophrenia at times. A severe fever can cause one to present with symptoms of Schizophrenia, and conditions such as hyper/hypothyroidism and severe hypoglycemia are also known to cause Schizophrenia-like symptoms.
I wanted to elucidate the matter that no one should read the foregoing post and become despondent and even suicidal, thinking himself possessed of the most wretched disease known to man. That would be a really horrible thing.
However, for those who do or may have Schizophrenia: there is a drug in development now by some of the major pharmaceutical companies that promises to cure, if not all, most of the neurodegenerative disorders (e.g. Parkinson's, schizophrenia, multiple sclerosis, Huntington's disease, Alzheimer's, etc...) So don't lose hope. :)
Sorry.. this is where communication via forums has a downside. It is incredibly hard to present all information pertinent to all possible interpretations in one post.
My most previous post was taken from The MOSBY"S Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing and Health Professionals (2006) as mentioned. i presented it here to show that the "criteria" to be "classed" schizophrenic is much more than delusions or hallucinations as i had previously mistakenly alluded to in my first post...
i did not mean for anyone who is presenting with symptoms of psychosis (due to factors other than schizophrenia) to become concerned that they had schizophrenia or that for someone diagnosed with schizophrenia that the condition is transient.
May healing soon come to those of you that may be suffering from schizophrenia, and may the strength that reside within you help you find a way to health and happiness,
Thank you, again my apologies... and best wishes,
Dean
Quote from: Hans SoloLook at this post for more info on this wonderful place " Throw out our Hi-Fi" by Gandolf. I would post the link but I am having trouble finding it. The void is between the "astral" (subconscious) and the after life (f3).
You spelt Gandalf's name wrong. That's probably why you couldn't find it. Here is the URL:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=158278&highlight=throw+hifi#158278
nearly everything is a chemical reaction, sight, taste e.c.t.
Introducing external chemicals to reach an enlightened state is still a black art.
I tunnel into lucidity very easily after a night on the booze, when technology has a greater resolution on the absorption of chemicals by the brain and monitoring the effects a clearer picture will appear.
People react in very different ways say to T.H.C and alot of work is being carried out around the globe on its potential.
It's not wise to be stoned in public but to have a few friends round a good chat smoke DVD video games is a good time.For a young teen whose brain/mind is still developing and the paranoia of say parents finding out he's "doing drugs" all adds up to hiding away by yourself thinking internally to much until a possibly doing something wrong police then doctor comes along and say he's got schizophrenia he's got a personality disorder he's mentally ill and lock you away and end up giving a concoction of all sort of drugs they don't fully understand, so all thing in moderation and always a good idea to have friends present.
Thats happen in your country ? lol
Really bad...
Sorry thevoiceofsilence, just saw your reply. Like you I have been at it for many years. I find as I get older it becomes more difficult as I have less & less energy.If I raise energy before bedtime, I 'm so wound up I have trouble sleeping. While two very different things,phasing is much easier.
I'm going to say that drugs can be used as an aide to a projection, but they do restrict the amount of control you have once out.
For example, a few days ago I had smoked and the morning after I had a lucid dream. Once I realized I was dreaming, I tried to fly away like I normally do. However, this time I couldn't and instead I ended up anchored to the ground, floating just inches up from it. Then I started to go in circles and no matter how much intent I threw at trying to fly, the most I achieved was about two feet off the ground.
Bummer !
Well, I'm extraordinarily new to all of this, but if you
do lose control, then it would
definitely not be a good choice to use drugs.
Quote from: http://www.astralpulse.com./outofbodyexperience.htmlIt is advisable however to avoid passing through reflective surfaces such as mirrors or windows. These can often cause an anomaly by projecting you into a mirror image of your Etheric surroundings, which are in fact in turn a mirror image of the physical world, and all sorts of possible anomalies, illusions and confusions can occur.
If you do not have control, it would increase the chances of something like this happening, would it not?
Also, I presume while having an OBE, it takes quite alot of concentration to keep you from thinking of horrible things happening. Drugs would make you lose this concentration probably as well, so who knows what could go wrong..
Although like I said I'm very new to all of this, I would feel much prouder of myself if I achieved it by natural means, rather than with drugs.
Actually, I'm the kind of person who could create a million ugly monsters and zombies and whatnot just by imagining them...
When I was out of body/lucid dreaming for the first time the other day, however, I didn't meet any monsters, as a matter of fact, I didn't even think about such things.
In my view, it's pretty much as if things I wanted to happen subconsciously happened, but things I wanted to see happen consciously just wouldn't... I would say it's probably pretty hard to make horrible things appear by mistake...
I'm really not worried about my fears or nightmares appearing -- if I express the willpower to see them, I can probably express the willpower not to!