False APing, Need help

[rdubya]

Hi All,

So I will try to keep this as short as possible. I THOUGHT I have been APing for almost half a year, but I think I have only been having false APs.

I lucid dream regularly, have a stimulated third eye, strong energy flow, and meditate, so I thought I was beyond the basics. However, I have become more aware of my APs, and I don't think I am APing at all.

My latest tactic which has been helping me remember very well is waking myself up from a lucid dream as soon as I realize it is a dream, then immediatly go back to sleeping but keeping my energy body moving. Often I can move my arms and legs, and many times have to "roll over" to get my energy head to detach from my physical head as I find that is the most difficult piece to remove from my body. I have been so aware during these experiences the last few weeks, that I think I really only go through the motions of leaving my body to end up finding myself in a Lucid Dream rather than the Astral Realm.

One example of how i know it is not AP is I have YET to wake up in my room after exiting my body( I moved about a year ago) I can even see myself sleeping on my OLD bed in my OLD apartment. Then things start to happen that only correlate to me and my past, and i find myself in a LD soon enough and not to the actual Astral Realm....

Any help would be greatly appreciated to stop these false AP's!

Thanks,
Ryan

[proyect_outzone]

The astral world is rarely identical with thje physical worlds. There are mostly differences. Sometimes small, like lacking televisions or new CD racks. Sometimes are bigger difgferences like complete new furniture. And sometimes is therte just another world. But these remain still APs.

[CFTraveler]

RW, you are not 'false AP'ing.
As p.o. said, the astral is not identical to the physical (in fact, it can be very different) and the closest you get to it is the etheric, aka RTZ.  To get to the RTZ you usually have to exit and will end up in a close-enough version of the physical-complete with reality fluctuations, due to the fact that you are not using your physical senses to perceive, and time and space work differently than in the physical.  If you phase you usually don't end up in the etheric at all, so that experience is even more removed than the physical.

[rdubya]

Thanks for the replies!

I think I get it. So any tips on getting to the RTZ?

[rdubya]

or some books for getting to the RTZ?

[CFTraveler]

Basically the trick for getting into the RTZ is to separate while conscious, and never to lose where you are.  No 'wake back to bed' or WILDing, and no projecting in the middle of the night.  It's better to try it in the early morning, so that you have less propensity to go to sleep.
The procedure would be, do some body relaxation method, then move on to mental relaxation, such as breathing meditation, then go to trance induction, energy body loosening, and when you think you're ready go for an exit attempt.  Not just 'letting yourself' go, but by externalizing your energy body.
Depending on your development, you should 'land' in the RTZ; but if you have an extensive history of going to the astral directly, it may be difficult to stay in the RTZ.

[Rudolph]

Rdubya, I think we need to focus on your real question.

Your observations so far are very good. As has been noted here, you are rolling out into the Real Time Zone but you consider it to be at best a very Lucid Dream since the discrepancies with the real physical world are huge.

I like the way you are thinking here.

So, are you asking, "How do I get beyond the RTZ and into the astral proper"?

If so I can tell you that I am working on the same thing. Back when I was doing an ancient Yoga practice nearly all my projections were into the Higher Astral or beyond -- but they were spontaneous and maybe happened once or twice a year. I am working on a happy medium.

I started reading these forums and reading AP books and I started getting intentional and more frequent OBEs. Then I forced myself to stay in my room, RTZ, and explore this realm... but now I am kinda stuck... getting into the astral proper is now a bit of a challenge for me.

I can go into more detail of how I am working on this if I can be sure this is what you are asking.

Rudy.

[rdubya]

thanks for the replies!

CFT - I will have to try that. I have read about it and attempted it once, but I became (what I thought least) was too awake and I didn't think I was going to be able to paralyze my body and exit.  i just kind of left that exit method behind not thinking much of it, but seems like it can be used to enter a close RTZ level.

Rudy- Def put your findings here if you wouldn't mind. language is such a barrier when trying to communicate all this--- between different terms + lacking the words completely!

I think the closest I ever came to RTZ was when I was in a completely black area. Very similar to your mind BEFORE hypnogia... However, this was AFTER I did the "roll" out technique and I then had spatial awareness of this darkness. It really was like having my eyes closed. When I tried opening them however, I only opened my physical eyes.

But please do share how you were able to enter the RTZ--- i feel this is much more practical at this point. If i want to enjoy astral like realms I can always lucid dream(unless trying to contact of course), but if I want to work on healing and remote viewing, astral RTZ would be best.

[Rudolph]

If you are rolling out into a bedroom scene of an old bedroom, and you felt the move in exiting the body...?? ... *that* is the RTZ. That is the etheric layer, non-physical, sub-astral that is usually ranging from similar to highly distorted perception of the actual physical reality.

If you have frequent Lucidity in the dream state just the "clarity now!" or "Awareness Now!" exclamations with a little hand rubbing, focused intent, etc. should get you to the RTZ pretty quickly. I combine those actions with a return to body proximity also but I am not so sure of the wisdom in that method any more. If it is close to the time when you normally wake up this can rapidly end the projection.

Healing and remote viewing are two TOTALLY different things and the RTZ is not all that great for either of those imho but healing, maybe, a little. Remote viewing maybe if you can manage a High Reality Interface and frame of reference... this is really tough for a LOT of people but not so hard for others.

[proyect_outzone]

Healing and remote viewing are two TOTALLY different things...

Supernatural abillities are not totally seperate things. Their mechanics have more similarities, than most people think. Like physical abilities are the supernatural things based on a few basic actions and perceptions. Knowing of this fact and the basic actions and perceptions opens the way to know immediately and without searching for a method, how to do a supernatural thing, which one has never done or known before.


Remote viwing works with energy shifting (own created term, means, some of the own energy is shifted to target location) and distance healing with energy shifting and energy transmission. So these both things can be even done simultanously (if one uses appropriate remote viewing methods).

but if I want to work on healing and remote viewing, astral RTZ would be best.

The results of supernaturtal Methods during OBEs differs from the results of these methods during awakeness. Especially the intensity of perceptions is much stronger than in the physical world. But it is also possible, that one has skills, which does not have a physical match. The astral world (including the rtz) is no place for training of skills. Theis world is only for trying, what happens there.

[CFTraveler]

thanks for the replies!

CFT - I will have to try that. I have read about it and attempted it once, but I became (what I thought least) was too awake and I didn't think I was going to be able to paralyze my body and exit.  i just kind of left that exit method behind not thinking much of it, but seems like it can be used to enter a close RTZ level.

Forget about paralyzing your body.  This is automatic and shouldn't be focused on- just keep your attention on your conscious mind and look for clues that you're ready for the exit.

I think the closest I ever came to RTZ was when I was in a completely black area.

This is known as the Void or 3D black.  It's an area 'in between' astral planes (focus levels) and you can wait for something to appear in which you go to, and end up in an astral plane.  This is the 'astral proper', and not the RTZ.  It's possible you can go to the RTZ from there but I never have.


ps.  If you mean self healing from the RTZ, I'd say that's possible (and very doable) but remote viewing is done from the body point of view, and not while separated.

[Rudolph]

Supernatural abillities are not totally seperate things. Their mechanics have more similarities, than most people think. Like physical abilities are the supernatural things based on a few basic actions and perceptions. Knowing of this fact and the basic actions and perceptions opens the way to know immediately and without searching for a method, how to do a supernatural thing, which one has never done or known before.

To me that is a little like saying cooking and martial arts are not totally separate things. They both require discipline and skilled use of tools...

yeah, okay....



I understand the concept of " how to do a supernatural thing, which one has never done or known before" since I have somehow tapped into unknown knowledge while in the astral but that was spontaneous and just came outta da blue.

When we are in physical bodies talking about things that are different... they really are different.

[rdubya]

Forget about paralyzing your body.  This is automatic and shouldn't be focused on- just keep your attention on your conscious mind and look for clues that you're ready for the exit.

This is known as the Void or 3D black.  It's an area 'in between' astral planes (focus levels) and you can wait for something to appear in which you go to, and end up in an astral plane.  This is the 'astral proper', and not the RTZ.  It's possible you can go to the RTZ from there but I never have.


ps.  If you mean self healing from the RTZ, I'd say that's possible (and very doable) but remote viewing is done from the body point of view, and not while separated.

Re RTZ: Is boredom often something that needs to be fought off with this? Often I feel like I am too awake to do this, but from what I am gathering that is when you can enter the RTZ?

Re Void: Any trick to entering Astral from here? I've only woken up fully after entering the void. I explained it to my friends as being a consciousness within your third eye. When you are resting and "seeing your mind" with your eyes closed you are still a part of it, but the VOID is when you literally go "inside" your mind. That make sense?

Re RV: I should not have loosely combined terms like that. I basically meant to see things in the RTZ. My friend and I currently have boxes with an item in it to test our RTZ ability, so ideally I would get to the RTZ that has the correct item.

[rdubya]

To me that is a little like saying cooking and martial arts are not totally separate things. They both require discipline and skilled use of tools...

yeah, okay....



I understand the concept of " how to do a supernatural thing, which one has never done or known before" since I have somehow tapped into unknown knowledge while in the astral but that was spontaneous and just came outta da blue.

When we are in physical bodies talking about things that are different... they really are different.

P.O., please feel free to correct me, but this is how i interpreted what you said.

Rudy, martial arts + cooking are actually not two separate things. Moving your physical body is all that is required from both. The only difference is the output which is controlled by one's goals and intentions to control their physical motions.

However, when you are teaching someone to use their physical body, teaching one how to cook can in fact help them train to learn to do martial arts when the first thing you must teach is how to MOVE.

[proyect_outzone]

P.O., please feel free to correct me, but this is how i interpreted what you said.

Rudy, martial arts + cooking are actually not two separate things. Moving your physical body is all that is required from both. The only difference is the output which is controlled by one's goals and intentions to control their physical motions.

However, when you are teaching someone to use their physical body, teaching one how to cook can in fact help them train to learn to do martial arts when the first thing you must teach is how to MOVE.

Thanks. Absolutely correct and exact what i wanted to say. Luckily i was to lazy to write it.

I understand the concept of " how to do a supernatural thing, which one has never done or known before" since I have somehow tapped into unknown knowledge while in the astral but that was spontaneous and just came outta da blue.

It comes not out of nothing and has nothing to do with being in astral or not. And there is no unknown knowledge involved.

Here a example for that, what i mean.

Person 1 learned to view distance things with closed eyes (simple remote viewing).

The person 1 wants now to learn telepatic contact to herafter. Surprisingly can this person 1 already receive images on telepathic way from the dead contacted person 2. Why? Because supernatural images can be used for several purposes. Person 1 needs only to learn to receive voices.

Later wants the living person 3 to send person 1 a telepathic voice. It is not a contact to hereafter, but person 1 can already hear the voice.

Several basic abilities can be used for several purposes (hearing voices, seeing images,...).

If one knows the basic abilities, is the "construction" of a method easy. And it is no fairy tale, it is my own experience.The most of my supernatural abilities, including my remote viewing methods and contact to hereafter, are result of such "self constructed methods" and these abilities work.

[Rudolph]

Rudy, martial arts + cooking are actually not two separate things.

My son's martial arts trophies are in the room downstairs.
Now if you ask, I suspect the family would choose me over him to cook dinner.

However, I know there are people out there who can't tell the difference between expertly prepared flan and over-boiled mush.

I know I am in the minority with this notion but I prefer clear definitions and delineations along meaningful boundaries. Why and how this wave of "its all the same" thinking swept over the general consensus consciousness out there is beyond me. But it truly is a sight to behold. (and the Forces that are tasked with stagnating the growth of Consciousness are to be recognized for the efficacy of their ways).

[rdubya]

My son's martial arts trophies are in the room downstairs.
Now if you ask, I suspect the family would choose me over him to cook dinner.

However, I know there are people out there who can't tell the difference between expertly prepared flan and over-boiled mush.

I know I am in the minority with this notion but I prefer clear definitions and delineations along meaningful boundaries. Why and how this wave of "its all the same" thinking swept over the general consensus consciousness out there is beyond me. But it truly is a sight to behold. (and the Forces that are tasked with stagnating the growth of Consciousness are to be recognized for the efficacy of their ways).

Rudy,

I would not advise having your sons martial arts suffice for making dinner!

What you are speaking of on a high level is "specialty". So I think we are all actually saying the same thing, we are just starting from different "limbs" of the tree.

Let me know if this makes sense or is way more confusing:

                                                              Cooking
                                         Moving Hands<
                    Moving Body <                       Martial Arts
Physical self <                      ...
                    ...


There are many different levels not included in this, but in order to reach a certain specialty you must first learn the previous steps. I also think it would look more like a spider web with layers than a tree with branches, I am just trying to portray the concept.

[rdubya]

Thanks. Absolutely correct and exact what i wanted to say. Luckily i was to lazy to write it.

It comes not out of nothing and has nothing to do with being in astral or not. And there is no unknown knowledge involved.

Here a example for that, what i mean.

Person 1 learned to view distance things with closed eyes (simple remote viewing).

The person 1 wants now to learn telepatic contact to herafter. Surprisingly can this person 1 already receive images on telepathic way from the dead contacted person 2. Why? Because supernatural images can be used for several purposes. Person 1 needs only to learn to receive voices.

Later wants the living person 3 to send person 1 a telepathic voice. It is not a contact to hereafter, but person 1 can already hear the voice.

Several basic abilities can be used for several purposes (hearing voices, seeing images,...).

If one knows the basic abilities, is the "construction" of a method easy. And it is no fairy tale, it is my own experience.The most of my supernatural abilities, including my remote viewing methods and contact to hereafter, are result of such "self constructed methods" and these abilities work.

This seems like a conundrum! If everything stems from something, then what did nothing stem from?

[Rudolph]

Let me know if this makes sense or is way more confusing:

This may be getting a little out of hand. Let's keep in mind how this started.

I was saying that in the practice of "healing" and "remote viewing", two very different things (I knew I shouldn't have used the word "totally"... just asking for trouble), the RTZ may not be such a good starting point.

I could be giving a martial arts demo out on the parking lot on a hot day and say, "It's so hot I could cook an egg on the pavement" and then I could crack an egg and point to it cooking and then go back to the nunchaku.
Maybe that works for some people.

Whatever floats yer boat.

[rdubya]

two birds one stone..sounds efficient!

[proyect_outzone]

It seems, vthat the discuccion about the difference of martial arts and coocing is trival for this topic and leads to running in circles.

We are talking about the disadvantages of strict borders. Borders where sometimes good, but not always.

In my example:

If i want to teach someone remoteviewing and telepathic image transmission, i could explain the method to perceive images 2 times. But i don`t need. The image percetion technique IS for both abillities the same. There is no similarity, it is nearly identical. So its a very good chance, that a good remoteviewer is also good in receiving telepathic images. But if, or if not, the knowledge of this fact saves at least 1 explantation and many learning time. These images can also be used for "supernatural searching for lost stuff", "supernatural diagnosis (of different things like illnesses, the state of the chakras,....)" and all other things, which require supernatural perception of images.

But one has to read a bit more about supernatural abilities than some forum posts to understand the advantages of borderless supernatural abilities completely. There belongs a lot of theoretical stuff to this topic.

[CFTraveler]

Re RTZ: Is boredom often something that needs to be fought off with this? Often I feel like I am too awake to do this, but from what I am gathering that is when you can enter the RTZ?

Forgive me, but I'm not sure what you are asking about.  If you mean a conscious projection, then maybe- the mind tends to chatter, but it's ok if you do some sort of routine to keep your mind aware without getting sucked into dreamland.  Breathing exercises, imagination exercises, relaxation exercises and others to get you in the mind awake 'body' asleep state.

Re Void: Any trick to entering Astral from here? I've only woken up fully after entering the void. I explained it to my friends as being a consciousness within your third eye. When you are resting and "seeing your mind" with your eyes closed you are still a part of it, but the VOID is when you literally go "inside" your mind. That make sense?

When you're in the void I'm talking about, there is no body consciousness- you are a point of view literally floating in nothingness.  When in that state, just thinking about going somewhere should get the ball rolling- you may see stars or doorways or something suddenly appear, and simply focusing your intent to go there will get you there.  Sometimes you will feel as if you're being 'sucked in' there, and sometimes you will simply 'appear' there- like teleportation.

Re RV: I should not have loosely combined terms like that. I basically meant to see things in the RTZ. My friend and I currently have boxes with an item in it to test our RTZ ability, so ideally I would get to the RTZ that has the correct item.

You can remote view someting or you can separate into the RTZ and take a look.  According to what I've read RVing is more accurate than an OBE to the object, especially if there is symbolic content in it (such as numbers or graphics)-the subconscious tries to project its own opinion on what you get, unless you're very fast getting there and coming back in.