The Christian Heaven and Hell don't exist. Sorry. Anything that looks like them is a mental creation of your own mind. Hell is always self made.
Hell is perhaps self-made, as it would have to cater your own personal horrors to be of any real value. However I do quite clearly remember reading about the lower lower astral realms and kingdoms in Astral Dynamics. Mr. Bruce gave no details and I'm very glad he didn't but by the air of his tone it seems quite hellish and served well enough and beyond to meet the demands of my dark side, of which we ALL have.
Negative, lol. Not at all what i was saying. i don't think for a second this was "the" Hell. It was just not like anything i'd heard of before, and being that i set out sorta looking for it and found this... i didn't and don't have another name for it. Thanks for reading, one way or the other, that post went on forever.
Careful Bloom, you might not find Hell, but you run across a character in your search that is powerful enough to wipe one up for you, taylor made to your specifications. If I remember correctly curious george got into alot of trouble when I was a kid. When that mouse trap slaps shut it dosn't always kill either, usually it takes someone big and strong to come by and get the proverbial monkey off your back, if you know what I mean. But that can take some-time. Until then the infection worsens. Careful what you ask for...you just might get it. As Mr. Bruce is so fond of saying "Like attracts like, in a real big way over there".
Dorian -
Mmmkay, is there any place i CAN get details? i suppose they may not be important, but i'm curious to see if anyone else experienced something like this.
"Curiousity killed the cat, t'was satisfaction brought her back."...?
Seriously, though, if that was the issue, i'd just go back, and i'm not doing that. i'm more interested in making sure of WHAT i experienced than interested in continuing to experience it.
For the record, i'm the man. Cable modem and i STILL doublepost.
And thanks lola, i'll try googling the name, see what i find.
Tell your friend, anyone who can "really" astrally project realises there is no such thing as a heaven or a hell, in singular terms that is... there are zillions of them.
Problem is a lot of these old-fashioned religious types love the kind of up, down; left, right; heaven, hell, opposite extreme kind of constructs. None of which apply within the non-physical. But that doesn't stop them trying of course. :)
I liked what you wrote about your experience. I've had loads of similar sounding ones so it made a lot of sense. With me, those kinds of experiences always threw-up loads more questions than they answered; to the extent where I couldn't wait for next morning to arrive so I could project again.
Best of luck on your future travels.
Yours,
Frank
fg
Interesting. i actually rather dislike experiences like that 'cause then i just never stop questioning myself - how much of it was real, was a dream, was ALL of it a dream and i'm just a nutbag... But very interesting indeed. That's the kinda stuff i'm looking for, so, before i let this little question fade completely, just like to ask again, any other astral explorers who have some info on something along this line, reply! or e-mail me, or something lol. i crave input! and i'm willing to share in much greater detail, too, i just didn't wanna spill my guts in the post.
and MJ-12, for the record, Deus Ex is awesome.
In my opinion there is NOTHING in the universe/world to fear(hell, demons, etc.) but our own ignorance. We are all limited by our intellect, on the choices we make and the things we do and think. In other words I seriously doubt hell exist but I do know that the freedom of choice exist and that no matter how bad you were in "this" life you will only be reborn again untill you(your conscious intellect/spirit/call it whatever you want) learn from your mistakes. I also know that almost every religion out there that says anything about fearing "god" is using fear to control you in some way to prevent you from learning the truth...it's all about the money..bibles have ripped pages... stories have been re-written...and so on....it's complicated...and it goes against the purpose of the universe.
quote:
found what for all appearances was a portal to hell; black pit, fire, demonic creatures coming and going, and all that fun stuff
Are you sure you haven't been playing too much of Doom 3? [:D]
Seriously, I think we create our own "hell" and our own "heaven" if you get my drift.
xd
Yeah, if you take the Christian view of Satan and all that comes with it, you'll see that whatever Satan and his demons etc (whatever you prefer to call it) are nothing but a bunch of crap and lies... all smoke and mirrors, designed to confuse you etc.
Sorry if I didn't make much sense there... LOL.
With regard to the Satan and hell of the Bible I agree that they unfortunately are used as implements of fear to keep people in line. That's part and parcel of the mythic viewpoint where much of the world's population is currently at.
However, if you regard the Biblical Satan as a literary personification of our resistence to spiritual truth, and hell as the spiritual state of souls who are furthest away from spiritual truth much of the Biblical message can be seen as a symbolic representation of the souls incarnation into flesh and subsequent journey back to its source.
In this light, Adam and Eve being thrown out of the Garden of Eden are the soul seperating from *God* and entering duality, having a knowledge of good and evil or the perception that there is something other than *God*. The death of Christ is the soul dying to the flesh, - i.e. overcoming the perception of duality and submitting itself again to the will of *God* (death of ego or seperate identity) and the resurrection is the new life of the soul - It has been perfected and is once again a manifestation of *God* rather than a seperate entity (thus Christ's assertion that "the Father and I are one").
Given that, I would suggest that when we die we are attracted to spiritual places and entities in the Astral or wherever that fit where we are at spiritually. And probably much of our surroundings at that point will be of our own manifesting. So some will manifest for themselves a Christian "heaven", others their version of hell. And depending on the person that hell could be a fiery cavern managed by the Prince of Darkness himself, or it could be a seeming eternity stuck in an elevator with Pauly Shore and Carrot Top.
do you think.....maybe theres a possibility that "demons" "devils" and all that is associated with hell are all rigid aramaic entitys with no agenda. their only agenda would to conform and imitate their equals;light beings. not to say they arent of light. just a greyer....slower vibration. real enought to see. and smart enough to be cunning. i have seen one of these entitys. a.k.a dopplegangers. it was one of my friends. most likely they only appear when you can see the veil between the mirrors. but they do exist. and they like to let you see what you want.
In my experience there are no such things as 'devils' or 'demons', at least not in the strict judeo/christian/islamic sense.
All so called 'demons' are humans in various states of degeneracy. However, just as you get some very scary humans here, you get some similarly scary humans in the lower astral, which when combined with your own fear projections, can be very scary indeed if you don't keep a lid on your own emotional state.
Douglas
This may not be the best first post, but, here we go.
i've been doing a lot of stuff without worrying too much about getting outside input, but this was superlatively bizarre, and i've come back from the whole experience feeling very, very different... So i wanna see what people might have to say about this one. Apologies in advance if this doesn't make any sense at all.
Has anyone had any experiences with entering what appears to be Hell? Not the dante's inferno, christian version, or the frequently seen lower astral weirdness, more like a sort of... sanctuary, to use the thing/person/entity i talked to's words...
There's always the issue of looking so hard i basically MADE it, but, i wasn't really looking for anything specific. A christian acquaintance of mine, who gets fed up with me easily, told me that if i could really astral project, i should be able to go to Hell and Heaven, and that i should go see Hell so that i'd understand where i'm going if i don't see the proverbial light.
So, of course, i had to try it.
After trying to "lower" myself as much as possible, i began wandering caverns that seemed to be made of steadily less and less solid material, eventually getting this feeling of entering something far and away from all the rest of the junk i'd come through. The next sensation is absolutely impossible to describe, but without saying it any other way, what it basically felt like was that everything around me believed in me. Not just was watching me, but understood that i was there, like i was in this permanent state of uncomfortable eye contact with every droplet, wave and photon of energy existing around me. After that, everything around me changed and i was standing in a field with a starless black sky that could have been just nothing overhead. And i wandered a multitude of places throughout this lower-lower astral for what seriously felt like a century or two, some i can remember, some i can't. i'd describe more of it but the fact is, a lot of it wasn't THAT interesting, and the post would be a mile long, and it's already too long. Oy. The part that throws me off, was at the end, i was distinctly told to come back when i was ready, that this could be my home if i wanted, and, also mildly disturbing, i was told to bring others. i should mention, i think, that i woke up and it was almost 27 hours after i had started this. i thought about it, talked about it with some friends and forgot about it for about two weeks, and then went astral again for the first time since then and noticed that i was still retaining some things from that experience, so, i'm worried again.
Anyone experienced anything like this, or maybe heard of it? the thing that worries me was how put together it all was. it doesn't sound very much like the typical hellish lower astral stuff i've read about, and not many of the beings that i came in contact with really had the flavor of out-to-scare-you unintelligent denizens of the lower astral.
Okies, i'll quit before my post gets any longer.